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ReplyActually, with some merchants, it seems like you HAVE to have go2. A merchant announces they will spin in 5 minutes, you are on the other side of the fest. And not sure what room that merchant is even in. You have to check the map, maybe your list of merchant rooms, maybe GSGuide, etc etc. Then you go there. Oops.. Already spun.
30 Min warnings generate bigger crowds, but then you at least have time. G02 does in a sense pose an issue for those that have everything ready and the second the merchant is done spinning they type in the next merchant that sent out an announcement. Personally, I ignored most merchant work during EG, unless it was something a friend wanted. GALD are available throughout the year fairly easily. And with EG being an unlimited ticket event, 1 in 188 odds for a spin is kinda bah. Heck, I been in a room with 11 people numerous times and the GM spun for 10 and I didn't get picked. It happens to all of us eventually.
The only reason I even remotely get as many services as I do, is my friends drag me to places.
Maybe, in a way, it could almost be done in the opposite way. Limit ticket events, instead of a max limit, a Minimum. Based on type of event and cost. $40 ticket, 2 GLAD for example. Last day of the fest, a couple of GM's check to see who didn't get work and offer their service. This may never really work for something like EG where there can easily be 200 people, but things like the old WD or such..
EG sports around 350 to 450 tickets each year. It's a lot of work going through each account to see if they got anything. Some GMs try to draw crowds, and then check the individual at the time they offer the service. But picking them out prior would be very time consuming. And then there is the whole bit where if players are spending their time digging and playing games. You sort of sign your own wishes that you didn't want any services in that case.
~Wyrom, SGM
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~Wyrom, SGM
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My go2 didn't work. I still made it to the merchants with a map and the reference guide that Nilandia worked on. I just didn't get picked a lot. It always takes me a long time to get used to the grounds. I didn't even know there was a hidden part of the graveyard for instance until someone took me there trying to help me get a carousel for my sorceress.
By the way Wyrom, I'd be all for another Wave Dancer. I started cleaning out and organizing my lockers and found Velvette's photo album. It was fun to actually look at it and see so many people who have stopped playing. I miss them a lot.
Velvette
By the way Wyrom, I'd be all for another Wave Dancer. I started cleaning out and organizing my lockers and found Velvette's photo album. It was fun to actually look at it and see so many people who have stopped playing. I miss them a lot.
Velvette
>>But I don't see that drive out there anymore.
I disagree, the drive is still there for a lot of people (see Tamuz's reference to the ;go2 crowd) and it's because of it that we're having this discussion. People like services. Introducing limits will essentially kill that drive and, for many, their enthusiasm for ticketed events. To repeat a point I made in an earlier post: What's the point of staying up late and racing around from merchant to merchant like a mad thing if you're going to reach your limit on day 2 of a 5 day festival? You might as well just sell a ticket and hand out vouchers on day 1 for guaranteed work so those that log in for 5 hours get the same as those that log in for 50 but I bet you the atmosphere won't be the same.
>>Maybe we're all getting older. Maybe we depend too much on others. Maybe we hired most the players that do this as GMs.
Or maybe we're just getting a little more resourceful and preparing for events by using maps and merchant lists from previous years. As KristenL pointed out lich was extremely unreliable during most of EG until she very kindly fixed it but people still managed to crowd out the popular merchants without it.
>>If we institute anything like a point or tier system, it will be very carefully planned.
Personally, I hope it's a big IF.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
I disagree, the drive is still there for a lot of people (see Tamuz's reference to the ;go2 crowd) and it's because of it that we're having this discussion. People like services. Introducing limits will essentially kill that drive and, for many, their enthusiasm for ticketed events. To repeat a point I made in an earlier post: What's the point of staying up late and racing around from merchant to merchant like a mad thing if you're going to reach your limit on day 2 of a 5 day festival? You might as well just sell a ticket and hand out vouchers on day 1 for guaranteed work so those that log in for 5 hours get the same as those that log in for 50 but I bet you the atmosphere won't be the same.
>>Maybe we're all getting older. Maybe we depend too much on others. Maybe we hired most the players that do this as GMs.
Or maybe we're just getting a little more resourceful and preparing for events by using maps and merchant lists from previous years. As KristenL pointed out lich was extremely unreliable during most of EG until she very kindly fixed it but people still managed to crowd out the popular merchants without it.
>>If we institute anything like a point or tier system, it will be very carefully planned.
Personally, I hope it's a big IF.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
>Last day of the fest, a couple of GM's check to see who didn't get work and offer their service.
I did this this year. I spent seven hours taking people with fewer than five services and working for them, and that was only checking people who came to me. Some of them were just unlucky; others had real life conflicts, and others just didn't chase any merchant work.
