Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
We need to beat this one to death. If all you do is sit around forging all day and don't care about the experience time wasted for the rest of us, chime in and use an orb when you hit 34/34. These skills need to be trainable for lore-prime crafters (yes, it's just great that the rest can keep up...if you want to keep things evenly trained for everyone, make a new skillset).
Crafting experience is terrible, even if we are in the right reagent/item range. More than half an hour for one skill is monotonous and antithetical to causing game involvement.
I am aware that some tweaks need to be made. But I have some things I would like to finish up first. That being said, Mind Locking skills is no longer a requirement. Folks really need to learn that training for 15 minutes and then RPing for 30 while it drains has some merit...
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>Folks really need to learn that training for 15 minutes and then RPing for 30 while it drains has some merit...
This would imply that our hamster wheels aren't circular... can't... adapt... to... reality.
_____________________________________________________________
Caution: may scream about HUGE DRAMATIC AMAZING SIGNIFICANT loss
This would imply that our hamster wheels aren't circular... can't... adapt... to... reality.
_____________________________________________________________
Caution: may scream about HUGE DRAMATIC AMAZING SIGNIFICANT loss
>>Folks really need to learn that training for 15 minutes and then RPing for 30 while it drains has some merit...
Heh I wish I could train for 15 minutes and have enough exp in my pool that it would take 30 minutes to drain. Right now if you train for 15 minutes, it only takes like 10-15 minutes to drain all the exp
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Heh I wish I could train for 15 minutes and have enough exp in my pool that it would take 30 minutes to drain. Right now if you train for 15 minutes, it only takes like 10-15 minutes to drain all the exp
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Apu, the king of making tools for the rest of us can't move forging to drainable levels.
New smithing is cool, has been out awhile, and can pay if we have suppliers with ore. Braiding use to take awhile if our agility was low for the skill level. Origami creation has been updated with trainable items and kept current for years. Maxed out and protected quick gear, proper stats for speed increases, and correct level item choosing does not make new crafting trainable. I would gladly go back to the unoriginal ways to train crafts over the new crafting system (god's eyes for outfitting, bar making for forging, braiding for engineering, origami for artistry, tinctures for alchemy).
I gotta ask do armor, hinderance, burden level, overall weight independent of stats, or random room choice affect how well we craft?
New smithing is cool, has been out awhile, and can pay if we have suppliers with ore. Braiding use to take awhile if our agility was low for the skill level. Origami creation has been updated with trainable items and kept current for years. Maxed out and protected quick gear, proper stats for speed increases, and correct level item choosing does not make new crafting trainable. I would gladly go back to the unoriginal ways to train crafts over the new crafting system (god's eyes for outfitting, bar making for forging, braiding for engineering, origami for artistry, tinctures for alchemy).
I gotta ask do armor, hinderance, burden level, overall weight independent of stats, or random room choice affect how well we craft?
>>Apu, the king of making tools for the rest of us can't move forging to drainable levels.
Well let's not go too overboard - I certainly can mindlock forging but it takes >45 minutes. That's pretty bad, but it's a TON faster than Trading or Appraisal. I do find it a bit amusing that learning rates on crafting skills are suddenly getting so much attention, when they're actually fairly fast for Lore skills (except for Outfitting before RTs were lowered). You could multiply all Trading exp by three and it would still be slower than any crafting skill to train
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Well let's not go too overboard - I certainly can mindlock forging but it takes >45 minutes. That's pretty bad, but it's a TON faster than Trading or Appraisal. I do find it a bit amusing that learning rates on crafting skills are suddenly getting so much attention, when they're actually fairly fast for Lore skills (except for Outfitting before RTs were lowered). You could multiply all Trading exp by three and it would still be slower than any crafting skill to train
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Your appraisal training is bad because you have run out of bundles that train. That has more to do with appraisal having a restrictive timer and the item ranges not having been updated. I have to blame AC for the restrictions (I remember appraising every piece of armor one after the other and learning on each one).
To say that your >45 minutes and my >hour are somehow within the realm of trainable is ridiculous. The exp granted by the crafting system seems to have been exclusively tested by lore tertiaries/secondaries. When a barbarian remotely can keep his crafting skill of choice on par with the lore primaries, something is amazingly broken. Lore finally has something worth training and we can't capitalize on it.
