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Alright, so I am just venting a little frustration but bear with me.
Yesterday I was hunting in a group with a friend and using my throwing hammer from the Ghost Ship quest. After I killed the last critter I had not yet picked up my hammer and my friend decided to move rooms. After 15-20 seconds I realized I didn't have the hammer in my hand and went back to the room to find an empty room.
Today I assisted to see if some sympathetic GM would replace my hammer. I was somewhat astonished to receive the following response:
GM: Alright, I've checked the logs. Unfortunately we're not going to be able to replace your hammer for you, as the scenario you've described is an intended danger of using thrown weapons while hunting.
GM: The possibility of losing thrown weapons is inherent to the system and is one of the downsides to using the weapons.
GM: The janitor can pick up items on the ground at any point. It's unfortunate but everything here is working properly and as such I can't replace the hammer. If you have concerns about this aspect of thrown weapons then I would recommend bringing them up on the forums.
Now, I would really appreciate some sort of clear and concise explanation of how the janitor mechanics are an "intended danger" of using thrown weapons. If I had remained in the room I would have received ample warning that the janitor was going to be coming through and taking everything, but when you leave a room, no warning is given, everything is just taken. So if I had not left the room I would still have a hammer.
It seems to me that the janitor works the way it does because telling what objects on the ground need to be destroyed and which don't is a difficult thing to do. I understand how losing arrows and bolts in a similar manner might be in "intended danger" because at the absolute worst, an arrow costs something like 3 platinum for a top quality fletched arrow. My hammer has an approximate auctionable value of 250 platinums. I don't know anyone that would fire an arrow worth 250 platinums if they thought there was an expectation by the game developers that the janitor would inevitably walk off with it.
I don't want to sound like I'm whining, and I don't expect this post to get me my hammer returned to me, but I really do think this is a flaw in the mechanics of how and what gets cleaned by the janitor and I think in the future it should be entirely reasonable to have weapons replaced. I may be way off base here, so someone post an opposing view if you think this is an unreasonable request.
yours truly,
Bromus Kefir, the hammerless.
Unfortunately a lot of people are losing thrown weapons.
Needless to say, until this is fixed, any special thrown weapons shouldn't be used if one wishes to keep them. That is sad because I do have a few among my brood that I would like to use very much.
My deepest sympathies, for what it's worth.
Ryeka and the brood
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Needless to say, until this is fixed, any special thrown weapons shouldn't be used if one wishes to keep them. That is sad because I do have a few among my brood that I would like to use very much.
My deepest sympathies, for what it's worth.
Ryeka and the brood
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Part of my recurring rant about the inequity of Thrown Weapon and related Fest Crossbow bolts- everytime I ask why we can't get Throwns and bolts in game that are comparable to forged or player made weapons and arrows there is a thundering silence. The festival throwing hammers and pulzones/quads are no more powerful than existing player made bastard swords or top end arrows, yet never a word.
I wouldn't have a problem with the mechanics if there was an accessible supply of top end throwns and pulzones, instead the prices of those go up and up and up, while player made weapons stay steady.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
I wouldn't have a problem with the mechanics if there was an accessible supply of top end throwns and pulzones, instead the prices of those go up and up and up, while player made weapons stay steady.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
>>It seems to me that the janitor works the way it does because telling what objects on the ground need to be destroyed and which don't is a difficult thing to do. I understand how losing arrows and bolts in a similar manner might be in "intended danger" because at the absolute worst, an arrow costs something like 3 platinum for a top quality fletched arrow. My hammer has an approximate auctionable value of 250 platinums. I don't know anyone that would fire an arrow worth 250 platinums if they thought there was an expectation by the game developers that the janitor would inevitably walk off with it.
In direct response to this particular section, directly from news 5 5...
There is never a reason to put your items on the ground, even for a second, except to get rid of them (unless the item was designed to be used on the ground, like a Wayerd Pyramid or a picnic basket). If something of yours gets put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible. However, if the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately, if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way. All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be authorized for replacement. We apologize for any inconveniences associated with the system, but hope you understand the need for its existence.
Important excerpts to note...
If something of yours gets put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible.
and
However, if the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately, if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way. All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be authorized for replacement.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
In direct response to this particular section, directly from news 5 5...
There is never a reason to put your items on the ground, even for a second, except to get rid of them (unless the item was designed to be used on the ground, like a Wayerd Pyramid or a picnic basket). If something of yours gets put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible. However, if the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately, if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way. All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be authorized for replacement. We apologize for any inconveniences associated with the system, but hope you understand the need for its existence.
Important excerpts to note...
