>(with enough swimming)
Nice qualifier :p

Yes, once you hit 600(?) swimming needed to pull off the 1 second swim in the Sego it'll only be about 10 seconds slower than the passage which requires around 100 ranks to pull off 1 second swims.

---

Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"

>Given that the undergondola requires 500+ climbing, I think it's rather disingenuous to insinuate the Segoltha is going to take an unreasonable amount of extra time for a non-thief.
I think you're reading more into my posts than I am. The closest I've come to bringing up the Undergondola was my estimate similar to Critter's

>It's only a couple of minutes if you have the Climbing and Swimming, but that's pretty ambitious.


The "Thief Hax" comment was just poking fun at my brother and not a serious comment about travel times.

---

Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"

>>I think you're reading more into my posts than I am. The closest I've come to bringing up the Undergondola was my estimate similar to Critter's

No one mentioned the undergondola by name, but then:

>>Theren to BC is a 5 minute or so trip if you train your climb/swim

It's pretty hard to do this without it(even given the hyperbole of the statement). Otherwise you're waiting a minimum of 6 minutes on the gondola(assuming it's docked at the north side of the platform when you get there), or longer for the barge.

>>The "Thief Hax" comment was just poking fun at my brother and not a serious comment about travel times.

Regardless, it was inaccurate.

---

TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.

People confuse what is and isn't the mainland all the time.

Forf is "too far."

Therengia is "just right" if you're from there, or "really far away" if you're from Ilithi.

Ilithi is similarly disposed.

Zoluren is "too crowded already."

Which basically leaves us back where we started.

> there are "option" of places to go and hunt on the mainland, they just are not good options.

I'm really hoping that along with the pain of change, DR3.0 will bring an end to overpowered critter special attacks. It's a lovely dream...

~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning

>I don't have great climbing/swimming, so how long would it take me to get from Theren/Lang to Boar Clan?

I've only got 9 runs, but here's my current average.

Theren to Boar Clan: 1969.09 seconds
Boar Clan to Theren: 1897.86 seconds
You're looking at around 30 minutes.
I'm swimming the Jantspyre and Feld, ferry across the Sego and taking the Gondola.

You can gweth from Siksraja to the Cleric Guild north of Boar Clan so, from my limited knowledge on Moonie magic, that seems like it should be an easy Gate. Boar Clan is just outside of gweth range from Siksraja, since the dividing line is Black Gobs.

---

Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"

>>If we start adding backyard caracal/celp/dillo pens to every neighborhood then travel skills/spells become devalued.<<

No they don't. I don't think boats/gates to the islands became devalued when a ton of 500-700 rank hunting grounds opened up. No one is really saying they have to be as awesome of trainers as celps, caracals and dillos. They just need to be good enough so that if there's something like a war going on that high level hunters want to get in on, they don't need to spend time finding a gate or a boat back to the mainland. Nothing says they have to be two rooms out the NE gate. Boar Clan's fairly out of the way from most places but last time I was there, headsplitters and tuskies were fairly well populated.

My view is that every province should have some form of critter ladder through the highest available creature in game.

The benefits:
perfectly said.



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<1. It allows people to stay within their community if they so choose.

2. It allows people to travel and gives them reason to travel if they so choose.

3. It provides a range of options (much like the 0-400 range that presently exists about everywhere.

For me it is about the ability to RP better and would make the game a bit more enjoyable.

Madigan

reply>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I agree with Madigan and like the ideas put forth by Codiax.

---

Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus

So we are all agreed right? We want some good level critters in Theren/Lang/Rossmans area? ;o)

As for my skills, I'm about 500 combats, bit higher on TM.

And as for the 10 minutes travel time... by 10 minutes, the city could be ripped apart and the invasion over by the time I arrive, and thats not allowing for the fact my swimming/climbing is barely 130

Somni

There are Sky Giants that teach pretty decently into the 700s I believe and you aren't far from cinder beasts/shadow hounds which also teach in that range.

