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Reply>Unfortunately for you, Wyrom, no matter what you do players are going to be jealous of other players. Putting limits on accounts isnt going to help with the jealousy either. Look at rtcf where limits were in place, people just brought more accounts! Maybe tell them they shouldnt try to fortune tell what use or knowledge other people have of the service or item.
this. There are always going to be selfish people who look for any loophole in the system.
>>this. There are always going to be selfish people who look for any loophole in the system.
Totally. And don't take this discussion as something that means weren't implementing anything either. I really just want to hear what people have to say on the topic.
~Wyrom, SGM
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Totally. And don't take this discussion as something that means weren't implementing anything either. I really just want to hear what people have to say on the topic.
~Wyrom, SGM
Premium
Platinum
Promotions
I was more than a casual gamer this weekend and I had plenty of problems. Even getting GALDS. I stood in front of plenty of spinners and bought a ticket for every raffle that I was interested in, didn't enter stuff just for the sake of winning, still entered a lot of raffles, since friday night. And if I wasn't in front of a mechant trying to get a spin or time of raffle drawing I was trying to win a top prize in the games or carousel or digging. I unfortunately did not understand the nature of the beast and the luck of the draw, but I do now.
On another gemstone related board. Someone had listed as part of their winnings, 20 GALDS 4 or 5 raffles t5 prizes out the wazoo. Of which I witnessed a good deal of his winnings because I was trying for the same things. Seeing that and coming away just about empty handed some really should understand the frustration of dropping half a c-note and have not just one day of bad luck, or two or even 3, but a whole freakin week. And to get harassed on top of it for posting my frustration monday night was just icing on a big turd cake.
I hate the word fairness, and maybe limiting would ruin someone elses fun, which by some posts it would. I really wish there was a REALLY BIG disclaimer on the ebon gate page. I may have had lower expectations and not dropped the cash on a hard lesson or may have bought a ticket anyway to experience a paid event and being free of what appears now to be my part some pretty outlandish expectations.
<I ask them if they're working with others to get to merchants fast, if they know about the GSGuide site and if they're keeping those maps/lists open in a browser for quick reference, the AIM blast chat that just about every merchant announcement has been pasted into, the PC threads and LNET.
While I'm in complete agreement that people that put in more work, effort, time, etc...should absolutely have more opportunity to win more, I also have a little bit of trouble with the fact that it's almost become mandatory to do all of these outside prep steps to have opportunities at services. I think the major issue is that there are times where it's simply that the competition can be overwhelming and it's either "your lucky fest" or "your unlucky fest" and are there steps that can be implemented to mitigate "luck" or balance luck with effort.
I honestly don't think there's an easy answer to this question. It seems foolish to punish and chastise those that devote more time and resources than others, but you still want to leave opportunities open for stragglers that paid their freight all the same, but maybe don't have the time and energy.
I think the past festivals have done A LOT to mitigate these issues. I think that by having simply a higher volume of merchants offering overlapping services, the competition "factor" has been cut down considerably. I also think that it's especially nice when merchants (near the end of a festival) offer to work for those that have only received one service or no services, just to try to ensure that everyone who "tries" is getting "something."
I think the jealousy and upset feelings come from major wins and raffles, but anyone that enters a festival "expecting" major wins is already entering with wrong expectations that are likely going to lead to disappointment. It's like saying that you expected to win the lottery and you're horrifyingly upset that someone else did.
I don't know what the answer is but I certainly like and appreciate this thread. It's nice to see a constructive debate on this topic instead of the usual troll/flame post of "Billy wins ALL THE LASER GUNS ALL THE TIME!" followed by a devolving expletive festival.
X
While I'm in complete agreement that people that put in more work, effort, time, etc...should absolutely have more opportunity to win more, I also have a little bit of trouble with the fact that it's almost become mandatory to do all of these outside prep steps to have opportunities at services. I think the major issue is that there are times where it's simply that the competition can be overwhelming and it's either "your lucky fest" or "your unlucky fest" and are there steps that can be implemented to mitigate "luck" or balance luck with effort.
I honestly don't think there's an easy answer to this question. It seems foolish to punish and chastise those that devote more time and resources than others, but you still want to leave opportunities open for stragglers that paid their freight all the same, but maybe don't have the time and energy.
I think the past festivals have done A LOT to mitigate these issues. I think that by having simply a higher volume of merchants offering overlapping services, the competition "factor" has been cut down considerably. I also think that it's especially nice when merchants (near the end of a festival) offer to work for those that have only received one service or no services, just to try to ensure that everyone who "tries" is getting "something."
I think the jealousy and upset feelings come from major wins and raffles, but anyone that enters a festival "expecting" major wins is already entering with wrong expectations that are likely going to lead to disappointment. It's like saying that you expected to win the lottery and you're horrifyingly upset that someone else did.
I don't know what the answer is but I certainly like and appreciate this thread. It's nice to see a constructive debate on this topic instead of the usual troll/flame post of "Billy wins ALL THE LASER GUNS ALL THE TIME!" followed by a devolving expletive festival.
X
>I also have a little bit of trouble with the fact that it's almost become mandatory to do all of these outside prep steps to have opportunities at services.
I finally went through the shop list today on GSGuide, it took me about 4.5 hours. EG is a huge fest and area, it does take those things to learn the ins and outs, but I think bringing back the merchant service indicator map will help a lot for those who are unwilling to use the out of game references to get services.
A few points from my experience this year at EG:
1) I had two accounts specifically so that I had better odds of winning the raffles that I truly wanted. I entered all those raffles with both characters, and handed the item off to the character for whom it was intended immediately after winning it (if necessary). I don't feel like I'm "cheating" the system to do that, but attunement would make it impossible. That being said, I think any Major Raffle should be attuned, with a caveat... You have to log in every 90 days, or your attuned item goes back in the hopper, just like a playershop. Maybe even make it 6 months or something. But that keeps an attuned item from vanishing into the abyss (and lets there be multiple raffles over time for the same awesome items).
2) I do like the idea of the points system. I, too, despite taking two accounts and spending a very healthy amount of time in-game, was boggled by some of the brag posts talking about their ~50 or so services. I think I ended up with around 15 across both accounts. A points system might re-distribute those a little better, and I'm all for that.
3) I frequently see merchants doing GALD work say things like "I'll do this batch, then if I have time I'll do another batch". That's when the whole room shrieks when a gown gets whipped out by the second person in line, because we're all anxiously hoping that there'll be another round. For instances like that, I'd love to see the GM say "I'm spinning for 30, and I'll work for an hour and a half. Anyone who doesn't get the work done here will be given a Sadie Scroll, and can get their work done through that system." That would decrease the frustration of people waiting around, only to find that the GM (totally understandably) ran out of time, so they waited for nothing.
4) I loved seeing the bow sighting raffle be limited to people with bow training. I loved seeing a number of the instrument and treat pouch raffles be profession-only. These are great things, and I'd like to see that pattern continue for certain services.
