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>>Do all 600 of my Outfitting count and I end up with 600 + 700 = something around 900, or do only my first 100 Outfitting ranks count and I end up with 100 + 700 = something around 710, or do none of my Outfitting ranks count and I just get exactly 700?
At this point, that's the thinking. We still may put a rank cap on it (that is, if you've earned more than X ranks, you can't split mech into it), that's still being discussed.
>>Double Dipping
It's definitely true that you CAN get experience in both skills at once, and eventually combine them. However, those smaller ranks are really just not worth very much compared to the higher ones, so if you DO manage to get your mech to 200 before the split, you're going to see a pretty dismal gain (at 900 ranks you'd gain like 56 if you converted it all at once). That gain is pretty worthless compared to the amount of effort you've gone through to make sure that you've kept both of them going. The cost of origami paper ALONE might not be worth the money you've lost from the high-level work orders you could have been doing.
>>At the end of the day, there aren't any GOOD solutions.
This is the root of it. If we force people to declare they want none of their mech in a skill before they can learn it, it essentially prevents them from trying the system before they make that decision. On the other hand, when we give people a chance to try the systems out, you run into the double-dipping scenario above. What we've got right now is pretty reasonable.
>>We can train the crafting skill as high as we want before converting Mech into it, but will we keep all those ranks?
So the idea of losing all but 100 ranks or some such is one I hadn't considered - Absorbing the upper ranks into your bonus pool and only combining up to 100 ranks of the target skill might be an option. I'm more tempted to just put a cap on when you can transfer, though. 150 ranks (As an example) is plenty to get a feel for a system. I'll keep thinking on adding a limit or something.
Also, I fixed it so that it doesn't nuke your mech when you convert now. CONVERT RESTORE will revert your mech ranks and wipe your crafting skills so you can try again.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>So the idea of losing all but 100 ranks or some such is one I hadn't considered - Absorbing the upper ranks into your bonus pool and only combining up to 100 ranks of the target skill might be an option. I'm more tempted to just put a cap on when you can transfer, though. 150 ranks (As an example) is plenty to get a feel for a system. I'll keep thinking on adding a limit or something.
What about you can transfer all of your mech up to your current mech skill into a skill, and the remainder is left for a different skill?
Let's say you have 500 mech, and train up to 200 forging before enchanting comes out. You decide you like forging better than enchanting, so you put everything you can into forging. Then you have 500 forging, and 200 mech remaining for something else.
It's sort of the same idea of losing it, except it's not gone. Could be a limit of current mech skill + 100 even, or something like that.
>Let's say you have 500 mech, and train up to 200 forging before enchanting comes out. You decide you like forging better than enchanting, so you put everything you can into forging. Then you have 500 forging, and 200 mech remaining for something else.
I like that idea.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
I like that idea.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
>So the idea of losing all but 100 ranks or some such is one I hadn't considered - Absorbing the upper ranks into your bonus pool and only combining up to 100 ranks of the target skill might be an option. I'm more tempted to just put a cap on when you can transfer, though. 150 ranks (As an example) is plenty to get a feel for a system. I'll keep thinking on adding a limit or something.
I think this idea is only fair if you can guarantee the other 2 disciplines will be out in a month or two. With the bonus drain, it won't take long to blow past the first 100 ranks in the 3 existing disciplines. The people putting all their mech into one skill are gaining coin so the trade off is, if you don't convert you can 'double dip' on the skills (but like you said, not to a very large extent since the low level ranks don't account for much) OR you can convert and sell wares thereby earning coin. Take your choice, coin now or gain a few extra ranks for the future.
I plan to train all 5 disciplines but my career will be enchanting (assuming it's as awesome as Kodius has made the other systems). Why should I not be allowed to train forging and outfitting as high as I want now? If enchanting comes out and isn't a great system, I'll be penalized for being patient and training other skills in the meantime because I'd lose all the ranks over X if I change my mind and decided to become a forger or outfitter? I don't think that's a good plan at all, unless X is at least 500 ranks (not like you can make the top tier stuff with 500 ranks).
Just my thoughts.
I think this idea is only fair if you can guarantee the other 2 disciplines will be out in a month or two. With the bonus drain, it won't take long to blow past the first 100 ranks in the 3 existing disciplines. The people putting all their mech into one skill are gaining coin so the trade off is, if you don't convert you can 'double dip' on the skills (but like you said, not to a very large extent since the low level ranks don't account for much) OR you can convert and sell wares thereby earning coin. Take your choice, coin now or gain a few extra ranks for the future.
I plan to train all 5 disciplines but my career will be enchanting (assuming it's as awesome as Kodius has made the other systems). Why should I not be allowed to train forging and outfitting as high as I want now? If enchanting comes out and isn't a great system, I'll be penalized for being patient and training other skills in the meantime because I'd lose all the ranks over X if I change my mind and decided to become a forger or outfitter? I don't think that's a good plan at all, unless X is at least 500 ranks (not like you can make the top tier stuff with 500 ranks).
