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<<I can answer this one easily ... because DR is combat-oriented. Look at the last round of changes, you can't even learn hiding without going to a hunting area.>>
Very not true. Can learn hiding quite easily in non-combat spots. In fact, i lock both hide and stalk not in combat, even as a ranger. But this is off topic again, so i won't go into it. DR should be expanded in non-combat areas, and empaths and other guilds would benefit from it.
I agree with Krin. I like the copying books idea.
Jal, who really needs to stop agreeing with Krin.
<<Different topic, Passionata. I asked not why you worried about learning magic, I asked why you would rely on it for your income rather than your primary skills. And I can feel your pain somewhat as far as the req's go. You have 5 ranks in secondary skills ... Rangers have 6 in a secondary skill until 75th, then it becomes 5. So I know what you are facing, trust me.>>
That wasn't a complaint, it was answering your question about why I would want to rely on my magic. I was demonstrating that an empath's magic is very nearly as strong as combat mages' magic. I am comfortable relying my magic because I recognize its strength.
Passionata
That wasn't a complaint, it was answering your question about why I would want to rely on my magic. I was demonstrating that an empath's magic is very nearly as strong as combat mages' magic. I am comfortable relying my magic because I recognize its strength.
Passionata
Forgive me, I find this funny. Empaths risk their lives daily in the fields. No one was asking for no risk here. We can only get one critter at a time, there will be time to prep the spell, we'll need adequate time to regain mana... all this will be with critters after us.
And after all that, it still makes no sense to envy empaths wanting to have some variety and growth and change in their guild. We are not wrong to ask for it or even to expect it.
Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. I think. '=}
~Amo's player
p.s. I know I started my sentence with a conjunction. That's grammatically correct or they can revoke my English MA.
And after all that, it still makes no sense to envy empaths wanting to have some variety and growth and change in their guild. We are not wrong to ask for it or even to expect it.
Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. I think. '=}
~Amo's player
p.s. I know I started my sentence with a conjunction. That's grammatically correct or they can revoke my English MA.
People have briefly discussed this already, but I'll just add my piece to the pie.
<<Why would a magic secondary Guild want to place their financial hopes on magic?>>
The Empath Guild is not your ordinary magic secondary guild. I still maintain, as do many other empaths, that the guild should be magic primary, because our survival depends primarily on our magic skills. Before the guild requirements changed, Nynnia had enough magic for 80th circle or so. Empaths are incredibly strong mages, but have little application for it outside of healing themselves. Because of this, using magic to make money would be very easy for the majority of empaths, particularly the older ones who grew up relying almost totally on spells, rather than herbs.
<<Why would a Guild which suffers the pain of others want to prosper from even a hunting-like act which might be seem as promoting the activity?>>
As Shaunn explained, the suggestion does not involve pain in any way shape or form, aside from possibly a fright (which, from the use of the "surprise" verb, does not cause pain or harm). We would like to prosper from a hunting-like act because it is a feasible, and existing, way to make money.
<<I would be pushing for more ways to make coin from Lore, myself.>>
With Tribanin's departure (which I'm really upset about for a number of reasons), I am not confident that the Lore system will be improved any time soon. We have been suggesting ways to make money through Lore for years, but no one has taken the system upon themselves long enough to change much about it. The renovation of our "combat-oriented" spells means that there is a possibility that we can alert people to the possibility of tying the Empath guild into the combat system through magic, without causing harm. I think this is far more feasible at the present moment than creating new systems for empaths to make money through lore.
Meghan
<<Why would a magic secondary Guild want to place their financial hopes on magic?>>
The Empath Guild is not your ordinary magic secondary guild. I still maintain, as do many other empaths, that the guild should be magic primary, because our survival depends primarily on our magic skills. Before the guild requirements changed, Nynnia had enough magic for 80th circle or so. Empaths are incredibly strong mages, but have little application for it outside of healing themselves. Because of this, using magic to make money would be very easy for the majority of empaths, particularly the older ones who grew up relying almost totally on spells, rather than herbs.