5) I love the catch-up services at the end of the event. If you haven't been able to be in-game, or have had horrid luck, meet at the gate where a couple GMs will burn through some GALD for you.
Limiting account wins is something I'm all for, especially if the number is set reasonably high. Increase the odds of everyone having a good time, and if you choose to gamble by not entering raffle X in hopes of winning raffle Y, then so be it. All of the games are a similar gamble. Put in your quarter, pull the handle and cross your toes.
-Deron
1) I had two accounts specifically so that I had better odds of winning the raffles that I truly wanted. I entered all those raffles with both characters, and handed the item off to the character for whom it was intended immediately after winning it (if necessary). I don't feel like I'm "cheating" the system to do that, but attunement would make it impossible. That being said, I think any Major Raffle should be attuned, with a caveat... You have to log in every 90 days, or your attuned item goes back in the hopper, just like a playershop. Maybe even make it 6 months or something. But that keeps an attuned item from vanishing into the abyss (and lets there be multiple raffles over time for the same awesome items).
2) I do like the idea of the points system. I, too, despite taking two accounts and spending a very healthy amount of time in-game, was boggled by some of the brag posts talking about their ~50 or so services. I think I ended up with around 15 across both accounts. A points system might re-distribute those a little better, and I'm all for that.
3) I frequently see merchants doing GALD work say things like "I'll do this batch, then if I have time I'll do another batch". That's when the whole room shrieks when a gown gets whipped out by the second person in line, because we're all anxiously hoping that there'll be another round. For instances like that, I'd love to see the GM say "I'm spinning for 30, and I'll work for an hour and a half. Anyone who doesn't get the work done here will be given a Sadie Scroll, and can get their work done through that system." That would decrease the frustration of people waiting around, only to find that the GM (totally understandably) ran out of time, so they waited for nothing.
4) I loved seeing the bow sighting raffle be limited to people with bow training. I loved seeing a number of the instrument and treat pouch raffles be profession-only. These are great things, and I'd like to see that pattern continue for certain services.
5) I love the catch-up services at the end of the event. If you haven't been able to be in-game, or have had horrid luck, meet at the gate where a couple GMs will burn through some GALD for you.
Limiting account wins is something I'm all for, especially if the number is set reasonably high. Increase the odds of everyone having a good time, and if you choose to gamble by not entering raffle X in hopes of winning raffle Y, then so be it. All of the games are a similar gamble. Put in your quarter, pull the handle and cross your toes.
-Deron
>You have to log in every 90 days, or your attuned item goes back in the hopper, just like a playershop. Maybe even make it 6 months or something. But that keeps an attuned item from vanishing into the abyss (and lets there be multiple raffles over time for the same awesome items).
A major problem with this is that there are a lot of military players and then Simu runs into problems its had before. Also, playershops haven't been repossessed in a long time.
Here are my .08 worth on the conversation:
- I very much like PeregrineFalcon’s point system. The fact of life here is that you can’t solely attribute quantity of services with effort. All-too-often I see it happen where folks spend hours in a merchant’s room attempting to get spun, only to have Fred walk through the door to get picked instead. And in many cases, Fred only just arrived because he’s on his sixth merchant in the last hour.
- Definitely separate alters from other GALD. Joola, Viola, etc. items, even regular items with a show, should fall into a different category than L/D, Just One Thing, etc., simply because of the time involved.
- I am very much in favor of account attunement, but not character attunement. Character attunement in most instances assures the item will become dead weight at some point in someone’s locker. It is also extremely frustrating to pay your money for an event and then find out too late that you brought the “wrong” character. Especially given I attend festivals (silly me, I know!) based more upon the appropriate-ness of the event for the character I bring than the mechanical advantages being offered.
- Not all raffle items should be attuned; but definitely profession/skill-based items, or any item of a majorly MAJOR orientation (think airship property).
- I understand the concern people have for attunement. Characters do (and should!) Change over time. What I would offer in response to that would be some kind of item recycle program, where players could turn in items which are account attuned and no longer used. Said item would then go back into the GM’s prize pool and could be re-distributed in whatever fashion they choose. If we are working in conjunction with the point system, players could receive a portion of the original points spent to their account. The only other thing I could think of would be some kind of ability to TRADE items of perhaps equal point value (let’s say airship = 5, Kroderine = 3, feed pouch = 1), but that sounds like a gargantuan headache to code.
I can’t even count how many raffle items this Ebon Gate went up on boards for sale within minutes (sometimes seconds) of being won. And needless to say none of them were being sold for less than millions (tens of in most cases). A huge bank of people throw themselves at every and any raffle they can solely for the opportunity to make a lot of money off them, which devastates the odds of someone who games casually to ever get them. Worse, many of those items are somehow customizable; when the choices are made by someone looking purely for profit it takes away the ability of the person who is actually going to use it to make it perfect for their character (IE: Drakeangel’s post about the Kroderine, even Zendrian’s companion treat pouches). If both of those items had been account-attuned, however, I suspect we would have seen FAR less tickets in the barrels.
- I very much like PeregrineFalcon’s point system. The fact of life here is that you can’t solely attribute quantity of services with effort. All-too-often I see it happen where folks spend hours in a merchant’s room attempting to get spun, only to have Fred walk through the door to get picked instead. And in many cases, Fred only just arrived because he’s on his sixth merchant in the last hour.
- Definitely separate alters from other GALD. Joola, Viola, etc. items, even regular items with a show, should fall into a different category than L/D, Just One Thing, etc., simply because of the time involved.
- I am very much in favor of account attunement, but not character attunement. Character attunement in most instances assures the item will become dead weight at some point in someone’s locker. It is also extremely frustrating to pay your money for an event and then find out too late that you brought the “wrong” character. Especially given I attend festivals (silly me, I know!) based more upon the appropriate-ness of the event for the character I bring than the mechanical advantages being offered.
- Not all raffle items should be attuned; but definitely profession/skill-based items, or any item of a majorly MAJOR orientation (think airship property).
- I understand the concern people have for attunement. Characters do (and should!) Change over time. What I would offer in response to that would be some kind of item recycle program, where players could turn in items which are account attuned and no longer used. Said item would then go back into the GM’s prize pool and could be re-distributed in whatever fashion they choose. If we are working in conjunction with the point system, players could receive a portion of the original points spent to their account. The only other thing I could think of would be some kind of ability to TRADE items of perhaps equal point value (let’s say airship = 5, Kroderine = 3, feed pouch = 1), but that sounds like a gargantuan headache to code.
