As I test I read the other boards also, Thieves might be My biggest concern as I consider my thief my main, I do play many other guilds.

I am willing to accept the state of our decreased learning IF the plans are to equally nerf the so called "FREE" xp the rest of the known Elanthia is getting.(posted examples can be found in previous posts by me).

The problem is how long will we be in the gutter while everyone else is basking in the glory of non-contested XP gain? Learning inner magic is harder to achieve in its current state then any other skill I possess.

Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,

Were you using prowess to work deb? I find it very difficult to get deb above 12 without either turning off all khri, or running out of concentration first.

I'm feeling like the exp reward for ambush choke, slash, and stun should be upped. I got about 4 mindstates per 5 ambush moves, which means I'm looking at 40+ ambushes to lock probably. That's a pretty slow rate, given I have to hide in between each one, and some require dirt, which means preparation since you can't do that in combat.

It currently feels not like something I would train by doing it in combat, but something that I would cycle through to kill a few critters via ambush slash. Though slash has seemed to randomly stop teaching me much after a few attacks; is there a limit to the number of times I can ambush or ambush slash one critter before it stops teaching? Or is there a hiding component somehow? I put up darken and suddenly was learning it well again.

It's not really comparable to a magic user or a barb, I never had much problems getting deb to high mindstates with those chars.

I'd estimate 10 minutes to lock it, if that's all I was doing. Probably took me 15 in test, and I don't have access to prowess, realistically. Bear in mind that's turning all my khri off.

Screen taught 2-3 mindstates per go, which for the RT and effect is probably quite good.

Sitting (literally) in combat here, I started up prowess, got 2 minutes of duration, saw it pulse 1 time, got several mindstates periodically, but never saw it pulse again, not sure if that's because I failed the checks or what.

Mages have a spam-cast deb trainer, barbs are gated by roars, but both seem to train significantly faster and easier than ambushes to right now. Ambushes have the side effect of being trainable at-level regardless of deb skill and that shouldn't be overlooked.

Relatively low level characters aren't going to have a wide flavor of tools to train with, so if at all possible, I'd like to see another ambush layered in somewhere, or a deb-teaching khri (possibly an easier, whatever you're currently facing only, version of prowess vs. something besides will or reflex useful in combat, like reduction of single-target OF)

Replying to myself: I sat down and tossed up dark, focus, damp, haste, then spammed meditate.

I got to:

Inner Magic: 130 69% captivated (26/34) Augmentation: 107 71% examining (13/34)
Debilitation: 66 71% very engaged (23/34) Utility: 66 69% studious (19/34)

in about 5-10 minutes.

It's not terrible. I think we could bump the exp gain a bit, I'd still like to see another low level (tier 1) utility ability to go with hasten (since dampen is t2), and I'd like to see a general learning rate bump a little so we didn't need the meditate command.

But, the meditate command is awesome for those times when you just want to sit back and work magic skills like a mage, and it confers exp to all three active magic skills at once, assuming you have up the right khri.

I'm feeling pretty positive about it, overall, just feel like it could use a 10-20% exp bump. Same for debilitation.

And thanks for all the hard work Ric, you da man.

<<when you just want to sit back and work magic skills like a mage>>

>Khri Meditate NEEDS to be integrated with the disguise system. OOOOO that would be so awesome, to have khri meditate do a spell prep at the start of RT and cast at the end to make it look like you are casting spells. I so want.

That is such an awesome Idea Yamcer ... could couple that with the fake magic items and make it look like you used camb also.....

Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,

No, but a lot of us do - or try to, at least.