My merchant was in SERVICE and I repeatedly sent out criers and thoughts that I was available. There were a few people who ran by the room that received very few services that did not want them when I used SEND to tell them they could come back and have work if they wanted. One of them even cussed me out and told me to leave her alone. I had a few people pass on the work because they couldn't think of anything they needed. There were some people that showed up that had five services, but probably would have preferred a GALD over one of their five services had they known it would be either/or. And then I had people complain to me that I wouldn't work for them on a secondary character when they already had 20+ things done on the account.
As for sharing locations, my announcements all went something like this: A voice announces, "Druena is working in the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
I give you the shop name, the portal description, and some sort of spatial guide. If you aren't willing to look at a list or glance at a map, there's not really a whole lot more information I can give. I remember similar issues as a player. A merchant would announce and someone in the chat would ask WHERE IS HARCELER? I'd respond that he's in room 18 on the map. They'd ask where that was. I'd say it's at the northeast corner of the outermost circle. They'd ask how to get there. Outside of some URCHIN guide-like system, I just don't know how to give each individual person a direct route to my merchants; and if we did something like that, we'd have to reconsider how choose customers if everyone could be at the merchant as fast as it took them to type FESTIVAL GUIDE DRUENA.
~Vanah
I did this this year. I spent seven hours taking people with fewer than five services and working for them, and that was only checking people who came to me. Some of them were just unlucky; others had real life conflicts, and others just didn't chase any merchant work.
My merchant was in SERVICE and I repeatedly sent out criers and thoughts that I was available. There were a few people who ran by the room that received very few services that did not want them when I used SEND to tell them they could come back and have work if they wanted. One of them even cussed me out and told me to leave her alone. I had a few people pass on the work because they couldn't think of anything they needed. There were some people that showed up that had five services, but probably would have preferred a GALD over one of their five services had they known it would be either/or. And then I had people complain to me that I wouldn't work for them on a secondary character when they already had 20+ things done on the account.
As for sharing locations, my announcements all went something like this: A voice announces, "Druena is working in the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
I give you the shop name, the portal description, and some sort of spatial guide. If you aren't willing to look at a list or glance at a map, there's not really a whole lot more information I can give. I remember similar issues as a player. A merchant would announce and someone in the chat would ask WHERE IS HARCELER? I'd respond that he's in room 18 on the map. They'd ask where that was. I'd say it's at the northeast corner of the outermost circle. They'd ask how to get there. Outside of some URCHIN guide-like system, I just don't know how to give each individual person a direct route to my merchants; and if we did something like that, we'd have to reconsider how choose customers if everyone could be at the merchant as fast as it took them to type FESTIVAL GUIDE DRUENA.
~Vanah
>>One of them even cussed me out and told me to leave her alone. ... And then I had people complain to me that I wouldn't work for them on a secondary character when they already had 20+ things done on the account.
This just blows my mind.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
This just blows my mind.
>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom
~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~
>>I disagree, the drive is still there for a lot of people (see Tamuz's reference to the ;go2 crowd) and it's because of it that we're having this discussion. People like services. Introducing limits will essentially kill that drive and, for many, their enthusiasm for ticketed events. To repeat a point I made in an earlier post: What's the point of staying up late and racing around from merchant to merchant like a mad thing if you're going to reach your limit on day 2 of a 5 day festival? You might as well just sell a ticket and hand out vouchers on day 1 for guaranteed work so those that log in for 5 hours get the same as those that log in for 50 but I bet you the atmosphere won't be the same.
No no, I get that there are SOME people who still have this drive. But it's definitely SOME. And those people are the ones that tend to get talked about as having all the luck, or people feeling everything is extremely lopsided.
Like I said earlier, if I were a player, and a limitation were being instituted, I would not go to many events anymore. Because I went with the idea to hammer it as hard as I could.
>>Or maybe we're just getting a little more resourceful and preparing for events by using maps and merchant lists from previous years. As KristenL pointed out lich was extremely unreliable during most of EG until she very kindly fixed it but people still managed to crowd out the popular merchants without it.
The point system that was suggested is to help those that don't prepare though, or have terrible luck. I would say say there are a handful of people being resourceful and laying the groundwork out for everyone else, and a bunch of others using that. As KRISTENL explained, it was confusion until Tuesday.
~Wyrom, SGM
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No no, I get that there are SOME people who still have this drive. But it's definitely SOME. And those people are the ones that tend to get talked about as having all the luck, or people feeling everything is extremely lopsided.
Like I said earlier, if I were a player, and a limitation were being instituted, I would not go to many events anymore. Because I went with the idea to hammer it as hard as I could.
>>Or maybe we're just getting a little more resourceful and preparing for events by using maps and merchant lists from previous years. As KristenL pointed out lich was extremely unreliable during most of EG until she very kindly fixed it but people still managed to crowd out the popular merchants without it.