To say that your >45 minutes and my >hour are somehow within the realm of trainable is ridiculous. The exp granted by the crafting system seems to have been exclusively tested by lore tertiaries/secondaries. When a barbarian remotely can keep his crafting skill of choice on par with the lore primaries, something is amazingly broken. Lore finally has something worth training and we can't capitalize on it.
> That being said, Mind Locking skills is no longer a requirement. Folks really need to learn that training for 15 minutes and then RPing for 30 while it drains has some merit...
I don't think that's the issue. People talk about time-to-lock not because they're obsessed with locking, but because it's a convenient metric for measuring exp gain and comparing across skills.
For instance, it takes me 12.5 minutes to lock Tactics and 70 minutes to lock Forging. Meaning Tactics trains 5.5 times as fast as Forging. No matter what mindstate I'm aiming for, I'll reach it 5.5 times faster with Tactics. And if I train for 15 minutes and then go RP, I'll have 5.5 times as long before Tactics hits empty.
I don't think that's the issue. People talk about time-to-lock not because they're obsessed with locking, but because it's a convenient metric for measuring exp gain and comparing across skills.
For instance, it takes me 12.5 minutes to lock Tactics and 70 minutes to lock Forging. Meaning Tactics trains 5.5 times as fast as Forging. No matter what mindstate I'm aiming for, I'll reach it 5.5 times faster with Tactics. And if I train for 15 minutes and then go RP, I'll have 5.5 times as long before Tactics hits empty.
>>>
It is pretty absurd. My moon mage is training about 10 skills now that I added forging. I have to sacrifice pretty much everything to to train forging. Any non lore character i can keep about 20-28 skills moving.>>
But your learning faster as a lore prime who cares if it stops "moving" if its already drained. As a barbarian I cycle through weapons and often some will drain completely, but I'd rather that then not drain as fast and still be "moving". I can keep almost every weapon moving at once as a monies, but would rather drain em as a barbarian. Alter your training, and don't obsess over mind lock and moving.
It is pretty absurd. My moon mage is training about 10 skills now that I added forging. I have to sacrifice pretty much everything to to train forging. Any non lore character i can keep about 20-28 skills moving.>>
But your learning faster as a lore prime who cares if it stops "moving" if its already drained. As a barbarian I cycle through weapons and often some will drain completely, but I'd rather that then not drain as fast and still be "moving". I can keep almost every weapon moving at once as a monies, but would rather drain em as a barbarian. Alter your training, and don't obsess over mind lock and moving.
<<As a barbarian I cycle through weapons and often some will drain completely>>
The difference is we're talking about doing one thing over and over not cycling through different skills. What we are describing is akin to a barbarian dancing with the hardest thing she can survive and having her primary weapon at 20 to 25/34 (if that) after half an hour. This same barbarian would eventually fill a draining pool and switch to a second weapon only to find the first one drains completely out while working on the second weapon. Another example would be cycling two weapons every few hits only to have both at 10/34 an hour later (if you can get over the hump of 1/34 first). Smithing already has a giveaway to stronger characters, how is that not enough?
The new crafting system should have had lore primaries in mind when design was set. Many Bards and Empaths have magic, armor, and weapons that rival their lore skills. Appraise had a timer put on it that restricts appraising other objects for experience. We lost the musical lore trees with this last expansion--usage was never developed anyways so the splits didn't make sense. Teaching and scholarship melded into a single skill. If you have to be a ten year character with tyrium gear, 100 strength, and infinite prepared (mastercrafted) ingots to fill a forging pool in half an hour, why even pretend the system wasn't designed to exclude lore classes?
Lore has taken a back seat for a long time. Having lore as a primary focus is great for RP, not much else. Players have been asking for experience improvements since the new forging was put in place, best we've seen is a ~2s drop in action time for outfitting. All the crafting skills have a common core, we just need somebody with the keys to care enough to up the exp/action.
I understand the difficulty of certain master-craftsmen who have been around since the beginning and do not want to lose their status as the highest skilled crafters. Most have lore bonus pools that will double their experience for months. RPA and other exp bonuses can be bought/traded for if it is that important. We're talking about LORE skills not weapons, other guilds have had the HUGE ADVANTAGES of learning bonuses for combat skills since the beginning.
