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I've been lugging around these spears for quite some time now, and it has gotten to the point where I think it is stupid to not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with the dang things at melee range.
So in regards to pike weapons, what is the benefit to them having virtually no other damage besides puncture? I know pikes suck pretty hard right now, but things that suck are usually geared to get better in the future. Have any plans been mentioned as to what benefits puncture/pike weapons will exhibit as time progresses? What are the current benefits to pike/puncture weapons? Are there any characters out there that use pike as a primary weapon?
~The one who is obsessed with power.
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There are some slightly slicing pikes out there as well the ngalio is one. We always ask for pushback effect with pikes to push opponents back to pole range, but it hasn't happened yet (I don't even think its on the "soon" list, but you never can tell).
A few changes I would like to see are the pushback, stopping opponents who are moving from missile to pole (stop their advance so they have to engage again to come to melee), no charge from pole to melee if you attack at pole while advancing, and a couple of decent slicing lances like they use in some parts of the Orient.
mfberg
A few changes I would like to see are the pushback, stopping opponents who are moving from missile to pole (stop their advance so they have to engage again to come to melee), no charge from pole to melee if you attack at pole while advancing, and a couple of decent slicing lances like they use in some parts of the Orient.
mfberg
Not only that but id love to see a nice pike template for forging. With this maybe a varity of spear tips to put on shafts.
Pikes with better construction, I hate that a blood wolf can break an ironwood shaft in 3 hits when it cant break an ironwood shield in 300. I know something was recently done to fix this but I dont think it was enough.
Weight vs Impact at 70 stones its amazing I get no impact damage with my spears.
You wonder if the grimy bar of soap is the home of an evil spirit.
Pikes with better construction, I hate that a blood wolf can break an ironwood shaft in 3 hits when it cant break an ironwood shield in 300. I know something was recently done to fix this but I dont think it was enough.
Weight vs Impact at 70 stones its amazing I get no impact damage with my spears.
You wonder if the grimy bar of soap is the home of an evil spirit.
Eh... so, are there any benefits to these puncture weapons called pike? Ya'll aren't helping to sway my decision to train it.
>Chortles.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
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drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
>Chortles.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
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http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
>>Eh... so, are there any benefits to these puncture weapons called pike? Ya'll aren't helping to sway my decision to train it.
Jousting (pike or halbred is used), pole ranged pikes are common, the knowledge that when pike is put in its rightful place at the top of the weapon chain you will be the most skilled in it, or the knowledge that you are skilled in the sixth worst weapon in the lands.
mfberg
Jousting (pike or halbred is used), pole ranged pikes are common, the knowledge that when pike is put in its rightful place at the top of the weapon chain you will be the most skilled in it, or the knowledge that you are skilled in the sixth worst weapon in the lands.
mfberg
>>the knowledge that you are skilled in the sixth worst weapon in the lands.
And we have a winner!
Now that you've swayed my opinion to train this skill, what is the most effective way of training it, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm assuming the combos are universal for all pike weapons? What is a good pike to start with for someone who has just sub 40 strength and agility? I know pikes are pretty intensive in the weight department.
Any suggestions or concerns I should take to heart?
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
And we have a winner!
Now that you've swayed my opinion to train this skill, what is the most effective way of training it, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm assuming the combos are universal for all pike weapons? What is a good pike to start with for someone who has just sub 40 strength and agility? I know pikes are pretty intensive in the weight department.
Any suggestions or concerns I should take to heart?
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
>>Now that you've swayed my opinion to train this skill, what is the most effective way of training it, if you don't mind me asking?
This is for your Bard, right? Disabling/crowd control abilities help a lot to maximize your situational control during the roundtime for heavily penalized puncture damage maneuvers. Use Resolve, Desert's Maelstrom as an opener. Be sure to keep one enemy wounded so you can dispose of it quickly and in a hurry if you find yourself suddenly surrounded.
With swords and clubs I can mostly just keep swinging my sequence without fear of messing up much. The damage and balance and defense ratio all follow a natural and positive progression. Pikes require you to maneuver yourself a little better, so unlike swords don't be afraid to repeat a few maneuvers (like circle/weave when brawling, or dodge/feint for normal attacks) to put yourself into a better position to score a big hit with your high-damage lunge move.
Of course, this is all sort of assuming you're using pikes at-level. If you're training on critters 200 ranks below your primary weapon just go wild.
>>I'm assuming the combos are universal for all pike weapons?
Pretty much. The heavy damage dealers are the maneuvers with heavy defense penalties (lunge, jab, thrust). Unlike halberds (which might veer towards puncture/slice or somewhere inbetween) pikes have one primary damage type.
>>What is a good pike to start with for someone who has just sub 40 strength and agility? I know pikes are pretty intensive in the weight department.
