Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
>Guild ala carte
An interesting idea for sure. Some guild are starting to seem quite rigidly defined and cookie cutter. I do hope that bit based experience will make your suggestion, seem less attractive as specialization will be less punished than under the current system. I for one am looking forward to it.
--
Ranger Hanryu _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, Sword of House Calibanor
You thumb a platinum coin stamped with large letters that read "IN SSRA WE TRUST"
That... would be so amazing. If I could Snipe and BS that would be the most amazing thing I ever experienced in DR. Hands down. Best release of a life time.
~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Ego Warrior
~I am better than you, or so I am told.
"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."
~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Ego Warrior
~I am better than you, or so I am told.
"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."
I guess I'll chime in on the other side, since the feedback seems to be pretty positive thus far...
I don't like this idea for several reasons.
One; it's terribly open to abuse. Being able to choose which skills are primary/secondary/tertiary in particular. I could choose ten extremely easy to train skills and choose them for my tertiaries and ten extremely hard to train skills and choose them for my primaries, and min/max till the cows come home.
Two; guilds exist as actual in-game organizations, not just entries on a stat sheet. They have guildhalls and guildleaders, and they have histories and reasons for existing. Being able to create your own guild just because you don't like any of the current guilds would cheapen the very meaning of the guilds themselves.
Three; nobody in the "Create Your Own Guild" Guild should get access to guild-specific abilities, no matter how high-circle they end up becoming. The guild-specific abilities are guild-specific for a reason, namely, they're taught only by the leaders of that guild. Somebody creating their own guild shouldn't get access to any abilities a commoner wouldn't have because, if not a guildleader, where are they learning these abilities from?
If you want to follow your own training path, you can do so from a guild. If you want maximum flexibility, you can do so as a commoner. If you want commoners to be less gimped, a better idea would be to suggest ways of making them less gimped, rather than new ways somebody can abandon commonerdom.
For instance: Yes, it sucks that commoners have to work so hard for TDPs and get so few of them. It'd be nice if commoners had some way of gaining TDPs besides ranking skills and circling (which they can't do). Quest-based maybe?
Other mechanical contrivances directed at commoners should go away. The not being able to buy stuff until a certain number of ranks thing, for instance. Nobody needs that kind of hand-holding.
What we don't need is a system to make your own guild specially tailored to yourself. Literally years go into planning the abilities, checks, and balances of each new guild in DR, determining what skills and abilities should go where... And those years are very well-spent.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
I don't like this idea for several reasons.
One; it's terribly open to abuse. Being able to choose which skills are primary/secondary/tertiary in particular. I could choose ten extremely easy to train skills and choose them for my tertiaries and ten extremely hard to train skills and choose them for my primaries, and min/max till the cows come home.
Two; guilds exist as actual in-game organizations, not just entries on a stat sheet. They have guildhalls and guildleaders, and they have histories and reasons for existing. Being able to create your own guild just because you don't like any of the current guilds would cheapen the very meaning of the guilds themselves.
Three; nobody in the "Create Your Own Guild" Guild should get access to guild-specific abilities, no matter how high-circle they end up becoming. The guild-specific abilities are guild-specific for a reason, namely, they're taught only by the leaders of that guild. Somebody creating their own guild shouldn't get access to any abilities a commoner wouldn't have because, if not a guildleader, where are they learning these abilities from?
If you want to follow your own training path, you can do so from a guild. If you want maximum flexibility, you can do so as a commoner. If you want commoners to be less gimped, a better idea would be to suggest ways of making them less gimped, rather than new ways somebody can abandon commonerdom.
For instance: Yes, it sucks that commoners have to work so hard for TDPs and get so few of them. It'd be nice if commoners had some way of gaining TDPs besides ranking skills and circling (which they can't do). Quest-based maybe?
Other mechanical contrivances directed at commoners should go away. The not being able to buy stuff until a certain number of ranks thing, for instance. Nobody needs that kind of hand-holding.
What we don't need is a system to make your own guild specially tailored to yourself. Literally years go into planning the abilities, checks, and balances of each new guild in DR, determining what skills and abilities should go where... And those years are very well-spent.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
>>Third; nobody in the "Create Your Own Guild" Guild should get access to guild-specific abilities, no matter how high-circle they end up becoming. The guild-specific abilities are guild-specific for a reason, namely, they're taught only by the leaders of that guild. Somebody creating their own guild shouldn't get access to any abilities a commoner wouldn't have because, if not a guildleader, where are they learning these abilities from?
Some abilities lend themselves extremely well to "lone wolf"-ism. While guilded would obviously learn these things faster and earlier, being able to spend a year just examining your own actions should be enough to start seeing results. Maybe something like double or triple the requirements.
J'Lo, no that other one
Some abilities lend themselves extremely well to "lone wolf"-ism. While guilded would obviously learn these things faster and earlier, being able to spend a year just examining your own actions should be enough to start seeing results. Maybe something like double or triple the requirements.