The point system that was suggested is to help those that don't prepare though, or have terrible luck. I would say say there are a handful of people being resourceful and laying the groundwork out for everyone else, and a bunch of others using that. As KRISTENL explained, it was confusion until Tuesday.
~Wyrom, SGM
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>Like I said earlier, if I were a player, and a limitation were being instituted, I would not go to many events anymore
This baffles my mind. Are you trying to sell less tickets to paid events? Because I agree, I certainly would think twice if limits were put in place. Am I really paying $50 for 3 alters and a miniscule chance at a raffle or tier 5 prize? So not worth it.
>The point system that was suggested is to help those that don't prepare though
The problem is, read Vanah's post. There is a vocal group of players who will complain about it not being fair but short of instituting FESTIVAL GUIDE DRUENA even if the regular motivated crowd quit playing because of the limits they still wouldnt find it. If the service means so little that you're not willing to look on a map and find it then what are they complaining about? If it is important to their character whats wrong with putting a little effort into it? Its six days, is it really too much to ask the player base to download a map of the grounds, have the ebon gate gsguide website open and use the find option on the browser to find which map room # the shop is on and then walk over? The ebon gate blast chat was advertised on Lnet, was posted on the PC etc. Its not like it was an exclusive place for only people in the "in" crowd.
This baffles my mind. Are you trying to sell less tickets to paid events? Because I agree, I certainly would think twice if limits were put in place. Am I really paying $50 for 3 alters and a miniscule chance at a raffle or tier 5 prize? So not worth it.
>The point system that was suggested is to help those that don't prepare though
The problem is, read Vanah's post. There is a vocal group of players who will complain about it not being fair but short of instituting FESTIVAL GUIDE DRUENA even if the regular motivated crowd quit playing because of the limits they still wouldnt find it. If the service means so little that you're not willing to look on a map and find it then what are they complaining about? If it is important to their character whats wrong with putting a little effort into it? Its six days, is it really too much to ask the player base to download a map of the grounds, have the ebon gate gsguide website open and use the find option on the browser to find which map room # the shop is on and then walk over? The ebon gate blast chat was advertised on Lnet, was posted on the PC etc. Its not like it was an exclusive place for only people in the "in" crowd.
I think it's time to take a moment and digest what we're doing here. This is an open discussion with players to see what you all think of the subject. In no way did we say we are limiting wins anymore than we already do. I've even gone as far as saying its something I'd be against as a player. But that doesn't mean I don't want to keep discussing it with everyone.
A point and tiered system were brought up. That's why I continue to talk about it.
~Wyrom, SGM
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A point and tiered system were brought up. That's why I continue to talk about it.
~Wyrom, SGM
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I know Gemstone does not endorse or support the use of 3rd party software, but as you all mentioned, Lich and the script go2 make a massive difference to the point where those using it and updating it appear to have a huge advantage.
All the rooms have Room Numbers in Lich. What if, and I admit this is a crazy thought, but what if the GMs had a map with Lich room numbers on it, and in their announcements said, "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
Then anyone who has lich doesn't have to have an update that requires 4 days to do. Day one (at least on any existing festival), everyone can be on an even playing field right off the bat. New festivals and changed rooms could be coordinated with the folks keeping lich maps up-to-date, ahead of time.
Just a thought.
All the rooms have Room Numbers in Lich. What if, and I admit this is a crazy thought, but what if the GMs had a map with Lich room numbers on it, and in their announcements said, "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
Then anyone who has lich doesn't have to have an update that requires 4 days to do. Day one (at least on any existing festival), everyone can be on an even playing field right off the bat. New festivals and changed rooms could be coordinated with the folks keeping lich maps up-to-date, ahead of time.
Just a thought.
Been reading this and I really have little to say than the system in place seems to work just fine.
I've been to events where I walked away with little work and others that I have had a ton of work.
If anything I would say more spinners, less raffles and join lists. I really really hate lists especially the rotating kind.
That you all go out of your way to do work for people who have not had work done goes a long way towards solving the problem of those not lucky in the other forms of getting picked. And kudos to you guys for doing that.
Chad, player of a few
I've been to events where I walked away with little work and others that I have had a ton of work.
If anything I would say more spinners, less raffles and join lists. I really really hate lists especially the rotating kind.
That you all go out of your way to do work for people who have not had work done goes a long way towards solving the problem of those not lucky in the other forms of getting picked. And kudos to you guys for doing that.
Chad, player of a few
>> "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."<<
No...just...no, look Lich is a great tool used by a ton of people (myself included) but a merchant is an NPC....a charecter in a role playing game. Do we really want to get to the point where EVERYTHING is jarring you out of charecter? Is this really something you want as the norm?
