So I was thinking about our guild, and it occurred to me that with this rewrite, we're the only guild who has to pay for every ability we have with "spell slots."

The equivalent would be paladins having to pay slots for smite, lead, and protect. Rangers paying for tracking with slots. Etc, etc.

This is not a complaint, but I have to ask why this is.

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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
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Agreed! Kodius, elucidate please?

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Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Bit Player of M'Riss

We have to spend slots on roars, berserks, meditations and forms. Just so we are talking from the same knowledge set.

And really, I think the number of slots we are given is very generous. It would be nice to have a list of all coming abilities and their cost in slots. Oh and if there are prerequisites. I could more intelligently decide how many slots I can spend on roars, berserks, meditations and forms.

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Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Bit Player of M'Riss

Expertise abilities are slot driven?

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

Barbs do still get some non-slot bonuses, right? Like ability to offhand a HE, throwing blade increased rate, etc.?

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

>ability to offhand a HE

This one's skillset based. Not really fair to call it a barb ability.

>>That would be a good point if the other terts also didn't get similar stuff, on top of their abilities. Paladins get larger shield upgrades, rangers get shield and bow reductions, enhanced hunt, etc.

Paladins get larger shields, you get offhand HE wielding. (will useful someday, I assure you).

Barbarians get no penalty when using small armworn shields with bows.

Barbarians get poach like rangers, without spending a slot.



The only useful ability you are losing is Whilrwind. Choke is a joke - really, who the heck uses this on a regular basis? Why not make it cost 1 slot and be useful?

Warstomp was generally inferior to Roar Anger the Earth due to the huge IF hit. Again, why not make it cost a slot and be useful?

The other maneuvers are enhancements or new abilities entirely. These will be available to other Guilds at the cost of slots for them.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<<Barbarians get no penalty when using small armworn shields with bows.>>

I would like to replace 1 word "bows" with the phrase "two-handed weapons". Bows are 2 handed weapons right and most HT's? Why not give this same perk to melee fighters?

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Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Bit Player of M'Riss

>>I would like to replace 1 word "bows" with the phrase "two-handed weapons". Bows are 2 handed weapons right and most HT's? Why not give this same perk to melee fighters?

I was referring to loading RT penalties. They still get an offensive penalty when firing a bow with a shield, its just small much like the 2 hander penalty.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>As an aside, can you name a handful of abilities a guild gets in DR 3.0 that aren't spell based, or required for circling (such as communes), and run on a non-skill system?

Beseeches, tracking, animal companions, lead, protect, predict, summon familiar, aethereal pathways, transferrence, link, shift, evoke, voice throws, plus some others I probably am forgetting.

All active abilities that are free.

I leave out the thief stuff because it's likely to be converted to a similar system, and the traders because... they already have enough problems.

>required for circling

Considering that our expertise abilities are slated to cost slots, I'm not leaving those out.

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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
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Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance

>There are others I think run off skills, but I'm not positive.

Why does it matter?

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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
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Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance

Part of the problem is Barbarian abilities tend to be combat-facing, and anything that makes you better at combat and is free tends to quickly unbalance things - especially when you have 45-some abilities, 30 of which are combat-boosting already.

I am open for suggestions on other types of things the Guild might be good at.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<<or required for circling (such as communes), and run on a non-skill system?>>

<<Beseeches, tracking, animal companions, lead, protect, predict, summon familiar, aethereal pathways, transferrence, link, shift, evoke, voice throws, plus some others I probably am forgetting.>>

summon familiar is now based on your summoning skill- summoning is required for circle for WM. Larger familiars take more summoning to pull off. Aethereal pathways are basically how summoning is trained now, and are dependent on summoning skill.


shift is quite based on skill - empathy, scholarship, right now mech lore til that comes out of the equation. An empath who first does the quest at 30th <or 20th platside> certainly cannot do all the shifts possible.



voice throw for bards is now based on performance rather than vocals for bards. For thieves its still circle based, but they have to be taught by a bard.




An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

>>Why does it matter?

Because you listed them in response to this, when they do run off of skills?

>>As an aside, can you name a handful of abilities a guild gets in DR 3.0 that aren't spell based, or required for circling (such as communes), and run on a non-skill system?

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

I put the skill based system qualifier in there because most of the 'extra stuff' you're mentioning is specifically required to train the guild skill. Tracking, summoning, empathy, theurgy, all of the stuff you mentioned goes back to training guild required specific skills.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

<<<Kodius would you consider making the meditations flame and power for free? Those don't add any combat prowess and seem more like a useability features for an FE than anything else? (unless I am missing something?)>%


I like this suggestion a lot.

By Free I didn't just mean "not use a slot" They should just be free when you "join barb guild" IMO. No IF usage etc.

Alls they do is let you look at your IF pool and what abilities are active? Isn't that free for everyone else or do other guilds have to use their ability pool to check what abilities they currently have up and how much pool they have left?

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>>Do they currently train? If they train IF skill, you're not going to have them cost nothing to use.

I would rather them not be a form at all. Obviously they shouldn't train.

I want them to be a basic command, like typing health.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>>They should just be free when you "join barb guild" IMO. No IF usage etc.

Not a barb, never been a barb, but it struck me as odd when I read through your abilities list and realized you'll have to spend a slot on what is essentially PERCEIVE or EXHALE SOULSTONE. Didn't bring it up because I supposed I was just missing something and you all were fine with it.

So... yeah. Non-barb vote in favor of letting you guys get that as a 0-slot.

Paladins cant even shield bash with an arm worn shield. While I wouldnt want to cry 'mine' first, I suspect we would get that ability before anyone else..