<<My moon mage is training about 10 skills now that I added forging... i can keep about 20-28 skills moving (without crafting)>>
<<But your learning faster as a lore prime who cares if it stops "moving">>
Moon mages are not lore primary, they live and die with the moons. The significance was the drastic change in progression when adding one of the new skills.
The difference is we're talking about doing one thing over and over not cycling through different skills. What we are describing is akin to a barbarian dancing with the hardest thing she can survive and having her primary weapon at 20 to 25/34 (if that) after half an hour. This same barbarian would eventually fill a draining pool and switch to a second weapon only to find the first one drains completely out while working on the second weapon. Another example would be cycling two weapons every few hits only to have both at 10/34 an hour later (if you can get over the hump of 1/34 first). Smithing already has a giveaway to stronger characters, how is that not enough?
The new crafting system should have had lore primaries in mind when design was set. Many Bards and Empaths have magic, armor, and weapons that rival their lore skills. Appraise had a timer put on it that restricts appraising other objects for experience. We lost the musical lore trees with this last expansion--usage was never developed anyways so the splits didn't make sense. Teaching and scholarship melded into a single skill. If you have to be a ten year character with tyrium gear, 100 strength, and infinite prepared (mastercrafted) ingots to fill a forging pool in half an hour, why even pretend the system wasn't designed to exclude lore classes?
Lore has taken a back seat for a long time. Having lore as a primary focus is great for RP, not much else. Players have been asking for experience improvements since the new forging was put in place, best we've seen is a ~2s drop in action time for outfitting. All the crafting skills have a common core, we just need somebody with the keys to care enough to up the exp/action.
I understand the difficulty of certain master-craftsmen who have been around since the beginning and do not want to lose their status as the highest skilled crafters. Most have lore bonus pools that will double their experience for months. RPA and other exp bonuses can be bought/traded for if it is that important. We're talking about LORE skills not weapons, other guilds have had the HUGE ADVANTAGES of learning bonuses for combat skills since the beginning.
<<My moon mage is training about 10 skills now that I added forging... i can keep about 20-28 skills moving (without crafting)>>
<<But your learning faster as a lore prime who cares if it stops "moving">>
Moon mages are not lore primary, they live and die with the moons. The significance was the drastic change in progression when adding one of the new skills.
I play two lore prime characters. I feel no need or cause for any kind of "Bonus" to training any lore skills (including crafting) other than that already afforded to me by skillset placement.
I know, you dismiss my data and positions because you don't like them, but get a clue, check out the conflicts folder, you're the minority.
I know, you dismiss my data and positions because you don't like them, but get a clue, check out the conflicts folder, you're the minority.
>>We lost the musical lore trees with this last expansion--usage was never developed anyways so the splits didn't make sense. Teaching and scholarship melded into a single skill.
I wouldn't really consider any of those losses. Plus, you seem to ignore tactics being added and, you know, all those crafting lores.
>>If you have to be a ten year character with tyrium gear, 100 strength, and infinite prepared (mastercrafted) ingots to fill a forging pool in half an hour, why even pretend the system wasn't designed to exclude lore classes?
Beyond the initial first half of this bizarre statement, you do realize that just because a lore tert locks a crafting skill faster, they're not actually getting equal amounts of experience compared to a lore primary, right?
Made up numbers here, but a primary skill at 20/34 would compare to a tertiary skill at 34/34, pool-size-wise. Along with that, the lore primary will drain all that experience faster as well.
So, yeah, primaries generally have a harder time locking than tertiaries. But to consider that a penalty in relation to tertiaries is short sighted and doesn't recognize anything beyond the general concept of "well 100% is 100%". You're ignoring that the first 100% is valued at like 1,000 "bits" while the second 100% is valued at 500 "bits", or whatever the actual numbers are. You also seem to think that processing 100 "bits" per pulse, thus clearing out your big pool faster, isn't better than processing 50 "bits" per pulse, because your brain moves too fast.
This isn't to say that crafting could (or could not) use an overall exp boost. But you just don't seem to really understanding how things work while still critiquing them.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I wouldn't really consider any of those losses. Plus, you seem to ignore tactics being added and, you know, all those crafting lores.