I'm sorry but the day I see a merchant giving a Lich room number is the day I know the GS I grew up with is dead.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
No...just...no, look Lich is a great tool used by a ton of people (myself included) but a merchant is an NPC....a charecter in a role playing game. Do we really want to get to the point where EVERYTHING is jarring you out of charecter? Is this really something you want as the norm?
I'm sorry but the day I see a merchant giving a Lich room number is the day I know the GS I grew up with is dead.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
>>I know Gemstone does not endorse or support the use of 3rd party software, but as you all mentioned, Lich and the script go2 make a massive difference to the point where those using it and updating it appear to have a huge advantage.
>>All the rooms have Room Numbers in Lich. What if, and I admit this is a crazy thought, but what if the GMs had a map with Lich room numbers on it, and in their announcements said, "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
>>Then anyone who has lich doesn't have to have an update that requires 4 days to do. Day one (at least on any existing festival), everyone can be on an even playing field right off the bat. New festivals and changed rooms could be coordinated with the folks keeping lich maps up-to-date, ahead of time.
Lich gives people a massive advantage... so let's make that advantage even stronger..?
Great, let's further drag the existing OOC atmosphere of festivals further down the hellchute. And let's simultaneously feed the ever-increasing "play Lich or don't play" attitude. At that point, all you're doing is checking to see whether someone has (1) installed Lich and (2) can type ";go2 17994." What's the point?
I would much rather see: "Lord Tallywillingershireford is working wherever he bloody well pleases. Speak aloud the secret word 'kerfuffle,' and his merry band of pixies shall arrive shortly to transport you there."
>>All the rooms have Room Numbers in Lich. What if, and I admit this is a crazy thought, but what if the GMs had a map with Lich room numbers on it, and in their announcements said, "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
>>Then anyone who has lich doesn't have to have an update that requires 4 days to do. Day one (at least on any existing festival), everyone can be on an even playing field right off the bat. New festivals and changed rooms could be coordinated with the folks keeping lich maps up-to-date, ahead of time.
Lich gives people a massive advantage... so let's make that advantage even stronger..?
Great, let's further drag the existing OOC atmosphere of festivals further down the hellchute. And let's simultaneously feed the ever-increasing "play Lich or don't play" attitude. At that point, all you're doing is checking to see whether someone has (1) installed Lich and (2) can type ";go2 17994." What's the point?
I would much rather see: "Lord Tallywillingershireford is working wherever he bloody well pleases. Speak aloud the secret word 'kerfuffle,' and his merry band of pixies shall arrive shortly to transport you there."
All the rooms have Room Numbers in Lich. What if, and I admit this is a crazy thought, but what if the GMs had a map with Lich room numbers on it, and in their announcements said, "Hey, working on such and such in room 17994, also known as the morning room of Booze and Brews, the dark-paneled wagon outside Rumrunners' Tavern."
Personally I think that would be a step in the wrong direction for many reasons. Instead I would prefer that, as part of the festival, a map was provided with key locations indicated on the map as part of the event. Similar to when you attend most fairs/festivals IRL where a map is typically made available at the entrance.
In the absence of a map, I typically spend the beginning of larger events (like EG) going from room to room and documenting which shops are in each location so that I can get to the quickly. Would I prefer not to do this? Absolutely. Do I use Lich if someone says merchant x is at lich id 1234? You bet (and I will provide the lich id of a merchant room I am in to others asking as well). But I definitely don't want to see staff/merchants catering to this in their communications.
-- Robert
Personally I think that would be a step in the wrong direction for many reasons. Instead I would prefer that, as part of the festival, a map was provided with key locations indicated on the map as part of the event. Similar to when you attend most fairs/festivals IRL where a map is typically made available at the entrance.
In the absence of a map, I typically spend the beginning of larger events (like EG) going from room to room and documenting which shops are in each location so that I can get to the quickly. Would I prefer not to do this? Absolutely. Do I use Lich if someone says merchant x is at lich id 1234? You bet (and I will provide the lich id of a merchant room I am in to others asking as well). But I definitely don't want to see staff/merchants catering to this in their communications.
-- Robert
One thing for festivals. EG included. Entrance to the groups should open MORE then 30 minutes prior to work generally starting. Entering the grounds at 9:00 and seeing 10 minutes later "So and So will be working in such and such place in 15 minutes" Is kinda frustrating, when ever with a map, you don't know where such and such a place is. Granted, Prime usually gets a benefit of Plat having done it already, but we shouldn't have to.
Like someone else said. If you go to the Fair, it's likely you can get a map that shows you where all the key locations are. Not to mention show times. It's not just a blank map with squares and a number in it, where you have to figure out where Lord Feringtonworthlessspeckelbottom is at. The map TELLS you where you can expect to see him.
