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Hello,
After the first few days of this year's, HE I have a few thoughts. Before I get to put those out, I will freely admit that I am a bit of a glass half full kind of person. That being said, when things go better than expected I am happy to admit that I was wrong and things are indeed good and wonderful. For example, I was one of those who thought that Rexp was a bad idea when we first heard about it. I felt that it wouldn't benefit the target segment of the player base that it was intended to address. I was wrong, in fact, it benefited the entire community. I just added that to point out my thought process.
First, let's talk about the amazing things about the new Hallow's Eve.
1.) The entire area actually feels like it should. What I mean is, it feels like a reclusive Island full of shut-ins should. The atmosphere of the entire place
just reads so well and I love it. I love the detail in it.
2.) I love that the number of shops that got addressed, so many of the Hallow's Eve shops in years past felt like they were just there because they were
there before.
3.) Kind of part of #2, however, I felt that it was so amazing that it deserved its own number. The new shops are fun because they give us a chance to
experience and interact with a new culture in Elanthia.
4.) I also enjoyed not knowing where my character was when she first set foot on the Island. We all play and love a very old game, new places can really add a
new and fresh feeling to the world.
Second, lets look at the less than amazing parts.
1.) Maybe we have become spoiled in years past with alterations, however, there is a feeling that the staff is attempting to limit the amount of work done in
this aspect of the fest. I understand that this work can be stressful for the staff, I would be willing to bet that the staff sometimes feels as positively
about interacting with the customers as the customers feel about interacting with the staff. That being said, the expectation was set and reinforced by the
staff over the years with the sheer volume of work done by the artisans. If this is in fact the intent, had I known this I would have just tossed all my
apples into the corn maze basket and went with that. Sure that hoarders dream of a gift is amazing, but I could have got it at next year's corn maze.
2.) The amount of goose-turd hue on things is nauseating. Yes, I know what color it is and I think it's a very nice shade of green. Kind of feels as if whoever
is using this color wants to make everyone look like a group of giant turds. Almost like a militant quest to ugly up the population. Words are important,
we play a game the relies solely on the first impression gained by reading.
Overall, I think that the fest is amazing. Thanks for reading and sorry for the wall of text.
Agalea - really good post, and that pretty much echoes my thoughts exactly on the fest.
I wanted to expand a bit on her point about the goose turds and such. I was rather put off not only by the goose turds, but by a number of other items at Cultured Attire and Male Persuasion due to a combination of oddball food-related colors (such as goose turd, but also including pumpkin, avocado, cotton candy-hued, and several others). The real unfortunate problem with these colors is that while the colors may accurately describe legitimate colors, they, they have unfortunate connotations that make the outfits more "jokey" and unlikely to be worn. Most of these items are beautiful items other than the colors.
Now, I know that not every item is for every character. Some characters WANT loudly colored clothes, and sometimes people want to wear humorous things. That's great, and there should be a place for them, but I'd like to see a bit more in the way of nice, serious clothes. It's the same thing as all of the TM foci designed after desserts in previous fests. When I see too much stuff like this, it makes me feel like the GM involved didn't actually want to be doing the work, so they're punishing the players by making us look ridiculous in order to have the cool thing. Heck, if you guys charged for alterations, I'd almost be thinking that it was designed to drive business in that direction.
All that said, Andreshlew is a welcome change of pace, and I appreciate the work that was put in by all of the involves GM's.
- Saragos
I wanted to expand a bit on her point about the goose turds and such. I was rather put off not only by the goose turds, but by a number of other items at Cultured Attire and Male Persuasion due to a combination of oddball food-related colors (such as goose turd, but also including pumpkin, avocado, cotton candy-hued, and several others). The real unfortunate problem with these colors is that while the colors may accurately describe legitimate colors, they, they have unfortunate connotations that make the outfits more "jokey" and unlikely to be worn. Most of these items are beautiful items other than the colors.
Now, I know that not every item is for every character. Some characters WANT loudly colored clothes, and sometimes people want to wear humorous things. That's great, and there should be a place for them, but I'd like to see a bit more in the way of nice, serious clothes. It's the same thing as all of the TM foci designed after desserts in previous fests. When I see too much stuff like this, it makes me feel like the GM involved didn't actually want to be doing the work, so they're punishing the players by making us look ridiculous in order to have the cool thing. Heck, if you guys charged for alterations, I'd almost be thinking that it was designed to drive business in that direction.
