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Probably better here than in teaching (I also put the suggestion in there), but after a certain number of ranks maybe you can learn a new language?
200 ranks = 1 new language
400 ranks = 2 new languages
And so forth.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
I don't necessarily believe it should start at 25 ranks of scholarship, but starting at 200 is a little stiff, as that's what is required to be a 66th or so Moon Mage, or a 75th or so Empath. I think it would be something people could get enjoyment out of early on, especially since speaking a language is not a huge mechanical benefit. Also, speaking multiple languages is not that difficult, its just something we don't generally practice much in the US. I have friends who spoke 3 languages or more by the age of 5 (not that real life is entirely comparable to Elanthia).
Maybe if you coupled the scholarship requirement with teaching by someone who speaks the language and/or textbooks, you can make it a bit more difficult to pick up. It'd definitely be something nice to actually use teaching for.
As an aside, I have a suspicion that most non-elves are going to learn Ilithic as their first language.
Maybe if you coupled the scholarship requirement with teaching by someone who speaks the language and/or textbooks, you can make it a bit more difficult to pick up. It'd definitely be something nice to actually use teaching for.
As an aside, I have a suspicion that most non-elves are going to learn Ilithic as their first language.
>>Also, speaking multiple languages is not that difficult, its just something we don't generally practice much in the US.
Speaking multiple languages is one thing (I know 2 fluently and 1 passably). Learning languages is completely different.
The rarity of a speaker's population, paradoxically, is what makes a language valuable. (Not precisely, but eh.) 200 might be a little high, but 100 is definitely not too high.
I'd suggest 150, minimum. All things considered, anyone who's not a newbie can learn scholarship very fast nowadays. And I don't see a reason to make an affordance for newbies, here.
>>As an aside, I have a suspicion that most non-elves are going to learn Ilithic as their first language.
Of course. Never again am I going to listen to someone boast to the group I'm in, "They didn't realize I, too, was an Elf and could understand Elven and knew they were talking about me."
Speaking multiple languages is one thing (I know 2 fluently and 1 passably). Learning languages is completely different.
The rarity of a speaker's population, paradoxically, is what makes a language valuable. (Not precisely, but eh.) 200 might be a little high, but 100 is definitely not too high.
I'd suggest 150, minimum. All things considered, anyone who's not a newbie can learn scholarship very fast nowadays. And I don't see a reason to make an affordance for newbies, here.
>>As an aside, I have a suspicion that most non-elves are going to learn Ilithic as their first language.
Of course. Never again am I going to listen to someone boast to the group I'm in, "They didn't realize I, too, was an Elf and could understand Elven and knew they were talking about me."
i think it has to have a high barricade so as not to step on the toes of bards, who have to use a song slot <spell slot> for aura of tongues in order to eavesdrop on others who are speaking other languages. So I vote for starting at 200 scholarship and every 100 ranks thereafter you can learn another language.
And for my main character, who is s'kra, i'd probably want to either pick up prydaen <the only other tailed species>, or toggish, given the history between the togs and the s'kra, i'd wanna know what they were sayin...
Schvartz
<<If nothing else, maybe some Magic Using guilds will now feel the joys of "You cannot steal here.", at least for a while.--Solomon>>
And for my main character, who is s'kra, i'd probably want to either pick up prydaen <the only other tailed species>, or toggish, given the history between the togs and the s'kra, i'd wanna know what they were sayin...
Schvartz
<<If nothing else, maybe some Magic Using guilds will now feel the joys of "You cannot steal here.", at least for a while.--Solomon>>
>Yeah, I am thinking after these changes the bards are not going to be complaining much.
Haha, good point. Hit 'em while they're distracted! Languages for all!
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
Haha, good point. Hit 'em while they're distracted! Languages for all!
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
Or you could make it a twin system.
2 languages at (primary and common) 10 intel
3 language slots availible at 20 intel and 100 scholarship.
4 language slots availible at 30 intel and 200 scholarship.