<<Why would a Guild which suffers the pain of others want to prosper from even a hunting-like act which might be seem as promoting the activity?>>
As Shaunn explained, the suggestion does not involve pain in any way shape or form, aside from possibly a fright (which, from the use of the "surprise" verb, does not cause pain or harm). We would like to prosper from a hunting-like act because it is a feasible, and existing, way to make money.
<<I would be pushing for more ways to make coin from Lore, myself.>>
With Tribanin's departure (which I'm really upset about for a number of reasons), I am not confident that the Lore system will be improved any time soon. We have been suggesting ways to make money through Lore for years, but no one has taken the system upon themselves long enough to change much about it. The renovation of our "combat-oriented" spells means that there is a possibility that we can alert people to the possibility of tying the Empath guild into the combat system through magic, without causing harm. I think this is far more feasible at the present moment than creating new systems for empaths to make money through lore.
Meghan
>>This is not set out to be a feasible money-making scheme, due to the minute chance of an empath getting something from a critter. <<
Why not, though? Really. Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?
I imagine that's part of the trouble. A good number of folks would likely have no trouble with empaths having equal access to the treasure. It's not like there will be that much competition. A small percentage of all empaths can even make it in the marsh amongst crocodiles and bloodworms, so other guilds need not worry about competition.
As Shaunn said (go Shaunn!) the realms is already changing (and has changed, drastically, in the past four years). Our guild wants to change with it. I won't be bashful or apologetic about wanting total access to critters' loot with a spell that was actually as successful as a warrior mages ip, lb, fs, etc.
So, i won't agree with the concession: only on rare occasions and only portion of their loot. The critter generator doesn't work that way. More crits can be gen'ed. No one is going to miss out if empaths take part in it.
Ah, well, anyone. I already know there are some who just don't agree. But doesn't make my view of this situation any less valid. Having been an empath for my primary character since '96, maybe, even, my opinion has a little creedence.
~Amo's player
Why not, though? Really. Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?
I imagine that's part of the trouble. A good number of folks would likely have no trouble with empaths having equal access to the treasure. It's not like there will be that much competition. A small percentage of all empaths can even make it in the marsh amongst crocodiles and bloodworms, so other guilds need not worry about competition.
As Shaunn said (go Shaunn!) the realms is already changing (and has changed, drastically, in the past four years). Our guild wants to change with it. I won't be bashful or apologetic about wanting total access to critters' loot with a spell that was actually as successful as a warrior mages ip, lb, fs, etc.
So, i won't agree with the concession: only on rare occasions and only portion of their loot. The critter generator doesn't work that way. More crits can be gen'ed. No one is going to miss out if empaths take part in it.
Ah, well, anyone. I already know there are some who just don't agree. But doesn't make my view of this situation any less valid. Having been an empath for my primary character since '96, maybe, even, my opinion has a little creedence.
~Amo's player
>>>>The risk is there, the difference is that the warrior mage's spell kills the critter, mine would just make him wet his pants and drop his purse from fright<<<<
I think someone else posted this but I wanted to point out that in all my hunting expereince I've never come across a critter that was holding its weapon in one hand and its treasure in the other hand.
When I get swarmed and run away in fear for my life I somehow also manage to not drop antything.
Not that I stand on either side of this issue my I have two characters one who directly relies on the treasure system(ranger) and one who relies on tips (empath).
A critter dropping its loot just doesnt seem realistic to me,and if it was then my ranger would just go out to goblins and pull out his longsword and watch the goblins run in fear and then just go behind them picking up coins and boxes.
Izzit
I think someone else posted this but I wanted to point out that in all my hunting expereince I've never come across a critter that was holding its weapon in one hand and its treasure in the other hand.
When I get swarmed and run away in fear for my life I somehow also manage to not drop antything.
Not that I stand on either side of this issue my I have two characters one who directly relies on the treasure system(ranger) and one who relies on tips (empath).
