Flight quality has a small impact on the ingredient composite score. It is possible that is pushing you down a percent or two.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

So everything was mastercrafted for making these and they came out that poorly.


ana flights
You find yourself unable to determine the difficulty of this item.
You analyze every minute detail of the arrow flights and smile knowingly to yourself.
These appear to be a type of arrow flights that are masterfully-crafted.
You find yourself unable to determine the difficulty of this item.
The flights are masterfully-crafted.
It was made by someone with much less skill than your own.
You find it impossible to identify who crafted this item.

Not sure if anyone has tested further but, I assume the shafts are not wood type specific.

I made shafts from 4 types of woods and they all combined. And to add to that, crafted arrows from 4 types of wood and the same mastercrafted arrowheads.

The woods all appraised at different values but the arrows appraised equal in all instances.

>>Ya, thats why I think its a problem with the quality of the shafts. Because I'm making other items at the same difficulty without issue. Till I get to below 40 workability. I would understand if it was just oh I put flights on and it got knocked down.


Some additional occurances of this myself that might be useful...

Battle Bow (Composite) is 10 - Difficult. Uses Advanced Heavy Bowcraft Tech.
Jagged-horn Arrows are 10 - Difficult. Uses Exotic Fletching Tech.

On base ranks, I cant master craft battle bows on low workability woods. I also cant master jagged horn arrows. Both items come out Outstanding. Thats fine, Im working on those ranks!

Got a bard to cast a capped WOTM on me and tried a battle bow with 99 quality ebony (15 workability), and it came out master crafted.

Tried jagged-horn arrows, came out Outstanding again. Also as Gamalon observed they are outstanding right from the get go. Analyze after the first step shows outstanding so it isnt a particular step/flights/glue/whatever knocking it down.

Next had a high end moonmage fill his prediction pool and buffed my engineering (WOTM was still up at this point) and made another attempt on jagged-horn. Once again was outstanding right from the get go.

Not sure if the predict boost and WOTM boost will stack or not. Either way all other things being equal, same tools, same difficulty, same boost (or better if they do stack), both product techs known, both materials (ebony lumber and shafts) analyzed as mastercrafted I guess the only variation would be the workability factoring in? The battle bow was made with workability 15 ebony. Since the shafts are analyzing as master crafted, I guess that means that shafts by default are less than workability 15?

Cheers,
Arv





The arrow lands a massive (12/23) strike that chills the left knee for a moment with a frosty blow, lightly stunning him.

>>He was a decent Ranger until he took an arrow to the knee.

>> Next had a high end moonmage fill his prediction pool and buffed my engineering (WOTM was still up at this point) and made another attempt on jagged-horn. Once again was outstanding right from the get go.

They don't stack, I pulled this from one of Raesh's post:

Soft cap decreased from 30% to 20% (This is a global buff change).
Hard cap of 150 ranks removed (New 'hard cap' of 350 ranks. 1750 * 0.2 = 350)
Buffs now only respect the most powerful one on the target. If you give someone +10% perception from clear vision and then predict on them for +5% perception the spell will be dominant.
Prediction is not subject to other spell-like limitations (Nor should other non-magic sources of buffs in general), such as the rank reduction when used on other players and SoI.

There is actually a couple of issues here. I don't know your profession so muse will either cap out at 10% or 7.5% depending on SOI. Prediction can hit 20% but unsure if its affected by the crafting limit.


As for the substance... Have you actually confirmed that the shafts were made from 90+ quality wood? I know the shaft may say master-craft, but the quality might have an effect? What about the arrowheads? Were they all perfect skins? This could have an effect even if they are crafting as master-craft.

And finally, on the last log you posted, I see at least 3 places where the quality can drop. This is likely the reason that you will need more skin compared to the bow. There is two applications of glue which are uncraftable with quality as "finely crafted", plus the application of the flights.

So- chance for quality drop:
glue - arrowheads
assemble - flights
glue - flight

That could be causing extra skill needed.

>> Please read the other 3 posts I've made regarding workability and using same difficulty or HARDER and still being able to turn out better products.

>> The issue is directly related to the shafts. Unlike anything else in crafting that is physical altered/scraped/pounded/carved etc. Shafts do no have a workability we can see. Yes, I'm aware there is padding for tailoring, shield handles etc. Our point is the shafts when doing "shape shaft with shaper" is dropping the quality. There is an unseen factor that is causing this.

I did read them. They were confusing and hard to follow. I did notice that you didn't mention the glue could be dropping your crafting level. Unless glue is also used twice in the bows you mentioned.

However, you posted part of your crafting process on the ice-adders which was easy enough to follow.

I did not see a drop in quality when you affixed the arrowheads to the shafts. That turns them into ARROWS. You can then analyze the arrow to determine current quality yes? If the shafts were an issue there would have been a quality drop once the arrows were formed. You then pointed out a quality drop when you used the glue and also a drop when you used the shaper.