With the bard/trader bonus being the only two guilds able to teach/enhance any other guilds ability to speak it. (practice taking it only portionally to the level.
2 languages at (primary and common) 10 intel
3 language slots availible at 20 intel and 100 scholarship.
4 language slots availible at 30 intel and 200 scholarship.
With the bard/trader bonus being the only two guilds able to teach/enhance any other guilds ability to speak it. (practice taking it only portionally to the level.
30 intelligence and 150 scholarship is the absolute lowest it should be. Having it work a bit like teaching from then on would make sense: 40 intelligence and 300 scholarship lets you pick up a second one, 50 intelligence and 600 lets you pick up a third, etc.
Rev. Reene
The silence weaves a tapestry of once enchanted themes,
The shadows listen carefully and question what it means;
For stories have lives of their own,
But what good's a story whose end is unknown?
Rev. Reene
The silence weaves a tapestry of once enchanted themes,
The shadows listen carefully and question what it means;
For stories have lives of their own,
But what good's a story whose end is unknown?
There are, what, 10 languages that any given character doesn't know? Aura lets you understand all of those.
Assuming it's double the scholarship to learn the next language,
Base 200: 4 languages learnable, ever.
Base 150: 4 languages
Base 100: 5 languages
Base 50: 6 languages
Base 25: 7 languages
You're never going to actually compete.
Assuming it's double the scholarship to learn the next language,
Base 200: 4 languages learnable, ever.
Base 150: 4 languages
Base 100: 5 languages
Base 50: 6 languages
Base 25: 7 languages
You're never going to actually compete.
I suspect that this is going to be unpopular, but I would really like to see learning new languages require an investment in TDP's.
This would prevent every training-oriented character from learning every language as a matter of course, but would (hopefully) scale in such a way as to allow relatively low-level characters who are less numbers-oriented to speak several languages.
I think that the cost of learning multiple successive languages could still increase, say 100 TDP's for the first one, 200 for the second, 300 for the third, and so on. An inverse function of scholarship might reduce the cost by as much as half, so say with 100 ranks of Scholarship it would only cost 50 TDP's for the first language, 200 Scholarship for 100 TDP's on the second and so on. Presumably the GM's could put an appropriate amount of thought into this and come up with a system that allows both great flexibility and appropriately rewards those players that choose to sacrifice ability score increases for new languages.
Of course I'm under no illusion that when learning other languages is released it isn't going to immediately turn into an everyone-speaks-everything-palooza, but I can hope that doing so will require a more substantial investment than training teaching and/or scholarship.
_
Moon Magic 101:
"A lethal spell is defined as a spell which, by itself, can cause the death of anyone other than the caster." --GM Armifer
This would prevent every training-oriented character from learning every language as a matter of course, but would (hopefully) scale in such a way as to allow relatively low-level characters who are less numbers-oriented to speak several languages.
I think that the cost of learning multiple successive languages could still increase, say 100 TDP's for the first one, 200 for the second, 300 for the third, and so on. An inverse function of scholarship might reduce the cost by as much as half, so say with 100 ranks of Scholarship it would only cost 50 TDP's for the first language, 200 Scholarship for 100 TDP's on the second and so on. Presumably the GM's could put an appropriate amount of thought into this and come up with a system that allows both great flexibility and appropriately rewards those players that choose to sacrifice ability score increases for new languages.
Of course I'm under no illusion that when learning other languages is released it isn't going to immediately turn into an everyone-speaks-everything-palooza, but I can hope that doing so will require a more substantial investment than training teaching and/or scholarship.
_
Moon Magic 101:
"A lethal spell is defined as a spell which, by itself, can cause the death of anyone other than the caster." --GM Armifer
> I think it would differentiate the scholars more from the fighters in a way that scholarship couldn't, since TDPs are a generally more limited resource than ranks.
The flipside is that making it a function of scholarship gives a skill with very little practical application a little bit more purpose and a reason to train.
