Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
So... aside from some pending IF tweaks and new Roar Exp calcs, how are people feeling about the Guild? I've been focusing more on Combat to try and get that settled down, but don't want to let things here fall by the wayside. Keeping in mind that Expertise, more abilities, new Lore and Maneuvers will come over the next few months - is the Guild suitable to go live?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I have not tested a whole lot. The missing stuff leaves the guild with an unfinished feel to it. If I spend all my slots now for roars, meditations, dances and berserks, will I be able to drop them (easly/for free) when the rest of our abilities come out? Forget everything and choose again from the final, finished list of abilities. If not, how about posting a list of these abilities with their costs so I can make an informed decision?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
As a DR Plat player, we were forced to make the switch months ago (so, maybe I'm biased), but with that said I like the set-up of the guild more under 3.0 than I did under 2.0. Most of my concerns are over duration/power/session-cost issues; the foundation of the guild is pretty awesome IMO, and is ready to go.
another plat-side barb here, I feel its pretty much ready to roll. Combat-wise, I still do miss berserk stone. I would like to see more in-game explanation on the lore side of things <barbarian histories and such>.
Some of the guildleaders still aren't properly set for their designated pathways as well.
-g-
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
Some of the guildleaders still aren't properly set for their designated pathways as well.
-g-
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
>>So... aside from some pending IF tweaks and new Roar Exp calcs, how are people feeling about the Guild? I've been focusing more on Combat to try and get that settled down, but don't want to let things here fall by the wayside. Keeping in mind that Expertise, more abilities, new Lore and Maneuvers will come over the next few months - is the Guild suitable to go live?<<
Last time I was in, I still couldn't use dual load. This is coming from the high end area, but dragon and eagle really don't seem to do much of anything noticeable. Wildfire didn't help much either for that matter. Maybe it's because intercessors are harder after 3.0 but in the small test I did, with no offensive buffs I was averaging 6 shots per kill with a comp bow against an intercessor. With eagle and wildfire it was 4-5 shots. With just eagle, I averaged 6 shots per kill. Our melee boosts were about the same, just took even more swings with a mirror axe. The average with or without buffs was 11 swings. I think we're mostly ok, just need some help with our buffs being a little weak and not having weapon feats.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Last time I was in, I still couldn't use dual load. This is coming from the high end area, but dragon and eagle really don't seem to do much of anything noticeable. Wildfire didn't help much either for that matter. Maybe it's because intercessors are harder after 3.0 but in the small test I did, with no offensive buffs I was averaging 6 shots per kill with a comp bow against an intercessor. With eagle and wildfire it was 4-5 shots. With just eagle, I averaged 6 shots per kill. Our melee boosts were about the same, just took even more swings with a mirror axe. The average with or without buffs was 11 swings. I think we're mostly ok, just need some help with our buffs being a little weak and not having weapon feats.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>>Could be wrong since I don't play a barb, but these two are just a to-hit bonus if I remember right. So with your ranks it's not surprising that you don't see much from them. <<
Yeah I know, but I'm a firm believer that all buffs in game should provide some noticeable benefit regardless of level. It was one of the issues with 2.0. Once a barb could get dragon and keep it up most of the time, he/she would never have to use anything else. As it stands right now, and I'm still coming from a high level player perspective, I have no real reason to ever use dragon or eagle. All they do are basically take up slots. If I have them, I should get some tangible result from them. If all they are ever going to do is provide a to-hit bonus I'd rather see them be combined into a single boost and another ability replacing the removed one.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Yeah I know, but I'm a firm believer that all buffs in game should provide some noticeable benefit regardless of level. It was one of the issues with 2.0. Once a barb could get dragon and keep it up most of the time, he/she would never have to use anything else. As it stands right now, and I'm still coming from a high level player perspective, I have no real reason to ever use dragon or eagle. All they do are basically take up slots. If I have them, I should get some tangible result from them. If all they are ever going to do is provide a to-hit bonus I'd rather see them be combined into a single boost and another ability replacing the removed one.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Skill boosters are not going to be useful if you utterly beat a skill check every time. The issue with 2.0 combat was that if you succeeded a check in combat that the 'accuracy' was resulting in extra damage and that has been capped. In that model, stacking to hit bonuses was 'the way' to win. In the new model different buffs will have varying usefulness based on the situation. If you are already smacking something well enough to cap the accuracy damage bonus, then abilities that boost strength and 'damage' are going to be more useful. The old system meant dragon was the only thing ever worth dancing, where now based off what your fighting (above or below your skill) different dances will be useful or not useful. If you have trouble hitting something 'well', I suspect dragon will be better than most of your other dances in terms of combat performance.