>>If you have to be a ten year character with tyrium gear, 100 strength, and infinite prepared (mastercrafted) ingots to fill a forging pool in half an hour, why even pretend the system wasn't designed to exclude lore classes?
Beyond the initial first half of this bizarre statement, you do realize that just because a lore tert locks a crafting skill faster, they're not actually getting equal amounts of experience compared to a lore primary, right?
Made up numbers here, but a primary skill at 20/34 would compare to a tertiary skill at 34/34, pool-size-wise. Along with that, the lore primary will drain all that experience faster as well.
So, yeah, primaries generally have a harder time locking than tertiaries. But to consider that a penalty in relation to tertiaries is short sighted and doesn't recognize anything beyond the general concept of "well 100% is 100%". You're ignoring that the first 100% is valued at like 1,000 "bits" while the second 100% is valued at 500 "bits", or whatever the actual numbers are. You also seem to think that processing 100 "bits" per pulse, thus clearing out your big pool faster, isn't better than processing 50 "bits" per pulse, because your brain moves too fast.
This isn't to say that crafting could (or could not) use an overall exp boost. But you just don't seem to really understanding how things work while still critiquing them.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Last time, I understand pool sizes and pulses based on guild focus.
<<I wouldn't really consider any of those losses. Plus, you seem to ignore tactics being added and, you know, all those crafting lores.>>
Losses or not, it removed skills in the lore exp pool. Tactics is just our same old brawling in the lore category, I wasn't ignoring it, I was going through the litany of what we've lost--I still don't buy bobbing and weaving as noncombat skills unless evasion is as well. The crafting lores would be additions if we could train them effectively. I learned more than three times as fast playing a lyre than even carving with quick gear.
<<Beyond the initial first half of this bizarre statement>>
The overgeared are capable of the improbable. Sure, it would be nice to have everything, way to entreat those not completely in end game.
<<they're not actually getting equal amounts of experience compared to a lore primary, right?>>
Most of us fill pools as best we can, move one, refill, and try to keep the pools we choose draining. This is not currently possible in this example without giving up just about everything else. A lore prime could potentially advance faster than the older tertiaries if they lived in the forage, had equal bonus pools, always had an ingot, an anvil, and kept the forging pool above 3/34 (rate is a bit higher). You seem to be avoiding the complaints and complaining about ignorance of others without taking into account the experiences of others. I thought for sure my barbarian examples would clarify our experiences.
The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances. If the impulses are similar, the movement will be similar. Operative stats are already bonused towards the combative in every released craft (coincidence?). Primary skills require practice more often to keep learning going; thus, we try to fill a pool before leaving the training site in hopes of being able to return before the timer runs out. A skill that takes most of your time becomes your class and makes you an NPC.
<<I wouldn't really consider any of those losses. Plus, you seem to ignore tactics being added and, you know, all those crafting lores.>>
Losses or not, it removed skills in the lore exp pool. Tactics is just our same old brawling in the lore category, I wasn't ignoring it, I was going through the litany of what we've lost--I still don't buy bobbing and weaving as noncombat skills unless evasion is as well. The crafting lores would be additions if we could train them effectively. I learned more than three times as fast playing a lyre than even carving with quick gear.
<<Beyond the initial first half of this bizarre statement>>
The overgeared are capable of the improbable. Sure, it would be nice to have everything, way to entreat those not completely in end game.
<<they're not actually getting equal amounts of experience compared to a lore primary, right?>>
Most of us fill pools as best we can, move one, refill, and try to keep the pools we choose draining. This is not currently possible in this example without giving up just about everything else. A lore prime could potentially advance faster than the older tertiaries if they lived in the forage, had equal bonus pools, always had an ingot, an anvil, and kept the forging pool above 3/34 (rate is a bit higher). You seem to be avoiding the complaints and complaining about ignorance of others without taking into account the experiences of others. I thought for sure my barbarian examples would clarify our experiences.
The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances. If the impulses are similar, the movement will be similar. Operative stats are already bonused towards the combative in every released craft (coincidence?). Primary skills require practice more often to keep learning going; thus, we try to fill a pool before leaving the training site in hopes of being able to return before the timer runs out. A skill that takes most of your time becomes your class and makes you an NPC.