- GM Dartenian
"So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried, he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled that thing
That couldn't be done and he did it."
- Edgar Guest
The flipside is that making it a function of scholarship gives a skill with very little practical application a little bit more purpose and a reason to train.
- GM Dartenian
"So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried, he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled that thing
That couldn't be done and he did it."
- Edgar Guest
Not a huge fan of the tdp cost, but I could see that going in some kind of increasing fashion as well.
1st extra language - 10tdps
2nd extra language - 200tdps
etc.
But really, if they cost tdps... I would probably just decide it's not worth it. It also kind of defeats the point of a skill based system (unless there would also be a scholarship req.)
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
1st extra language - 10tdps
2nd extra language - 200tdps
etc.
But really, if they cost tdps... I would probably just decide it's not worth it. It also kind of defeats the point of a skill based system (unless there would also be a scholarship req.)
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
The TDP cost doesn't have to be huge. Just enough to be a discouragement from picking up a few extra languages "just because."
Scholarship should still be a huge factor as well, and possibly intelligence.
Rev. Reene
The silence weaves a tapestry of once enchanted themes,
The shadows listen carefully and question what it means;
For stories have lives of their own,
But what good's a story whose end is unknown?
Scholarship should still be a huge factor as well, and possibly intelligence.
Rev. Reene
The silence weaves a tapestry of once enchanted themes,
The shadows listen carefully and question what it means;
For stories have lives of their own,
But what good's a story whose end is unknown?
I think some additional languaged need to be added to DR, and then using scholarship skill would make tons of sense. Say if you had goblin, orc, adan'f and a handful of other evil languages.
Now, why have these languages you might say? Events is the first thing that comes to mind. Finding a note that reads as a bunch of scribbles to you might mean you need to seek out someone more learned. Currently no system for this exists and so scholarship is kind of limited.
The second reason is for communicating with other players. If you and your friends all learned "ogre" it would be quite a hoot. A couple of dwarves sitting in the back clicking back and forth in the language of the orcs, or some drunk elves chattering away in the language of the kelpies :shrug: It would add some atmosphere to things I guess.
A third reason is with the up coming "Creature Barter System (trading with creatures)" I could see such a system inter-woven with the TASKS system. You can get quests from goblins, orcs, whatever.. to go and do things. Maybe its stealing from a city to supply the orc army. Maybe you are spying on Shard for the Plague Wraiths. So you'd need to pick up and bring along someone knowledeable in those languages to get access to certain parts of that system.
The TASK system kind of hinted at a lot more to come, and working in various aspects of the lore system to facilitate better roleplay and more interesting quests seems like it has some great potential.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Now, why have these languages you might say? Events is the first thing that comes to mind. Finding a note that reads as a bunch of scribbles to you might mean you need to seek out someone more learned. Currently no system for this exists and so scholarship is kind of limited.
The second reason is for communicating with other players. If you and your friends all learned "ogre" it would be quite a hoot. A couple of dwarves sitting in the back clicking back and forth in the language of the orcs, or some drunk elves chattering away in the language of the kelpies :shrug: It would add some atmosphere to things I guess.
A third reason is with the up coming "Creature Barter System (trading with creatures)" I could see such a system inter-woven with the TASKS system. You can get quests from goblins, orcs, whatever.. to go and do things. Maybe its stealing from a city to supply the orc army. Maybe you are spying on Shard for the Plague Wraiths. So you'd need to pick up and bring along someone knowledeable in those languages to get access to certain parts of that system.
The TASK system kind of hinted at a lot more to come, and working in various aspects of the lore system to facilitate better roleplay and more interesting quests seems like it has some great potential.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
>Base 200: 4 languages learnable, ever.
>Base 150: 4 languages
>Base 100: 5 languages
>Base 50: 6 languages
>Base 25: 7 languages
I'm certain your numbers are off, why would you know more languages from less base?
and there are 11 languages(ten races + common)
and fourteen if you include GSL, TSL, and BSL
** Default base, fresh out of the CG, You had to learn common before being thrown out of the hive/burrow/nest/house, and you learned your own language first.