If weight is a problem, you might consider trying to find the short steel spear (Pike/Short Staff swappable) from To the Teeth from the Shard Liberation Festival (or recently from the Sea Caves). It weighs a very managable 35 stones and does moderate puncture damage, which is respectable. That I would recommend for a newbie-friendly pike. It's a little fragile, no parrying.
There are also several Festival and quest spears that are Pike/HT. They do heavy pucture at 40 stones, which is very nice. Again, they're usually flimsy, no parrying.
Seeing as how you're almost 40/40, however, I think you could easily handle the heavier stuff. You should consider the ox-tongue spear with a stout iron-studden haft (Pike/QS swappable). It weighs 55 stones and does heavy puncture damage, which is pretty nice. You should be able to handle this one very well. NOTE: It is well constructed, meaning it is very, very durable. This is what I consider the weapon of choice for pike training, especially given the ability to actually parry with it.
Hope that helps.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
This is for your Bard, right? Disabling/crowd control abilities help a lot to maximize your situational control during the roundtime for heavily penalized puncture damage maneuvers. Use Resolve, Desert's Maelstrom as an opener. Be sure to keep one enemy wounded so you can dispose of it quickly and in a hurry if you find yourself suddenly surrounded.
With swords and clubs I can mostly just keep swinging my sequence without fear of messing up much. The damage and balance and defense ratio all follow a natural and positive progression. Pikes require you to maneuver yourself a little better, so unlike swords don't be afraid to repeat a few maneuvers (like circle/weave when brawling, or dodge/feint for normal attacks) to put yourself into a better position to score a big hit with your high-damage lunge move.
Of course, this is all sort of assuming you're using pikes at-level. If you're training on critters 200 ranks below your primary weapon just go wild.
>>I'm assuming the combos are universal for all pike weapons?
Pretty much. The heavy damage dealers are the maneuvers with heavy defense penalties (lunge, jab, thrust). Unlike halberds (which might veer towards puncture/slice or somewhere inbetween) pikes have one primary damage type.
>>What is a good pike to start with for someone who has just sub 40 strength and agility? I know pikes are pretty intensive in the weight department.
If weight is a problem, you might consider trying to find the short steel spear (Pike/Short Staff swappable) from To the Teeth from the Shard Liberation Festival (or recently from the Sea Caves). It weighs a very managable 35 stones and does moderate puncture damage, which is respectable. That I would recommend for a newbie-friendly pike. It's a little fragile, no parrying.
There are also several Festival and quest spears that are Pike/HT. They do heavy pucture at 40 stones, which is very nice. Again, they're usually flimsy, no parrying.
Seeing as how you're almost 40/40, however, I think you could easily handle the heavier stuff. You should consider the ox-tongue spear with a stout iron-studden haft (Pike/QS swappable). It weighs 55 stones and does heavy puncture damage, which is pretty nice. You should be able to handle this one very well. NOTE: It is well constructed, meaning it is very, very durable. This is what I consider the weapon of choice for pike training, especially given the ability to actually parry with it.
Hope that helps.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
What about a pike for someone on a budget? Am I limited to Crossing pikes, or is there something in the under 3 plat range that I could make use of?
That twenty centuries of stony sleep / Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, / Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
- The Second Coming, W.B. Yeats
That twenty centuries of stony sleep / Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, / Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
- The Second Coming, W.B. Yeats
The golden tasseled spear from Theren is my weapon of choice for cheep and available HT/Pike training. Heavy puncture, 40 stones, dirt cheep. What's not to like? Grab a few and stick em in the shoulder tube available at the general store in town.
~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>Perhaps some of your fantasy worlds do involve tingling when a porn star gently touches you, but I don't think that's the kind of fantasy Simu's going for. ~ Sefkowk
~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>Perhaps some of your fantasy worlds do involve tingling when a porn star gently touches you, but I don't think that's the kind of fantasy Simu's going for. ~ Sefkowk
Ahh, that information was exactly what I needed. I guess I'll be utilizing my throwing spears as my new room clearing weapon with Resolve then. Is the only benefit to puncture damage over slice damage the resistability when considering creature natural armor and armor equipment, or are there other statistics I should know about?
An example, is that while there are armors and creatures that are resistant to impact damage, impact damage as a whole is vastly different than slice or puncture damage. Blocked and parried impact weapons cause much more unbalancing effects, and are more prone to damaging equipment.
So, is there a paralleled difference with puncture damage that hold it separate from slice and impact damage? Should I be asking this question in the General folder instead? It's a bit more on the universal question side more so than just dealing with pike weapons.
Thank you for all of the help, by the way.
>>This is for your Bard, right?
