Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
>> FA is so you can't tend - untend - tend - untend in rapid succession.
Philosophically that mechanism is a complete failure; My barb worked his way up to 981 FA with 2 slight bleeders.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
His point is that FA training is already ridiculously easy and passive, so tending-untending would actually be more work than tending your slight bleeders once every fifteen minutes. As a policy, restricting tend-untend does not accomplish its goal and the problem remains.
Reading comprehension, do it before posting.
Reading comprehension, do it before posting.
>>His point is that FA training is already ridiculously easy and passive, so tending-untending would actually be more work than tending your slight bleeders once every fifteen minutes.
:psyduck:
Basic logic fail.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
:psyduck:
Basic logic fail.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
My bad, you're right on that. You were talking about the pulsing experience gain and I thought you were referring to the RT associated with untending. Misunderstanding on my part.
My point was that there's no reason for someone to continually tend-untend for the best gains given there's no apparent ceiling on how much FA can be learned from 2 basic bleeders, with even less effort put into maintaining them.
Why not put FA on the same model as climbing? Award experience for a successful tend and lock gain on a given body part for a period of time. More specifically, get rid of the RTs for successful actions or limit/delimit them by FA skill.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
My point was that there's no reason for someone to continually tend-untend for the best gains given there's no apparent ceiling on how much FA can be learned from 2 basic bleeders, with even less effort put into maintaining them.
Why not put FA on the same model as climbing? Award experience for a successful tend and lock gain on a given body part for a period of time. More specifically, get rid of the RTs for successful actions or limit/delimit them by FA skill.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
The original parts of this thread may have poofed into the ether, so I don't know if this is a direct hijack or not.
I'm having trouble maintaining pet bleeders in 3.0, because even with max vit a hit to a bleeding area tends to get exacerbated rather badly. While I appreciate the concept of hitting people in areas that are notably wounded having a notable impact, I question the ability to train the skill now once you pass the range of most anatomy charts.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I'm having trouble maintaining pet bleeders in 3.0, because even with max vit a hit to a bleeding area tends to get exacerbated rather badly. While I appreciate the concept of hitting people in areas that are notably wounded having a notable impact, I question the ability to train the skill now once you pass the range of most anatomy charts.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>I'm having trouble maintaining pet bleeders in 3.0, because even with max vit a hit to a bleeding area tends to get exacerbated rather badly. While I appreciate the concept of hitting people in areas that are notably wounded having a notable impact, I question the ability to train the skill now once you pass the range of most anatomy charts.
I'm thinking that 'pet bleeders' wasn't something the GMs wanted to maintain as a standby to train, so if this reduces them, their going to be fine with it.
I'd guess that anatomy charts of higher levels is what is going to be wanted. A bit of the festivals have had ones that range quite high.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I'm thinking that 'pet bleeders' wasn't something the GMs wanted to maintain as a standby to train, so if this reduces them, their going to be fine with it.
I'd guess that anatomy charts of higher levels is what is going to be wanted. A bit of the festivals have had ones that range quite high.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>I'm thinking that 'pet bleeders' wasn't something the GMs wanted to maintain as a standby to train, so if this reduces them, their going to be fine with it.
It wouldn't surprise me, but it's rather difficult to train without them. As of now, I can't really train first aid at a reasonable pace.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
It wouldn't surprise me, but it's rather difficult to train without them. As of now, I can't really train first aid at a reasonable pace.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
<<I'm thinking that 'pet bleeders' wasn't something the GMs wanted to maintain as a standby to train, so if this reduces them, their going to be fine with it.>>
<<just sounds to me that you can't train it "as much" in combat.>>
the main problem with this is that there is one particularly offensive spell that if you use it in your arsenal of combat spells - you need to maintain an active bleeder, and not only that, but you need to leave it untended for it to properly "work". <namely, blood burst>.
this will not go well.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
<<just sounds to me that you can't train it "as much" in combat.>>
the main problem with this is that there is one particularly offensive spell that if you use it in your arsenal of combat spells - you need to maintain an active bleeder, and not only that, but you need to leave it untended for it to properly "work". <namely, blood burst>.
this will not go well.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
>>Just sounds to me that you can't train it "as much" in combat.
If there was a way to lock first aid out of combat without having to keep a bleeder around which inevitably ends up having it also be in combat by the innate nature of not always being able to easily get one I'd be okay with that, too.
>>the main problem with this is that there is one particularly offensive spell that if you use it in your arsenal of combat spells - you need to maintain an active bleeder, and not only that, but you need to leave it untended for it to properly "work". <namely, blood burst>.