I know some people love to map out things. But generally, if you are going to a festival, it's likely the merchants WANT you to be able to find their booths, not expect the visiting patrons to map out the festival on their own.
>>I would much rather see: "Lord Tallywillingershireford is working wherever he bloody well pleases. Speak aloud the secret word 'kerfuffle,' and his merry band of pixies shall arrive shortly to transport you there."
Hahaha. I need to work kerfuffle into something. And Tallywillingers (character limitation) an available name.
>>One thing for festivals. EG included. Entrance to the groups should open MORE then 30 minutes prior to work generally starting. Entering the grounds at 9:00 and seeing 10 minutes later "So and So will be working in such and such place in 15 minutes" Is kinda frustrating, when ever with a map, you don't know where such and such a place is. Granted, Prime usually gets a benefit of Plat having done it already, but we shouldn't have to.
So you rather the festival be dead for 30 minutes? What if that's the only time that GM can get on Friday?
It's a serious question.
~Wyrom, SGM
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Hahaha. I need to work kerfuffle into something. And Tallywillingers (character limitation) an available name.
>>One thing for festivals. EG included. Entrance to the groups should open MORE then 30 minutes prior to work generally starting. Entering the grounds at 9:00 and seeing 10 minutes later "So and So will be working in such and such place in 15 minutes" Is kinda frustrating, when ever with a map, you don't know where such and such a place is. Granted, Prime usually gets a benefit of Plat having done it already, but we shouldn't have to.
So you rather the festival be dead for 30 minutes? What if that's the only time that GM can get on Friday?
It's a serious question.
~Wyrom, SGM
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>>One thing for festivals. EG included. Entrance to the groups should open MORE then 30 minutes prior to work generally starting. Entering the grounds at 9:00 and seeing 10 minutes later "So and So will be working in such and such place in 15 minutes" Is kinda frustrating, when ever with a map, you don't know where such and such a place is. Granted, Prime usually gets a benefit of Plat having done it already, but we shouldn't have to.
<<So you rather the festival be dead for 30 minutes? What if that's the only time that GM can get on Friday?
>>It's a serious question.
One idea I liked even more than keeping the festival open for shopping (If there had to be a choice), would be to open it that Friday morning. People could go inside to get a feel for the grounds, browse the stuff for sale and potentially buy a lot of the stuff they know they're going to want, read the merchant signs to highlight Merchant names, shop names, make a map, etc. Having the grounds open just minutes before the action makes an event more like black Friday than say the opening of a week long fair/carnival.
Lochiven
It's kind of similar to the shopping time request. Down time for people to get the lay of the land before they need to know where things are. Shopping time request aside, open the grounds at 6:00 and start merchant activities on/after 9:00. Now the merchant that can only work Friday at 9:00 can still work Friday at 9:00.
6:00 means someone needs to be there at 6:00 to start things up? Which is easier? Opening the grounds earlier in the day or creating a useful map ahead of time which shows shop locations/points of interest?
Honestly of those two options I would prefer to have a useful map with the grounds opening at 9:00. If you don't have anyone on staff willing/able to create the map or if there are too many individual contributors involved to effectively pull it all together before the event starts then go with plan B and open the grounds earlier for exploring.
-- Robert
6:00 means someone needs to be there at 6:00 to start things up? Which is easier? Opening the grounds earlier in the day or creating a useful map ahead of time which shows shop locations/points of interest?
Honestly of those two options I would prefer to have a useful map with the grounds opening at 9:00. If you don't have anyone on staff willing/able to create the map or if there are too many individual contributors involved to effectively pull it all together before the event starts then go with plan B and open the grounds earlier for exploring.
-- Robert
Yeah, I get the shopping request, we'll be discussing that behind the scenes for next year. But even if we opened it, say, noon on Friday, it doesn't help the 9 to 5'ers on the west coast. I really feel we're damned if we do or damned if we don't here.
~Wyrom, SGM
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~Wyrom, SGM
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>So you rather the festival be dead for 30 minutes? What if that's the only time that GM can get on Friday?
I am all for the exciting kickoff to festivals like ebon gate. The hectic where is that, how do I get there, run run run is part of the fun. I also like when several merchants all announce at once, its like a haze of greedy confusion of where to go first.
I am all for the exciting kickoff to festivals like ebon gate. The hectic where is that, how do I get there, run run run is part of the fun. I also like when several merchants all announce at once, its like a haze of greedy confusion of where to go first.
>>I would much rather see: "Lord Tallywillingershireford is working wherever he bloody well pleases. Speak aloud the secret word 'kerfuffle,' and his merry band of pixies shall arrive shortly to transport you there."
Next month, all my merchants will be working wherever the bloody hell they please. Maybe I'll make a fishhook called, "a secret kerfuffle."