I can’t even count how many raffle items this Ebon Gate went up on boards for sale within minutes (sometimes seconds) of being won. And needless to say none of them were being sold for less than millions (tens of in most cases). A huge bank of people throw themselves at every and any raffle they can solely for the opportunity to make a lot of money off them, which devastates the odds of someone who games casually to ever get them. Worse, many of those items are somehow customizable; when the choices are made by someone looking purely for profit it takes away the ability of the person who is actually going to use it to make it perfect for their character (IE: Drakeangel’s post about the Kroderine, even Zendrian’s companion treat pouches). If both of those items had been account-attuned, however, I suspect we would have seen FAR less tickets in the barrels.
>> 4) I loved seeing the bow sighting raffle be limited to people with bow training. I loved seeing a number of the instrument and treat pouch raffles be profession-only. These are great things, and I'd like to see that pattern continue for certain services.
I also really appreciate that some merchants restrict a portion of their raffles to characters of the appropriate profession or training as well and would like to see more of this in the future.
-- Robert
I also really appreciate that some merchants restrict a portion of their raffles to characters of the appropriate profession or training as well and would like to see more of this in the future.
-- Robert
EG is a HUGE festival really the largest GS has in terms of size. Obviously lots of people like this, personally I don't. The landscape has gotten too large for the player base and instead of having yet another are to explore why don't we focus on what people go to the festivals for. Merchants, Items, RP and games.
Personally I feel like RtCF was the perfect size for a festival, it was easy to navigate, people always knew where raffles and merchants were going to be and you didn't have to depend on being in the know, or having a network of friends. I am sure people will disagree with me and say they find enjoyment in the vastness of EG and maybe if I had a week straight to spend 12+ hours a day online I would love it to.
Heres the thing, and maybe I'm becoming part of a minority, but I now have the money to easily pay for a festival but lack the time to spend 100 hours there over a two week period.
A way to fix that would giving people a list of when raffles will pull that day, or an APPROX. time when the merchant will be around.
I'm not saying all of them and if some merchant just pop in a do work thats fine, the people who can spend a week straight in game will be rewarded for the time they are putting in.
I feel myself getting old and it sucks, I remember bring 20 years old playing this game and surviving an EG on cheetos and mountain dew, up till 4am getting a GALD done.
I will say this though I am in favor of profession only raffles, It annoys the heck out of me to play a main and see an item that would be perfect only to have someone else win it and stick it on an alt they haven't even rolled up yet.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
Personally I feel like RtCF was the perfect size for a festival, it was easy to navigate, people always knew where raffles and merchants were going to be and you didn't have to depend on being in the know, or having a network of friends. I am sure people will disagree with me and say they find enjoyment in the vastness of EG and maybe if I had a week straight to spend 12+ hours a day online I would love it to.
Heres the thing, and maybe I'm becoming part of a minority, but I now have the money to easily pay for a festival but lack the time to spend 100 hours there over a two week period.
A way to fix that would giving people a list of when raffles will pull that day, or an APPROX. time when the merchant will be around.
I'm not saying all of them and if some merchant just pop in a do work thats fine, the people who can spend a week straight in game will be rewarded for the time they are putting in.
I feel myself getting old and it sucks, I remember bring 20 years old playing this game and surviving an EG on cheetos and mountain dew, up till 4am getting a GALD done.
I will say this though I am in favor of profession only raffles, It annoys the heck out of me to play a main and see an item that would be perfect only to have someone else win it and stick it on an alt they haven't even rolled up yet.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
<Worse, many of those items are somehow customizable...(IE: Drakeangel’s post about the Kroderine, even Zendrian’s companion treat pouches). If both of those items had been account-attuned, however, I suspect we would have seen FAR less tickets in the barrels.
Any merchant who feels comfortable altering the treat pouches can do so. Zendrian was the only one doing it at EG because they're brand new, and mine. I get dibs on doing stuff first! :) They do have some restrictions (seen in the ANALYZE), but I did specifically put in the script that any merchant WHO FELT COMFORTABLE altering them, could.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Private Property Guru
Any merchant who feels comfortable altering the treat pouches can do so. Zendrian was the only one doing it at EG because they're brand new, and mine. I get dibs on doing stuff first! :) They do have some restrictions (seen in the ANALYZE), but I did specifically put in the script that any merchant WHO FELT COMFORTABLE altering them, could.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Private Property Guru
I just saw this and there was a lot to read, so I admittedly haven't read every post.
I do think leaving the distribution of services to random luck at an event where everyone paid to be there can lead to bad feelings. There are people who enter everything because they like to win, and they figure out what they won after it draws.
I'd like to see a sliding scale of luck implemented, meaning no one is ever excluded from winning, but your chances of winning drop the more you win.
Example:
Everyone starts with 10 'chances' in the pool. Get spun with the spinner, loose a chance. Now everyone has 10 and you have 9. Win a raffle, that goes down to 8, etc. You could even implement this with a point scale, so winning a glamor tattoo could be worth 3 chances and a GALD spin worth 1. A player could go down to 1 chance, but never below (so your saying there's a chance!).
I feel this still rewards the diligent festival goers who are on top of everything ready in that they are never locked out, but it helps those with bad luck or a specific service they really want to maximize their chances.
Matt/Vorks
I do think leaving the distribution of services to random luck at an event where everyone paid to be there can lead to bad feelings. There are people who enter everything because they like to win, and they figure out what they won after it draws.
I'd like to see a sliding scale of luck implemented, meaning no one is ever excluded from winning, but your chances of winning drop the more you win.
Example:
Everyone starts with 10 'chances' in the pool. Get spun with the spinner, loose a chance. Now everyone has 10 and you have 9. Win a raffle, that goes down to 8, etc. You could even implement this with a point scale, so winning a glamor tattoo could be worth 3 chances and a GALD spin worth 1. A player could go down to 1 chance, but never below (so your saying there's a chance!).
I feel this still rewards the diligent festival goers who are on top of everything ready in that they are never locked out, but it helps those with bad luck or a specific service they really want to maximize their chances.
Matt/Vorks
The problem with the point scale is it cant reasonably scale correctly. Who in their right mind would take 3 galds for a glamour tattoo? Or 3 galds instead of bow sighting? I sure wouldnt and no one else would either. I love galds but they're as common as mud if you're premium. Look at the calendar for events, enter the premium contest, pay attention to criers. I know, it takes a slight bit of effort but anyone(who is premie) can do it.
I guess part of me can see bigger items being limited, raffles, tier 5 prizes so one person doesnt get over the top lucky.. because those things arent readily available except at larger events. But even that is just part of life. Luck, I found a sephwir bow in a warcamp one day and the next I get a bunch of clear zircons and a crystal amulet. Its just how it goes.
I guess part of me can see bigger items being limited, raffles, tier 5 prizes so one person doesnt get over the top lucky.. because those things arent readily available except at larger events. But even that is just part of life. Luck, I found a sephwir bow in a warcamp one day and the next I get a bunch of clear zircons and a crystal amulet. Its just how it goes.
>What do you say to the people who claim to never get anything and try? Try harder? You're doing it wrong? lrn2merchant? What about people who always think playerX wins everything? And what about people who just show up to a merchant to win everything, but have no use or knowledge of what the service even is?