I think the idea that something should always be useful makes things very difficult to balance around, and would make creating more abilities harder and harder. Combining them would also seem to be a 4 slot cost ability and I imagine increase the inner fire consumption considerably. I'm no barbarian but I figure having them be separate is more preferable so your not paying the IF cost for something your not using?
I think the idea that something should always be useful makes things very difficult to balance around, and would make creating more abilities harder and harder. Combining them would also seem to be a 4 slot cost ability and I imagine increase the inner fire consumption considerably. I'm no barbarian but I figure having them be separate is more preferable so your not paying the IF cost for something your not using?
I still need to change Eagle a bit to be more effective, especially for thrown weapons.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>As a DR Plat player, we were forced to make the switch months ago (so, maybe I'm biased), but with that said I like the set-up of the guild more under 3.0 than I did under 2.0. Most of my concerns are over duration/power/session-cost issues; the foundation of the guild is pretty awesome IMO, and is ready to go.
Yet another Plat Barb, and I agree with this enough that I don't want to try and do better. IF tweaks should cure the last vestiges of concern. One in particular: I fine it a little difficult (though not impossible) to maintain IF, even running one basic form, at low levels (12th) circle) with some of the larger weapons. Larger weapons with 9 second RTs make killing quickly enough to keep up a challenge. If this is as intended, then carry on. I don't really have that big a problem with optimization being a challenge at new levels, and I did say it wasn't impossible, so...
~The Prydaen~
Yet another Plat Barb, and I agree with this enough that I don't want to try and do better. IF tweaks should cure the last vestiges of concern. One in particular: I fine it a little difficult (though not impossible) to maintain IF, even running one basic form, at low levels (12th) circle) with some of the larger weapons. Larger weapons with 9 second RTs make killing quickly enough to keep up a challenge. If this is as intended, then carry on. I don't really have that big a problem with optimization being a challenge at new levels, and I did say it wasn't impossible, so...
~The Prydaen~
I think all my concerns have been brought up already. In order of most important to least IMO:
1. Some Inner Fire help.
2. Damage booster... I know Wildfire was discussed as a possibility. But just to reiterate, I think Barbarians should definitely excel in pure damage. To-hit is great, but other guilds can definitely make a case for having a strong focus on it, while I think something that gives an enormous damage boost isn't out of the question for Barbs.
3. Eagle working better for thrown weapons.
Otherwise, we're good to go. Ready to be released. Definitely looking forward to post 3.0 weapon feats/styles and all that jazz, and would like to thank Kodius again for such amazing work on the rewrite.
Is the Earthquake berserk, Hurricane berserk (is this still planned?), and Sacrifice meditation going to make the 3.0 release?
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
1. Some Inner Fire help.
2. Damage booster... I know Wildfire was discussed as a possibility. But just to reiterate, I think Barbarians should definitely excel in pure damage. To-hit is great, but other guilds can definitely make a case for having a strong focus on it, while I think something that gives an enormous damage boost isn't out of the question for Barbs.
3. Eagle working better for thrown weapons.
Otherwise, we're good to go. Ready to be released. Definitely looking forward to post 3.0 weapon feats/styles and all that jazz, and would like to thank Kodius again for such amazing work on the rewrite.
Is the Earthquake berserk, Hurricane berserk (is this still planned?), and Sacrifice meditation going to make the 3.0 release?