~GM Liia
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Next month, all my merchants will be working wherever the bloody hell they please. Maybe I'll make a fishhook called, "a secret kerfuffle."
~GM Liia
Premium, Platinum & Promotions Team
>>So you rather the festival be dead for 30 minutes? What if that's the only time that GM can get on Friday?
It's a serious question.<<
Why not have an in game map and schedule appear when you purchase your EG ticket just use the verb that the simucoin store uses to deliver. Then if a merchant can only be there for 20 minutes everyone knows a head of time.
>> noon on Friday, it doesn't help the 9 to 5'ers on the west coast.<<
If you really want to look out for the left coasters EG shouldn't open until 10 or 11pm, that way they can get home, grab a little dinner and get ready for Merchant poluzza.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
It's a serious question.<<
Why not have an in game map and schedule appear when you purchase your EG ticket just use the verb that the simucoin store uses to deliver. Then if a merchant can only be there for 20 minutes everyone knows a head of time.
>> noon on Friday, it doesn't help the 9 to 5'ers on the west coast.<<
If you really want to look out for the left coasters EG shouldn't open until 10 or 11pm, that way they can get home, grab a little dinner and get ready for Merchant poluzza.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
>> Do we really want to get to the point where EVERYTHING is jarring you out of charecter? Is this really something you want as the norm?
A valid point. I can see where that would be jarring. I may be mostly playing in Shattered these days, but I do still RP in Prime when I have a chance.
Let me jump on the Better Map bandwagon. If we could get a map ahead of the festival with a list of what shops are in what rooms, that would help. I get that there are people behind the merchant characters and those people want the freedom to set up shop where the mood strikes. However, if things like Raffles/auctions/etc could be added to the map, that also would help. Also, while some GMs want to be able to move around and be free, if there are any merchants that are tied to a specific shop or room for whatever reason, if that could be put on the map that would be great.
I also like the idea of opening the grounds early for exploring and shopping. I don't know how many times I've been at merchant events in the past only to have the merchant say they are working on merchandise from their own shop, but I've had no time to look at their wares yet much less buy anything. The other issue I've had is getting a place at a merchant's list only to discover that I don't have anything eligible for work because of them being scripted or flared or fusion, or whatever, all while being surrounded by a festival full of cool stuff that I just haven't had time to check out.
On that note, one of the things that has always saved me in the past was the great work Gretchen/Nilandia.com does on her merchant notes. Thanks to the fact that Plat usually opens first she generally has a great write up on everything available. Kudos to her!
A valid point. I can see where that would be jarring. I may be mostly playing in Shattered these days, but I do still RP in Prime when I have a chance.
Let me jump on the Better Map bandwagon. If we could get a map ahead of the festival with a list of what shops are in what rooms, that would help. I get that there are people behind the merchant characters and those people want the freedom to set up shop where the mood strikes. However, if things like Raffles/auctions/etc could be added to the map, that also would help. Also, while some GMs want to be able to move around and be free, if there are any merchants that are tied to a specific shop or room for whatever reason, if that could be put on the map that would be great.
I also like the idea of opening the grounds early for exploring and shopping. I don't know how many times I've been at merchant events in the past only to have the merchant say they are working on merchandise from their own shop, but I've had no time to look at their wares yet much less buy anything. The other issue I've had is getting a place at a merchant's list only to discover that I don't have anything eligible for work because of them being scripted or flared or fusion, or whatever, all while being surrounded by a festival full of cool stuff that I just haven't had time to check out.
On that note, one of the things that has always saved me in the past was the great work Gretchen/Nilandia.com does on her merchant notes. Thanks to the fact that Plat usually opens first she generally has a great write up on everything available. Kudos to her!
<<
If you really want to look out for the left coasters EG shouldn't open until 10 or 11pm, that way they can get home, grab a little dinner and get ready for Merchant poluzza.
>>
The person opening/closing the festival would like it to open and close at a reasonable time with a reasonable amount of time post opening/closing for monitoring. ;)
SGM Sleken
As a player, I didn't mind not knowing exactly where everything was. It was frustrating at times, sure - but there was something attractive, exciting, mysterious, even, about not knowing every single thing about the festival and grounds. It was annoying at times, certainly, to think, "I know where that is!" and run over, only to find that I was STILL like the 60th person in the room. Ugh.
Pre-postings of merchant times, detailed maps with areas for merchants, lich room numbers (oh man, please no) and the like, really disenchant it for me - both as a player and a GM. I know that if I have to pre-schedule my time, it'll be much less than the obsessive do-when-I-want merchanting that I was able to do this year.
Perhaps I am in the minority. I think people have become so reliant on lich that ANY effort to maneuver and navigate a festival is seen as a deterrent. For instance - I had inventory in one of my shops that was not right out in the open. (ie: in a bowl behind a platform) Every single person that came into the room asked "where is the item?!" I had to put it on the signs - and even then, they still asked! No one wanted to actually look around the room that I worked so hard to create! *sniff sniff*
Back to the discussion at hand, though... I have nothing to add on that one. Hehe.
