This is probably the wrong time to ask this but its been bugging me and maybe a GH or something in the know will see this and be able to shed some light on the silly little questions that stick in my Green Jell-O brain matter.

What the heck is up with HX appraisals?

Most seem to be inadequate / not suited.
Some are Decent / Decent or around that area.
The crossing sold HX is Fair / Fair
The famous Slurbow is Reasonably / Reasonably

Also I realize that there's even a sub type of HX's, arbalest, but if this post gets much longer I'm going to need to go to the liquor store.

Now I also posted about this regarding melee weapons under the forging system, and I don't want to spam the boards but I also don't to ask a crossbow question in the lore>smithing folder.

I've read posts of LX and HX damage testing and what I've gleaned from that is the Slurbow is far and away a huge winner, being able to hit seemingly a damage cap with even crossing bought bolts so no need for 20 plat a piece pulzones.

Finally to the questions is the balance / suitedness of the slurbow what gives it its kick? Should inadequate / not suited HX's be avoided like the plague? Are not suited HX's really getting zero benefit from your strength where even a dismally suited one would? (brings up one of my favorite concepts, 1 is infinitely greater than zero)

How unless the balance/suitedness on an HX means nothing, could a not suited crossbow (or any weapon for that matter) be anything but worthless. And if so, why are there so many sold at fests and the like.

I dunno I could probably ramble on... Im sure someone has easy answers to all of this and I'd appreciate it, but also if a GM feels like touching on any upcoming changes to HX apps or just bow/xbow apps in general... I'm all eyes.

Thanks.

>Should inadequate / not suited HX's be avoided like the plague?

The thing is that the big, inaccurate crossbows (like the arbalest) are susupected to have an appraisal-invisible damage boost and that's why some people go for them. I've done only a little comparision, but the noticibly faster, better balanced regular heavy crossbows do more damage that the rather huge arbalest, so there might be a little something to the appraisal. You can still do plenty with the not balanced arbalest, just a bit less though.

>And if so, why are there so many sold at fests and the like.

Because they look really nice. Depending on the shop, some things at fests are nicer-looking versions of things. Style is important for killing things, not always as important as stats, but sometimes.

>>I'm training a new barbarian in deer at the moment, will using super ammo help LX learning rates at this level or is it a waste?

Special ammo helps a LOT.

<<Ok thanks, Ill look into it, any recommendations?

I think you're asking about the types of special ammo available for crossbows. If so, you want quadrellos or pulzones (any of the varieties out there).

The two have slightly different characteristics (quads have better slice whiel pulzones have better puncture), but the preferred ammo is up to some debate. Either way, both help a ton.

As they were once described to be "quadrellos are like loading a bastard sword into your crossbow."

Nikpack

<<In my experience deer are horrible for training LX. >>
Yeah I think I'm finding that out, slowly, painfully, and yeah, they suck.

- Buuwl

>>Stonebow and crafted shards

Do shards work better than the elongated stones?

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!

>Where can I buy these shards?

Player crafted. So trader tables possible, I had to gweth for mine. I think they were 15 plat for 15 shards (they don't lodge, so it's not like you'll lose one except for janitor and room clearing stuff).

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

I prefer spikes, but meh.

>Non-lodging ammo means I theoretically don't even need more than one. Same reason why I prefer light blunt-themed LTs over light edged-themed LTs (throwing blades notwithstanding).
>Not a fan of any ammo that has puncture greater than "none/no/0" mainly because it means I'll need more ammo at the start (and have more cleanup at the end).

your preference but I don't think your approach is optimal

total cleanup is the same for lodging and non-lodging (whether you do all at once, or after each throw). also, total number of commands entered is the same

however, you can get more total damage, in general, from things with puncture. i mean, for your lt example (ignoring blades) no way a bola can equal a light throwing axe for total damage

never mind. found it on elanthipedia. i'm blind. sorry.

>total cleanup is the same for lodging and non-lodging (whether you do all at once, or after each throw). also, total number of commands entered is the same

I'll disagree, especially where stealth is concerned. Lodged ammo means lost ammo. It also means having to kill a critter to retrieve ammo if I lodge all of it, which would mean extra commands (engage, attack)

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

just to add on...for comparison purpose...stealing from caraamon's elanthipedia entry, and putting into number form:

steal/lead bola:
00/01/08 05/07, 31 stones

steel/lead axe:
02/09/06 06/06, 37 stones

would love to see haralun axe

p.s. the balance for the throwing axes on caraamon's site are listed as 06- fairly, but fairly in all of the other weapons are listed as 05- fairly, so not sure if that's supposed to be rank 5 or rank 6 balance for the axes.

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!

>p.s. the balance for the throwing axes on caraamon's site are listed as 06- fairly, but fairly in all of the other weapons are listed as 05- fairly, so not sure if that's supposed to be rank 5 or rank 6 balance for the axes.

Whoops. My bad.

Fixed.

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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance

<<Foresters work better for over-hunting but Stonebow for at-level and under-hunting, IMO.

I definitely prefer 5 second loadtime with quadrellos (still takes about 24 minutes to lock, probably more a function of total ranks than pulse weirdness at this juncture) to basically no loadtime with the stonebow (last time I checked 22 minutes to lock), but I'll break one out sometime and see how they actually compare again. Most melee and thrown weapons lock in ~16 minutes, short bow in 21, for reference. Short bow is 150 ranks behind LX and I poach with it (but not with LX).

LX is still a huge pain and unless you're dead-set on training it (like you're a Barbarian and it's your primary weapon) I'd go a different way.

<<At this point(apping as worthy), there is no longer a comparison between them - stonebow is outperforming forester's by 3+ minutes.

Hm. I guess I'll see if I've still got a stonebow handy.

I've got the bolts if you got the time....

Dierik

To be fair, I've always privately characterized Burn as an orbital death laser. Armifer

I don't think 600 will beat 900... It might beat 700....

- Buuwl

<<I think 600 LX can blow past 900 shield with full aim using poach even with full paladin buffs up. I would like to test that theory.>>

I think that's right, but there's a lot of other variables in there. Agility, hiding vs perception for poaching boost, paladin's evasion/reflex, type of shield (for evasion hinderance purposes). That said, I think an unbuffed 600 bow full aim will probably get by 900 shield/700 evasion pretty easily, depending on defensive buffs.

Also, in my experience, there's zero difference between LX and longbow accuracy at equal ranks (never trained comp bow or short bow) and equal balance appraisals. Don't suppose Dierik has a stick bow at level with xbow? LX and pulzones = capped bow and basilisk arrows imho.