What I say is, if you don't find the festival worthwhile with no services, don't buy a ticket. EG is unlimited tickets. Services are limited. At the margin its no services per ticket.
My experience is that Felthrop's wagon is 50 times as efficient as EG at getting services to me. (2% of the time to get the same services) I can't imagine anything you could do by ways of limiting wins to bridge that gap. (Though you might make for a fairer distribution between those that get 5 and those that get hundreds and it might be worth doing for that reason, but the only limit that counts for those that get hardly any services at EG is a limit on tickets)
What I say is, if you don't find the festival worthwhile with no services, don't buy a ticket. EG is unlimited tickets. Services are limited. At the margin its no services per ticket.
My experience is that Felthrop's wagon is 50 times as efficient as EG at getting services to me. (2% of the time to get the same services) I can't imagine anything you could do by ways of limiting wins to bridge that gap. (Though you might make for a fairer distribution between those that get 5 and those that get hundreds and it might be worth doing for that reason, but the only limit that counts for those that get hardly any services at EG is a limit on tickets)
There's a big difference between win the lotto lucky of snagging a Sephwir Bow from the loot system and a 1 in 50 lucky for getting drawn for in a raffle. One can happen multiple times in a row without divine intervention, which is enough to make people feel bad about the $50 they spent on the event.
Don't take the point values I threw out too literally, a lot more thought would have to go into the values than the 30 seconds I put into it when posting. For example, you could start out with 100 chances, with glamour tattoos being worth 50 and GALD worth 1. Or you could take GALD out of it. Sure, there are always people who are going to value them differently, but in less you want to auction off every service ever, I'm not sure how you take personal value into account.
Don't take the point values I threw out too literally, a lot more thought would have to go into the values than the 30 seconds I put into it when posting. For example, you could start out with 100 chances, with glamour tattoos being worth 50 and GALD worth 1. Or you could take GALD out of it. Sure, there are always people who are going to value them differently, but in less you want to auction off every service ever, I'm not sure how you take personal value into account.
>There's a big difference between win the lotto lucky of snagging a Sephwir Bow from the loot system and a 1 in 50 lucky for getting drawn for in a raffle.
That's the thing though, with unlimited tickets its usually a less than 1% chance of winning the more coveted raffles. Even with your odds that's just 2% and if someone is going to feel bad with odds that low, buying a ticket wouldn't be very wise. In my opinion you go to ebon gate to shop, play games, maybe do a quest and hope you get some services. For your own sanity raffles should be the silly little daydream you wish for, oh wouldn't that be nice? If you're expecting to win raffles, you might as well save yourself $50 and stub your toe on a bedpost repeatedly for a more enjoyable time.
That's the thing though, with unlimited tickets its usually a less than 1% chance of winning the more coveted raffles. Even with your odds that's just 2% and if someone is going to feel bad with odds that low, buying a ticket wouldn't be very wise. In my opinion you go to ebon gate to shop, play games, maybe do a quest and hope you get some services. For your own sanity raffles should be the silly little daydream you wish for, oh wouldn't that be nice? If you're expecting to win raffles, you might as well save yourself $50 and stub your toe on a bedpost repeatedly for a more enjoyable time.
One other thought I had is the precedence set here.
As has been said on many occasions across the boards, people play GS for different reasons: some enjoy the thrill of invasions, some seek to immerse themselves in storylines, some powerhunt and some (like myself as a self confessed Barbie) enjoy the customisation of our characters through alterations/verbs/scripted items and actively seek those out.
Assuming the worst case scenario of limits being set on minor services such as GALD and unlocking, then are we to assume that limits will be brought in for these other situations. Sorry, Sir ILikeToKillStuff but you have killed your maximum number of invading trolls, it's time to leave some for others. Sorry, Mr ILikeToPlayTheBadGuy but you've reached your quota of RPAs this week, please step aside. You get my drift.
Extreme examples, I know, but it's food for thought.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
As has been said on many occasions across the boards, people play GS for different reasons: some enjoy the thrill of invasions, some seek to immerse themselves in storylines, some powerhunt and some (like myself as a self confessed Barbie) enjoy the customisation of our characters through alterations/verbs/scripted items and actively seek those out.
Assuming the worst case scenario of limits being set on minor services such as GALD and unlocking, then are we to assume that limits will be brought in for these other situations. Sorry, Sir ILikeToKillStuff but you have killed your maximum number of invading trolls, it's time to leave some for others. Sorry, Mr ILikeToPlayTheBadGuy but you've reached your quota of RPAs this week, please step aside. You get my drift.
Extreme examples, I know, but it's food for thought.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
Someone, mentioned what it is like to have horrible luck at an expensive paid event. I feel your pain, I've been there. I've attended a number of festivals and events over the years, and had great luck at some, horrible luck at others, and everything in between. I've been the clueless wanderer and not gotten much of anything despite going practically sleepless for a week, and I've gone in as prepared as possible armed with AIM chat sessions, maps and a detailed plan. With the exception of this RtCF in Shattered this year, I've never come away feeling like I was anywhere close to the folks taking home the big prizes and wins. Sometimes I've felt things weren't fair, and sometimes I've just plain felt sorry for myself for walking away with little or nothing to show for an event.
I wouldn't mind seeing limits, but I think they need to be handled well, or they will just make matters worse rather than better.
So here are some Thoughts:
Perhaps instead of just Major and Minor; break it up into 5 categories:
Major - bigtime services like enchanting and padding
Minor - GALD, feature alters, custom verbs, etc.
Unlimited - L&D, Specialty Niche services that only apply to a handful of characters such as converting old-style items to new-style, or any other service that can be handled by the dozens without taking up much time.
Raffle - self explanatory
Auction - Allow x number of auction wins so that one billionaire doesn't dominate all the items in an auction.
That way you could win a raffle and still get a major service (perhaps on your raffle win) and x number of minor services.
Problem with attuning is that I might really want that Runestaff of doom for my wizard, but I brought my warrior to the festival. Account attuning is much better than character attuning. Generally speaking I don't like attuning except in very rare cases like Pure Coraesine weapons and such. I think attuning ought to be as rare as they items they are on. Even then I'd very much like for them to be account attuned instead of character attuned. You never know when you might get the itch to make a new character and that runestaff of doom might just be the character defining item that you could build an entire story around. Just ask Krakii. :)
I'd like to add that I do not think the same limits should apply to Shattered or Plat for obvious reasons.
RtCF in Shattered was brilliant! The idea of signing up for the things you want took so much of the normal anxiety and frustration out of the event.
If you guys are allowed to give out 20 major services at an event, then put a signup sheet out for each service. Spin for each signup list. Then you don't have people scrambling around freaking out because they don't know where the entrance to some shop or other is when a merchant announces, or trying to stay up half the night worrying about whether the merchant they want most might show up during the 2 hours of sleep they can't help but get.