>>Last time, I understand pool sizes and pulses based on guild focus.
>>The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances. If the impulses are similar, the movement will be similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQg8JKo_3ZQ
>>The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances. If the impulses are similar, the movement will be similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQg8JKo_3ZQ
>>Losses or not, it removed skills in the lore exp pool.
All skillsets had gains/losses. Not sure what your point is beyond making statements.
>>Tactics is just our same old brawling in the lore category
Except for the lack of causing damage, the notable lore-based debilitation abilities, and the someday to come army system, yeah it's the same as old brawling.
>>I still don't buy bobbing and weaving as noncombat skills unless evasion is as well
What are you talking about
>>The overgeared are capable of the improbable.
Not really, no. You'll note that basic midsteel gear is pretty comparable to tyrium, and rare minable metal gear isn't anything to sneeze at. Crafting was done in a manner that ensures the combat will never expect someone to be decked out in all 99 hardness and/or physical gear.
>>The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances.
...yeah. So it looks like good old blue ball has ten minutes to do something else. What is blue ball doing then, not understanding how experience works on the DR forums?
>>Most of us fill pools as best we can, move one, refill, and try to keep the pools we choose draining. This is not currently possible in this example without giving up just about everything else.
Maybe it's you. I mean, Apu raises good points about wanting more exp per crafting action, but I don't think he's sitting around barely able to move anything else because he's focusing on crafts. Apu, can you correct me on this if I'm wrong and you're willing to weigh in?
But, that said, if each crafting action gave more experience, you'd still see terts locking faster, because they have smaller pools and process/drain experience slower.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
All skillsets had gains/losses. Not sure what your point is beyond making statements.
>>Tactics is just our same old brawling in the lore category
Except for the lack of causing damage, the notable lore-based debilitation abilities, and the someday to come army system, yeah it's the same as old brawling.
>>I still don't buy bobbing and weaving as noncombat skills unless evasion is as well
What are you talking about
>>The overgeared are capable of the improbable.
Not really, no. You'll note that basic midsteel gear is pretty comparable to tyrium, and rare minable metal gear isn't anything to sneeze at. Crafting was done in a manner that ensures the combat will never expect someone to be decked out in all 99 hardness and/or physical gear.
>>The blue ball rolls 150fps for ten minutes and the red ball rolls 75fps for twenty minutes, they both go equal distances.
...yeah. So it looks like good old blue ball has ten minutes to do something else. What is blue ball doing then, not understanding how experience works on the DR forums?
>>Most of us fill pools as best we can, move one, refill, and try to keep the pools we choose draining. This is not currently possible in this example without giving up just about everything else.
Maybe it's you. I mean, Apu raises good points about wanting more exp per crafting action, but I don't think he's sitting around barely able to move anything else because he's focusing on crafts. Apu, can you correct me on this if I'm wrong and you're willing to weigh in?
But, that said, if each crafting action gave more experience, you'd still see terts locking faster, because they have smaller pools and process/drain experience slower.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Cmon folks. Cool it down a bit. I'll see if time allows for some tweaks this weekend.
The problem right now is EXP is non-linear from 1-2000 ranks. I need to create a new formula to replace the piecewise functions I used years ago when I first implemented this whole thing. Then test it. Woe to me - proper testing takes so much time!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The problem right now is EXP is non-linear from 1-2000 ranks. I need to create a new formula to replace the piecewise functions I used years ago when I first implemented this whole thing. Then test it. Woe to me - proper testing takes so much time!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>The problem right now is EXP is non-linear from 1-2000 ranks. I need to create a new formula to replace the piecewise functions I used years ago when I first implemented this whole thing. Then test it. Woe to me - proper testing takes so much time!
Can't be easy to properly balance the EXP I'm sure, but anything you could do would definitely be appreciated by many people I'm sure
Sure would be nice though if someone else could be convinced to look into upping the experience on appraisal and trading - both are WAY worse than any crafting skill, but apparently have no GM specifically assigned to develop them like crafting skills do
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Can't be easy to properly balance the EXP I'm sure, but anything you could do would definitely be appreciated by many people I'm sure
Sure would be nice though if someone else could be convinced to look into upping the experience on appraisal and trading - both are WAY worse than any crafting skill, but apparently have no GM specifically assigned to develop them like crafting skills do
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>>>The problem right now is EXP is non-linear from 1-2000 ranks. I need to create a new formula to replace the piecewise functions I used years ago when I first implemented this whole thing. Then test it. Woe to me - proper testing takes so much time!