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Coming from the lil barb vs higher level MU perspective - I find the biggest lack facing the guild as a whole is based around IF. As a modest ranked caster I can easily maintain 8 combat buffs (paladin, 350-500 magics), and maintain some juice for the odd disabler or weapon boosting spell as I swap around (while running a cyclic). Admittedly I feel like I'm fairly adapt at managing mana but it doesn't seem like Barbarians can quite match that level of boostage.
I'm not sure if the best answer is lower costs, higher regen, higher 'base' IF level, (though faster regen I think would be the ticket), but it doesn't seem like its quite there yet.
Samsaren
I'm not sure if the best answer is lower costs, higher regen, higher 'base' IF level, (though faster regen I think would be the ticket), but it doesn't seem like its quite there yet.
Samsaren
>>Damage booster... I know Wildfire was discussed as a possibility. But just to reiterate, I think Barbarians should definitely excel in pure damage. To-hit is great, but other guilds can definitely make a case for having a strong focus on it, while I think something that gives an enormous damage boost isn't out of the question for Barbs.
Would be cool/reasonable if Barbarians had some Heighten Pain-like damage booster, only it would be limited only to attacks they do on the target. So you're not explicitly hitting harder as much as the damage landing on the target is greater.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Would be cool/reasonable if Barbarians had some Heighten Pain-like damage booster, only it would be limited only to attacks they do on the target. So you're not explicitly hitting harder as much as the damage landing on the target is greater.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
>>Would be cool/reasonable if Barbarians had some Heighten Pain-like damage booster, only it would be limited only to attacks they do on the target. So you're not explicitly hitting harder as much as the damage landing on the target is greater.
I'm shocked they don't have a roar for such. Though a called-shot damage boost/'heavy-hit' type attack via expertise would fit as well.
I'm shocked they don't have a roar for such. Though a called-shot damage boost/'heavy-hit' type attack via expertise would fit as well.
I expect some better options for dealing damage via expertise, like weapon attacks that can sacrifice accuracy for more damage, or 'set up' strikes where your first blow knocks away their defending arms (penalty to parry, shield, etc) etc etc.
I'm really excited for the possibilities for expertise/endurance for the respective guilds and think a lot of 'holes' can be plugged via those skills.
I'm really excited for the possibilities for expertise/endurance for the respective guilds and think a lot of 'holes' can be plugged via those skills.
I might be alone in this but I am not terribly excited about the seeming role of berserks as supplemental abilities only. I would much rather have some tradeoffs in order to be a barbarian wrecking machine with full inner fire right now running four berserks feels outside design and just weak compared to running a meditation form berserk combo.
>>I might be alone in this but I am not terribly excited about the seeming role of berserks as supplemental abilities only. I would much rather have some tradeoffs in order to be a barbarian wrecking machine with full inner fire right now running four berserks feels outside design and just weak compared to running a meditation form berserk combo.
I'm also a bit sad-faced that berserks have become supplemental as I always liked them the most thematically, but I can easily see why they were designed as such. Many aspects of berserks were incredibly powerful, and were allowed to be such only because of the silly drawbacks and the fact that they were not stackable with dances.
The inflexibility of the old model was by far my biggest complaint, so I'll take short berserks over only being able to use one buff at a time any day. It also makes sense when you consider that the setup of barbarian abilities and their durations are akin to magic buffs when broken down by category, with berserks being roughly analogous to battle spells, forms to non-battle spells, and meditations to ritual spells. Much easier to balance everything when they have similar designs.
In regards to overall status of 3.0, I'd still like to see the discussed uptick in IF usage allowing us to have a another buff or two active at high levels after mana was uptweaked. I'm also very happy with the upcoming changes, with my only concern being the aforementioned lack of any way to increase damage output that feels nominal.
I'm also a bit sad-faced that berserks have become supplemental as I always liked them the most thematically, but I can easily see why they were designed as such. Many aspects of berserks were incredibly powerful, and were allowed to be such only because of the silly drawbacks and the fact that they were not stackable with dances.