So, this tells me 1) Glue can affect quality, and 2) Flights can affect quality (per kodius). Therefore, there are 3 places AFTER shafts which can cause a drop in overall quality. This likely causes additional skill to be needed vs an equivalent bow of similar template and work-ability.


I'm entirely unconvinced that shaft workability plays any part in crafting arrows since shafts have no impact on the end design. It's likely either built into the arrowhead and transferred to the arrow or a neutral number that we really don't need to know. Sort of like smelting ore.

>> Then you simply don't know how making arrows works. It is a shaft till it shaped. Then it comes an arrow for you to affix an arrowhead too.

I am trying to provide alternative reasons besides "it's broke." Don't be condescending to me. Here is a log of how I make my arrows. Hopefully its up to your standards. Also, are we using different steps? I'm trying to match your last log to mine and they aren't meshing.

Here's what I'm saying: There is a chance for quality drop at both applications of glue and at the application of flights. This is AFTER the shaft has been turned into an arrow. So its therefore implausible to place all blame on "shaft" work-ability, when it can easily be work-ability of the arrow heads, or the fact that there is no workability, and arrows are just simply harder.

According to your post about ice adder arrows, my steps do not match up to yours.

Here is my steps:
shape my claw into arrowhead
shape my lumber into shaft
shape my shafts with my shaper * turns into arrows here *
assemble my arrows with my arrowheads
apply my glue to my arrows
carve/shape/ my arrows
assemble my arrows with my flights
apply my glue to my arrows
carve / shape until done.



Also, why do you think that an arrow of exotic category should have the same difficulty of a bow in a similar category?

---

You get a steel jagged wood shaper with a tempered finish from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my shafts

You pick up the shafts lying at your feet.
> [shaping]: shape my shafts with my shaper

You place the excess parts at your feet.
Using abrupt motions you shape a series of grooves into your arrow shafts.

The arrows are ready for an application of glue to affix the arrowheads.
Roundtime: 11 sec.

* They are now turned into arrows. **

You need another soot-streaked arrowheads to continue crafting some unfinished soot-stained arrows. You believe you can assemble the two ingredients together once you acquire them.

[Ingredients can be added by using ASSEMBLE Ingredient1 WITH Ingredient2]
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your shaper in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my soot-streaked arrowheads

You get some soot-streaked arrowheads from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: assemble my arrows with my arrowheads

You place your arrowheads with your soot-stained arrows and carefully mark where it will attach when you continue crafting.
> [shaping]: get my glue

You get some wood glue from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: apply my glue to my arrows

You apply some glue to your arrows and affix each arrowhead in place.

* Here is where there is possibility of the first quality drop from glue. Also note it triggered a knife carving.*

A handful of rough edges require carving with a knife to remove.
Roundtime: 22 sec.
R>
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your glue in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my carving knife

You get a steel carving knife with a tempered blade from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: carve my arrows with my knife

Using slow strokes you scrape away some rough edges on the arrows using a steel carving knife with a tempered blade.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your knife in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my shaper

You get a steel jagged wood shaper with a tempered finish from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: shape my arrows with my shaper

You flip some unfinished soot-stained arrows over and begin to shape it with your shaper.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your shaper in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my shaper

You get a steel jagged wood shaper with a tempered finish from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: shape my arrows with my shaper

You lap the arrow shafts with your shaper and add gentle ribs to the wood surface.

A handful of rough edges require carving with a knife to remove.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R>
R>
> [shaping]: stow

You put your shaper in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my carving knife

You get a steel carving knife with a tempered blade from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: carve my arrows with my knife

You whittle away the rough edges on your arrows using a steel carving knife with a tempered blade.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your knife in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my shaper

You get a steel jagged wood shaper with a tempered finish from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: shape my arrows with my shaper

Using abrupt motions you shape a series of grooves into your arrow shafts.

The arrows are ready for an application of glue to attach the flights.
Roundtime: 15 sec.

You need another arrow flights to continue crafting some unfinished soot-stained arrows. You believe you can assemble the two ingredients together once you acquire them.

[Ingredients can be added by using ASSEMBLE Ingredient1 WITH Ingredient2]
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your shaper in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my flights

You get some straight arrow flights from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: assemble my arrows with my flights

You place your flights with your soot-stained arrows and carefully mark where it will attach when you continue crafting.

* Second point where quality can drop. *
> [shaping]: get my glue

You get some wood glue from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: apply my glue to my arrows

You dab the surface of your arrows with glue and attach the arrowheads to them.

* Third point where quality can drop. **
Now the flights are ready to be trimmed with a carving knife.
Roundtime: 17 sec.
R>
R>
R>
R> [shaping]: stow

You put your glue in your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: get my carving knife

You get a steel carving knife with a tempered blade from inside your duffel bag.
> [shaping]: carve my arrows with my knife

You whittle away the rough edges on your arrows using a steel carving knife with a tempered blade.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
Applying the final touches, you complete working on some soot-stained arrows.