A critter dropping its loot just doesnt seem realistic to me,and if it was then my ranger would just go out to goblins and pull out his longsword and watch the goblins run in fear and then just go behind them picking up coins and boxes.
Izzit
Also, we already rely on magic. Without it, we couldn't heal. Point taken. We should be magic primary. I agree. I have more ranks in magic than lore, anyhow.
Thanks '=}
~Amo
In Response To:
<<Different topic, Passionata. I asked not why you worried about learning magic, I asked why you would rely on it for your income rather than your primary skills. And I can feel your pain somewhat as far as the req's go. You have 5 ranks in secondary skills ... Rangers have 6 in a secondary skill until 75th, then it becomes 5. So I know what you are facing, trust me.>>
>>That wasn't a complaint, it was answering your question about why I would want to rely on my magic. I was demonstrating that an empath's magic is very nearly as strong as combat mages' magic. I am comfortable relying my magic because I recognize its strength.<<
Thanks '=}
~Amo
In Response To:
<<Different topic, Passionata. I asked not why you worried about learning magic, I asked why you would rely on it for your income rather than your primary skills. And I can feel your pain somewhat as far as the req's go. You have 5 ranks in secondary skills ... Rangers have 6 in a secondary skill until 75th, then it becomes 5. So I know what you are facing, trust me.>>
>>That wasn't a complaint, it was answering your question about why I would want to rely on my magic. I was demonstrating that an empath's magic is very nearly as strong as combat mages' magic. I am comfortable relying my magic because I recognize its strength.<<
>>This is not set out to be a feasible money-making scheme, due to the minute chance of an empath getting something from a critter. <<
Not yet, but it easily could be. What is minute today will become "we want critters to drop treasure every single time" tomorrow.
<<Why not, though? Really. Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?>>
The above poster demonstrates my point rather well. You may be alright with it being only a "minute" occurance but sooner or later they'll be more and more outcries for it to be a little less minute.
<<A critter dropping its loot just doesnt seem realistic to me,and if it was then my ranger would just go out to goblins and pull out his longsword and watch the goblins run in fear and then just go behind them picking up coins and boxes.>>
My sentiments exactly. For this empath spell to make sense IG, so much about critter treasure would have to be changed. How is an empath making a creature retreat any different from a 50th barb making a goblin retreat? Nothing. But if things are changed then one retreat will cause the critter to drop treasure and the other won't. It will just cause more headaches than anything. It seems more like trying to find an easy way out. Instead, how about looking for more imaginative ideas to tie empaths into the treasure system. So far the best ideas I've heard have come from a Ranger....
Not yet, but it easily could be. What is minute today will become "we want critters to drop treasure every single time" tomorrow.
<<Why not, though? Really. Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?>>
The above poster demonstrates my point rather well. You may be alright with it being only a "minute" occurance but sooner or later they'll be more and more outcries for it to be a little less minute.
<<A critter dropping its loot just doesnt seem realistic to me,and if it was then my ranger would just go out to goblins and pull out his longsword and watch the goblins run in fear and then just go behind them picking up coins and boxes.>>
My sentiments exactly. For this empath spell to make sense IG, so much about critter treasure would have to be changed. How is an empath making a creature retreat any different from a 50th barb making a goblin retreat? Nothing. But if things are changed then one retreat will cause the critter to drop treasure and the other won't. It will just cause more headaches than anything. It seems more like trying to find an easy way out. Instead, how about looking for more imaginative ideas to tie empaths into the treasure system. So far the best ideas I've heard have come from a Ranger....
Greetings Rigby.
>Awaiting some updates from other systems. It'll be a 'real' critter guarding you. Was planning to do this even before people started suggesting it on the boards. <g>
Since the critter guarding us will be real, could it start fighting our foes, and thus get harmed in the process, so we could heal our Guarding Spirit critter?
I mean, we would get loot out of critters killed by our Guardian and we would get Transference healing our Guardian... Wouldn't that be wonderful for our Guild?
