Incinerate on 12/31/2012 12:36 AM CST
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Question: I just found an Incinerate scroll (in Prime), wondering if the spell is returning, or if I should just use it for kindling? Do people still buy these?

GENT
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 12:41 AM CST
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>>Question: I just found an Incinerate scroll (in Prime), wondering if the spell is returning, or if I should just use it for kindling? Do people still buy these?

My understanding is that Incinerate will remain as a rare form of WM-only Sorcery that cannot be learned permanently. Some scrolls will continue to function after 3.0 so its probably a wait and see. If the scroll still functions after 3.0 is released, I imagine someone will pay well for it.
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 08:48 AM CST
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If you have a spellbook with a scroll leaf put it in there. If you dont find someone who does or will buy it to put in one. So far thats the only way you can save spell scrolls for the conversion. If you are simply holding the scroll when the convert happens the scroll will turn to gibberish.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 10:22 AM CST
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As of the last Character update, Incinerate still turns into Strange Arrow.

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 01:38 PM CST
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>>If you have a spellbook with a scroll leaf put it in there. If you dont find someone who does or will buy it to put in one. So far thats the only way you can save spell scrolls for the conversion. If you are simply holding the scroll when the convert happens the scroll will turn to gibberish.

Unless something changed, spell scrolls that contain spells that "survived" the 3.0 conversion will stay functional as scrolls, but any other scroll turns to gibberish. Putting them in spellbooks doesn't help your ability to save them for 3.0, at best they just let you keep it from saying "it's gibberish," even though it still won't function anymore in 3.0

For example, at least when things went out in Plat, compost and vigil scrolls survived but fire shard and telekinetic throw didn't. Now, all those spells still exist, but whatever back end stuff was going on made the FS and TKT scrolls "disconnect" from the spell data on the backend.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 01:44 PM CST
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<For example, at least when things went out in Plat, compost and vigil scrolls survived but fire shard and telekinetic throw didn't. Now, all those spells still exist, but whatever back end stuff was going on made the FS and TKT scrolls "disconnect" from the spell data on the backend.

Thank god compost survived.
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 01:52 PM CST
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I have SET scrolls that turned to gibberish in loose scroll form but stayed viable in my spellbook. My TF scrolls did the same.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 02:08 PM CST
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>>Thank god compost survived.

Hey, I didn't mind when it had a TM component!

>>I have SET scrolls that turned to gibberish in loose scroll form but stayed viable in my spellbook. My TF scrolls did the same.

Huh, how about that. So you can actually invoke the spells in the spellbook?



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 02:17 PM CST
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>>Huh, how about that. So you can actually invoke the spells in the spellbook?

Yeah. Well keep in mind it tells me I already know it due to the preview but yes. If I recall they tried to mess with making scrolls convert but there was an issue somewhere so the best they could do (or at least the best they could do at the time.. its been stated any scroll work is way low on the list) was through the spellbooks. Every scroll I had that wasnt in my book after said change went bye bye. So I put them all in and when they refreshed the test server last time they all all stayed. Well except the spells that are gone anyhow. I sorta wish that there was a way for scrolls that no longer work due to the spell being pulled just turned into a random new scroll. Doesnt matter what just anything.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 02:26 PM CST
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How much do Incinerate scrolls normally go for? I got rid of mine, but may have been fleeced. :)

Not really interested in the cash, just curious.

GENT
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 02:27 PM CST
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Also, DARKANGEL, I apparently deleted all my Ranger spell info, so I'll need to get those again. What all are you looking for?

I can get spell descriptions, casting messaging... anything else?

GENT
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 02:35 PM CST
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>>I can get spell descriptions, casting messaging... anything else?

Basically cast messages and a copy of the 3.0 ranger spellbook and Im golden.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
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Re: Incinerate on 12/31/2012 05:07 PM CST
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From my tests, scrolls for spells that are retained only turned to gibberish if they are inside a container in a vault. On my Moon Mage, a SET scroll in his backpack retained, but a SET scroll in his spellbook case in his vault did not. Pages in spellbooks stayed active only for retained spells. Some disappeared, some changed to a different spell.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 03:18 PM CST
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<<As of the last Character update, Incinerate still turns into Strange Arrow.>>

Wait, does this mean that Incinerate is completely gone? Or is this a bug. I will be -very- disapointed if the only form of Blackfire in the realm has been removed. Its a significant part of the lore of the guild.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 03:53 PM CST
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I was under the impression that it hasn't been available to PCs for a while. I remember, possibly incorrectly, something about Caelumia burning the last scroll?
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 03:55 PM CST
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>>I was under the impression that it hasn't been available to PCs for a while. I remember, possibly incorrectly, something about Caelumia burning the last scroll?

She may have burned an Incinerate scroll, but they drop in the treasure system.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 03:59 PM CST
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It is available, I just found one a couple days ago. (Hence why I started this thread). I already sold it though.