As a datapoint to perhaps help show the need for further testing and changes to increase the exp at very high ranks:
Forging = 1311 ranks
Tools = steel**
Item difficulty = Tier 11 difficulty (Very Difficult) and 41 workability
Time for Forging to go from 0/34 to 33/34 = 1 hour, 16 minutes
# Items forged to reach nearly mindlocked = 16
**I actually meant to use Glaes tools but realized halfway thru the test that I sold my last glaes hammer/shovel and hadn't made new ones yet. Still this provides a good data point since skills should be trainable at a reasonable rate without having to spend over 2k plat on tools.
At the current rate, it's pretty much a complete waste of time to train crafting skills at very high ranks, which is why I've basically ignored forging since 3.0 came out and only attempted to train Engineering, Outfitting and Mech Lore except for this test. Hopefully you can get a chance to look into the non-linear exp gain
Or better yet, get someone to look into Trading - if Trading were mindlock-able in 76 minutes that would be a HUGE improvement :(
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
As a datapoint to perhaps help show the need for further testing and changes to increase the exp at very high ranks:
Forging = 1311 ranks
Tools = steel**
Item difficulty = Tier 11 difficulty (Very Difficult) and 41 workability
Time for Forging to go from 0/34 to 33/34 = 1 hour, 16 minutes
# Items forged to reach nearly mindlocked = 16
**I actually meant to use Glaes tools but realized halfway thru the test that I sold my last glaes hammer/shovel and hadn't made new ones yet. Still this provides a good data point since skills should be trainable at a reasonable rate without having to spend over 2k plat on tools.
At the current rate, it's pretty much a complete waste of time to train crafting skills at very high ranks, which is why I've basically ignored forging since 3.0 came out and only attempted to train Engineering, Outfitting and Mech Lore except for this test. Hopefully you can get a chance to look into the non-linear exp gain
Or better yet, get someone to look into Trading - if Trading were mindlock-able in 76 minutes that would be a HUGE improvement :(
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>Forging = 1311 ranks
>>Tools = steel**
>>Item difficulty = Tier 11 difficulty (Very Difficult) and 41 workability
Hey Apu are you still getting tier 11 as hard WO's at those ranks?
Also what material were you using for the test items?
>>I'm just curious as to what your estimated time to do the same thing with glaes tools would have been. Shaving 10 minutes? More/less?
Just a guess but I bet it would be less than 10 minutes, even for that length of time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Tools = steel**
>>Item difficulty = Tier 11 difficulty (Very Difficult) and 41 workability
Hey Apu are you still getting tier 11 as hard WO's at those ranks?
Also what material were you using for the test items?
>>I'm just curious as to what your estimated time to do the same thing with glaes tools would have been. Shaving 10 minutes? More/less?
Just a guess but I bet it would be less than 10 minutes, even for that length of time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Hey Apu are you still getting tier 11 as hard WO's at those ranks?
>>Also what material were you using for the test items?
Yeah still getting Tier 11 items for hard work orders. The material was a mix of medium (40%) and high C (60%) steel, which I happened to have on hand plus it seems about perfect for the test since I get masterful when I don't need to use a bellows and barely get outstanding if I do need to use a bellows
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>Also what material were you using for the test items?
Yeah still getting Tier 11 items for hard work orders. The material was a mix of medium (40%) and high C (60%) steel, which I happened to have on hand plus it seems about perfect for the test since I get masterful when I don't need to use a bellows and barely get outstanding if I do need to use a bellows
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>> plus it seems about perfect for the test since I get masterful when I don't need to use a bellows and barely get outstanding if I do need to use a bellows
I'm not convinced that the exp calcs are working the way Kodius has described them (possibly buggy?) from this post:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/General%20Discussions%20-%20Lore/view/3571
>>Crafting experience is a bell-curve centered around a 75% skill score. Past 100% it tapers off, and below 50% it tapers off. A 75% skill score can just about mastercraft an item provided you have all the bonuses working in your favor (techniques, career, good tools/ingredients).