I guess it's a lot of work and coding, but there is no harm in asking, right? grins
Dorelan
>Awaiting some updates from other systems. It'll be a 'real' critter guarding you. Was planning to do this even before people started suggesting it on the boards. <g>
Since the critter guarding us will be real, could it start fighting our foes, and thus get harmed in the process, so we could heal our Guarding Spirit critter?
I mean, we would get loot out of critters killed by our Guardian and we would get Transference healing our Guardian... Wouldn't that be wonderful for our Guild?
I guess it's a lot of work and coding, but there is no harm in asking, right? grins
Dorelan
Greetings Shaunn.
>I get boxes now and then (mostly low end, or even already opened).
Here are a few hunting grounds I've been in where you should be able to find closed boxes lying on the ground because hunters left them (they already had too many, they can't pick them, they are tired of having to find a locksmith to pick them...):
- Trolls and Fendryads near Langenfirth (frequent)
- Dusk Ogres near Riverhaven (common)
- Marauders near Therenborough (common)
- Gargoyles and Death Spirits near Crossing (scarce)
- Death Spirits under the Moon Mage Guild near Crossing (rare)
- Adan'f near Shard (I didn't hunt there yet, so it's second hand experience)
I hope this helps and this reply is really meant to help, no other meaning implied in it.
Fafrahd the slinger
PS: You can also offer to buy boxes from people. I know I sold a lot of Nyads and Dryads boxes in my youth to people able to pick them when I wasn't able to. The loot found in bought boxes might be interesting enough to cover the expense of buying them.
>I get boxes now and then (mostly low end, or even already opened).
Here are a few hunting grounds I've been in where you should be able to find closed boxes lying on the ground because hunters left them (they already had too many, they can't pick them, they are tired of having to find a locksmith to pick them...):
- Trolls and Fendryads near Langenfirth (frequent)
- Dusk Ogres near Riverhaven (common)
- Marauders near Therenborough (common)
- Gargoyles and Death Spirits near Crossing (scarce)
- Death Spirits under the Moon Mage Guild near Crossing (rare)
- Adan'f near Shard (I didn't hunt there yet, so it's second hand experience)
I hope this helps and this reply is really meant to help, no other meaning implied in it.
Fafrahd the slinger
PS: You can also offer to buy boxes from people. I know I sold a lot of Nyads and Dryads boxes in my youth to people able to pick them when I wasn't able to. The loot found in bought boxes might be interesting enough to cover the expense of buying them.
Greetings Krin.
>Such as working as a scribe's assistant at the Academy.
I like your idea a lot! beams
It's close to something I suggested in the Lore topic in this category about a book creation system...
I hope you will be more lucky with your suggestion than I was with mine since it hardly interested a couple of people though I thought it was an interesting way to make Lore skills learnable and useful to make money from. Plus it would have included every Guild and raised cooperation between them...
Fafrahd the slinger
>Such as working as a scribe's assistant at the Academy.
I like your idea a lot! beams
It's close to something I suggested in the Lore topic in this category about a book creation system...
I hope you will be more lucky with your suggestion than I was with mine since it hardly interested a couple of people though I thought it was an interesting way to make Lore skills learnable and useful to make money from. Plus it would have included every Guild and raised cooperation between them...
Fafrahd the slinger
Lis,
Just to clarify my post, I was simply restating the original idea in simple terms, since it was quickly being blown out of proportion. I agree with you that the guild should have some sort of money-making scheme, but this idea, as it was presented at the beginning of this thread, was not designed to be that way. Whether I want it to be that way or not is not an issue.
<<Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?>>
The request is not being downgraded. I simply explained how the idea was originally presented. It's been upgraded (mainly by hunters who misinterpreted the original idea), but it's not been downgraded.
I don't think we need to be apologetic, and I don't think this is an issue.
<<Having been an empath for my primary character since '96, maybe, even, my opinion has a little creedence.>>
Me too. :) Not that I was really stating my opinion in that post, but still.