If something of yours gets put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible.
and
However, if the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately, if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way. All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be authorized for replacement.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
I appreciate your quick response Oolan, but it doesn't really explain why this is the accepted policy. I don't see any sort of roll play value to having weapons disappear, nor do I see it serving a particular purpose in abstracting some real world phenomenon to the Elanthian environment. I might even say it disrupts the roll playing when your weapon disappears. I guess I don't understand the need for its existance as it relates to destroying items that were in the hands of a player seconds prior to being cleaned.
Bromus
Bromus
There are multiple types of janitors, and the one that took your weapon ignores timers/death mechanics/all the stuff GMs talk about protecting your items, or takes the items with timers because the timer only counts if you're in the room?
At least that has been my experience in the responses in the past and the GMs have been unwilling or unable to change it.
Yes there is a good reason to have such a janitor, I just don't agree that it should apply to items that we're told specifically have a timer meant to prevent loss, even if the person is not in the same room.
I am --- Navak
At least that has been my experience in the responses in the past and the GMs have been unwilling or unable to change it.
Yes there is a good reason to have such a janitor, I just don't agree that it should apply to items that we're told specifically have a timer meant to prevent loss, even if the person is not in the same room.
I am --- Navak
Boar Clan has a non-lodging throwing hammer that does the same impact damages as a fest thrown only weighs 27 stones more. It isn't the ideal solution but, with enough strength, I can achieve the same damage spectrum and still get minimum RT. It's a functional solution.
Until then, I bought a greatsword sheath and carry around four golden tasseled spears from Theren. The weight is very manageable to me. The spears weigh 40 stones and do heavy impact. The only difference between them and a square-faced throwing hammer is that they lodge. I've found, however, that this just provides additional brawling experience.
I would advise you to seek your own solutions. Between throwing blades, Boar Clan hammers, spears etc. thrown is very trainable without festival equipment.
I agree that the janitor is still ridiculous, but I no longer think it necessary to wait for Simu to change the janitor mechanics to play my HT primary Barbarian.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
Until then, I bought a greatsword sheath and carry around four golden tasseled spears from Theren. The weight is very manageable to me. The spears weigh 40 stones and do heavy impact. The only difference between them and a square-faced throwing hammer is that they lodge. I've found, however, that this just provides additional brawling experience.
I would advise you to seek your own solutions. Between throwing blades, Boar Clan hammers, spears etc. thrown is very trainable without festival equipment.
I agree that the janitor is still ridiculous, but I no longer think it necessary to wait for Simu to change the janitor mechanics to play my HT primary Barbarian.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
>>Oolan, are you suggesting that there isn't currently an issue with thrown weapons getting taken by the janitor? Because it seems like any recently used/touched item should have a minimum of x seconds of protection, and this doesn't seem to be the case.
I believe I've commented before that the janitor really isn't my area and that I'm not commenting one way or the other. He was specifically asking about how the GM that ruled on it could possibly say that this was intended. So I directed him to news 5 5 which clearly states that anything left on the ground for any reason should be immediately picked up if you want it. He didn't immediately pick up the thrown hammer and then walked away from it. By the way, I'm also not even remotely in position to change the policy, nor am I arguing for or against it, I'm simply stating what it currently is.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
I believe I've commented before that the janitor really isn't my area and that I'm not commenting one way or the other. He was specifically asking about how the GM that ruled on it could possibly say that this was intended. So I directed him to news 5 5 which clearly states that anything left on the ground for any reason should be immediately picked up if you want it. He didn't immediately pick up the thrown hammer and then walked away from it. By the way, I'm also not even remotely in position to change the policy, nor am I arguing for or against it, I'm simply stating what it currently is.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
"Boar Clan has a non-lodging throwing hammer that does the same impact damages as a fest thrown only weighs 27 stones more. It isn't the ideal solution but, with enough strength, I can achieve the same damage spectrum and still get minimum RT. It's a functional solution."
I haven't tried the Boar Clan hammer, but I do carry a throwing hammer that is 20 stones more than the square faced and does less damage. Certainly useable though even with more than 50 strength and 40 stamina the fatigue hit is substantial. The square faced hammer is really useable by characters who would be able to use say a 32 stone bastard sword reasonably.
"Until then, I bought a greatsword sheath and carry around four golden tasseled spears from Theren. The weight is very manageable to me. The spears weigh 40 stones and do heavy impact. The only difference between them and a square-faced throwing hammer is that they lodge. I've found, however, that this just provides additional brawling experience."
I carry around 2 spears right now. Once they get lodged I finish off with my hammer. There is a difference in damage though- difference between pierced and blunt.
"I would advise you to seek your own solutions. Between throwing blades, Boar Clan hammers, spears etc. thrown is very trainable without festival equipment."
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Bromus suggested he couldn't train HT, but that the janitor mechanics combined with the ridiculous scarcity of forged like HT means that it is all to easy to be literally throwing away a 250 platinum weapon- which is designed to be thrown.