All that said, Andreshlew is a welcome change of pace, and I appreciate the work that was put in by all of the involves GM's.
- Saragos
I think both Agalea and Saragos had some good points.
I want to expand a little bit on how I felt about Cultured Attire.
I was really excited to see this shop on the list of merchants. I've always loved digging into lore and seeing it expanded. And on a personal level, having started playing an Elf character over the past year, seeing this shop coming back out and to be updated felt like a good way to help introduce to the character to more the heritage around Elves.
Instead we got what really felt like someone who did not want to do the shop. There was no feeling of the lore being expanded. We got eye-searing lime green clothing for snow Elves. Goose turd-hued gowns for Mountain Elves. Just to name a couple. This didn't actually feel like anything related to Elves, it felt like…well a joke. And I understand that not every item is meant to be for everyone, but this shop could have been amazing and appealing to a great number of players, both those who play Elves and those that don't. Instead we got a weird mishmash of weird options that don't make sense outside of a shop for Elves, and make even less sense inside it.
Player of Eruwyn
I want to expand a little bit on how I felt about Cultured Attire.
I was really excited to see this shop on the list of merchants. I've always loved digging into lore and seeing it expanded. And on a personal level, having started playing an Elf character over the past year, seeing this shop coming back out and to be updated felt like a good way to help introduce to the character to more the heritage around Elves.
Instead we got what really felt like someone who did not want to do the shop. There was no feeling of the lore being expanded. We got eye-searing lime green clothing for snow Elves. Goose turd-hued gowns for Mountain Elves. Just to name a couple. This didn't actually feel like anything related to Elves, it felt like…well a joke. And I understand that not every item is meant to be for everyone, but this shop could have been amazing and appealing to a great number of players, both those who play Elves and those that don't. Instead we got a weird mishmash of weird options that don't make sense outside of a shop for Elves, and make even less sense inside it.
Player of Eruwyn
>>This didn't actually feel like anything related to Elves, it felt like…well a joke. And I understand that not every item is meant to be for everyone, but this shop could have been amazing and appealing to a great number of players, both those who play Elves and those that don't. Instead we got a weird mishmash of weird options that don't make sense outside of a shop for Elves, and make even less sense inside it.
I fully sympathize with anyone who feels that a shop they were looking forward didn't really speak to them. I went to see what changed from how the other Cultured Attire shops worked, because I honestly didn't know what the major visual shifts were myself, and I was actually surprised with how consistent Cultured Attire has worked throughout the years. The general makeup/notes that make the outfits what they are tends to be generally the same, except materials/colors get shifted around (as, for better or worse, one might actually expect when it comes to fashion!).
I mention all this because it might be a fun RP opportunity for someone to actually have their character take offense about the current fashion trends. Someone lamenting how Snow Elves are ditching their darker-hued robes for darker-hued surcoats ("Can you IMAGINE"), and that ultramarine is a much more appealing vibrant color, let alone for a robe, over picking lime green for a surcoat ("What madman decided that I wanted to look like a pickled vegetable?!").
You can go even further with it, too. In the event you have an opportunity to work with an alterer, make a big to-do about how much your character hates that someone decided goose turd-hued seasilk was the go-to color for Mountain Elf women this year, and that's why you want to go for a more traditional [color here]. When you get what you want, make the effort to tell everyone how [alterer name here] understands what it means to be a Snow Elf way better than that addle-headed fool who dyes the fabrics at Cultured Attire.
Mountain Elf
Snow Elf
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I fully sympathize with anyone who feels that a shop they were looking forward didn't really speak to them. I went to see what changed from how the other Cultured Attire shops worked, because I honestly didn't know what the major visual shifts were myself, and I was actually surprised with how consistent Cultured Attire has worked throughout the years. The general makeup/notes that make the outfits what they are tends to be generally the same, except materials/colors get shifted around (as, for better or worse, one might actually expect when it comes to fashion!).