J'Lo, no that other one
The idea strikes me as nothing more than the purest form of powergaming. Choose all the advantages you want while minimizing disadvantages.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
>>One; it's terribly open to abuse. Being able to choose which skills are primary/secondary/tertiary in particular. I could choose ten extremely easy to train skills and choose them for my tertiaries and ten extremely hard to train skills and choose them for my primaries, and min/max till the cows come home.
Any system can and will be abused. I figure the min/maxers would jump at this but after working up to 20 or 30 circles and only having an ability or two they'd get tired of it all and move on. The only ones that would stick around would be the brute force goons and well, min/maxing is actually rather in character for such folks. And, of course those that have creative character ideas.
>>Two; guilds exist as actual in-game organizations, not just entries on a stat sheet. They have guildhalls and guildleaders, and they have histories and reasons for existing. Being able to create your own guild just because you don't like any of the current guilds would cheapen the very meaning of the guilds themselves.
Unforchantly they are used just as entries on a stat sheet. The halls are just places to sit and script. Guilds have already been cheapened by this which is mostly caused by having to train skills that have nothing to do with how your character is actually played.
>>Three; nobody in the "Create Your Own Guild" Guild should get access to guild-specific abilities, no matter how high-circle they end up becoming. The guild-specific abilities are guild-specific for a reason, namely, they're taught only by the leaders of that guild. Somebody creating their own guild shouldn't get access to any abilities a commoner wouldn't have because, if not a guildleader, where are they learning these abilities from?
Read the blackmarket section of my original post again. It wouldn't be ease or cheap and come shopping to often and they chase you off for fear of bringing too much attention to them.
NOW, if we could just do away with TDP's and make those stats learned like skills are, by just doing them...well then, forget everything I've said and I'll be happy as a commoner. Well, except the blackmarket idea. I'm getting rather fond of that one.
Any system can and will be abused. I figure the min/maxers would jump at this but after working up to 20 or 30 circles and only having an ability or two they'd get tired of it all and move on. The only ones that would stick around would be the brute force goons and well, min/maxing is actually rather in character for such folks. And, of course those that have creative character ideas.
>>Two; guilds exist as actual in-game organizations, not just entries on a stat sheet. They have guildhalls and guildleaders, and they have histories and reasons for existing. Being able to create your own guild just because you don't like any of the current guilds would cheapen the very meaning of the guilds themselves.
Unforchantly they are used just as entries on a stat sheet. The halls are just places to sit and script. Guilds have already been cheapened by this which is mostly caused by having to train skills that have nothing to do with how your character is actually played.
>>Three; nobody in the "Create Your Own Guild" Guild should get access to guild-specific abilities, no matter how high-circle they end up becoming. The guild-specific abilities are guild-specific for a reason, namely, they're taught only by the leaders of that guild. Somebody creating their own guild shouldn't get access to any abilities a commoner wouldn't have because, if not a guildleader, where are they learning these abilities from?
Read the blackmarket section of my original post again. It wouldn't be ease or cheap and come shopping to often and they chase you off for fear of bringing too much attention to them.
NOW, if we could just do away with TDP's and make those stats learned like skills are, by just doing them...well then, forget everything I've said and I'll be happy as a commoner. Well, except the blackmarket idea. I'm getting rather fond of that one.
>>so you could theoretically make a barb/wm/thief/ranger that could run trails, backstab and cast chain lightning, and berserk.
Sure.
First to get chain lighting you get GZ as your first spell.
Second you get Arc Light at circle 12. (Min WM req is circle 2. For this, you add 10 circles to that. You don't take any spells/abilities at circle 10 and wait to 12.)
Third you take Lighting Bolt at circle 35. (WM min is circle 25. You take nothing at 30 and wait to 35.)
Fourth you take Chain lighting at 50th circle. (WM min is 40th. You take some other spell/ability at 40th and wait to 50th to get this.)
NOW! you can start working up the ladders again for the next ability. So, if you want a 100th-200th circle character that can ONLY run trails, backstab, cast chain lighting, and berserk....then there you go.
Sure.
First to get chain lighting you get GZ as your first spell.
Second you get Arc Light at circle 12. (Min WM req is circle 2. For this, you add 10 circles to that. You don't take any spells/abilities at circle 10 and wait to 12.)
Third you take Lighting Bolt at circle 35. (WM min is circle 25. You take nothing at 30 and wait to 35.)
Fourth you take Chain lighting at 50th circle. (WM min is 40th. You take some other spell/ability at 40th and wait to 50th to get this.)
NOW! you can start working up the ladders again for the next ability. So, if you want a 100th-200th circle character that can ONLY run trails, backstab, cast chain lighting, and berserk....then there you go.
Thats cool by me. I use BS and snipe to train. Thats all I want it for. So if I gotta wait till 50th, whatever its worth it for me to not be forced to train stealing, locks and disarm.
~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Ego Warrior
~I am better than you, or so I am told.
"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."
~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Ego Warrior
~I am better than you, or so I am told.
"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."