The inflexibility of the old model was by far my biggest complaint, so I'll take short berserks over only being able to use one buff at a time any day. It also makes sense when you consider that the setup of barbarian abilities and their durations are akin to magic buffs when broken down by category, with berserks being roughly analogous to battle spells, forms to non-battle spells, and meditations to ritual spells. Much easier to balance everything when they have similar designs.
In regards to overall status of 3.0, I'd still like to see the discussed uptick in IF usage allowing us to have a another buff or two active at high levels after mana was uptweaked. I'm also very happy with the upcoming changes, with my only concern being the aforementioned lack of any way to increase damage output that feels nominal.
I could see a Barbarian form that improves the suitedness of a weapon, as that directly impacts the damage you can inflict.
In the example below, the form would raise this stiletto's suitedness from dismally(2) to decently(6).
You draw out your stiletto from the chest baldric, gripping it firmly in your right hand.
> app stil
A dull glaes stiletto is a light edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
moderate (7/25) puncture damage
low (3/25) slice damage
dismal (1/25) impact damage
You are certain that the stiletto is superbly (11/13) balanced and is decently (6/13) suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength. You feel as your grip tightens around your weapon and you're better able to apply your strength to it.
You are certain that the stiletto is highly protected against damage (13/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).
The stiletto is made with metal.
You are certain that the stiletto weighs exactly 10 stones.
You are unable to determine the value of the stiletto.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
In the example below, the form would raise this stiletto's suitedness from dismally(2) to decently(6).
You draw out your stiletto from the chest baldric, gripping it firmly in your right hand.
> app stil
A dull glaes stiletto is a light edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
moderate (7/25) puncture damage
low (3/25) slice damage
dismal (1/25) impact damage
You are certain that the stiletto is superbly (11/13) balanced and is decently (6/13) suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength. You feel as your grip tightens around your weapon and you're better able to apply your strength to it.
You are certain that the stiletto is highly protected against damage (13/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).
The stiletto is made with metal.
You are certain that the stiletto weighs exactly 10 stones.
You are unable to determine the value of the stiletto.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
>>I could see a Barbarian form that improves the suitedness of a weapon, as that directly impacts the damage you can inflict.
I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role. Upping the suitedness of a weapon is a neat idea and very in keeping with the guild theme, but the impact on damage output would be nominal at best. I could see this being added as a flat perk to an already-existing form, maybe at the cost of an additional slot.
I understand the GMs probably want to avoid huge damage escalation precedents, as that would rather defeat the purpose of the new damage model. I especially like the idea of a called-shot ability as a perk for expertise.
I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role. Upping the suitedness of a weapon is a neat idea and very in keeping with the guild theme, but the impact on damage output would be nominal at best. I could see this being added as a flat perk to an already-existing form, maybe at the cost of an additional slot.
I understand the GMs probably want to avoid huge damage escalation precedents, as that would rather defeat the purpose of the new damage model. I especially like the idea of a called-shot ability as a perk for expertise.
>>I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role.
This. Besides, we already have an ability that ups both balance and suitedness on a weapon.
>get broad
You get a tempered broadsword with a honed blade from inside your dark leather backpack.
>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage
The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the broadsword is decently balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.
The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
>
Your spirit feels less drained.
>berserk tsunami
Your hands shake in anticpation of releasing the fury of the tsunami down upon your foes!
The broadsword in your hands suddenly feels easier to wield, and more capable of powerful attacks.
>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage
The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the broadsword is reasonably balanced and is soundly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.
The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
I tested it some time ago and noticed absolutely no difference (although it's clearly there) in damage using Tsunami and not using it. It's also very taxing on Inner Fire when not hunting, so I probably wouldn't use it much. What's interesting is that it didn't work on my kertig bastard sword, and when I dropped my weapon I kept getting this message:
>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!
>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!