Just my thoughts.
<<< I will free admit that I am all for gaming the system to gain any unintended min/max advantage I can find.>>>
You sir, are a dirty dirty cheater, and I will report you till the end of days... Honestly and in all truth, if Apu doesnt think your method of "gaming the system" is working its probably not. Unless this is a reverse Apu gaming the system and plans to do the opposite of what he's saying.... Think on that cuz I can't cuz I'm driggin.
I'm reporting Apu for the "reverse gaming the system mech abuse"... Um maybe? And Leiland too for passive aggresive nerf abuse.
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
You sir, are a dirty dirty cheater, and I will report you till the end of days... Honestly and in all truth, if Apu doesnt think your method of "gaming the system" is working its probably not. Unless this is a reverse Apu gaming the system and plans to do the opposite of what he's saying.... Think on that cuz I can't cuz I'm driggin.
I'm reporting Apu for the "reverse gaming the system mech abuse"... Um maybe? And Leiland too for passive aggresive nerf abuse.
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
<<not surprisingly, this selfish attitude only comes from the people lucky enough for their favored crafting discipline to be released already>>
Sort of this.
Engineering is already out there. You cannot now make lockpicks with engineering, although that is the craft it is going into <tinkering i think>.
However, having moved my mech ranks into engineering platside, and not being able to carve even a stout lockpick <because it still "works" with mech - means I'll be damned if i'll make the same mistake in prime. I'm not moving ANY ranks in prime until new Lockpick crafting is out and done. <training back up in mech with origami in plat so i can still make picks>.
And - shifting still takes mech into account. So not moving any ranks with my empaths either in either instance, even though she's all set up for tailoring once they no longer have mech count for shifting, plus as a lore prime she wants to career in remedies.
now, my trader has moved some into forging <for blacksmithing>, and my barb and paladin have moved ALL of theirs into forging, and are gung ho into career weapon and armorsmithing repectively. My necro has moved some into engineering, but is only taking a few techs, at least until bonecarving comes out, as she wants to do other things too, so learns those from ground up, to be as self-reliant as possible.
Not taking any careers until Alchemy <poisons> comes out. And my mages are all waiting for some part of enchanting.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
Sort of this.
Engineering is already out there. You cannot now make lockpicks with engineering, although that is the craft it is going into <tinkering i think>.
However, having moved my mech ranks into engineering platside, and not being able to carve even a stout lockpick <because it still "works" with mech - means I'll be damned if i'll make the same mistake in prime. I'm not moving ANY ranks in prime until new Lockpick crafting is out and done. <training back up in mech with origami in plat so i can still make picks>.
And - shifting still takes mech into account. So not moving any ranks with my empaths either in either instance, even though she's all set up for tailoring once they no longer have mech count for shifting, plus as a lore prime she wants to career in remedies.
now, my trader has moved some into forging <for blacksmithing>, and my barb and paladin have moved ALL of theirs into forging, and are gung ho into career weapon and armorsmithing repectively. My necro has moved some into engineering, but is only taking a few techs, at least until bonecarving comes out, as she wants to do other things too, so learns those from ground up, to be as self-reliant as possible.
Not taking any careers until Alchemy <poisons> comes out. And my mages are all waiting for some part of enchanting.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
> So the idea of losing all but 100 ranks or some such is one I hadn't considered
?? You proposed that idea yourself 9 months ago: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:New_Circle_Requirements_-_A_Precursor_-_03/09/2012_-_20:01
?? You proposed that idea yourself 9 months ago: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:New_Circle_Requirements_-_A_Precursor_-_03/09/2012_-_20:01
>>?? You proposed that idea yourself 9 months ago: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:New_Circle_Requirements_-_A_Precursor_-_03/09/2012_-_20:01
sshhhh, if you start pointing out how the crazy 3.0 stress levels is causing memory loss they'll stop fixing bugs.
sshhhh, if you start pointing out how the crazy 3.0 stress levels is causing memory loss they'll stop fixing bugs.
>Tsarenzi:
>What about you can transfer all of your mech up to your current mech skill into a skill, and the remainder is left for a different skill?
>Let's say you have 500 mech, and train up to 200 forging before enchanting comes out. You decide you like forging better than enchanting, so you put everything you can into forging. Then you have 500 forging, and 200 mech remaining for something else.
I really, really like this idea too. Seems a perfect compromise between allowing people to enjoy the existing systems now, and preventing someone from leveraging massive ranks post launch. I hope it's easy to code :D
>GERSTENJ2:
>And - shifting still takes mech into account. So not moving any ranks with my empaths either in either instance, even though she's all set up for tailoring once they no longer have mech count for shifting, plus as a lore prime she wants to career in remedies.