Meghan, running out the door to class
Just to clarify my post, I was simply restating the original idea in simple terms, since it was quickly being blown out of proportion. I agree with you that the guild should have some sort of money-making scheme, but this idea, as it was presented at the beginning of this thread, was not designed to be that way. Whether I want it to be that way or not is not an issue.
<<Why are even empaths trying to downgrade their request as if we are spreading some kind of disease that we have to be apologetic over?>>
The request is not being downgraded. I simply explained how the idea was originally presented. It's been upgraded (mainly by hunters who misinterpreted the original idea), but it's not been downgraded.
I don't think we need to be apologetic, and I don't think this is an issue.
<<Having been an empath for my primary character since '96, maybe, even, my opinion has a little creedence.>>
Me too. :) Not that I was really stating my opinion in that post, but still.
Meghan, running out the door to class
<<Here are a few hunting grounds I've been in where you should be able to find closed boxes lying on the ground because hunters left them (they already had too many, they can't pick them, they are tired of having to find a locksmith to pick them...):>>
A bit off topic, but nevertheless...
Many people do this in the Shard adan'f area and are despised as being scavengers. I'd rather seek other means of Empaths gaining money, such as through lore activities or the suggested fright spell, then promoting something that has us running around after hunters to pick up their leftovers. We aren't beggars and we should no longer be forced to rely on healing tips for money.
~Maddie
A bit off topic, but nevertheless...
Many people do this in the Shard adan'f area and are despised as being scavengers. I'd rather seek other means of Empaths gaining money, such as through lore activities or the suggested fright spell, then promoting something that has us running around after hunters to pick up their leftovers. We aren't beggars and we should no longer be forced to rely on healing tips for money.
~Maddie
>>No wonder I get boggly-eyes when I hand over a couple plats.
<chuckle> You too, huh? I keep getting Empaths that try to give me change. That's why I have taken to the habit of running as fast as I can or hiding after tipping them, so they can't give it back.
A couple of stubborn ones will chase me down to do it, but I just catch them later and drop another surprise on them. :-D
~~~Krin
who has a friend whose Empath yells at him every time he tips, heh
<chuckle> You too, huh? I keep getting Empaths that try to give me change. That's why I have taken to the habit of running as fast as I can or hiding after tipping them, so they can't give it back.
A couple of stubborn ones will chase me down to do it, but I just catch them later and drop another surprise on them. :-D
~~~Krin
who has a friend whose Empath yells at him every time he tips, heh
Greetings Maddie.
>We aren't beggars and we should no longer be forced to rely on healing tips for money.
The way I understood the Empath's concern about that (I think it was Shaunn, but I'm not sure and too lazy to check) was about the experience gained in popping boxes, hence why I also suggested buying them from hunters. I wasn't implying by no mean that Empaths should be beggars.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm picking these boxes for the experience awarded by popping them in first place, but for the loot as well. If people leave them on the ground (and I make sure they aren't hiding, but they really left them after they went another place), well, too bad for them, and the better for my bank account... I know I already made plats from coppers left on the ground by other adventurers.
Fafrahd the slinger
>We aren't beggars and we should no longer be forced to rely on healing tips for money.
The way I understood the Empath's concern about that (I think it was Shaunn, but I'm not sure and too lazy to check) was about the experience gained in popping boxes, hence why I also suggested buying them from hunters. I wasn't implying by no mean that Empaths should be beggars.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm picking these boxes for the experience awarded by popping them in first place, but for the loot as well. If people leave them on the ground (and I make sure they aren't hiding, but they really left them after they went another place), well, too bad for them, and the better for my bank account... I know I already made plats from coppers left on the ground by other adventurers.
Fafrahd the slinger
<I asked not why you worried about learning magic, I asked why you would rely on it for your income rather than your primary skills.
I'm not Passionata, and I see she's already replied to this, but I wanted to chime in on why relying on Magic is a good thing for Empaths.