The broadsword reverted immediately back to its original stats when I dropped it, but I was wondering if the above was just messaging or if it was actually doing something.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
This. Besides, we already have an ability that ups both balance and suitedness on a weapon.
>get broad
You get a tempered broadsword with a honed blade from inside your dark leather backpack.
>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage
The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the broadsword is decently balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.
The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
>
Your spirit feels less drained.
>berserk tsunami
Your hands shake in anticpation of releasing the fury of the tsunami down upon your foes!
The broadsword in your hands suddenly feels easier to wield, and more capable of powerful attacks.
>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage
The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the broadsword is reasonably balanced and is soundly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.
The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
I tested it some time ago and noticed absolutely no difference (although it's clearly there) in damage using Tsunami and not using it. It's also very taxing on Inner Fire when not hunting, so I probably wouldn't use it much. What's interesting is that it didn't work on my kertig bastard sword, and when I dropped my weapon I kept getting this message:
>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!
>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!
The broadsword reverted immediately back to its original stats when I dropped it, but I was wondering if the above was just messaging or if it was actually doing something.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>What's interesting is that it didn't work on my kertig bastard sword, and when I dropped my weapon I kept getting this message:
Wonder if it's similar to the issue with DA and high end forged armor that was recently fixed/updated.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Wonder if it's similar to the issue with DA and high end forged armor that was recently fixed/updated.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
>>I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role. Upping the suitedness of a weapon is a neat idea and very in keeping with the guild theme, but the impact on damage output would be nominal at best. I could see this being added as a flat perk to an already-existing form, maybe at the cost of an additional slot.
The effect of suitedness on damage was upped considerably during 3.0. Testing before/after those changes I saw an enormous increase with my weapon (a heavy suitedness, low balance weapon) on test. Casting RUE for me does not change any of my core damage stats (weapon is already at/near cap) but does increase suitedness by two marks and I 'feel' harder hits. I can't say that with authority since of course I cant see the actual damage numbers but thats my opinion.
The effect of suitedness on damage was upped considerably during 3.0. Testing before/after those changes I saw an enormous increase with my weapon (a heavy suitedness, low balance weapon) on test. Casting RUE for me does not change any of my core damage stats (weapon is already at/near cap) but does increase suitedness by two marks and I 'feel' harder hits. I can't say that with authority since of course I cant see the actual damage numbers but thats my opinion.
>>I fine it a little difficult (though not impossible) to maintain IF, even running one basic form, at low levels (12th) circle) with some of the larger weapons. Larger weapons with 9 second RTs make killing quickly enough to keep up a challenge. If this is as intended, then carry on. I don't really have that big a problem with optimization being a challenge at new levels, and I did say it wasn't impossible, so...
Maintaining a form 24/7 is not intended to be possible for lower-circle character, and neither was it possible in 2.0 until much later in life.
>>I can easily maintain 8 combat buffs (paladin, 350-500 magics), and maintain some juice for the odd disabler or weapon boosting spell as I swap around (while running a cyclic). Admittedly I feel like I'm fairly adapt at managing mana but it doesn't seem like Barbarians can quite match that level of boostage.
If that is the case, we may need to "correct" it. Our goal was around 5 buffs as the soft cap, and 7 for the hard cap. Keep in mind that Barbarians top out at 3 meditations, and 5 forms/berserks + roars, which don't really use enough IF to matter... so they are pushing the cap too in extreme situations.
I also think many Barbarians are having issues because IF was only grandfathered so much. Most abilities benefit up past 500 ranks, leading to longer durations and more potential for stacking in the process.
>> damage booster
If I recall correctly, Berserk tsunami increases the power/balance of your weapons already.
An ability for reducing enemy armor may make sense if I can think of a good way to hook that into the core.
>>I'm also a bit sad-faced that berserks have become supplemental as I always liked them the most thematically
Well, berserk durations are on-par with what many old buff spell durations capped at... folks found them entirely usable as mainline buffs then. I suppose 3.0 durations are just ridiculously spoiling everyone :(
You'll be happy to know that one of the maneuvers will likely increase berserk duration somewhat.