Has nothing to do with it for me. Strictly talking about wanting to be able to train first aid in a reasonable manner.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
If there was a way to lock first aid out of combat without having to keep a bleeder around which inevitably ends up having it also be in combat by the innate nature of not always being able to easily get one I'd be okay with that, too.
>>the main problem with this is that there is one particularly offensive spell that if you use it in your arsenal of combat spells - you need to maintain an active bleeder, and not only that, but you need to leave it untended for it to properly "work". <namely, blood burst>.
Has nothing to do with it for me. Strictly talking about wanting to be able to train first aid in a reasonable manner.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous.
I totally agree, but that said I can't really move FA with the intent to use it as a guild req without pet bleeders.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I totally agree, but that said I can't really move FA with the intent to use it as a guild req without pet bleeders.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>Like wear 3 types of armor even though one is CLEARLY better for me (HP and Paladin) cause otherwise im just screwing myself out of TDPS?
Actually, not that as much, because there's at least a reasonable explanation for that - You want to get better at using multiple armors at once, for whatever reason. That fits with some RP. Repeatedly bandaging and unbandaging a simple wound makes somewhat less sense. Even though repetition does breed skill, tending what amounts to an accidental knife wound over and over again doesn't make you a surgeon. At the most ridiculous end of the spectrum, you have people trying to skin a bobcat with a pike, which is utterly silly and doesn't make you better at skinning, it just makes you a weirdo.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Actually, not that as much, because there's at least a reasonable explanation for that - You want to get better at using multiple armors at once, for whatever reason. That fits with some RP. Repeatedly bandaging and unbandaging a simple wound makes somewhat less sense. Even though repetition does breed skill, tending what amounts to an accidental knife wound over and over again doesn't make you a surgeon. At the most ridiculous end of the spectrum, you have people trying to skin a bobcat with a pike, which is utterly silly and doesn't make you better at skinning, it just makes you a weirdo.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DR Socharis,
Your replies today have been hilarious as well as extremely informative. I wholeheartedly agree.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Your replies today have been hilarious as well as extremely informative. I wholeheartedly agree.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>You could if getting injured to the point of being a little bit bloody after a while were a normal part of at-level combat.
Or if there were more viable ways to train first aid.
More injuries isn't a solution, mainly because bleeder damage gets notably exacerbated when they're hit and 3.0 is a "you're going to get hit more!" setup. The reason I'm having trouble with FA in the first place is because those light hits that generally don't do damage while you're above 90% vit (understandably) do damage to areas with bleeders, so those commonplace light hits add up quickly.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Or if there were more viable ways to train first aid.
More injuries isn't a solution, mainly because bleeder damage gets notably exacerbated when they're hit and 3.0 is a "you're going to get hit more!" setup. The reason I'm having trouble with FA in the first place is because those light hits that generally don't do damage while you're above 90% vit (understandably) do damage to areas with bleeders, so those commonplace light hits add up quickly.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Actually I have some ideas for First Aid that this conversation has sparked into my mind.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>DR-Socharis: Repeatedly bandaging and unbandaging a simple wound makes somewhat less sense. Even though repetition does breed skill, tending what amounts to an accidental knife wound over and over again doesn't make you a surgeon.
I don't disagree with your stance that keeping "pet bleeders" for training makes no sense from an RP perspective, but I just want to make sure that this skill will remain practical to train (particularly for non-Empaths).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I don't disagree with your stance that keeping "pet bleeders" for training makes no sense from an RP perspective, but I just want to make sure that this skill will remain practical to train (particularly for non-Empaths).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Absolutely. Playability trumps realism every time. The best situation is when we can have both, but sometimes game balance forces us to make sacrifices to simulation.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I know from other posts you've got blinders on for anything non-DR3.0 finish line for release. But can you tell me which folder I should shove my First Aid concepts into for viewing later?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Probably here: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Abilities,%20Skills%20and%20Magic/Survival%20Skills%20-%20Staying%20Alive/view
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>I'm not super familiar with Outfitting/tanning, but wouldn't the availability of skins/bones materials also be impacted by the time-to-kill changes? Would it be necessary to look at the amount of material required for tanning/carving projects?
Keep in mind that Skins and Bones are much easier/faster to obtain, generally speaking, than ore for forging. I will probably increase the yields by 1 (about 20%) to alleviate concerns. I may need to find a new unit of measurement than yards :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Keep in mind that Skins and Bones are much easier/faster to obtain, generally speaking, than ore for forging. I will probably increase the yields by 1 (about 20%) to alleviate concerns. I may need to find a new unit of measurement than yards :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>like debilitation at the high end, for barbs! right?
>>- Buuwl
Relatives have had me pinned down. I'm going to throw in a large modifier to this sometime in the next few days...