There is still the problem of how do you decide on what to sign up for. Do you forego a chance to win x because you want y more and so sign up only for that? Or do you sign up for everything hoping to win something, but then risk having one of the lesser desired prizes spun for first? Not sure how to resolve that, it was the challenge at RtCF, but despite that, the sign up idea worked brilliantly and took a great deal of pressure off of us, making for a very enjoyable festival for both us and the GMs involved. Just ask the GMs who have been to recent Shattered events, they really enjoyed their time and walked away impressed with how friendly and helpful people were to each other.
Do the same for the more sought after minor services as well.
A lot of good stuff has been said and repeated throughout this thread, so let me echo some things I think deserve repeating:
It's great to have merchants save some things in reserve for the later days of the festival so that those who have been "unluckly" and not gotten anything could still have a chance. I like that merchants often search out folks at near the end of festivals who haven't gotten anything to make sure they walk away with something even if it is only a GALD.
Spinner weighting sounds like a decent idea, people who've already gotten majors have less of a chance to be spun (but still a chance) than those who have not gotten anything.
I know it irks people to see items get won in raffles only to be put up for sale seconds later. However, I'd rather see them remain unrestricted and unattuned and end up for sale than see them get lockered permanently because of being attuned and for whatever reason the character no longer uses that item, or because the person has closed their account. So many incredible items are lost to the locker abyss already, I'd hate to see more and more good stuff leave the lands because of attunement. I don't like the idea of items going back into the hopper if left idle on a character for x amount of time because as many people can attest, folks walk away from Gemstone, for years at a time, but then come back and pick right up where they left off. I don't know if I'd come back if I knew my coolest stuff would be gone when I did. That said, I really hate to see some of the most legendary items in the game lost, so perhaps for really rare and legendary stuff it might not be a bad idea.
The point system idea is interesting, but it has problems too. Not everyone values things alike. There were things at RtCF that to me I would not have considered "Major", and there were "Minor" ones that I would have valued above many majors. I had been chasing weightless bags for a a couple years, and yet those were a minor win... I might have picked that over an enchanting slot had I been forced to choose.
Chivrest makes a valid point, some people play this game to chase merchants, whatever ends up happening or not happening should take that into consideration.
I used to love Prime, and festivals, and all the rest, (and still do) but after my kids were born I don't have the time that I used to. I had to do some major bargaining with my wife to get the time at RtCF that I got, and even that was far far less time than I used to spend at festivals 10 years ago before marriage and kids.
I know this has been a book to read, but one last thought. For paid events, especially for expensive ones, I really liked the guaranteed 1 Major for anyone at RtCF. I know you can't do that at every festival, but it would be nice if you could run one a year like that. Make the tickets expensive by all means to limit participation, but it would be a nice offering. At $75 dollars a ticket, if someone wants to bring in 4 accounts in order to get something taken from 4x to 8x, then more power to them.
I wouldn't mind seeing limits, but I think they need to be handled well, or they will just make matters worse rather than better.
So here are some Thoughts:
Perhaps instead of just Major and Minor; break it up into 5 categories:
Major - bigtime services like enchanting and padding
Minor - GALD, feature alters, custom verbs, etc.
Unlimited - L&D, Specialty Niche services that only apply to a handful of characters such as converting old-style items to new-style, or any other service that can be handled by the dozens without taking up much time.
Raffle - self explanatory
Auction - Allow x number of auction wins so that one billionaire doesn't dominate all the items in an auction.
That way you could win a raffle and still get a major service (perhaps on your raffle win) and x number of minor services.
Problem with attuning is that I might really want that Runestaff of doom for my wizard, but I brought my warrior to the festival. Account attuning is much better than character attuning. Generally speaking I don't like attuning except in very rare cases like Pure Coraesine weapons and such. I think attuning ought to be as rare as they items they are on. Even then I'd very much like for them to be account attuned instead of character attuned. You never know when you might get the itch to make a new character and that runestaff of doom might just be the character defining item that you could build an entire story around. Just ask Krakii. :)
I'd like to add that I do not think the same limits should apply to Shattered or Plat for obvious reasons.
RtCF in Shattered was brilliant! The idea of signing up for the things you want took so much of the normal anxiety and frustration out of the event.
If you guys are allowed to give out 20 major services at an event, then put a signup sheet out for each service. Spin for each signup list. Then you don't have people scrambling around freaking out because they don't know where the entrance to some shop or other is when a merchant announces, or trying to stay up half the night worrying about whether the merchant they want most might show up during the 2 hours of sleep they can't help but get.
There is still the problem of how do you decide on what to sign up for. Do you forego a chance to win x because you want y more and so sign up only for that? Or do you sign up for everything hoping to win something, but then risk having one of the lesser desired prizes spun for first? Not sure how to resolve that, it was the challenge at RtCF, but despite that, the sign up idea worked brilliantly and took a great deal of pressure off of us, making for a very enjoyable festival for both us and the GMs involved. Just ask the GMs who have been to recent Shattered events, they really enjoyed their time and walked away impressed with how friendly and helpful people were to each other.
Do the same for the more sought after minor services as well.
A lot of good stuff has been said and repeated throughout this thread, so let me echo some things I think deserve repeating:
It's great to have merchants save some things in reserve for the later days of the festival so that those who have been "unluckly" and not gotten anything could still have a chance. I like that merchants often search out folks at near the end of festivals who haven't gotten anything to make sure they walk away with something even if it is only a GALD.
Spinner weighting sounds like a decent idea, people who've already gotten majors have less of a chance to be spun (but still a chance) than those who have not gotten anything.
I know it irks people to see items get won in raffles only to be put up for sale seconds later. However, I'd rather see them remain unrestricted and unattuned and end up for sale than see them get lockered permanently because of being attuned and for whatever reason the character no longer uses that item, or because the person has closed their account. So many incredible items are lost to the locker abyss already, I'd hate to see more and more good stuff leave the lands because of attunement. I don't like the idea of items going back into the hopper if left idle on a character for x amount of time because as many people can attest, folks walk away from Gemstone, for years at a time, but then come back and pick right up where they left off. I don't know if I'd come back if I knew my coolest stuff would be gone when I did. That said, I really hate to see some of the most legendary items in the game lost, so perhaps for really rare and legendary stuff it might not be a bad idea.
The point system idea is interesting, but it has problems too. Not everyone values things alike. There were things at RtCF that to me I would not have considered "Major", and there were "Minor" ones that I would have valued above many majors. I had been chasing weightless bags for a a couple years, and yet those were a minor win... I might have picked that over an enchanting slot had I been forced to choose.
Chivrest makes a valid point, some people play this game to chase merchants, whatever ends up happening or not happening should take that into consideration.