However, isn't possible to make berserks do 4-5 things anymore due to the strict 3.0 rules that are in place. Still, if you want to only berserk you can. They offer plenty of buffs that compliment each other.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Maintaining a form 24/7 is not intended to be possible for lower-circle character, and neither was it possible in 2.0 until much later in life.
>>I can easily maintain 8 combat buffs (paladin, 350-500 magics), and maintain some juice for the odd disabler or weapon boosting spell as I swap around (while running a cyclic). Admittedly I feel like I'm fairly adapt at managing mana but it doesn't seem like Barbarians can quite match that level of boostage.
If that is the case, we may need to "correct" it. Our goal was around 5 buffs as the soft cap, and 7 for the hard cap. Keep in mind that Barbarians top out at 3 meditations, and 5 forms/berserks + roars, which don't really use enough IF to matter... so they are pushing the cap too in extreme situations.
I also think many Barbarians are having issues because IF was only grandfathered so much. Most abilities benefit up past 500 ranks, leading to longer durations and more potential for stacking in the process.
>> damage booster
If I recall correctly, Berserk tsunami increases the power/balance of your weapons already.
An ability for reducing enemy armor may make sense if I can think of a good way to hook that into the core.
>>I'm also a bit sad-faced that berserks have become supplemental as I always liked them the most thematically
Well, berserk durations are on-par with what many old buff spell durations capped at... folks found them entirely usable as mainline buffs then. I suppose 3.0 durations are just ridiculously spoiling everyone :(
You'll be happy to know that one of the maneuvers will likely increase berserk duration somewhat.
However, isn't possible to make berserks do 4-5 things anymore due to the strict 3.0 rules that are in place. Still, if you want to only berserk you can. They offer plenty of buffs that compliment each other.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
<<You'll be happy to know that one of the maneuvers will likely increase berserk duration somewhat. >>
I would still like to have a list of all maneuvers and other abilities yet to come including their slot cost and what they will do.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
I would still like to have a list of all maneuvers and other abilities yet to come including their slot cost and what they will do.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
The testing on the currently released stuff, that I've done, has left me feeling so-so. Not because the design isn't clever, it's mostly due to IF issues. At the moment I can only keep, perhaps one, buff up and occasional roars at circle 57. I'd like to think that at that point in the game I'd be able to keep up 2 buffs with occasional roars, at least. The only thing I can say that is foolish, is the inner fire dropping to 1/3. I can understand it dropping while out of combat, but that's too much of a drop. Yes on the mana side I'm seeing that I must put a LOT more mana into spells to have the same efficacy as 2.0 but mana regens pretty darned fast and I'm never in a case waiting more than a few moments for my next spell. IF depends upon monster gen rate, which can be largely debilitating depending on hunting area.
The abilities are well spread out, I like the way they are selected but have a mild concern people may have to "waste" too many slots on abilities they must buy to get the ones they want to buy. The biggest reason I can't be excited about it is that there are no maneuvers available to try or cost out against my limited slots. I say limited a bit tongue in cheek because I still have plenty left over after acquiring the Barb abilities I want. Compared to my cleric, however, who has a huge number of extra slots after obtaining nearly all spells in the guild and meta magic feats, I feel my Barbarian is a slot-pauper.
Quick Sum- I don't love it, I don't hate it. Adjust IF regen rates / diminish cap. Give me a maneuver or 10 to pick from and try to see if it's worth a slot.
Ram
The abilities are well spread out, I like the way they are selected but have a mild concern people may have to "waste" too many slots on abilities they must buy to get the ones they want to buy. The biggest reason I can't be excited about it is that there are no maneuvers available to try or cost out against my limited slots. I say limited a bit tongue in cheek because I still have plenty left over after acquiring the Barb abilities I want. Compared to my cleric, however, who has a huge number of extra slots after obtaining nearly all spells in the guild and meta magic feats, I feel my Barbarian is a slot-pauper.