I have adjusted to no longer having any more square faced hammers. HT is still not only trainable but is a viable weapon with basically store bought weapons. However still don't know why HT users have to deal with conditions like that when a long bow user can just go pay a plat or two for an arrow that does as much damage.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
I haven't tried the Boar Clan hammer, but I do carry a throwing hammer that is 20 stones more than the square faced and does less damage. Certainly useable though even with more than 50 strength and 40 stamina the fatigue hit is substantial. The square faced hammer is really useable by characters who would be able to use say a 32 stone bastard sword reasonably.
"Until then, I bought a greatsword sheath and carry around four golden tasseled spears from Theren. The weight is very manageable to me. The spears weigh 40 stones and do heavy impact. The only difference between them and a square-faced throwing hammer is that they lodge. I've found, however, that this just provides additional brawling experience."
I carry around 2 spears right now. Once they get lodged I finish off with my hammer. There is a difference in damage though- difference between pierced and blunt.
"I would advise you to seek your own solutions. Between throwing blades, Boar Clan hammers, spears etc. thrown is very trainable without festival equipment."
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Bromus suggested he couldn't train HT, but that the janitor mechanics combined with the ridiculous scarcity of forged like HT means that it is all to easy to be literally throwing away a 250 platinum weapon- which is designed to be thrown.
I have adjusted to no longer having any more square faced hammers. HT is still not only trainable but is a viable weapon with basically store bought weapons. However still don't know why HT users have to deal with conditions like that when a long bow user can just go pay a plat or two for an arrow that does as much damage.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
My suggestion would be to allow a certain number of items that we could keep an eye on if they're on the ground (e.g., pyramids, thrown items). For example:
>WATCH bola
You begin to keep a careful eye on the copper-chain bola.
>drop bola
You drop your copper-chain bola.
>e
As you turn to leave, you notice that your copper-chain bola is still on the ground and swiftly scoop it up first.
Or if your hands are full:
>e
As you turn to leave, you notice that your copper-chain bola is still on the ground. You must confirm that you wish to leave it behind.
>e
You go east, leaving your copper-chain bola behind.
I assume this hasn't been done because it is mechanically difficult. Perhaps it could work by assigning the item to a "worn" character slot (but not allowing its weight to contribute to burden), thus tying the item to the character and never actually allowing it into the janitor's domain (the ground). That is, these special items, when "dropped" would not show up on the ground but instead in the character's inventory (at his/her feet). When thrown, if not lodged, they would again end up at the feet.
It would save us a lot of annoyance and frustration I think.
- Player of Niieth
>WATCH bola
You begin to keep a careful eye on the copper-chain bola.
>drop bola
You drop your copper-chain bola.
>e
As you turn to leave, you notice that your copper-chain bola is still on the ground and swiftly scoop it up first.
Or if your hands are full:
>e
As you turn to leave, you notice that your copper-chain bola is still on the ground. You must confirm that you wish to leave it behind.
>e
You go east, leaving your copper-chain bola behind.
I assume this hasn't been done because it is mechanically difficult. Perhaps it could work by assigning the item to a "worn" character slot (but not allowing its weight to contribute to burden), thus tying the item to the character and never actually allowing it into the janitor's domain (the ground). That is, these special items, when "dropped" would not show up on the ground but instead in the character's inventory (at his/her feet). When thrown, if not lodged, they would again end up at the feet.
It would save us a lot of annoyance and frustration I think.
- Player of Niieth
Aver has dragged a stunned character into the next hunting room and run back to find her duffel bags full of boxes gone. Yes things can disappear via janitor 'that fast'
Aver has been killed, dropped sword, dragged away by critter, get dragged back (eventually) so I can 'look' to retreive my bonded sword. However in the instance of the throwing hammers...you leave/get dragged from that room for less then 30 seconds and like those duffel bags of Aver's.. it's gone.
I have lost count of how many players have told me about this happening with these hammers and how much they're paying to replace them (some more then once or twice).
I believe that if they fell in with other weapons staying around a little longer and weren't snatched up as quickly this wouldn't be as much an issue.
I believe that is all anyone is asking for .. a little more time to get back to retrieve that hammer as they would normally have with their other weapons.
Aver has been killed, dropped sword, dragged away by critter, get dragged back (eventually) so I can 'look' to retreive my bonded sword. However in the instance of the throwing hammers...you leave/get dragged from that room for less then 30 seconds and like those duffel bags of Aver's.. it's gone.
I have lost count of how many players have told me about this happening with these hammers and how much they're paying to replace them (some more then once or twice).
I believe that if they fell in with other weapons staying around a little longer and weren't snatched up as quickly this wouldn't be as much an issue.
I believe that is all anyone is asking for .. a little more time to get back to retrieve that hammer as they would normally have with their other weapons.