GENT
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 04:03 PM CST
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I haven't heard of anyone finding one in 3.0 yet. That doesn't mean they don't exist, just that they haven't been found. might not have been rewritten yet. Would have to get some GM to poke their head in and comment.


<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 04:39 PM CST
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>>Wait, does this mean that Incinerate is completely gone? Or is this a bug. I will be -very- disapointed if the only form of Blackfire in the realm has been removed. Its a significant part of the lore of the guild.

I don't think Armifer is a fan of the current iteration of Blackfire, which includes Incinerate, and he has plans to rewrite the lore to make it something better for 3.0

Last I recall, he was thinking of it as a self-nuke that took everything near the mage along with it. But that was forever ago.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 07:12 PM CST
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As of last time it was talked about, Incinerate will still exist in some form, though it may or may not make 3.0

I suspect the scrolls changing is due to the way spells are being stored in 3.0

At least at one point, it was scheduled to be the WM equivalent of a suicide attack, though not much has been said about it for a while.

Blackfire in general will be part of Hylomorphic Sorcery, though whether it will expand beyond Incinerate (for PCs) is still up in the air.

Sources:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:Teleologic_Corruption_-_12/16/2012_-_22:19
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:Flare_Cantrip_-_05/01/2012_-_22:48



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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 07:28 PM CST
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>whether it will expand beyond Incinerate (for PCs) is still up in the air

I haven't heard any indication they plan to make more Blackfire spells, and they previously indicated they wouldn't expand Blackfire. Last I remember was Hylomorphic will be our Sorcery, and Blackfire will begin and end with Incinerate.

Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 07:55 PM CST
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<<I haven't heard any indication they plan to make more Blackfire spells, and they previously indicated they wouldn't expand Blackfire. Last I remember was Hylomorphic will be our Sorcery, and Blackfire will begin and end with Incinerate.>>

If it is gone to never return, that is all kinds of disapointing. Doesn't have tocome out right away but it should return.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 08:29 PM CST
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>If it is gone to never return, that is all kinds of disapointing

That's not what I said... Incinerate will be the only Blackfire spell. That's what I said.

Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 09:29 PM CST
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>If it is gone to never return, that is all kinds of disapointing. Doesn't have tocome out right away but it should return.

It's more complicated then that.

Blackfire is a horribly destructive force that required direct application of the void to stop it.

So either you nerf it badly enough that it really is a shadow of Blackfire, or you have to add in such nasty penalties for its use that despite its power, it won't be the immediate go to spell.

This is just inherent to the nature of the spell, and it's not going to change if you wait.



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Combat Balance List:
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Re: Incinerate on 01/03/2013 10:24 PM CST
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I am painfully and personally aware of the lore for the spell, what it took to be destroyed, et cetera.



I don't want the spell so I can LOL BLACKFIREBURNZ people. I want it in the world for the misdirection and the back and forth that it can cause when role played correctly. Elriic had a long brewing cold and some times hot war with Magmus and Meanne that ran for years and was centered around blackfire.

Hell I could care less if the spell blew the caster up. The point is that removing it guts some very playable lore the game had.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 12:05 AM CST
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>>Blackfire is a horribly destructive force that required direct application of the void to stop it.

bah stupid bardarians...
Ok, listen up, History lesson-

100,000,000,000 years ago when the Immortals formed the first proto-elves from poop for the amusment of Humans, elemental and holy magic users lived together like hippies- mostly because empaths, rangers, moon mages, bards, paladins, traders, barbs, and necros, or even DR would exist in some form til after this story.
The gods (and dragons!) feared this unholy union of mage and mage, and the colorful sorcery backlash it could make. Smartly instead of casting off the ones that worshipped, fed, and groomed the Gods; they cast off the ones' that farmed the fields and hunted the creatures.
One night, one of the gods had attacked in the form of a great owl and tricked the elementalists into following him into the woods, they became lost and spread to the wind, and would never return.

Then, 100,000 years ago or so, ancient warrior mage was still very unskilled at much outside of trying to turn a section of this plane, into an elemental plane of some sort. Eventually fire mages got bored, and decided to develop new fire.

Blackening fire, by trying to burn fire with fire didn't work so well, until it was discovered like a little absinthe, a little sorcery goes a long way, and poof! blackfire with nice purple-blue highlights.
Eventually all the other fire mages got jealous and either joined them or were converted to non-believing ash.
Running out of things to burn, the cabal, quickly rebrands and picks up some street cred by taking over some rival gangs territories.

Eventually their reign lasts for several hundred millenia!! or like 2 years, 3 months, and 4 days, but the ferries were a lot slower back then, and the gondola wasn't built, and probably noone really knew or cared without an effecient gweth network or buddylist.

Upset at all the sorcery, the great owl appeared again and randomly selected 6 mages, and gave them more sorcery that would stop magic with magic by making magic that made magic go away. As two of the mages pondered this, their heads exploded, and secrets of electricity and aether would be lost until about 15-20 years ago.