* Optional, reaching the requsits does not shove the languages into your head. Only traders and bards can teach you a non guild language.
** also becomes +1 langauge if your guild has a guild specific language.(ie TSL[thief sign language] or BSL [barbarian sign language])
>Base 150: 4 languages
>Base 100: 5 languages
>Base 50: 6 languages
>Base 25: 7 languages
I'm certain your numbers are off, why would you know more languages from less base?
and there are 11 languages(ten races + common)
and fourteen if you include GSL, TSL, and BSL
| Intel | Scholarship | Languages |
| CG | 0 | 2 |
| 20 | 150 | 3* |
| 30 | 300 | 4* |
| 40 | 450 | 5* |
| 50 | 600 | 6* |
| 60 | 750 | 7* |
| 70 | 900 | 8* |
| 80 | 1000 | 9* |
| ++ | ++ | ++ |
** Default base, fresh out of the CG, You had to learn common before being thrown out of the hive/burrow/nest/house, and you learned your own language first.
* Optional, reaching the requsits does not shove the languages into your head. Only traders and bards can teach you a non guild language.
** also becomes +1 langauge if your guild has a guild specific language.(ie TSL[thief sign language] or BSL [barbarian sign language])
>I'm certain your numbers are off, why would you know more languages from less base?
You are using a different system. His example was if you got a language at that many ranks and doubled it each time... So if you get one at 25, then 50, then 100, then 200... etc. You will have 7. If you start at 50 and double it you will have 6. I'm not actually going to check his numbers, though.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
You are using a different system. His example was if you got a language at that many ranks and doubled it each time... So if you get one at 25, then 50, then 100, then 200... etc. You will have 7. If you start at 50 and double it you will have 6. I'm not actually going to check his numbers, though.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
>and there are 11 languages(ten races + common)
Gnomes and Kaldar both speak Gorbesh, so subtract one.
Personally I think the infrequency of use that racial languages get along with the feeling of exclusiveness is exactly what makes them special. If everyone could understand Ilithic, I'd probably use it even less than I do now.
~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact
Ruea says, "I swear, I'm forsaking Damaris and building an altar to you."
Gnomes and Kaldar both speak Gorbesh, so subtract one.
Personally I think the infrequency of use that racial languages get along with the feeling of exclusiveness is exactly what makes them special. If everyone could understand Ilithic, I'd probably use it even less than I do now.
~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact
Ruea says, "I swear, I'm forsaking Damaris and building an altar to you."
Are there any plans to add additional languages, or expand existing ones? I was thinking something along the lines of Archaic or High versions of existing languages. Perhaps colloquial or slang versions as well. The Archaic forms would take a great deal of scholarship to learn, and would only be learnable from obscure/lost/sacred/etc texts, while the colloquial version of the language could perhaps have a charisma and intelligence requirement, or lack thereof, to keep up with the trends and changes in the language.
>>there are 11 languages(ten races + common)/Gnomes and Kaldar both speak Gorbesh, so subtract one.
There are 11 races with a total of 10 racial languages, plus common = 11 languages spoken by player characters.
Regardless of the exact number, there are a bunch.
_
Moon Magic 101:
"A lethal spell is defined as a spell which, by itself, can cause the death of anyone other than the caster." --GM Armifer
There are 11 races with a total of 10 racial languages, plus common = 11 languages spoken by player characters.
Regardless of the exact number, there are a bunch.
_
Moon Magic 101:
"A lethal spell is defined as a spell which, by itself, can cause the death of anyone other than the caster." --GM Armifer
Ever tried to get that twelfth pouch? There is a very specific reason we only have 11 languages...
That said, bring on the language learning.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
That said, bring on the language learning.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
I seem to recall hearing or reading somewhere that it was actually easier to learn new languages the more languages you knew. I don't know if that makes sense from a game balance perspective, but just thought I'd throw that out there.