~ Haliste ~
All Things MHO
Pre-postings of merchant times, detailed maps with areas for merchants, lich room numbers (oh man, please no) and the like, really disenchant it for me - both as a player and a GM. I know that if I have to pre-schedule my time, it'll be much less than the obsessive do-when-I-want merchanting that I was able to do this year.
Perhaps I am in the minority. I think people have become so reliant on lich that ANY effort to maneuver and navigate a festival is seen as a deterrent. For instance - I had inventory in one of my shops that was not right out in the open. (ie: in a bowl behind a platform) Every single person that came into the room asked "where is the item?!" I had to put it on the signs - and even then, they still asked! No one wanted to actually look around the room that I worked so hard to create! *sniff sniff*
Back to the discussion at hand, though... I have nothing to add on that one. Hehe.
~ Haliste ~
All Things MHO
>No one wanted to actually look around the room that I worked so hard to create! *sniff sniff*
that brings us back to the shopping time discussion, where I explicitly asked GMs whether they wanted their creations appreciated, because the reality is most people are not going to choose shopping over merchant services.
>Pre-postings of merchant times, detailed maps with areas for merchants, lich room numbers (oh man, please no) and the like, really disenchant it for me - both as a player and a GM. I know that if I have to pre-schedule my time, it'll be much less than the obsessive do-when-I-want merchanting that I was able to do this year.
I think what people want posted in terms of merchant services are the things like flares, kroderine, resistances, and other services that give special mechanical benefits. I'm not sure if this would include or exclude you since I don't have time to go back into the EG folder and search to see what you offered.
In regards to disenchantment, I think you are in the minority. People are going to make maps. Period. While I don't understand people who say others had an advantage this year, information was as open as I've ever seen it, if GMs feel they need to somehow level the playing field because some people feel this information is unavailable to them (????????), then officially releasing maps with shop locations prior to the fest is how to do it.
While finding hidden things in game is fun, I think GMs should be reminded that the shops are run by merchants, and merchants not dealing in black market items typically tell people what their stuff is and don't hide needles for sale in haystacks located under blankets in a back room. When I shop for a computer I don't be any random thing with a keyboard and a screen, I need to know the details, first. I know the bowl you're referring to and I think you had to be using Stormfront in order to be able to find it within a reasonable amount of time.
<<I know the bowl you're referring to and I think you had to be using Stormfront in order to be able to find it within a reasonable amount of time.>>
Not really. It was just a matter of looking behind an object in the room, which could be done with either front end. I haven't used the Wizard in a long time, but so far as I know, the only advantage Stormfront provides is adding links to the window so people know what they can interact with. Anything else is just messing with the objects in the room or searching in the right rooms.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Not really. It was just a matter of looking behind an object in the room, which could be done with either front end. I haven't used the Wizard in a long time, but so far as I know, the only advantage Stormfront provides is adding links to the window so people know what they can interact with. Anything else is just messing with the objects in the room or searching in the right rooms.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
>Not really. It was just a matter of looking behind an object in the room, which could be done with either front end. I haven't used the Wizard in a long time, but so far as I know, the only advantage Stormfront provides is adding links to the window so people know what they can interact with. Anything else is just messing with the objects in the room or searching in the right rooms.
yes, but you're an experienced event-goer with an extraordinary amount of patience. Not the average person who just wants to buy stuff and go.
>Not really. It was just a matter of looking behind an object in the room, which could be done with either front end. I haven't used the Wizard in a long time, but so far as I know, the only advantage Stormfront provides is adding links to the window so people know what they can interact with. Anything else is just messing with the objects in the room or searching in the right rooms.
<<yes, but you're an experienced event-goer with an extraordinary amount of patience. Not the average person who just wants to buy stuff and go.>>
Oh, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that Stormfront isn't required to find things at festivals.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
<<yes, but you're an experienced event-goer with an extraordinary amount of patience. Not the average person who just wants to buy stuff and go.>>
Oh, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that Stormfront isn't required to find things at festivals.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
>I'm just saying that Stormfront isn't required to find things at festivals.
No, but many of us have already expressed we don't feel we have the time to go through and manipulate everything in every shop to find items for sale. When a GM puts wares in an item that is not obvious in the room description, they will not have their work as appreciated as they might want.