I used to love Prime, and festivals, and all the rest, (and still do) but after my kids were born I don't have the time that I used to. I had to do some major bargaining with my wife to get the time at RtCF that I got, and even that was far far less time than I used to spend at festivals 10 years ago before marriage and kids.
I know this has been a book to read, but one last thought. For paid events, especially for expensive ones, I really liked the guaranteed 1 Major for anyone at RtCF. I know you can't do that at every festival, but it would be nice if you could run one a year like that. Make the tickets expensive by all means to limit participation, but it would be a nice offering. At $75 dollars a ticket, if someone wants to bring in 4 accounts in order to get something taken from 4x to 8x, then more power to them.
I liked the point system that was suggested. As an alternative, maybe that with each win in a given category (raffles, auctions, spins, whatevs) you get a reduction to your chance to win. Not sure how those things work, if it's just truely RNG or not, and if that's even possible to do. But let's say with no wins, you have a 100% chance (not guarantee, but the same as all other previous non-winners) and after your first win, you have 95%. After your second win, 85%, after your third win 60%, etc and so on.
I still think its unfair to single out one part of the festival. If people go for different reasons why not put limits on everything? It seems to focused just on services to me. Put limits on games, like for instance playing games could be under the same mechanics as searching the stump for trick or treat prizes and after 10 or 15 tries you have to wait a half hour. Or how about for the necropolis after you complete it no more revenents or dragoons appear. Sounds horrible to me. My point isnt to put limits on everything but to put limits on nothing. I really like having memories of the lucky times or having such a poor luck event I can say, holy moly at least it wasnt 2011 all over again. If its just sign in, hit a button for a pellet and its over it removes all the thrill of the chance to be lucky and the hectic chase and the fun. It would be like throwing away trash items for experience. Not fun!
I'm much more of a casual gamer now than I once was, but it does get disheartening to not win anything. I was scrambling around the entire weekend due to my son's ear infection, but I still tried my best to log in and get stuff. Zero T5 wins, zero raffle wins, and one spinner (for magic item recharge) isn't a whole lot. I did get some GALD the last night, so I wasn't completely shut out, but I do think at a large festival like this, that some limits should be in place, or more systems should be set up for things to be limited to actual users. (acuity flares are a great example of this...not all the slots need to be limited in this way, but at least some should be.)
RtCF didn't really require it, because with the limited attendees per run, it was near impossible to not win anything besides the one major unless you deliberately tried to do so.
Rishi
- Player of Kembal
Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."
RtCF didn't really require it, because with the limited attendees per run, it was near impossible to not win anything besides the one major unless you deliberately tried to do so.
Rishi
- Player of Kembal
Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."
Raffles and tier 5s are very rare. Even those people who claim multiple tier 5 wins(Ive never won a tier 5 in the 3 or 4 years the new grounds opened) dumped so many silvers into the games it would shock you. I dont remember exactly and Im too lazy to look but it was an average of something like 1 tier 5 per 5-7million silvers dumped into the game. I know I wasnt even close to that. Were you? So limiting them wouldnt up your chances unless you dumped that much silver into the games. For the raffles, I think I won trollbane a few ebon gates ago when it was new. I was stoked at such luck but its hardly to be expected. EG isnt RTCF.
I think RTCF has skewed peoples expectations of what a festival like ebon gate should be about. At RTCF there was enough great raffles for everyone to win one. Im not sure how many raffles were at ebon gate but I'd bet it wasnt that many for how many people were there. If it was 15% id be shocked. Ebon gate has never been about win an epic item. Its been about games, spooky atmosphere and roleplaying mixed in with galds, unlocking zesty items and a quest.
On the other hand I agree 100% with you about the specialized raffles. Profession only raffles, society only raffles, square, semi and pure only raffles. Imagine the odds of a monk only raffle! I bet it would be pretty good.
I think RTCF has skewed peoples expectations of what a festival like ebon gate should be about. At RTCF there was enough great raffles for everyone to win one. Im not sure how many raffles were at ebon gate but I'd bet it wasnt that many for how many people were there. If it was 15% id be shocked. Ebon gate has never been about win an epic item. Its been about games, spooky atmosphere and roleplaying mixed in with galds, unlocking zesty items and a quest.
On the other hand I agree 100% with you about the specialized raffles. Profession only raffles, society only raffles, square, semi and pure only raffles. Imagine the odds of a monk only raffle! I bet it would be pretty good.
I just saw this thread so I'm chiming in late.
Please do not attune. I hate attuning items ever since a merchant attuned a pair of boots to my wizard about a dozen years ago. They are just boots. Ugh. I can't even give them away. I have two accounts. If I were to only take one to a festival and there was some awesome item great for my bard on my other account I would not be able to pass it to her to use. What happens if one day I decide to give up bows? Besides the world ending, do you really want to see any of my collection go down the well because they are useless to anyone else?
This EG my luck was pretty bad compared to past ones. It happens, it is the luck of the draw. I am bad at finding my around and I did try but the spinner did not like me. I just think oh well, next year. I also share wins with friends. I get a lot of enjoyment if I can get something done for someone I like. I was at a merchant with a friend for unlocking of cooking utensils. I got an oven unlocked twice for her. There were not a lot of people there. There was a guy at the merchant that adds notes to instruments. I won a spin and was going to have it put on my bards instrument. There was a guy that did not win the spin. He spoke to his bagpipe saying maybe next time. It intrigued me so I started talking to him. He loved those bagpipes, he wanted it so bad. I got his bagpipes done for him, I did not sell the service, I even paid the merchant fee. It made me happy. He was so happy, he had them for years and had just gotten them altered.
If you limit the wins or place points on items I would really hate to start being stingy with my wins. Also, I would hate to hit some sort of limit if I were lucky and then found a fish hook or got picked for a rare service I really wanted only to find out I could not have it because I was 2 points over the limit with that win. I'd probably cancel my account out of frustration.
I'm perfectly fine with major raffle limitations of one per account or character. I'm even ok with some fish hooks going that way for some of the rarer services. I think the mix of some instrument raffles for bard only and some for everyone is great. It is fair, and I think that is what most people want. Some sort of balance. It is logical for ranger only animal grooming or bard only sonic armor raffles. The bow sighting raffle for only ranged users was a bit unfair I think. Half and half would have been fairer. I am sure many people brought characters with no bow training but had others that used ranged.
What about a book of vouchers? Like the old Disneyland ticket books? 2 E tickets, 3 D tickets etc...with A tickets being L/D, B being unlocking etc. If you get to a merchant whose unlocking service you really want, you can pass over a ticket to get service. You can bypass the spinning/room order (limit one per merchant). A set amount of voucher only per session and if more vouchers than slots a mini spin for those spots. Eventually if your luck sucks, you end up with vouchers and can get work done at the end. Maybe a few voucher only merchants at the end. The book and vouchers would be per character of course. It's not perfect I know, and would need a lot of thought and work.