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
~Raecear in plat, player of
Me: whose fault is this!
GM Kheldun: hmm
GM Kheldun : blame Armifer
Me: does he like that?
GM Kheldun: Being blamed? Yeah I think so.
I still don't like the idea of a forced TDP cost to learn languages. Maybe something similar to the new magic forgetting system. If you want to learn a new language for free you need a certain number of ranks in scholarship. If you want to learn it a bit earlier you need less ranks in scholarship and more TDPs.
- Player of Foresee
"Moon Mages study the skies and scribe occulted sigils to build up magical power, Rangers... I don't know, dance naked around trees or whatever it is they do when they think nobody's watching." - DR-Armifer
- Player of Foresee
"Moon Mages study the skies and scribe occulted sigils to build up magical power, Rangers... I don't know, dance naked around trees or whatever it is they do when they think nobody's watching." - DR-Armifer
I'm all for the idea of additional languages every 175 scholarship ranks at the cost of a few tdp's relative to the skill requirement, and a cost of 300 tdp's for any time you cross your language threshold which is based off of your scholarship.
Again, anytime you exceed your language threshold(which is based on your scholarship ranks), you must pay 300 TDP's.
__
We are still discussing options and we are still trying to find the best plan we can that will not bring about the end of the world as we all know it. Well, that isn't necessarily accurate. The world as you know it will end.
| Scholarship Minimum | TDP Cost | Language Threshold |
| 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 175 | 50 | 3 |
| 350 | 50 | 4 |
| 525 | 100 | 5 |
| 700 | 100 | 6 |
| 875 | 150 | 7 |
| 1050 | 150 | 8 |
| 1225 | 200 | 9 |
| 1400 | 200 | 10 |
| 1575 | 250 | 11 |
Again, anytime you exceed your language threshold(which is based on your scholarship ranks), you must pay 300 TDP's.
__
We are still discussing options and we are still trying to find the best plan we can that will not bring about the end of the world as we all know it. Well, that isn't necessarily accurate. The world as you know it will end.
<<Personally I think the infrequency of use that racial languages get along with the feeling of exclusiveness is exactly what makes them special. If everyone could understand Ilithic, I'd probably use it even less than I do now.>>
I tend to agree actually. However, they were looking for scholarship suggestions and this was the only thing I could think of that actually had a practical use.
I guess that is why I put the requirement very high. For me (to help protect some exclusivity), the following range would be more acceptable:
1 additional language: 100 ranks
2 = 200 ranks
3 = 400 ranks
And so forth. Anyway, just my thoughts. Not a big deal to me one way or the other frankly.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
I tend to agree actually. However, they were looking for scholarship suggestions and this was the only thing I could think of that actually had a practical use.
I guess that is why I put the requirement very high. For me (to help protect some exclusivity), the following range would be more acceptable:
1 additional language: 100 ranks
2 = 200 ranks
3 = 400 ranks
And so forth. Anyway, just my thoughts. Not a big deal to me one way or the other frankly.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
I don't see a need for TDP's- but Languages should have to be taught and learned- which should take time between two individuals. Make it time doing exclusively that function, with the teacher learning teaching and scholarship, and the student learning the language.
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
Languages is a GREAT ideal, especially if the gms would make other languages available then there is is infinite rp opportunity for the people who cant fight so well in invasions.
Maybe the goblin leader would try to communicate but only someone who wasted a pick on goblin could understand, then that person becomes important for the moment
Don't fear the dark, Fear what hides in it.
Maybe the goblin leader would try to communicate but only someone who wasted a pick on goblin could understand, then that person becomes important for the moment
Don't fear the dark, Fear what hides in it.
<<Maybe the goblin leader would try to communicate but only someone who wasted a pick on goblin could understand, then that person becomes important for the moment>>
That's a darn good idea IMO.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
That's a darn good idea IMO.
Madigan
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Arthur Ashe