I play exclusively in Plat so I don't have the massive patient base Prime empaths have; however, I do have 97 Transference. (lore, prime.) My Primary Magic is currently 121. (magic, secondary.) PM is starting to streak ahead of my Trans. Granted, I heal almost exclusively with spells, but it is still my STRONGEST ability, statistically. I'd love to see ways to utilize my "primary" ability (even though game mechanics-wise, it is secondary).
Faelyth
I'm not Passionata, and I see she's already replied to this, but I wanted to chime in on why relying on Magic is a good thing for Empaths.
I play exclusively in Plat so I don't have the massive patient base Prime empaths have; however, I do have 97 Transference. (lore, prime.) My Primary Magic is currently 121. (magic, secondary.) PM is starting to streak ahead of my Trans. Granted, I heal almost exclusively with spells, but it is still my STRONGEST ability, statistically. I'd love to see ways to utilize my "primary" ability (even though game mechanics-wise, it is secondary).
Faelyth
Prep EM 50
You close your eyes and breathe deeply, gathering energy for the Earth Meld spell.
You feel fully prepared to cast your spell.
>cast
You reach with both your hands and your senses for the wisdom of the earth...
Your spell just barely backfires.
A tingling sensation spreads through your body.
I think the Backfiring and nerve damaing needs to be looked at. I've always preped em at 50 with no problem. As a matter of fact I think this was the first time I backfired it in a long time. I had no never damage prior to casting it (no injuries period). Then all of the sudden I get never damage for casting at a prep I always cast at? On top of it, it was only a barely backfire. I can understand getting nerve damage from hopelessly backfiring, but this is a bit excessive from my POV. IS there anything that can be done to lessen the likely hood of never damage? Its bad enough I'll never use Cheeta swiftness and Bear strength because of the outrageous never damage from held mana I dont want my normal preps to give me nerve damage too. thanks
Falk
>The power levels drop too quickly for it to be a useful spell can you take a look at how fast the mana leaks after a boost?
Jent said some time ago that they're planning on reworking Compost, but that they didn't have time to it before Magic 2. Since it works and is within caps, they decided to release it then tweak it later, since all they can really do is improve the spell...
Qreyq
Jent said some time ago that they're planning on reworking Compost, but that they didn't have time to it before Magic 2. Since it works and is within caps, they decided to release it then tweak it later, since all they can really do is improve the spell...
Qreyq
I was wondering. Currently ES (warmie spell) Is recastable and can be accumilated to two hours (or more).
Sop on the other hand is recastable and accumilative but it maxes at 12 minutes.
Is there a reason Sop's time maxes so low? Is there anyway we can get this time to be increased to at least 30 minutes or more. I can cast most of my spells for 30 minutes or more. Sop is a first tirer spell and would be MUCH easier to to hold for a long period of time. Just seems like we would be able to hold the spell for longer. Thanks a bunch.
Falk
Sop on the other hand is recastable and accumilative but it maxes at 12 minutes.
Is there a reason Sop's time maxes so low? Is there anyway we can get this time to be increased to at least 30 minutes or more. I can cast most of my spells for 30 minutes or more. Sop is a first tirer spell and would be MUCH easier to to hold for a long period of time. Just seems like we would be able to hold the spell for longer. Thanks a bunch.
Falk
>Sop on the other hand is recastable and accumilative but it maxes at 12 minutes.
12 minutes isn't the global cap, Falk. That's just your cap based on your PM. I used to think 14 minutes was the cap until a friend proved me wrong. Not sure what the cap is though. Anyone know?
Phairdon, Wandyfarer
The difference between being lost and exploring is about 5 minutes and two right turns.
12 minutes isn't the global cap, Falk. That's just your cap based on your PM. I used to think 14 minutes was the cap until a friend proved me wrong. Not sure what the cap is though. Anyone know?
Phairdon, Wandyfarer
The difference between being lost and exploring is about 5 minutes and two right turns.