There just needs to be a way for commoners to by a viable "guild" option... they need a place to go to "circle" and gain tdps and even some commoner-only versions of certain abilities--but they should not get any magics (sorry...but commoners should be common). On the other hand, they should be able to learn to light a burning object and toss it at someone... (although, I think thieves should also have the ability to make bombs) Not quite fireshard spell, just the commoner version of it.
Commoners have more disadvantages than advantages...a way for them to circle and get tdps and a few special abilities of their own would at least make them more viable to play for those die-hard RPers out there. I have a commoner that I trained up a bit....but I eventually got frustrated with his lack of stamina, strength, and concentration.
Lis
Commoners have more disadvantages than advantages...a way for them to circle and get tdps and a few special abilities of their own would at least make them more viable to play for those die-hard RPers out there. I have a commoner that I trained up a bit....but I eventually got frustrated with his lack of stamina, strength, and concentration.
Lis
They're commoners, not the Commoner's Guild. I think it's great that one doesn't have to choose a guild at character creation, but playing as an unguilded commoner is a deliberate sacrafice, a choice not to participate in the guild system (and recall that it has been said that guild is as integral to your character's identity as race).
Commoners don't get skillset perks because they have no skillsets. They learn everything at a "secondary" rate, but they have no secondary skillsets because they have no primary skillset for the others to be secondary to, because they are not in a guild.
I think it's great that people choose to play commoners as a role-playing decision, but I don't think that we need to create elaborate systems to allow them to do anything that a guilded character can do.
---
PSA - Sakhara's definition of RP is erroneous
Commoners don't get skillset perks because they have no skillsets. They learn everything at a "secondary" rate, but they have no secondary skillsets because they have no primary skillset for the others to be secondary to, because they are not in a guild.
I think it's great that people choose to play commoners as a role-playing decision, but I don't think that we need to create elaborate systems to allow them to do anything that a guilded character can do.
---
PSA - Sakhara's definition of RP is erroneous
The subject may have drifted from my original post but since I started the thread... I'm talking about giving characters a choice of not being commoners without having to join an existing guild. Commoners are commoners. Those that would join my suggested system would drop their commoner status and become freelance-whatevers.
Freelance-whatevers are commoners. If you don't want to follow the policies and priorities of any of the existing guilds, then you don't have to join any guild. What I'd like to see is some way of making commoners more viable. Not necessarily getting the abilities of current guilds, I don't think that should be the case... But there should be some way for them to more easily get TDPs, because there's no real reason someone in a guild should necessarily have more time to train than someone who isn't in a guild. I just can't really think of any way to do that.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
Problem with giving commoners more TDPs (ie to replace circling TDPs) is that the "smart move" would then become to play the game as a commoner to grab those extra TDPs and put off joining a guild for a long time. I could see something like little quests that award a set number of TDPs. An NPC might have you track someone down and give them a message, or kill a beast somewhere, and you'd be awarded some TDPs based on the difficulty of the quest. This way it'd be open to all characters.
I think one way to make commoners more playable would be to greatly expand the feat system, and create more abilities based off of pure ranks and/or primary/secondary/tertiary.
Another thing that might help is that "profession system" that we heard about during the buildup to DR2. Theoretically you could roll up a commoner and just go about your chosen profession in an unguilded manner. I'm sure this system is coming... soon.
~Caneghem Urathi
I think one way to make commoners more playable would be to greatly expand the feat system, and create more abilities based off of pure ranks and/or primary/secondary/tertiary.
Another thing that might help is that "profession system" that we heard about during the buildup to DR2. Theoretically you could roll up a commoner and just go about your chosen profession in an unguilded manner. I'm sure this system is coming... soon.
~Caneghem Urathi
>>Freelance-whatevers are commoners
No. Commoners are the several million people that live in Elanthia that we never actually see except in room descriptions or room messaging. Your character who desides to do something with his life beyond the norm (that being living as a commoner) but doesn't want to abide or limit themselves by a single guild are freelancers. Infact, Freelance and freelancer are the PERFECT terms to use here.
..from Dictionary.com
free?lance
n. also free lance
1. A person who sells services to employers without a long-term commitment to any of them.
3. An uncommitted independent, as in politics or social life.
3. A medieval mercenary.
#3 being the most interesting. The PC Commoner right now is in some limbo between the faceless masses and a true freelancer, able to raise there voice over the throng but rarely able to advance beyond them.
No. Commoners are the several million people that live in Elanthia that we never actually see except in room descriptions or room messaging. Your character who desides to do something with his life beyond the norm (that being living as a commoner) but doesn't want to abide or limit themselves by a single guild are freelancers. Infact, Freelance and freelancer are the PERFECT terms to use here.
..from Dictionary.com
free?lance
n. also free lance
1. A person who sells services to employers without a long-term commitment to any of them.
3. An uncommitted independent, as in politics or social life.
3. A medieval mercenary.
#3 being the most interesting. The PC Commoner right now is in some limbo between the faceless masses and a true freelancer, able to raise there voice over the throng but rarely able to advance beyond them.