Quick Sum- I don't love it, I don't hate it. Adjust IF regen rates / diminish cap. Give me a maneuver or 10 to pick from and try to see if it's worth a slot.
Ram
I will say that me and Gort were messing around with Firekast in test.
The rate at which Firekast regained mana was astounding. My Serenity + Swan barriers really didn't stand much of a chance because after slinging 5+ max spells, he'd regain mana extremely quickly and repeat. He also told us he didn't even bother using his gath mysanda, and that he could pre-charge a lot of orbs to refill it anyway. My Serenity + Swan is totally not worth it if someone could effectively cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.
Not saying Inner Fire should function as easily as mana, but we definitely need more options at refilling it if not an adjustment to how it works.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
The rate at which Firekast regained mana was astounding. My Serenity + Swan barriers really didn't stand much of a chance because after slinging 5+ max spells, he'd regain mana extremely quickly and repeat. He also told us he didn't even bother using his gath mysanda, and that he could pre-charge a lot of orbs to refill it anyway. My Serenity + Swan is totally not worth it if someone could effectively cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.
Not saying Inner Fire should function as easily as mana, but we definitely need more options at refilling it if not an adjustment to how it works.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.
I certainly can't do this even when relying on cambrinth, but that may be the difference between Magic Primary and Magic Secondary. At least I think magic primes regen mana faster than magic secondaries.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
I certainly can't do this even when relying on cambrinth, but that may be the difference between Magic Primary and Magic Secondary. At least I think magic primes regen mana faster than magic secondaries.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
>>I would still like to have a list of all maneuvers and other abilities yet to come including their slot cost and what they will do.
Oh cmon, all that will lead to is wailing and gnashing of teeth as things get adjusted before release. These abilities will be out before unliminited unlearning of Barb abilities goes away.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Oh cmon, all that will lead to is wailing and gnashing of teeth as things get adjusted before release. These abilities will be out before unliminited unlearning of Barb abilities goes away.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
> cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.
As a data point, in order to cast 20 spells at 100 mana with the aid of cambrinth, I needed to slow myself to one cast every 14 seconds. This was in a blazing room. At 12 seconds, I could only manage 14 casts before I was tapped. At 16 seconds, I could go indefinitely. Keep in mind that I was in perpetual roundtime from charging.
As a data point, in order to cast 20 spells at 100 mana with the aid of cambrinth, I needed to slow myself to one cast every 14 seconds. This was in a blazing room. At 12 seconds, I could only manage 14 casts before I was tapped. At 16 seconds, I could go indefinitely. Keep in mind that I was in perpetual roundtime from charging.
one of the things i'm seeing at 61st, is low endurance of roar effect on critters. I can see if you want to make it less on players so you can't stun, but i have a short script which i go thru and roar all 3 roars back-to-back within combat, and by the time I roar the 3rd one the critter usually recovers from the first.
Critter being fought is caracals. script is short and sweet:
#Roar
put face next
pause 1
put scream helm
pause 1
put roar anger
pause 2
put roar embrace
pause 2
put roar wail
pause 2
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
Critter being fought is caracals. script is short and sweet:
#Roar
put face next
pause 1
put scream helm
pause 1
put roar anger
pause 2
put roar embrace
pause 2
put roar wail
pause 2
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
>>Not saying Inner Fire should function as easily as mana, but we definitely need more options at refilling it if not an adjustment to how it works.
What is stopping you from slinging a half-dozen roars at these mages? Just saying... voice level may drop, but you should be able to easily affect him for a while, and longer with ale/masks/cyclone/shriek. It isn't like they use an appreciable amount of IF to restrict their usage.
Barbarian abilities excel at being available quicker than spells. However, Inner Fire is a harder to manage resource than mana. This is the tradeoff for being a Supernatural Tertiary Guild with an excellent combat skillset placement.
As for running out of IF - I can see that being a problem with Serenity. But keep in mind that a capped Serenity + Swan is pretty much immunity from magic for a time. If this doesn't allow you to immobilize, knockdown, get to melee and beat the snot out of a mage... then no amount of IF will.