Barely 13 minutes though, you can stack it past the point where it says, "The extra cast doesn't seem to do any good" for a few casts and then perceive really fast and see 13 minutes, but by time the RT is up it's back to 12 minutes...and I'd love to have the duration extended on it too. Not to a ridiculous amount like 2 hours, but something reasonable like 30-45 minutes...not a big deal, just a suggestion.
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
"Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entre." -Dante Alighieri
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
"Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entre." -Dante Alighieri
One thing to consider, in the "becareful what you wish for" category, is that extending the duration of the spell past 12 minutes might entail reducing the effectiveness of the spell.
I'd much rather have the spell at the current level of effectiveness than be able to keep it up for half an hour without recasting.
If the duration can be extended without a reduction in effectiveness, then I'm all for it. If it means weakening the spell, then keep it as it is please.
-pete
I'd much rather have the spell at the current level of effectiveness than be able to keep it up for half an hour without recasting.
If the duration can be extended without a reduction in effectiveness, then I'm all for it. If it means weakening the spell, then keep it as it is please.
-pete
Cap is indeed 13 minutes. This is casting the spell capped (and yes, the mana cap is confirmed) and a hot Ranger modifier, assuming it has any effect on this spell. Doubt it, since we share the spell with Empaths and that would mean either they need something tied into it too or their version would be seriously nerfed.
Can't get any longer than 13 miutes, regardless of how much mana, how many times you stack it or how much PM you gain. Unless there's a threshhold somewhere where it suddenly starts climbing again because I haven't seen the duration go up even a second in over 30 ranks of PM.
~~~Krin
Can't get any longer than 13 miutes, regardless of how much mana, how many times you stack it or how much PM you gain. Unless there's a threshhold somewhere where it suddenly starts climbing again because I haven't seen the duration go up even a second in over 30 ranks of PM.
~~~Krin
I agree... I'm happy with the benefits of SoP...plus, it isn't really a mana hog.
It would be a sad thing to have SoP be downgraded just to make it last longer... i don't think ES is as nice as SoP...but it's been a while since I've tested ES.
One request i do have, if it's possible...make SoP teach a bit more magic if you can pump more mana into it?
Thanks for reading my ideas here '=}
~Amorisse
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my dress?"
For more information on empaths who shift, go to: http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
It would be a sad thing to have SoP be downgraded just to make it last longer... i don't think ES is as nice as SoP...but it's been a while since I've tested ES.
One request i do have, if it's possible...make SoP teach a bit more magic if you can pump more mana into it?
Thanks for reading my ideas here '=}
~Amorisse
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my dress?"
For more information on empaths who shift, go to: http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
Not that much, but enough that I can notice an improvement in my ease of evading... you still need to be able to evade the critters...so you won't go from can't evade to can...but it does help me evade more successfully...as opposed to just barely managing to get out of the way...more often.
I combine that with parrying and use of hide/retreat, and occassionally other helper spells when needed...it's a nice boost. Nothing to rely on solely, but a nice boast.
For me, SoP has two major benefits besides the mild boost to evasion: it is a prereq to a spell I like a lot and it is the ONLY empath spell I that teaches magic when i recast it on a regular basis. Healing spells all require a wound to heal to get experience...and GoL and Regen don't seem to give much experience if I recast them over a currently existing cast.
I do hope for more ways to practice magic at beyond savant levels for empaths... meanwhile, SoP is pretty much it besides getting wounded and healing myself.
If you are an empath, I will recommend it without hesitation...it's a must have for any empath who wants to venture beyond the guild, IMHO.
If you're a ranger, I think you'll need to look at your other spells...is SoP a prereq for any of them? If I was a ranger, I can think of a bunch of spells I'd like to have: definitely HB would be one... maybe SoP, too ;)
~Lis
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my dress?" ~Dorothy
For more information on empaths who shift, go to:
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
I combine that with parrying and use of hide/retreat, and occassionally other helper spells when needed...it's a nice boost. Nothing to rely on solely, but a nice boast.