Their reign was eventually ended by the group of 4 assassins who murdered most of the members in their sleep. A few brave fire mages struggled on, but were now match for this new combined might of the gestault Warrior Mage known as Arcane-Devastator.

As the last of the cabalists ironically burned inide their desert tower, all the pages of their libraries and research spread to the wind, most written on conveniently fire-proof scrolls. One of the assassins revealed that he too had mastered the ebontide tiki torch, then everyone revealed they too had mastered it secretly all along.
As they looked at each other and laughed. Then they suddenly threw their arms up and jumped into the air and froze as the credits began to roll.

A deep voice tells us the Lord of the Void, the War Mage guild council, and Path of Power would go on to censor this and other events, skew details, or 'take care of a problem' to prevent any shame or potential harm of coming to the guild or any of it's guildlings, but mostly to cover the elders asses and bury the dirt under the dirt.

true story, I swear to god.

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 12:11 AM CST
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best post yet. :-)


<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 12:33 AM CST
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And that's when Gauthus hires Kssarh to "educate" Powerhaus.



Weapons for Sale:
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Combat Balance List:
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 02:47 AM CST
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hahaha, that was a great post Powerhaus. I was laughing throughout the post.


p.s. Tavern Troupe, make this into a performance. I'd actually stop making rucksack work orders to come see it :D

Blackguard Danoryiel

"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 02:57 AM CST
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I don't think there's anything in there that's incorrect...

I always felt Blackfire is just targetted unfocused sorcery, obviously dabbling in sorcery is bad(sorcerous backlashfire as well as dirtying the elements), and not taught by the Guild for a reason(its not even an element!), not to mention the taboo history.
It's like Shifting, except everyone understands how dangerous and powerful it can be.

The guild does have a great PR propaganda department: Lord of the (Elemental Planar) Void, Blackfire Cabal, Incinerate, Path of Power; it all sounds so esotericlly evil and mysterious.
Look how deliciously evil blackfire sounds in their History books. Honestly it was flashy but more of a yawner, unless you hit a vital area.

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 06:57 AM CST
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>p.s. Tavern Troupe, make this into a performance. I'd actually stop making rucksack work orders to come see it :D

Cut, Paste, Save. I can see it being a rather enjoyable performance.

Plus, I've been totally curious as to what role blackfire will have in 3.0 and what will happen to prominent figures like Yhaman who have been known to use it with a level of skill.



You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 09:54 AM CST
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>>So either you nerf it badly enough that it really is a shadow of Blackfire, or you have to add in such nasty penalties for its use that despite its power, it won't be the immediate go to spell.

IIRC, blackfire in 3.0 will essentially work like a self-nuke, where the caster dies but takes everything down along for the ride.

Of course, since people now only forget scrolls when dying, it probably makes using it as a spell scroll rather... funny.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 10:01 AM CST
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This reminds me of what I've always thought about the stories, for one that they were as most stories exagrated to a degree, but here is my bigger part. Sure Blackfire was really nasty, what they didn't say in the stories was that the Warrior Mage was a High Circle Character and those he hit with his blackfire we're Low Circle Characters, or commoner type people.

---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 01:03 PM CST
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>>IIRC, blackfire in 3.0 will essentially work like a self-nuke, where the caster dies but takes everything down along for the ride.

That would be hilarious.



You've reached the uninformative help match I haven't written yet.

http://i.imgur.com/fBq8R.jpg
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 01:08 PM CST
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I vote for a giant blackfire owl that swoops in grabs the caster, target, and one other random person in its talons and beak and rains blackfire feathers and exploding pellets down on everything else in a several room HUNTable radius.

I'd keep the timer the prevents you from recasting in the same room for a minute or so, so it's not totally OP or anything.

Worth the spell slot and instant loss of spell on death.

You toss your shining gaharzen from hand to hand.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 01:44 PM CST
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All kidding aside, it seems punitive to take it out right now.. Take it out when there's a replacement; at least to my knowledge its not hurting things, is it?
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 02:52 PM CST
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There are two Blackfire spells I want to do, a revamped Incinerate and an old idea from the Rigby area titled, prosaically enough, Dark Heart of Incineration.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 03:16 PM CST
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oh i remember that one from explosive decompression days...

Dark Heart of Incineration - how could it not be evil?

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 03:26 PM CST
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I'm 100% up for throwing out ideas/suggestions on Blackfire if anyone wanted to rehash those discussions. I support it, would like it to powerfully reflect its lore (I think this is possible in a way that won't disrupt game balance), and hope it has a place in the game.



Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: Incinerate on 01/04/2013 08:46 PM CST
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<<oh i remember that one from explosive decompression days...>>

Har! another great blast from the past, finally glad to hear of this Incineration direction.

Rehlyn
Silent Guardian

A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
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