This way you can wait for spin or room order but if you really want that Veola unlock you can fork over a voucher for it. Maybe if she's unlocking 20, she would accept vouchers up front for 5, and you can't be spun for this session and can't use a voucher for her shop again. Perhaps the E ticket would allow you an extra entry in a minor raffle? I know that people with 5 accounts will still get more vouchers and bog down merchants with ugly Joola gowns and closing tote bags, but I can't think of any way to make it fair. Perhaps merchant rooms that only allow the leader into the room and anyone attached has to go in individually? More spin and room order? One spin, one room order? I prefer up front spins so you can leave to find another merchant rather than camping all day for single spins.
Also, not all festivals are created equal and not all services. Good luck on this one Wyrom. No matter what, someone is going to get bent out of shape if you change things now. I do appreciate your asking and most of all caring. :)
Velvette
Please do not attune. I hate attuning items ever since a merchant attuned a pair of boots to my wizard about a dozen years ago. They are just boots. Ugh. I can't even give them away. I have two accounts. If I were to only take one to a festival and there was some awesome item great for my bard on my other account I would not be able to pass it to her to use. What happens if one day I decide to give up bows? Besides the world ending, do you really want to see any of my collection go down the well because they are useless to anyone else?
This EG my luck was pretty bad compared to past ones. It happens, it is the luck of the draw. I am bad at finding my around and I did try but the spinner did not like me. I just think oh well, next year. I also share wins with friends. I get a lot of enjoyment if I can get something done for someone I like. I was at a merchant with a friend for unlocking of cooking utensils. I got an oven unlocked twice for her. There were not a lot of people there. There was a guy at the merchant that adds notes to instruments. I won a spin and was going to have it put on my bards instrument. There was a guy that did not win the spin. He spoke to his bagpipe saying maybe next time. It intrigued me so I started talking to him. He loved those bagpipes, he wanted it so bad. I got his bagpipes done for him, I did not sell the service, I even paid the merchant fee. It made me happy. He was so happy, he had them for years and had just gotten them altered.
If you limit the wins or place points on items I would really hate to start being stingy with my wins. Also, I would hate to hit some sort of limit if I were lucky and then found a fish hook or got picked for a rare service I really wanted only to find out I could not have it because I was 2 points over the limit with that win. I'd probably cancel my account out of frustration.
I'm perfectly fine with major raffle limitations of one per account or character. I'm even ok with some fish hooks going that way for some of the rarer services. I think the mix of some instrument raffles for bard only and some for everyone is great. It is fair, and I think that is what most people want. Some sort of balance. It is logical for ranger only animal grooming or bard only sonic armor raffles. The bow sighting raffle for only ranged users was a bit unfair I think. Half and half would have been fairer. I am sure many people brought characters with no bow training but had others that used ranged.
What about a book of vouchers? Like the old Disneyland ticket books? 2 E tickets, 3 D tickets etc...with A tickets being L/D, B being unlocking etc. If you get to a merchant whose unlocking service you really want, you can pass over a ticket to get service. You can bypass the spinning/room order (limit one per merchant). A set amount of voucher only per session and if more vouchers than slots a mini spin for those spots. Eventually if your luck sucks, you end up with vouchers and can get work done at the end. Maybe a few voucher only merchants at the end. The book and vouchers would be per character of course. It's not perfect I know, and would need a lot of thought and work.
This way you can wait for spin or room order but if you really want that Veola unlock you can fork over a voucher for it. Maybe if she's unlocking 20, she would accept vouchers up front for 5, and you can't be spun for this session and can't use a voucher for her shop again. Perhaps the E ticket would allow you an extra entry in a minor raffle? I know that people with 5 accounts will still get more vouchers and bog down merchants with ugly Joola gowns and closing tote bags, but I can't think of any way to make it fair. Perhaps merchant rooms that only allow the leader into the room and anyone attached has to go in individually? More spin and room order? One spin, one room order? I prefer up front spins so you can leave to find another merchant rather than camping all day for single spins.
Also, not all festivals are created equal and not all services. Good luck on this one Wyrom. No matter what, someone is going to get bent out of shape if you change things now. I do appreciate your asking and most of all caring. :)
Velvette
Not to take away from your main points Velvette but...
>> He spoke to his bagpipe saying maybe next time. It intrigued me so I started talking to him. He loved those bagpipes, he wanted it so bad. I got his bagpipes done for him...
Bagpipes should never be encouraged or tolerated in any form or fashion. Not ever.
-- Robert
>> He spoke to his bagpipe saying maybe next time. It intrigued me so I started talking to him. He loved those bagpipes, he wanted it so bad. I got his bagpipes done for him...
Bagpipes should never be encouraged or tolerated in any form or fashion. Not ever.
-- Robert
Anyone in the D.C. area knows about the Grade 1 band who took the world championships at least a time or two in the last twenty years. They used to be Scottish & Irish Imports, before that they were Denny & Dunnipace; I honestly have no idea what they're called now.
EUSPBA (Eastern United States Pipe Band Association) probably has current information on everything--bands as well as events--up and down the east coast. Sadly, I think the Delco Games are gone, but Ligonier should still be going.
EUSPBA (Eastern United States Pipe Band Association) probably has current information on everything--bands as well as events--up and down the east coast. Sadly, I think the Delco Games are gone, but Ligonier should still be going.
I am late in this discussion.
DR's Limit I believe is 2 Alters.
Now, DR does NOT have lighten/Deepen. I do not believe they have script unlocking. They don't have flares, or enchants, or padding, or weighting.
DR has VERY little merchant activity at all. Outside of their 2-3 festivals... there pretty much are not merchants. Their system of item creation is much more robust for people to MAKE their own stuff. Weapons, armor, shields, soon clothes, magic items, and enchants, potions, etc etc etc.
I don't think GALD and unlocking of everyday items should really ever be considered in any limit.
if anything, before service limitation can be done, there should be tiers done, just like the EG games. Say 4 or 5 tiers. off the top of my head..
Class/Race/Society/Skill Items/Services - Tier 5 (Think Spirit bows going to archers, Soulstone wands going to sorcs, high end melee weapons going to swingers - Obviously for raffles)
Major Service - Tier 4
Minor Major - Tier 3
Limited Unlocking (something that won't either be available again, or only done once a year) - Tier 2
Gald/Unlimited Unlocking - Tier 1
First tier no reason to limit at all. The rest, maybe if it can be done right. One other thing to take into account, is the festival type tho. EG is an unlimited ticket service, and there are usually 200 or so people. This makes a limit a lot harder to reach even, but still easily possible for the quick or the "lucky".
Now events like RtCF were you can pay much more then an EG price for the ticket, and end up with JUST a Major service.. that really would seem to benefit from some kind of limiting. I don't see why anyone would be ok with a RNG deciding that person X gets spun/drawn for 23 services/items and person Y that was at each one as well gets nothing. There could have been a 4-5 Minor win limit at RtCF, and people still would have "won" enough to make the ticket worth it. This wouldn't even impact most of those "wealthy" people, since hey would still buy what they wanted afterwards.