We also have to drop some of our shared suspension of disbelief here, because those same money-grubbing merchants should, by all common-sense capitalism, only be selling their services to the people who pay the best, and not some randomly selected customer who will pay a set fee. Merchant A knows very well Lord JoeBob has a bank account that would put Scrooge McDuck's swimming pool to shame, but unless the magical spinner points at Lord JoeBob then Merchant A gets no chunk of that. In terms of strict reality, it is in Merchant A's best financial interest to cozy up to Lord JoeBob and relieve him of a hefty portion of that bank account. But that would hardly be fair to everyone else in the room. And so we have the desirable, but limited, resource of alterations and how to distribute them by a random or otherwise understood methodology.
Although, I do kind of want to run a merchant who has every single service bid on now...
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
Although, I do kind of want to run a merchant who has every single service bid on now...
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
>many of us have already expressed we don't feel we have the time
And isn't that what the meat of this discussion boils down to? Time. (and to some extent, personal choice).
We all have a finite amount of time to expend on Gemstone. That amount of time is clearly variable. Being the stay at home mother of six, I have more time during the day, less in the afternoon and evening. I've never seen the usage of lich or other inherently OOC methods (self-made or shared maps and lists, for example) as being a shortcut to getting more service work done. These things for me - and many others, I'd wager - are simply tools to be used in order to make the most of our time available to play GS.
Frankly, I'd rather spend my time in interpersonal interactions and contests and the like. Spending an inordinate amount of time wandering and wondering cuts into that, for me.
It's been said before: We all come to Gemstone for a reason, and those reasons are myriad and varied. In my opinion, one is no more valid than the other, when you come right down to it, and doing little things in an effort to "even the playing field" does nothing but put those groups at odds even more than they already were before.
You can't put the jinn back in the bottle. In my 18 years of play, GS has had many, many advances that help make it more playable in regards to time constraints, both by in-game methods and ooc methods. At the same time, there have been changes made that allow more people to play the game ($1000+ monthly charges on your credit card, anyone?) I think dismissing those advances does a disservice to the time constraints facing the bulk of players today.
And isn't that what the meat of this discussion boils down to? Time. (and to some extent, personal choice).
We all have a finite amount of time to expend on Gemstone. That amount of time is clearly variable. Being the stay at home mother of six, I have more time during the day, less in the afternoon and evening. I've never seen the usage of lich or other inherently OOC methods (self-made or shared maps and lists, for example) as being a shortcut to getting more service work done. These things for me - and many others, I'd wager - are simply tools to be used in order to make the most of our time available to play GS.
Frankly, I'd rather spend my time in interpersonal interactions and contests and the like. Spending an inordinate amount of time wandering and wondering cuts into that, for me.
It's been said before: We all come to Gemstone for a reason, and those reasons are myriad and varied. In my opinion, one is no more valid than the other, when you come right down to it, and doing little things in an effort to "even the playing field" does nothing but put those groups at odds even more than they already were before.
You can't put the jinn back in the bottle. In my 18 years of play, GS has had many, many advances that help make it more playable in regards to time constraints, both by in-game methods and ooc methods. At the same time, there have been changes made that allow more people to play the game ($1000+ monthly charges on your credit card, anyone?) I think dismissing those advances does a disservice to the time constraints facing the bulk of players today.
>>No, but many of us have already expressed we don't feel we have the time to go through and manipulate everything in every shop to find items for sale. When a GM puts wares in an item that is not obvious in the room description, they will not have their work as appreciated as they might want.
Reading this makes me really sad and upset.
~Wyrom, SGM
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Reading this makes me really sad and upset.
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I find it interesting that some say, we don't have the time to touch, feel, inspect every little thing in the shop and in the next breath say how much time is put into preparing to get the most possible alters, work, items or bang for their buck out of EG.
I spend lots of time planning and preparing for events. I am always saddened when because there was no unique special prize to be gained, participation is low.
To be clear, I am not being specific about any one person this is meant as a general statement and it could just as easily apply to me at times as anyone else.
Sometimes it helps to step back and focus on making GS something new, or renewed as the case may be. Sometimes, you have to search for it.
To stay on topic, we all need boundaries. Limits on wins are just a means of achieving boundaries.
>>Reading this makes me really sad and upset.
I can completely understand that. I specifically run Stormfront at festivals just to be able to notice objects in the rooms that are things we can interact with. All the rest of the year I run wizard for normal play. Even so, not everyone is going to go to the trouble of trying every adjective on every object in the off chance there might be something behind, or under, or in the general vicinity of that object.
That said, it is cool when you find the easter eggs. ;)
>I always assumed that expensive raffle prizes were paid for by the consortium of merchants or whomever who hosted the festival... and collected all the entry fees. Service after the raffle win should therefore be free.
I always saw it more of a ticket lottery, like football games or race entries, where there was more interest than product. You win the opportunity to purchase the limited product.
~Vanah
I always saw it more of a ticket lottery, like football games or race entries, where there was more interest than product. You win the opportunity to purchase the limited product.
~Vanah