I can get to masterful with workabilities all the way down to 50, and outstanding at 40, but learn best with workability of 60 material. That seems to contradict the above statement.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
I'm not convinced that the exp calcs are working the way Kodius has described them (possibly buggy?) from this post:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/General%20Discussions%20-%20Lore/view/3571
>>Crafting experience is a bell-curve centered around a 75% skill score. Past 100% it tapers off, and below 50% it tapers off. A 75% skill score can just about mastercraft an item provided you have all the bonuses working in your favor (techniques, career, good tools/ingredients).
I can get to masterful with workabilities all the way down to 50, and outstanding at 40, but learn best with workability of 60 material. That seems to contradict the above statement.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
I'm almost certain the exp is bugged, at least for me in Blacksmithing. My initial post is here http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/Bugs%20-%20Lore/view/1470, but I've been expanding on that the last 2 days. (I should get around to posting more results).
>Crafting experience is a bell-curve centered around a 75% skill score. (snipped) A 75% skill score can just about mastercraft an item provided you have all the bonuses working in your favor (techniques, career, good tools/ingredients)
I BARELY see a bell curve. In my primary crafting tier, Difficult Items, I can ALMOST mastercraft at 46 workability (test result is a 98 quality Outstanding). I call it 47 workability. It's increasing exp from there to 75 workability. Then I get slightly less exp for 80 workability. (about 2% less exp doing 80 compared to 75)
By quoted GM logic, I should learn best with Tier 10 46-47 workability. I LEARN best with 75 workability. 80 workability I don't get as much (about 98%), 70 workability I don't get as much (99%). 50 workability I REALLY don't get as much (about 80% of 75 workability, despite still mastercrafting), and 35 I REALLY, REALLY lose a lot (because it's a trashed item, but still), about 40% of 75 workability.
It's noticeable, and causes a practical impact to training. If you solely consider time to lock, I can lock in 5 items compared to 7-8 items. (although there's less total exp relative to 7-8 items, those 5 items have something like a 15% bonus exp, so they're almost as good as 6 items).
Furthermore, I do not learn as much from a Tier 11 lead mastercrafted item as I do from a Tier 10 lead mastercrafted item, despite barely mastercrafting the Tier 11 item (I estimate my MC limit in Tier 11 is about 76 workability "with all bonuses working in your favor"). If that's not a bug, I don't know what is.
While my numbers are changing a little over the 3 ranks (going on fourth) I've been recording, this basic overview holds true that the easiest material I can get my hands on teaches me better than material that should be perfectly matched to my skill.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>Crafting experience is a bell-curve centered around a 75% skill score. (snipped) A 75% skill score can just about mastercraft an item provided you have all the bonuses working in your favor (techniques, career, good tools/ingredients)
I BARELY see a bell curve. In my primary crafting tier, Difficult Items, I can ALMOST mastercraft at 46 workability (test result is a 98 quality Outstanding). I call it 47 workability. It's increasing exp from there to 75 workability. Then I get slightly less exp for 80 workability. (about 2% less exp doing 80 compared to 75)
By quoted GM logic, I should learn best with Tier 10 46-47 workability. I LEARN best with 75 workability. 80 workability I don't get as much (about 98%), 70 workability I don't get as much (99%). 50 workability I REALLY don't get as much (about 80% of 75 workability, despite still mastercrafting), and 35 I REALLY, REALLY lose a lot (because it's a trashed item, but still), about 40% of 75 workability.
It's noticeable, and causes a practical impact to training. If you solely consider time to lock, I can lock in 5 items compared to 7-8 items. (although there's less total exp relative to 7-8 items, those 5 items have something like a 15% bonus exp, so they're almost as good as 6 items).
Furthermore, I do not learn as much from a Tier 11 lead mastercrafted item as I do from a Tier 10 lead mastercrafted item, despite barely mastercrafting the Tier 11 item (I estimate my MC limit in Tier 11 is about 76 workability "with all bonuses working in your favor"). If that's not a bug, I don't know what is.
While my numbers are changing a little over the 3 ranks (going on fourth) I've been recording, this basic overview holds true that the easiest material I can get my hands on teaches me better than material that should be perfectly matched to my skill.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