For me, SoP has two major benefits besides the mild boost to evasion: it is a prereq to a spell I like a lot and it is the ONLY empath spell I that teaches magic when i recast it on a regular basis. Healing spells all require a wound to heal to get experience...and GoL and Regen don't seem to give much experience if I recast them over a currently existing cast.
I do hope for more ways to practice magic at beyond savant levels for empaths... meanwhile, SoP is pretty much it besides getting wounded and healing myself.
If you are an empath, I will recommend it without hesitation...it's a must have for any empath who wants to venture beyond the guild, IMHO.
If you're a ranger, I think you'll need to look at your other spells...is SoP a prereq for any of them? If I was a ranger, I can think of a bunch of spells I'd like to have: definitely HB would be one... maybe SoP, too ;)
~Lis
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my dress?" ~Dorothy
For more information on empaths who shift, go to:
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
I think as a Ranger, SoP is still a must have. Especially at 5th circle. Unless you can handle sitting still long enough to listen to a lot of boring classes, you really can't handle anything else. It teaches great at low levels and so I still recommend it as the first ranger spell to take. For me though, I haven't found the evasion bonus enough to bother with. Perhaps it becomes more effective at higher skill levels though.
Mole
Not much call for a barbarian-hairdresser, I expect, I mean, no-one wants a shampoo-and-beheading..
Mole
Not much call for a barbarian-hairdresser, I expect, I mean, no-one wants a shampoo-and-beheading..
>I think as a Ranger, SoP is still a must have. Especially at 5th circle. Unless you can handle sitting still long enough to listen to a lot of boring classes, you really can't handle anything else. It teaches great at low levels and so I still recommend it as the first ranger spell to take. For me though, I haven't found the evasion bonus enough to bother with. Perhaps it becomes more effective at higher skill levels though.
If I was a young ranger I'ld take a long look at other baseline spells that lead me further up the spell tree.
SOP is pretty much a dead slot non pre-req and when you get a slot every 4th after the first 5th I don't think it's ability to teach justifies getting it. I'ld go for a spell thats going to do more than that for me.
Evasion boost is noticable but wasn't enough for me. If swarm still had it's turn on ya drawbacks or area castability it would be worthwhile for me. Absent that I prefer SOTT for my defensive bonus.
I can definitely see why empaths would like it.
Arrys
If I was a young ranger I'ld take a long look at other baseline spells that lead me further up the spell tree.
SOP is pretty much a dead slot non pre-req and when you get a slot every 4th after the first 5th I don't think it's ability to teach justifies getting it. I'ld go for a spell thats going to do more than that for me.
Evasion boost is noticable but wasn't enough for me. If swarm still had it's turn on ya drawbacks or area castability it would be worthwhile for me. Absent that I prefer SOTT for my defensive bonus.
I can definitely see why empaths would like it.
Arrys
Well considering I'm not a "young ranger" all your input has leaved me to believe that SOP not worth it. I have SOTT, which is very nice, and allows me to dance with 3 lecuros all day long and never get touched.
I just have 5 spell slots free, and was trying to figure what more to get.
Thanks,
Q
I just have 5 spell slots free, and was trying to figure what more to get.
Thanks,
Q
>Not that much, but enough that I can notice an improvement in my ease of evading... you still need to be able to evade the critters...so you won't go from can't evade to can...but it does help me evade more successfully...as opposed to just barely managing to get out of the way...more often.
I found that if you're right on the virge of being able to hunt something then SOP is very useful. When I first started hunting Forest Genis they were still a bit above my level and would get some nice hits on me at melee. I noticed that with SOP up this dropped dramatically. Combine that with SOTT and you'll have a nice boost to evasion.
Sevo
I found that if you're right on the virge of being able to hunt something then SOP is very useful. When I first started hunting Forest Genis they were still a bit above my level and would get some nice hits on me at melee. I noticed that with SOP up this dropped dramatically. Combine that with SOTT and you'll have a nice boost to evasion.
Sevo