Sky giants appear to spend about 90% of their time casting lightning bolt or ES, so don't expect to work parry/shield there.

I know cinder beasts stop teaching well at 550+. What's the next step up around Therengia? ...as sky giants/elder gryphons are not a decent option to train regularly.

Cinder Beasts teach great and spawn is great for their range, but i think they do stop somewhere in 600's.


Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

I disagree with everything Futility said. Hierophants are not a great compromise. Why should high level hunting be any different then low level hunting? You(general you) get a break because you haven't gotten to 800 ranks in a skill? 150th characters hunting high level content on the mainland wouldn't affect you negatively at all.

> Because it is?

The question was "why" not "is it?"

> I'm concerned that the game isn't seeing interesting development on the creature front primarily because the only thing players want to see is easy-to-access, easy-to-hunt, don't-have-special-attacks-that-are-threatening creatures. That's a cop out

And it also applies to lower level creatures. This isn't restricted to end-of-game creatures, no matter how much you want it to be.

> More high level characters on the mainland means less inclusive events.

All events require combat? I must've missed that statement somewhere. As far as I can tell, level or guild standing has no bearing on one's ability to use the SAY command.

> More high level characters on the mainland means, worst of all, that there will essentially be nobody in Qi.

This implies nothing on the islands are worthwhile outside of creatures. Perhaps that issue should be addressed on its own merits rather than tied in to something unrelated.

> I'm really tired of the push for "easier more faster better," frankly. If that's legitimately what I wanted, I would be playing WoW.

It's fantastic that you're a hardcore roleplayer. The only problem is the game caters to all types, as they're all paying customers.

That being said, I'd love some mainland hunting for end-of-game. As it stands, the only thing I have left are dragon priest assassins due to differences cross-instance, and I'd rather not be the only person on M'Riss.

>>Because it is? I'm not sure why this needs to explained, but it very much is. I'm concerned that the game isn't seeing interesting development on the creature front primarily because the only thing players want to see is easy-to-access, easy-to-hunt, don't-have-special-attacks-that-are-threatening creatures. That's a cop out, and it honestly needed to end with crocodiles.<<

It ISN'T different. I can easily go through the hunting levels without fighting one critter with special attacks or are difficult to get to. Why should I have to jump through hoops to hunt just because I hit x ranks?

Who said anything about special attacks? Honestly it sounds like you have almost no experience with high end combat. To even get hit right now, the critter has to roll really well, which would pretty much end in a limb missing at best and my death at the worst.

>>On the contrary, every reason that has been given for desiring to be able to hunt on the mainland would affect me negatively. More high level characters on the mainland means less inclusive events. More high level characters on the mainland means more potential jerks for new players to deal with. More high level characters on the mainland means, worst of all, that there will essentially be nobody in Qi. Except maybe Ratha but I seriously doubt that will hold out in the face of easy-to-access hunting on the mainland<<

No, some people prefer the quiet of the islands. I enjoy the quiet of the islands. I don't have people jabbering OOC into the gweth, sending hugs through them, etc. There's still zero reason to not have high level hunting on the mainland. Let's say a war started up, if I want to be involved, I can be. I pay to play the game just like you do. Because I'm a HLC and you're not means I don't get to play so you can?

HLC jerks can still go to the mainland, regardless of what teaches him/her.

>>I'm really tired of the push for "easier more faster better," frankly. If that's legitimately what I wanted, I would be playing WoW.<<

Yeah, I'm playing an MMO to play by myself on an island because it might inconvenience a lower circle player by me wanting to get involved in an event.

>>No, keep the easy to hunt critters, just keep them well off the beaten path. If you want convenience in access, then be willing to put up with some irritation critter-wise.<<

Your argument makes zero sense at all. First there's no such thing as a hard to hunt critter. There's just varying levels of annoyance. Why should any character, regardless of circle/skill level, be forced to deal with annoyance for a game they are paying to play? Would you be happy if every worthwhile critter in your circle range was moved to say Hara and that to actually get involved with any RP event you had to deal with finding a boat ride or a gate or the awful travel times with the NPC boats? No, you wouldn't.