I mention all this because it might be a fun RP opportunity for someone to actually have their character take offense about the current fashion trends. Someone lamenting how Snow Elves are ditching their darker-hued robes for darker-hued surcoats ("Can you IMAGINE"), and that ultramarine is a much more appealing vibrant color, let alone for a robe, over picking lime green for a surcoat ("What madman decided that I wanted to look like a pickled vegetable?!").
You can go even further with it, too. In the event you have an opportunity to work with an alterer, make a big to-do about how much your character hates that someone decided goose turd-hued seasilk was the go-to color for Mountain Elf women this year, and that's why you want to go for a more traditional [color here]. When you get what you want, make the effort to tell everyone how [alterer name here] understands what it means to be a Snow Elf way better than that addle-headed fool who dyes the fabrics at Cultured Attire.
Mountain Elf
| HE 425 (2017) | HE 428 (2018) | HE 436 (2020) |
| Katamba-black leather longcoat with pitch pearls at the cuffs | marine blue leather longcoat with folded back cuffs | striated sepia and tawny-hued leather longcoat with folded back cuffs |
| plain ivory linen tunic | slate blue linen tunic | chestnut-hued mohair tunic edged with gold braid |
| flowing ink-black linen shirt trimmed with onyx at the neck | flowing lapis-blue linen shirt trimmed with hollow onyx circles at the neck | terracotta-hued linen shirt with voluminous leg-o-mutton sleeves |
| narrow black belt with an etched abalone buckle | wide black belt with an etched silver buckle | wide chocolate-brown leather belt with a topaz-bordered silver buckle |
| pair of plain off-white linen breeches | pair of cinereous linen breeches with turned up cuffs | pair of buttery soft mahogany-hued cordovan breeches with turned up cuffs |
| pair of ebon leather high boots with crimson piping | pair of deep black leather high boots with ultramarine piping along the cuffs | pair of dark brown leather knee boots with wine-red piping along the seams |
| matte orchid-hued kau leathers edged with gold trim around the seams | matte sepia kau leathers with intricate azure outlining |
Snow Elf
| HE 425 (2017) | HE 428 (2018) | HE 436 (2020) |
| mother-of-pearl and palladium spiral knotwork chain supporting tiny larimar flowers | tanzanite and gold spiral knotwork chain supporting tiny jade flowers | spiral knotwork gold chain with tiny jade snowcatcher lotus blossoms |
| polished pastel blue mistglass bangle inset with intricate orichalcum Albreda's heart roses | polished gold zeltfish bone bangle etched with wending raevelthorn | crystalline taigo bangle etched with wending snowcatcher lotus blossoms |
| lavishly embroidered sleeveless ivory silk surcoat | sleeveless caramel-hued satin surcoat | sleeveless eye-searing lime green satin surcoat |
| thin robe of silvery-grey steelsilk embellished with opal | thin robe of ultramarine mistsilk embellished with onyx | thin robe of glossy pistachio-hued avia embellished with metallic gold thread |
| reinforced niveous helei leather coat with a close-fitting waist | reinforced viridian helei leather coat with a close-fitting waist | |
| reddish sandalwood spear wrapped with strips of e'erdream | reddish sandalwood spear wrapped with strips of e'erdream |
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>It's the same thing as all of the TM foci designed after desserts in previous fests.<<
>I'm asking this mostly out of curiosity, what TM foci were sold at previous fests?
>GM Winna
I actually misspoke, it was ritual foci. I was thinking of one and typed the other. Ritual Addiction has had a lot of goofy items in the past.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(5)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(2)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(4) - this was perhaps the worst one, filled almost entirely with goofy options.
There have been some silly TM foci and the MT events, though. Let me give an example of what kind of bugs me. This is just the first thing that came to mind - I could fill a ton of space talking about this. At Corn Maze 428, these items were available:
massive vengeance ruby fireball TM Focus lesser grade, large damage increase 300
round sungold ducky with swirling charoite eyes TM Focus lesser grade, large damage increase 300
Now, was there a comparable item that wasn't quite so silly next to the sungold ducky? Yes, sure. But I have to wonder how many of the duckies were sold. It's possible that I'm very, very wrong here, in which case... carry on. But it seems to me that there are very few people that play "goofy all the time" characters the way there used to be. The fireball is a little silly, the ducky is very silly. Those items could have been something much more interesting to more characters. Rods, staves, wands, orbs, crystals, etc made out of various materials. Materials or designs that are related to the the elements or various guilds. Something more covert nercro-y, perhaps? There's not a lot of that. Various carved icons of holy animals... All of these are items which might have had more interesting options to more people.