I only play a Bard.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
An example, is that while there are armors and creatures that are resistant to impact damage, impact damage as a whole is vastly different than slice or puncture damage. Blocked and parried impact weapons cause much more unbalancing effects, and are more prone to damaging equipment.
So, is there a paralleled difference with puncture damage that hold it separate from slice and impact damage? Should I be asking this question in the General folder instead? It's a bit more on the universal question side more so than just dealing with pike weapons.
Thank you for all of the help, by the way.
>>This is for your Bard, right?
I only play a Bard.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
>>So, is there a paralleled difference with puncture damage that hold it separate from slice and impact damage?
Yes. All three damage categories are treated very differently in that each armor or creature has a natural resistance to each kind of damage. Puncture and slice are as different, if not moreso, then fire and lightning damage.
As an example, all skeletal figures resist slice and puncture and are weak to impact. I don't know if you ever did the Ghost Ship quest, but the captain at the end was a skeleton. I was only knicking him with my bastie but once I switched to my throwing hammer I was landing heavy hits.
In my experience puncture works well against slower targets, who are usually well-armored like warklins. Evasion seems to be effective against puncture damage, especially for maneuvers like Backstab, and armor less so.
It's sometimes hard to notice when merely hunting, simply because Player-Characters using their powerful buffs and abilities usually generate so much overall offensive factor that something like "moderate resistance to slice" doesn't matter much when I'm using a capped 2HE, am using Resolve, am nimbly balanced/dominating my opponent. DR is very solo-hunter friendly, even designed to be perhaps, so it's not often where players are rewarded for such knowledge outside of tourneys or some such. But there's your answer if you were curious, I hope.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
Yes. All three damage categories are treated very differently in that each armor or creature has a natural resistance to each kind of damage. Puncture and slice are as different, if not moreso, then fire and lightning damage.
As an example, all skeletal figures resist slice and puncture and are weak to impact. I don't know if you ever did the Ghost Ship quest, but the captain at the end was a skeleton. I was only knicking him with my bastie but once I switched to my throwing hammer I was landing heavy hits.
In my experience puncture works well against slower targets, who are usually well-armored like warklins. Evasion seems to be effective against puncture damage, especially for maneuvers like Backstab, and armor less so.
It's sometimes hard to notice when merely hunting, simply because Player-Characters using their powerful buffs and abilities usually generate so much overall offensive factor that something like "moderate resistance to slice" doesn't matter much when I'm using a capped 2HE, am using Resolve, am nimbly balanced/dominating my opponent. DR is very solo-hunter friendly, even designed to be perhaps, so it's not often where players are rewarded for such knowledge outside of tourneys or some such. But there's your answer if you were curious, I hope.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
That'd do it. Thank you, I'll put that knowledge to good use! I promise.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - The all New Sounds of Time
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
Wow, talk about a bad weapon skill.
Is pike on a negative learning curve? Seriously, even with immobilized creatures and while nailing them for a straight 3-5 minutes I was just barely able to lock the pike skill. That's with a good 7-10+ of them dead. This is with a Heavy puncture 40 stone Golden-Tasseled Spear.
I don't know what the Pike skill did to the GMs to make them so angry, but I have to say--Pike, you must have royally succeeded.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - Temporarily down, fighting with Lycos
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
Is pike on a negative learning curve? Seriously, even with immobilized creatures and while nailing them for a straight 3-5 minutes I was just barely able to lock the pike skill. That's with a good 7-10+ of them dead. This is with a Heavy puncture 40 stone Golden-Tasseled Spear.
I don't know what the Pike skill did to the GMs to make them so angry, but I have to say--Pike, you must have royally succeeded.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - Temporarily down, fighting with Lycos
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
The problem is not pike weapons. Pike weapons themselves are actually very managable. Pike weapons tier much better then or as well as many weapon categories. HT is for example a skill I would consider, even after the nerf, reasonable, and the best non-lodging HT is 40 stones and heavy impact.
The problem is combat maneuvers associated with piercing damage: defense penalty, higher roundtimes, generally lower balance bonus, generally lower damage. The only envy-worthy piercing maneuver, for both damage and learning rate, is Backstab. What combat sequence are you using? Remember to include all three heavy-damage pierce maneuvers (jab, thrust, lunge) in your sequence with as few intermediate steps as possible. Also remember that immobilized enemies actually grant less EXP, so play around a bit.
I've trained all weapon categories but the slings and Short Bow up to 100, and let me tell you Pike is a halfway decent weapon. The "problem" is that it sucks compared to swords, blunts, and bows, all of which are generally fantastic weapon categories. I would rate it about equal with LT, HT and QS, maybe less then Halberd.
If you want to train weapon categories that suck, try Short Staff, Sling and Staff Sling. Staff Sling is my favorite personally. "Look! I am 55 stones heavier then a normal sling you can put in your pocket and do NO ADDITIONAL DAMAGE WHATSOEVER! You can't even parry with me, which might be a neat perk!"