The Mana Torrent roar (mana drain and regen penalty) could help turn the tide back in your favor. More IF skill will also help. Meditations such as Serenity continue to see improvement from more IF skill, up to 1500 ranks.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
What is stopping you from slinging a half-dozen roars at these mages? Just saying... voice level may drop, but you should be able to easily affect him for a while, and longer with ale/masks/cyclone/shriek. It isn't like they use an appreciable amount of IF to restrict their usage.
Barbarian abilities excel at being available quicker than spells. However, Inner Fire is a harder to manage resource than mana. This is the tradeoff for being a Supernatural Tertiary Guild with an excellent combat skillset placement.
As for running out of IF - I can see that being a problem with Serenity. But keep in mind that a capped Serenity + Swan is pretty much immunity from magic for a time. If this doesn't allow you to immobilize, knockdown, get to melee and beat the snot out of a mage... then no amount of IF will.
The Mana Torrent roar (mana drain and regen penalty) could help turn the tide back in your favor. More IF skill will also help. Meditations such as Serenity continue to see improvement from more IF skill, up to 1500 ranks.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
You probably need more skill and stats (like everyone because it grandfathers low). Embrace will last for 30 seconds when you cap it. 30 seconds is more than enough time to roar 2 other roars, and still get 15 seconds to attack them.
Consider that if a mage is taking 14 seconds to cast a 100 mana spell, they can not stack more than a single debuff before the other has expired.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Consider that if a mage is taking 14 seconds to cast a 100 mana spell, they can not stack more than a single debuff before the other has expired.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>What stops you from keeping 15 orbs in your backpack?
I'm assuming you mean cambrinth orbs. I would say playability. First off holding that many in a pack is a pain. Second trying to cycle through that many orbs in a fight would be ridiculous. If I have that much time to dig each one out then I'm prolly not gonna lose anyway. And finally the cam orbs leak.. more so with more mana. So unless you said lets fight at high noon tomorrow theres next to no plausibility that 15 fully charged orbs were ready to go. Thats like having to swap out a new sword every time you swing it.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
I'm assuming you mean cambrinth orbs. I would say playability. First off holding that many in a pack is a pain. Second trying to cycle through that many orbs in a fight would be ridiculous. If I have that much time to dig each one out then I'm prolly not gonna lose anyway. And finally the cam orbs leak.. more so with more mana. So unless you said lets fight at high noon tomorrow theres next to no plausibility that 15 fully charged orbs were ready to go. Thats like having to swap out a new sword every time you swing it.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
>>The Mana Torrent roar (mana drain and regen penalty) could help turn the tide back in your favor. More IF skill will also help. Meditations such as Serenity continue to see improvement from more IF skill, up to 1500 ranks.
Alright, well I guess the rest will boil down to more Inner Fire skill. Thanks.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Alright, well I guess the rest will boil down to more Inner Fire skill. Thanks.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>well I guess the rest will boil down to more Inner Fire skill.
A barbarian manever that increases your passive IF regen might also help... still working on those.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
A barbarian manever that increases your passive IF regen might also help... still working on those.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I just feel underwhelmed, the rewrite for the guild was great and needed to happen. But somewhere I think it got lost that barbs are the one guild that NEEDS to kill to use their abilities. It's great that they tried to make so you don't have to dance with 4 creatures to learn anymore. But I've found I can barely keep a meditation and a form up for more than 10 mins before I'm out fire and they drop.
Mana Torrent penalizes regen rate as well? Interesting, I did not know that, I'll have to test it out. That makes it much more appealing if the penalty is significant and it lasts a couple minutes.
Speaking of, have inner fire hits returned? I haven't had much time in-game to test recently, but if we can damage mana pools again, I assume at some point that would become a two-way street.
Speaking of, have inner fire hits returned? I haven't had much time in-game to test recently, but if we can damage mana pools again, I assume at some point that would become a two-way street.