I know that alterations exist. I'm not salty about that - I've gotten all the alterations I want and have thoroughly customized my character. I'm just kind of mystified at some of the silliness of the choices. I remember at one of the events in the past something for Bards was teased, possibly an auction, and I was excited... until it ended up being an instrument that you could hit people with. Great, another silly option.
Like I said, I could be wrong. It could be that people love all these silly options. But my sense is that far more people *put up with* the silliness for the sake of the items or the materials rather than appreciate it, and that effort is being put in a direction that just doesn't interest people very much. I don't know - you guys have your sales figures for MT and can presumably see what's selling at the fests as well. But my hunch is that you'll see some stark differences if you look closely.
- Saragos
>I'm asking this mostly out of curiosity, what TM foci were sold at previous fests?
>GM Winna
I actually misspoke, it was ritual foci. I was thinking of one and typed the other. Ritual Addiction has had a lot of goofy items in the past.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(5)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(2)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Vatari%27s_Ritual_Addiction_(4) - this was perhaps the worst one, filled almost entirely with goofy options.
There have been some silly TM foci and the MT events, though. Let me give an example of what kind of bugs me. This is just the first thing that came to mind - I could fill a ton of space talking about this. At Corn Maze 428, these items were available:
massive vengeance ruby fireball TM Focus lesser grade, large damage increase 300
round sungold ducky with swirling charoite eyes TM Focus lesser grade, large damage increase 300
Now, was there a comparable item that wasn't quite so silly next to the sungold ducky? Yes, sure. But I have to wonder how many of the duckies were sold. It's possible that I'm very, very wrong here, in which case... carry on. But it seems to me that there are very few people that play "goofy all the time" characters the way there used to be. The fireball is a little silly, the ducky is very silly. Those items could have been something much more interesting to more characters. Rods, staves, wands, orbs, crystals, etc made out of various materials. Materials or designs that are related to the the elements or various guilds. Something more covert nercro-y, perhaps? There's not a lot of that. Various carved icons of holy animals... All of these are items which might have had more interesting options to more people.
I know that alterations exist. I'm not salty about that - I've gotten all the alterations I want and have thoroughly customized my character. I'm just kind of mystified at some of the silliness of the choices. I remember at one of the events in the past something for Bards was teased, possibly an auction, and I was excited... until it ended up being an instrument that you could hit people with. Great, another silly option.
Like I said, I could be wrong. It could be that people love all these silly options. But my sense is that far more people *put up with* the silliness for the sake of the items or the materials rather than appreciate it, and that effort is being put in a direction that just doesn't interest people very much. I don't know - you guys have your sales figures for MT and can presumably see what's selling at the fests as well. But my hunch is that you'll see some stark differences if you look closely.
- Saragos
>>I actually misspoke, it was ritual foci. I was thinking of one and typed the other. Ritual Addiction has had a lot of goofy items in the past.<<
I'm glad that I hadn't overlooked any TM foci previously released in game!
>>Now, was there a comparable item that wasn't quite so silly next to the sungold ducky? Yes, sure. But I have to wonder how many of the duckies were sold.<<
Isn't that the goal though? To have some serious items and some sillier items to try to cater to all types of styles? I remember Ritual Addiction as usually having a good mix of styles. Having a few more light-hearted options doesn't make it an offensive shop.
I can definitely see the problem if we only offered X type of items and not Y. If every single shop at HE or every single item at the various MT prize rooms were "silly" and not "serious" or vice versa, I absolutely agree that we have a problem.
We have more than 100 shops at 2020 HE and if we didn't cover the span of various styles, we'd be doing a poor job. We have Siegery Shop at HE and it's a shop that only sells siegery toys. Some people find siegery to be unfun and useless because it doesn't further experience gain. Does that mean the shop shouldn't exist because it's not functional for training purposes?