So yeah. Pike's okay, you're just probably used to something amazing like 2HE or longbow.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
The problem is combat maneuvers associated with piercing damage: defense penalty, higher roundtimes, generally lower balance bonus, generally lower damage. The only envy-worthy piercing maneuver, for both damage and learning rate, is Backstab. What combat sequence are you using? Remember to include all three heavy-damage pierce maneuvers (jab, thrust, lunge) in your sequence with as few intermediate steps as possible. Also remember that immobilized enemies actually grant less EXP, so play around a bit.
I've trained all weapon categories but the slings and Short Bow up to 100, and let me tell you Pike is a halfway decent weapon. The "problem" is that it sucks compared to swords, blunts, and bows, all of which are generally fantastic weapon categories. I would rate it about equal with LT, HT and QS, maybe less then Halberd.
If you want to train weapon categories that suck, try Short Staff, Sling and Staff Sling. Staff Sling is my favorite personally. "Look! I am 55 stones heavier then a normal sling you can put in your pocket and do NO ADDITIONAL DAMAGE WHATSOEVER! You can't even parry with me, which might be a neat perk!"
So yeah. Pike's okay, you're just probably used to something amazing like 2HE or longbow.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
>Staff Sling is my favorite personally. "Look! I am 55 stones heavier then a normal sling you can put in your pocket and do NO ADDITIONAL DAMAGE WHATSOEVER! You can't even parry with me, which might be a neat perk!"
Not really relevent, but my current favorite weapon is the stonebow. For the people who trained LX but wish they had trained sling.
Not really relevent, but my current favorite weapon is the stonebow. For the people who trained LX but wish they had trained sling.
>>Not really relevent, but my current favorite weapon is the stonebow. For the people who trained LX but wish they had trained sling.
Haha!
Very true. I think the Stonebow has to be the oddest weapon in the realms.
I was talking about my favorite category overall though. 5 stone weak Sling appraises fairly/fairly. 60 stone flimsy Staff Sling appraises fairly/fairly. Somewhere something just didn't work out right or development stopped, like the inability to fletch composite bows.
Feh.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
Haha!
Very true. I think the Stonebow has to be the oddest weapon in the realms.
I was talking about my favorite category overall though. 5 stone weak Sling appraises fairly/fairly. 60 stone flimsy Staff Sling appraises fairly/fairly. Somewhere something just didn't work out right or development stopped, like the inability to fletch composite bows.
Feh.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
Hmm, didn't know that part on the immobilized enemy bit. Anyway, all I have been using is jab thrust lunge. No dodge, no nothing--just straight attacks. It seemed like even though I was managing pretty hefty hits, the exp learning state wasn't raising hardly at all. The damage was fine, especially considering I was using 11 ranks against immobilized snow goblins. It's just the learning I have a gripe with.
And I hate 2HE and longbow. In fact, I hate all bows and crossbows. I will admit, however, that I'm backtraining 2HB up along with TM, both of which are very delicious.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - Temporarily down, fighting with Lycos
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
And I hate 2HE and longbow. In fact, I hate all bows and crossbows. I will admit, however, that I'm backtraining 2HB up along with TM, both of which are very delicious.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.tripod.com - Temporarily down, fighting with Lycos
http://drleilond.tripod.com - The Story
drleilond.tripod.com/Guild_Requirements.xls - Personal Bard Guild Req Sheet
A couple suggestions.
I am 95% sure sleeping/immobilizing/knocking an an enemy unconscious penalizes learning from my experience. I hypothesize that this has to do with the way experience is generated but I have no proof nor any way to ever prove it so I won't go into details. Bluntly, using special abilities to over-train your base ranks by a couple hundred is not the most efficient way to train.
Use a real attack sequence; job-thrust-lunge is very balance-neutral. Raising your balance to naturally increase your damage instead of using DEMA or Resolve should help your experience gain.
Also, try actually dropping a couple creatures on the ladder. It's been my experience that in many cases at-level hunting is much more effective for exp gain then over-hunting.
Hope that helps.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
I am 95% sure sleeping/immobilizing/knocking an an enemy unconscious penalizes learning from my experience. I hypothesize that this has to do with the way experience is generated but I have no proof nor any way to ever prove it so I won't go into details. Bluntly, using special abilities to over-train your base ranks by a couple hundred is not the most efficient way to train.
Use a real attack sequence; job-thrust-lunge is very balance-neutral. Raising your balance to naturally increase your damage instead of using DEMA or Resolve should help your experience gain.
Also, try actually dropping a couple creatures on the ladder. It's been my experience that in many cases at-level hunting is much more effective for exp gain then over-hunting.
Hope that helps.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