Wow I completely forgot that Shift uses Mech... do you know what will replace it? That makes things a bit more complicated.
~ Player of Farman et al.
>What about you can transfer all of your mech up to your current mech skill into a skill, and the remainder is left for a different skill?
>Let's say you have 500 mech, and train up to 200 forging before enchanting comes out. You decide you like forging better than enchanting, so you put everything you can into forging. Then you have 500 forging, and 200 mech remaining for something else.
I really, really like this idea too. Seems a perfect compromise between allowing people to enjoy the existing systems now, and preventing someone from leveraging massive ranks post launch. I hope it's easy to code :D
>GERSTENJ2:
>And - shifting still takes mech into account. So not moving any ranks with my empaths either in either instance, even though she's all set up for tailoring once they no longer have mech count for shifting, plus as a lore prime she wants to career in remedies.
Wow I completely forgot that Shift uses Mech... do you know what will replace it? That makes things a bit more complicated.
~ Player of Farman et al.
<<Wow I completely forgot that Shift uses Mech... do you know what will replace it? That makes things a bit more complicated.>>
Melete posted platside that nothing will replace it once the full conversion takes place, because none of them really made sense for shifting. <she didn't say what the skillchecks would actually BE though. But right now in plat its sort of piecemeal, because we have 3.0, but not alchemy or enchanting or the other crafts <artistry,bone-carving,tinkering,etc> that are supposed to come out. So shifting is still looking at mech ranks.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
Melete posted platside that nothing will replace it once the full conversion takes place, because none of them really made sense for shifting. <she didn't say what the skillchecks would actually BE though. But right now in plat its sort of piecemeal, because we have 3.0, but not alchemy or enchanting or the other crafts <artistry,bone-carving,tinkering,etc> that are supposed to come out. So shifting is still looking at mech ranks.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
I must have missed this in the fray...
>convert 20 mech into forging
>>You are about to convert 20 of your 567 ranks of Mech Lore into your Forging skill, leaving you with 65 ranks in Forging and 547 ranks of Mech Lore. You will lose 45 TDPs from this conversion.
When did the TDP thing happen? Now, after the last wipe I had gained some 1400 TDPs and played around with CONVERT without spending the TDPs. Haven't really been on Test since then, just logged in and spent my TDPs, now I see this. Not sure if that's related or not.
>convert 20 mech into forging
>>You are about to convert 20 of your 567 ranks of Mech Lore into your Forging skill, leaving you with 65 ranks in Forging and 547 ranks of Mech Lore. You will lose 45 TDPs from this conversion.
When did the TDP thing happen? Now, after the last wipe I had gained some 1400 TDPs and played around with CONVERT without spending the TDPs. Haven't really been on Test since then, just logged in and spent my TDPs, now I see this. Not sure if that's related or not.
>When did the TDP thing happen?
It was a day or two after the new convert verb was release. I posted about a bug that was setting mech to 0 even if you only covert 1 rank and that my tdps were messed up after that so Socharis added the TDP line so you could see the changes it would cause. Also, the TDP verb will recalculate you TDPs based on you current skills. So you can use that if something gets messed up.
And just in case you missed it since it's not in the HELP, CONVERT RESTORE will set you back to 0 crafting skills and original mech skill.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
It was a day or two after the new convert verb was release. I posted about a bug that was setting mech to 0 even if you only covert 1 rank and that my tdps were messed up after that so Socharis added the TDP line so you could see the changes it would cause. Also, the TDP verb will recalculate you TDPs based on you current skills. So you can use that if something gets messed up.
And just in case you missed it since it's not in the HELP, CONVERT RESTORE will set you back to 0 crafting skills and original mech skill.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
In plat at least, CONVERT is not taking into account any ranks you have in the target skill when telling you what your results will be after the split.
I didn't actually try the conversion to see if it left me with only 6 ranks in forging, since I'm not in test.
>convert 5 mech into forging
You are about to convert 5 of your 48 ranks of Mech Lore into your Forging skill, leaving you with 6 ranks in Forging and 43 ranks of Mech Lore.
If this is what you want to do, please re-enter this command in the next 10 seconds.
>exp forging
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Forging: 27 69.72% clear (0/34)
I didn't actually try the conversion to see if it left me with only 6 ranks in forging, since I'm not in test.
>convert 5 mech into forging
You are about to convert 5 of your 48 ranks of Mech Lore into your Forging skill, leaving you with 6 ranks in Forging and 43 ranks of Mech Lore.
If this is what you want to do, please re-enter this command in the next 10 seconds.
>exp forging
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Forging: 27 69.72% clear (0/34)