GM Winna
I'm glad that I hadn't overlooked any TM foci previously released in game!
>>Now, was there a comparable item that wasn't quite so silly next to the sungold ducky? Yes, sure. But I have to wonder how many of the duckies were sold.<<
Isn't that the goal though? To have some serious items and some sillier items to try to cater to all types of styles? I remember Ritual Addiction as usually having a good mix of styles. Having a few more light-hearted options doesn't make it an offensive shop.
I can definitely see the problem if we only offered X type of items and not Y. If every single shop at HE or every single item at the various MT prize rooms were "silly" and not "serious" or vice versa, I absolutely agree that we have a problem.
We have more than 100 shops at 2020 HE and if we didn't cover the span of various styles, we'd be doing a poor job. We have Siegery Shop at HE and it's a shop that only sells siegery toys. Some people find siegery to be unfun and useless because it doesn't further experience gain. Does that mean the shop shouldn't exist because it's not functional for training purposes?
GM Winna
> I can definitely see the problem if we only offered X type of items and not Y. If every single shop at HE or every single item at the various MT prize rooms were "silly" and not "serious" or vice versa, I absolutely agree that we have a problem.
That makes sense if you look at it as a binary - some are silly, some aren't. The point I'm trying to make is that I feel the silly items are really a niche item, for a handful of characters. It's not that they shouldn't exist, but more that they exist in much greater proportion than they probably should. Imagine if, instead, we were talking about pirate-themed clothing, and people were complaining that there was pirate stuff everywhere in way greater volume than the setting implied. Are pirates legit to dress up as? Sure! Does it really make sense to have that much pirate stuff everywhere? No, not really. And giving a single niche such a spotlight ends up crowding out other niches that might be worth exploring.
> We have more than 100 shops at 2020 HE and if we didn't cover the span of various styles, we'd be doing a poor job. We have Siegery Shop at HE and it's a shop that only sells siegery toys. Some people find siegery to be unfun and useless because it doesn't further experience gain. Does that mean the shop shouldn't exist because it's not functional for training purposes?
Yes, but there are relatively few shops that sell just "cool clothes" for a wealthy pseudo-rennaisance character that aren't overly geared towards a particular race or theme for those who want to wear clothes that aren't gowns. All the King's Men is new and good, and then we have the two shops that we're discussing. It's definitely possible that I've missed some shops, but it's not as if there's a dozen other shops that fill the same niche.
I don't want to oversell this. It's not an enormous problem. I'm not trying to tar and feather anyone over the issue. It just seems a bit much, and I hope you guys will keep an eye on it for the next fest.
- Saragos
That makes sense if you look at it as a binary - some are silly, some aren't. The point I'm trying to make is that I feel the silly items are really a niche item, for a handful of characters. It's not that they shouldn't exist, but more that they exist in much greater proportion than they probably should. Imagine if, instead, we were talking about pirate-themed clothing, and people were complaining that there was pirate stuff everywhere in way greater volume than the setting implied. Are pirates legit to dress up as? Sure! Does it really make sense to have that much pirate stuff everywhere? No, not really. And giving a single niche such a spotlight ends up crowding out other niches that might be worth exploring.
> We have more than 100 shops at 2020 HE and if we didn't cover the span of various styles, we'd be doing a poor job. We have Siegery Shop at HE and it's a shop that only sells siegery toys. Some people find siegery to be unfun and useless because it doesn't further experience gain. Does that mean the shop shouldn't exist because it's not functional for training purposes?
Yes, but there are relatively few shops that sell just "cool clothes" for a wealthy pseudo-rennaisance character that aren't overly geared towards a particular race or theme for those who want to wear clothes that aren't gowns. All the King's Men is new and good, and then we have the two shops that we're discussing. It's definitely possible that I've missed some shops, but it's not as if there's a dozen other shops that fill the same niche.
I don't want to oversell this. It's not an enormous problem. I'm not trying to tar and feather anyone over the issue. It just seems a bit much, and I hope you guys will keep an eye on it for the next fest.
- Saragos