Basically, it's really a fine line. I have the most horrible luck at raffles and spinners, so frankly of course I wouldn't mind a limit on some services, cause it's the only way I would seem to have a reasonable chance. Then there are the people that win 10 raffles or get spun 20 times in a 2 day orgy of merchant work. Why would they want a limit?
No matter how anyone looks at it, it will never be perfect. But if it is reasonable, I don't think as many people will complain.
Yes, DR has a very narrow scope of services and items. My GoryWeapons, for example, are based off their BloodWeapons. Their version of DMC highlights a lot of their cool swag.
GM Vanah and I actually talked about this a lot in the months leading up to Ebon Gate, and then some after. The issue is, Vanah and I understand what it's like to put a lot of effort into a festival, on the player end of it. Because we did it ourselves.
I remember the later runs of the Wavedancer and the second run of Anfelt very clearly. I know I slept a fraction of the weekend. I remember being in our own little corner of the world hitting the event by storm. It was fun, but you have to put a lot of work into it.
But I don't see that drive out there anymore. Maybe we're all getting older. Maybe we depend too much on others. Maybe we hired most the players that do this as GMs. I really don't have the answer. I remember the old EG grounds and being lucky to just walk away with something altered or customized. I felt lucky when I got my imflass full plate altered and lightened one year. By the merchant Slurmm. You guys remember Slurmm!? One of GM Voraviel's NPCs with a lot of quirks.
...I'm rambling.
If we institute anything like a point or tier system, it will be very carefully planned.
~Wyrom, SGM
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GM Vanah and I actually talked about this a lot in the months leading up to Ebon Gate, and then some after. The issue is, Vanah and I understand what it's like to put a lot of effort into a festival, on the player end of it. Because we did it ourselves.
I remember the later runs of the Wavedancer and the second run of Anfelt very clearly. I know I slept a fraction of the weekend. I remember being in our own little corner of the world hitting the event by storm. It was fun, but you have to put a lot of work into it.
But I don't see that drive out there anymore. Maybe we're all getting older. Maybe we depend too much on others. Maybe we hired most the players that do this as GMs. I really don't have the answer. I remember the old EG grounds and being lucky to just walk away with something altered or customized. I felt lucky when I got my imflass full plate altered and lightened one year. By the merchant Slurmm. You guys remember Slurmm!? One of GM Voraviel's NPCs with a lot of quirks.
...I'm rambling.
If we institute anything like a point or tier system, it will be very carefully planned.
~Wyrom, SGM
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Back in my day there was no ;go2 merchant! I had to memorize maps and figure out the fastest way to a workroom on the fly. Kids these days, hrmmmph. Get off my lawn and/or cypress grove.
In all honesty, however, I feel the ;go2 merchant mapping has done a lot to kill the experience of actually merchant hunting. As soon as I announce, I'll have 40 people in my room in under a minute for the more desirable services. There's no way I can take that many customers for alteration work so I've largely abandoned it. As a player, I absolutely hated getting to a merchant and not getting something done. I've changed my merchant work up, substantially, to shift toward services that I can perform for everyone who shows up OR limit who is admitted at any given session so I can get a smaller crowd and still offer a service to everyone.
Not really good or bad, I suppose, but I've definitely changed my approach due to Lich and the instant ;go2 crowd and trying to accommodate the larger number of people who show up.
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
In all honesty, however, I feel the ;go2 merchant mapping has done a lot to kill the experience of actually merchant hunting. As soon as I announce, I'll have 40 people in my room in under a minute for the more desirable services. There's no way I can take that many customers for alteration work so I've largely abandoned it. As a player, I absolutely hated getting to a merchant and not getting something done. I've changed my merchant work up, substantially, to shift toward services that I can perform for everyone who shows up OR limit who is admitted at any given session so I can get a smaller crowd and still offer a service to everyone.
Not really good or bad, I suppose, but I've definitely changed my approach due to Lich and the instant ;go2 crowd and trying to accommodate the larger number of people who show up.
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
I didn't use go2 at all during the fest except to go to the bank a couple of times. I didn't have trouble getting work done, or the opportunity to at least get spun for. More than anything else that gives an advantage (and rightfully so I think), is that you guys are using essentially the same grounds from year to year and keeping merchants in pretty much the same places. So if you attended last year (I did), and you have a pretty good GS sense of direction and location memory, you shouldn't have any trouble getting to Bazzelwyn's, finding the midway, the bank, digging, etc etc. If you were new to the fest and these grounds, and you chose not to look at any maps or read any outside information, then you were at a severe disadvantage.
>In all honesty, however, I feel the ;go2 merchant mapping has done a lot to kill the experience of actually merchant hunting
I'd like to point out something here: The bulk of the merchant shops for EG this year were mapped for lich by me. Some of the grounds based on previous years, but very few (if any) of the merchant rooms were already there. Some of what WAS there was broken due to changes in rooms (even if the change was minor).
I did this on Friday night, and sent it to be updated. The update didn't occur until Tuesday. Unless someone else did a lich/go2 map for their personal consumption, any actual merchant searching until Tuesday was done primarily by memory, and sheer effort.
As an aside: It took a good chunk of my opening night to do it, and I got up at 5 am to finish; I sent it in as soon as I was done. I did this in an effort to level the playing field for as many people as possible, in part because ANYONE could do their own personal ;go2 map for any event - it's simply not that hard. So, instead of a handful of people having their own personal ;go2 abilities, and beating everyone to ever merchant, we ended up with most people having it by Tuesday.
That said, I got some flack for having done it because it gave me an unfair advantage until it was updated; as such, I won't be doing it again.
As a general rule, you simply couldn't go straight to a merchant room with go2 before Tuesday. The best you could hope was to get close.
I'd like to point out something here: The bulk of the merchant shops for EG this year were mapped for lich by me. Some of the grounds based on previous years, but very few (if any) of the merchant rooms were already there. Some of what WAS there was broken due to changes in rooms (even if the change was minor).
I did this on Friday night, and sent it to be updated. The update didn't occur until Tuesday. Unless someone else did a lich/go2 map for their personal consumption, any actual merchant searching until Tuesday was done primarily by memory, and sheer effort.
As an aside: It took a good chunk of my opening night to do it, and I got up at 5 am to finish; I sent it in as soon as I was done. I did this in an effort to level the playing field for as many people as possible, in part because ANYONE could do their own personal ;go2 map for any event - it's simply not that hard. So, instead of a handful of people having their own personal ;go2 abilities, and beating everyone to ever merchant, we ended up with most people having it by Tuesday.
That said, I got some flack for having done it because it gave me an unfair advantage until it was updated; as such, I won't be doing it again.
As a general rule, you simply couldn't go straight to a merchant room with go2 before Tuesday. The best you could hope was to get close.
