Ok, READ what I wrote.

<<I don't see too many armor shops that sell plate that renders the wearer invisble, >>
<<(polo cloak, RF rune...)>>
(Looks for the word armor in there, and I believe those are availble to everyone.)

<<or weaponsmiths that create weapons you summon on command>>
<<Gnome gauntlets, forged weapons with super strenth. Just carry a few in your backpack.>>
Let's see - thats an easy one - My Moonblade does not add encumbrance to carry a dozen stuffed in my pack.

<<Maybe you could lean away from the whole aspect of combat when making some of your points>>
<<O.k Let's do some testing with EM, Is it more effective rank for rank, mana for mana than shadows is?>>
I would be happy to. In fact, I will do that this evening, and post my results tomorrow.

<<Justifying anything in the Moon Mage guild when it comes to combat related in guild vs guild comparisons, there will be negatives, and rightly so.>>

<<I know many fairly high ranking moon mages who adore combat, and just because you don't see us as fighters doesn't mean we can't, or that we have to hunt (whether player or creature) With a disadvantage compared to almost all other guilds.>>

<Inhales>
It isn't a matter of how I see anything. I love to go hunting myself. That does not make a difference in how this guild was set up. It was, is, and always will be a non-combat guild. Yes, you can hunt to your hearts desire, but not everyone feels that way. Several are quite content with not having to. That does not make either any less of a Moon Mage than the other. You can learn what ever is out there for you to learn, and at a speed you prefer. But there has to be a reason why you chose Moon Magic, instead of War Mage, or Ranger. For some, it may be because they do not require weapons to circle, so therefore they can learn as they see fit. Or because they can learn their weapons, and have a few decent back up spells to compliment their combat. No matter what the reason, YOU can be whatever type of guild member you want. But, in order to go from what the basic precepts of that guild are, you are going to have to deal with certain areas you may not find agreeable. Does that mean the guild should change because some feel it should? No, it doesn't. No guild can be made to fill all the wants and needs of every player. Thats why there is a basic starting point, a few rules and "perks" for being a member you have to deal with, but the rest is up to you.

Just because you see something as unbalancing, or unfair, does not necessarily make it so. Sometimes there are things behind what you see, that balance out a spell, or skill, that you, or even those using it may not realize. Whether this is the case or not, everyone tries to make sure everything is balanced to the rest of the game. If every spell the rangers had was super pumped, then I know not only myself, but other guild GM's would be saying "Hold on!". Same with spells that supposedly "copy" one another. If a guild that dabbles in magic lies so close to a guild where magic is there forte`, would they not seek to learn how to enhance their skills, and it does become highly likely that some spells will seem to copy one another in effect, but the basics behind the spell is different. Different mana, different reqs in order to cast, etc can all make a difference in that spell.

Should a ranger be as powerful with 400 ranks in primary as a Mage? Powerful yes. Should they know the nuances of that magic as well as the mage - No. Which is why we have a much heavier compliment of spells than they do. Now, should a mage be able to skin as well as a ranger with equal ranks in skinning? No - a mage is self taught in these regards (or taught by another) and in comparison to a guild history's worth of knowledge
to an individual, or individuals attempts to teach, you will not know every nuances of that skill. Rangers live their lives in the wilds, and are REQUIRED to know a certain amount. You are allowed to learn it, and more if you wish, but you are not forced into learning as much as they are. Same with combat. It is a skill you may have the most deeply seated desire to learn, but as the game sees it, you are a mage at heart, and chose to follow the paramaters of such.

This being a game, making it identical to real life where anyone can learn anything as well as anyone else, and perform that duty is difficult to say the least. Being we are not necessarily broken into guilds, with spells, or poweres bestowed on use for our choice, makes little difference. I am the best at what I do where I work. It is not where my heart is, but I still feel as a job, i should do my best at it. Now, there are others who have actualy training, where in order to pass they had to maintain certain levels of knowledge of what they were taught. Now the average of this group of trained individuals can probably run circle around me. Now I can take it upon myself to learn all I can about it, and possibly pass the same tests they did, and perhaps even perform better than they. But they learned from prior knowledge, passed down from experimentation, and experience. In their training, they may have heard some obscure reference that in the real world, many may not realize. We can both perform the same job, at the same speed, and to anyone else, or maybe to one another we appear as equals. But there is still that added nuance that I never read about, or saw, that they know that gives them their edge. It's not a complex situation, and it happens every single day, and has for ages.

I know this probably won't change your view, but I hope you will read and consider what I have said. There is truth in it, and it applies in everything IG and out.

Trib <exhales> :)