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>- Buuwl
Relatives have had me pinned down. I'm going to throw in a large modifier to this sometime in the next few days...
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>Isn't it a training issue, rather than a finished products issue? If we're going to sink so much time into the creation of the system, it should be functionally trainable, at least as much so as mining.
Well, mats are available for purchase which allows infinite training and profit potential. Still, I think a slight increase may be needed.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Well, mats are available for purchase which allows infinite training and profit potential. Still, I think a slight increase may be needed.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Keep in mind that Skins and Bones are much easier/faster to obtain, generally speaking, than ore for forging. I will probably increase the yields by 1 (about 20%) to alleviate concerns. I may need to find a new unit of measurement than yards :P<<
True skins may be faster to obtain, but by the time you scrape them and tan them I'd say it's about even as is for time invested per unit of manufacture. I might have to search a bit more to find an ore of say iron but when I get it, I can easily get enough iron for several pieces of armor. yes I then have to smelt it but that honestly doesn't take that long at all. Nowhere near as long as waiting for skins to tan.
>>True skins may be faster to obtain, but by the time you scrape them and tan them I'd say it's about even as is for time invested per unit of manufacture.
Not really. When mining, and smelting that's ALL you're doing. Scraping IIRC is now effectively no time. Curing is done such that it doesn't consume any of your available time. You can continue to gather more skins to cure, while other skins are curing. The fact that skins take longer to cure than for you to smelt isn't really relevant. You need to look at total time, and what you are trading for that time. In curing, you are trading NOTHING. You can do other things while curing.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Not really. When mining, and smelting that's ALL you're doing. Scraping IIRC is now effectively no time. Curing is done such that it doesn't consume any of your available time. You can continue to gather more skins to cure, while other skins are curing. The fact that skins take longer to cure than for you to smelt isn't really relevant. You need to look at total time, and what you are trading for that time. In curing, you are trading NOTHING. You can do other things while curing.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Not really. When mining, and smelting that's ALL you're doing. Scraping IIRC is now effectively no time. Curing is done such that it doesn't consume any of your available time. You can continue to gather more skins to cure, while other skins are curing. The fact that skins take longer to cure than for you to smelt isn't really relevant. You need to look at total time, and what you are trading for that time. In curing, you are trading NOTHING. You can do other things while curing.<<
Ok I can see this point quite readily.
Meh, go with hands, MEASURE already uses it.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Should use the Medieval equilvalent of Ells. From the Merriam & Webster online dictionary Ell is a former English unit of length (as for cloth) equal to 45 inches (about 1.14 meters); also : any of various units of length used similarly.
Origin of Ell: Middle English eln, from Old English; akin to Old High German elina ell, Latin ulna forearm, Greek ōlenē elbow, Sanskrit aratni
First Known Use: before 12th century. From the Latin "Ulna". A unit of linear measure equal to 45 inches. The word ell seems to have been variously taken to represent the distance from the elbow or from the shoulder to the wrist or to the finger-tips, while in some cases a "double ell" has superseded the original measure, and has taken its name. English ell = 45 in. Scots = 37.2 in. Flemish = 27 in.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
Origin of Ell: Middle English eln, from Old English; akin to Old High German elina ell, Latin ulna forearm, Greek ōlenē elbow, Sanskrit aratni
First Known Use: before 12th century. From the Latin "Ulna". A unit of linear measure equal to 45 inches. The word ell seems to have been variously taken to represent the distance from the elbow or from the shoulder to the wrist or to the finger-tips, while in some cases a "double ell" has superseded the original measure, and has taken its name. English ell = 45 in. Scots = 37.2 in. Flemish = 27 in.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
>>Should use the Medieval equilvalent of Ells. From the Merriam & Webster online dictionary Ell is a former English unit of length (as for cloth) equal to 45 inches (about 1.14 meters); also : any of various units of length used similarly.
If he's looking for something that scales better for smaller units than yards, why use a unit that is longer than yards?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
If he's looking for something that scales better for smaller units than yards, why use a unit that is longer than yards?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
<Keep in mind that Skins and Bones are much easier/faster to obtain, generally speaking, than ore for forging. I will probably increase the yields by 1 (about 20%) to alleviate concerns. I may need to find a new unit of measurement than yards :P
Why not just make a rare bones, skins system that allowed you to obtain a random (skin) (bone) from whatever means they will be obtained in the future. I don't think that another craft should be nerfed which it probably would just because the materials are easier to gain.
Why not just make a rare bones, skins system that allowed you to obtain a random (skin) (bone) from whatever means they will be obtained in the future. I don't think that another craft should be nerfed which it probably would just because the materials are easier to gain.