>>That's a separate issue. The complaint about creatures on the mainland that currently teach in the Riss/Kresh range is that the special attacks make them less attractive. The one-hit deaths are an artifact of the combat system that is, according to the development team, being addressed in 3.0. Please don't muddy the waters.<<

No, hierophants just suck to get into and aren't worth the time. By the time you get past the initial curse and puzzle, you could have been on the islands and hunting supers/juvies and learning better. For the record, supers/armadillos have a special attack.

The complaint is that there aren't enough areas that teach high level characters that don't suck to get to or have weird issues with them. We really don't care about special attacks as long as they aren't broken. Please understand what the complaint is before commenting on it.

>>Not what I said at all.<<

Yes it is. It's exactly what you said. You want the HLCs on the islands away so you can play how you want. We should be forced off so you can enjoy RP events and so there aren't as many "jerks" on the mainland. If I wanted to be a jerk, I'm already 150th, I can just come and ignore training for a while just because I could. There are a lot of people who are jerks that aren't high level. The only difference is they are a lot more killable.

>>I'm aware. But inconvenience in access to hunting areas means there's a larger buffer. <<

No it doesn't. HLCs tend to be friends with other HLCs, some of whom are moonies or have access to boats. Let's say you and I were in a conflict. I was on the islands hunting and I saw you log in. I could be back on the mainland within 20 minutes if I chose to. If my moonie friends are on, I'd be back very fast. I could kill you(if that was what the conflict was), and get back before my mind drained much of my learning. I hate to tell you this, but there are very few HLC jerks on the islands. Very few. Why? If they start griefing people, they aren't surrounded by people 50+ circles lower then them and there will be repercussions for it.

>>Incidentally, this is exactly what WoW is.<<

Except it isn't. When I raid in WoW, I'm with 24 other people. When I do PvP, I'm with up to 39 others fighting against up to 40 others. In a regular instance, it's 4 other people. The only time you're actually alone is farming and questing. I spend more time alone in DR then I do in WoW. Also, they are two different types of games so comparing them isn't really the best way to go.

Guys.

I understand that this is an issue some of you feel pretty strongly about. But we've already had a NUDGE on this, so let's try to keep things constructive and make your presentations and arguments without the "NO YOU".

People are going to have opinions on this that may or may not converge, please remember to respect that and pen replies accordingly, so this thread can remain constructive and not be moved to the Equine Cemetery.

Truly appreciated!

Svafa

___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.

>That's a separate issue. The complaint about creatures on the mainland that currently teach in the Riss/Kresh range is that the special attacks make them less attractive.

I'm all for special critters that are particularly rewarding but introduce additional difficulties as a trade-off (ala Oshu) but this should not be the baseline. If one critter is so broken and unfun that people complain about "having" to travel halfway across the world for the only other option, something is wrong.

On the other hand, there should be no "total package" critter, either. At a minimum we should have to make decisions like "skinning or boxes", "resists magic or resists slicing" and "convenient location or teaches extra skills". I hope any 150th+ critters released on the mainland have at least one flaw to offset the convenience and keep some people on the islands, too. Doesn't teach parry/stealth/skinning, resists all physical damage, casts powerful debilitation magic, etc.

The base issue about having more than one option, however, is very valid. This doesn't "seem" like an issue at low levels (unless you're restricted to Ilithi, then it is) but the upper end is filling in very slowly worldwide. Hopefully this a top priority after the dust settles from Combat 3 and we all figure out how far back down the ladder we've fallen. Heh.

~ Pansophist Kougen

You search the Dragon Priest assassin.
The assassin was carrying some knee-high snakeskin boots and a medium red beryl!