Armor matters. A lot. So do mentals on the searcher's side and discipline on the hider's side.

Also, you didn't mention bonuses for either party. Were you, the ranger watcher, in wilderness and the hider not ranger etc etc?

Folks need to start trying to account for pertinent variables before demanding things.

>> discipline on the hider's side.

I really wish they would've split Stealth's contest over several stats. I posted about it long before 3.0 went live and was ignored. Right now, it's just Disc. Perception contests Int/Wis.

It ties directly into Disc's status(still) as a super-stat. It leads in several areas and dabbles everywhere. Ideally, Charisma would be a good place to split some of it to. It does close to nothing for most guilds.

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"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>what possible bearing on stealth could charisma have

"These are not the droids you're looking for..."

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>>"These are not the droids you're looking for..."

^ The missing use for charisma.

>I do think that stealth is not accurately factoring stats, or that stats are even as for usefulness. The moment agility was separated from damage, it became little more than a parlor trick, agility playing no part in stealth just added insult to injury. The logical idea of staying hidden from a person would factor agility, reflex, and discipline.

I think Stealth would also need to require Intelligence to determine what would constitute a good hiding spot, as well as Wisdom to not hide in the same spot over and over, getting repeatedly spotted.

>Logical and potentially true, but that would only count once the person has found you, so it may play into how hard the rehide penalties hit you. Who cares if you are in the same spot over and over if the other person has not yet identified it as one of your spots. If we get into things like this, the stealth system starts getting far too complex and troublesome to keep meshed with the rest of DR.

Indeed, or once you've revealed your hiding spot and those in the room saw where you came out from. That can also turn into creatures of habit returning to the same hiding spot so having a perpetual need for decent Intelligence/Wisdom may also suit Stealth, not just on the re-hide.

Complexity can be a good thing until it becomes over bearing, right now it's very simplistic and there's a super stat tied to it. There does need to be some break out, possibly Charisma like Gorteous mentioned and maybe one of the mental stats like Intelligence or Wisdom.

> I'm not sure it takes large amounts of Wisdom to realize, "Behind the couch is always the first place he checks. Maybe I should hide somewhere else?"

Yeah i know a cleric named Aftermath who would hide like that.

> So, DnD allows a 'bluff' check, which is charisma based, which in turn can allow a hide attempt (and render the opponent flat footed, or other penalties).

That is actually a really cool idea, some kind of system to give the hider benefits for making his target think hes somewhere else, given he has the skill to pull it off.

a bluff check having any RT over like 1 would have to be pretty potent to be worth using.

> Charisma makes sense in that it is the mental stat for influencing things outside the self. Since stealth in dr is NOT just being in a bush charisma is a good secondary choice.

Yamcer yells from behind a rock, "Im not behind this rock, look in the bush instead."

cha·ris·ma
1.
compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.

> Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Here, let me paste more of your own quote for you.


Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead.

You apply your character’s Charisma modifier to:
Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device checks. These are the skills that have Charisma as their key ability.
Checks that represent attempts to influence others.
Turning checks for clerics and paladins attempting to turn zombies, vampires, and other undead.


Explain how any of those apply to a person who is not aware of your presence in any fashion.

> Because stealth is NOT strictly hiding in a bush, behind a couch, or in a dark corner. It is not being unseen with the eyes, it is being unnoticed by the conciseness. I'm sorry if you think stealth is DR is a mundane affair, but you are mistaken. If you think stealth is a strict physical action then the concepts of how it actually is in DR defy your reasoning stemming for a unfounded premise.

You are lumping in your idea of disguise with what stealth is, you are wrong. In DR being hidden does not include "hiding in a crowd" or hiding in plain sight by pretending you are suppose to be there, this is accounted for by the thief bonus system (slightly better stealth in town) I pray to god no GMs actually believe anything you say, i would place you near the PB level for content value.

Had this conversation, years ago....

Stealth in DR is definitely fantastical or at least not like real world stealth.

-Zeyurn

http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Abilities,%20Skills%20and%20Magic/Survival%20Skills%20-%20Stealth/view/885


Yamcer

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"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF

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And when I'm dead, my corpse vanishes and instead a similar sized skull and crossbones appears.