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Would it be possible to make Prospect Careful unable to be done until at least the metal vein is reached.
Prospect Careful
Not enough material has been cleared away to find additional resorces.
I'm getting tired of someone going through the mines using prospect careful in every room for their training and leaving a lot more junk to mine out before its depleted to the point of a forced respawn of new materials.
I think its a jerk move on their part, and this way, they'd have to at least mine out about the equivelant of what they are adding by doing a prospect careful.
Telrenth
>>Would it be possible to make Prospect Careful unable to be done until at least the metal vein is reached.
Are you sure this is the way it works? I've been doing a lot of mining lately (450 App/550 Percep/350 Forage for reference) and whenever I find the metal I'm looking for the first thing I do is Prospect Careful. I may be wrong but it feels like I get more ore doing it that way than waiting until it's played out and then using careful.
Is this backwards? Should I be doing it the other way around?
Are you sure this is the way it works? I've been doing a lot of mining lately (450 App/550 Percep/350 Forage for reference) and whenever I find the metal I'm looking for the first thing I do is Prospect Careful. I may be wrong but it feels like I get more ore doing it that way than waiting until it's played out and then using careful.
Is this backwards? Should I be doing it the other way around?
When you reach 0 amounts of materials left, your chance to get a random rare metal to fall out instead of whatever you're normally mining increases.
So, if you mine out a room and THEN prospect careful, you have it happen twice.
Otherwise, there's no difference in using it at the start or at the end.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
So, if you mine out a room and THEN prospect careful, you have it happen twice.
Otherwise, there's no difference in using it at the start or at the end.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
<<Otherwise, there's no difference in using it at the start or at the end.>>
except in cases where you blow the vein. Its nice to have that prospect careful in yer back pocket.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif a
nd blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
except in cases where you blow the vein. Its nice to have that prospect careful in yer back pocket.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif a
nd blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
>>I may be wrong but it feels like I get more ore doing it that way than waiting until it's played out and then using careful.
I have seen no evidence that this is the case.
That, plus the two points others have brought up (that you get more chance at rare drops and that you can save something if the room caves in) makes it pretty clear that you should prospect careful at the very end of the metal.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice if people couldn't prospect careful at the start of every room because this does indeed cause problems for other miners. It makes it harder to clear rooms you don't want, and it takes away your ability to use the careful at the end of your mine.
-- Player of Eyuve
I have seen no evidence that this is the case.
That, plus the two points others have brought up (that you get more chance at rare drops and that you can save something if the room caves in) makes it pretty clear that you should prospect careful at the very end of the metal.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice if people couldn't prospect careful at the start of every room because this does indeed cause problems for other miners. It makes it harder to clear rooms you don't want, and it takes away your ability to use the careful at the end of your mine.
-- Player of Eyuve
>Is this backwards? Should I be doing it the other way around?
Yes.
When you get below half cleared (Decent?), you get a chance to mine a rare material. This %chance increases as the mine gets closer and closer to empty. On the last mine it's a relatively high chance.
So you clear the mine, then Prospect Careful to bring it back up with a little more, then clear more. Rather than start with a big pile you have 0% chance of getting a rare material, and then make that big pile bigger with 0% chance to get a rare material. (Unless of course it already is a rare metal, in which case it really doesn't matter. Although you can get a rare metal while mining a rare metal because of the aforementioned mechanics.)
>except in cases where you blow the vein. Its nice to have that prospect careful in yer back pocket.
This is ALSO a good reason to not prospect careful until the end (or you destroy the room).
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Yes.
When you get below half cleared (Decent?), you get a chance to mine a rare material. This %chance increases as the mine gets closer and closer to empty. On the last mine it's a relatively high chance.
So you clear the mine, then Prospect Careful to bring it back up with a little more, then clear more. Rather than start with a big pile you have 0% chance of getting a rare material, and then make that big pile bigger with 0% chance to get a rare material. (Unless of course it already is a rare metal, in which case it really doesn't matter. Although you can get a rare metal while mining a rare metal because of the aforementioned mechanics.)
>except in cases where you blow the vein. Its nice to have that prospect careful in yer back pocket.
This is ALSO a good reason to not prospect careful until the end (or you destroy the room).
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
I caught up to the person that was accused of prospecting careful the Dirge mine. The reason that person does it is for appraisal training. So, what other system allows a one time training action for a fairly long period of time for a single person. I am sure there would be an uproar if someone went to study artwork but couldn't learn because someone else had already studied it in the last hour. Or if power percieve could no longer be trained because someone else already percieved entire areas. Or how about climbing? Sorry, someone else already climbed this tree and until their footprints are gone, you won't learn anything.
It sounds like because its a good way to train, people are doing it which negatively impacts others when they are mining. It's currently set up as one time regardless of number of people. Perhaps make it so its skill based on amount of additional resources uncovered, but no training awarded? That might get people to stop doing it over time.
It sounds like because its a good way to train, people are doing it which negatively impacts others when they are mining. It's currently set up as one time regardless of number of people. Perhaps make it so its skill based on amount of additional resources uncovered, but no training awarded? That might get people to stop doing it over time.
>> The reason that person does it is for appraisal training
You get as much exp doing normal prospects. This is a bad excuse and they should feel bad.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
You get as much exp doing normal prospects. This is a bad excuse and they should feel bad.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I can't think of anything off the top of my head that trains just by virtue of getting there first, unless you count primo hunting rooms. Perhaps this was just something that GM's goofed on and didn't think about how players will find every advantage they can and use it. I don't think this form of training should be allowed, as it can't be done by everyone, just whoever gets there first.
After checking the Dirge mine again just a few minutes ago, I guess I came after an appraisal walker, instead of powerwalker, because most of the mine's rooms already had prospect careful done to em. I guess instead of trying to get this changed, I should just keep the entire mine that way myself. Why should I loose out on this training since I spend time in the mine actually mining instead of just walking through?
Telrenth
After checking the Dirge mine again just a few minutes ago, I guess I came after an appraisal walker, instead of powerwalker, because most of the mine's rooms already had prospect careful done to em. I guess instead of trying to get this changed, I should just keep the entire mine that way myself. Why should I loose out on this training since I spend time in the mine actually mining instead of just walking through?
Telrenth
I wonder if part of the problem is because the "careful" modifier here works differently than the "careful" modifier in all the other systems in the game? Appraise careful, disarm careful, forage careful... these are all ways to essentially give yourself a skill boost at the expense of RT. And since most systems in DR give you more experience the better you succeed, well, it's not hard to see how someone would think prospect careful is the way to go.
It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
>I wonder if part of the problem is because the "careful" modifier here works differently than the "careful" modifier in all the other systems in the game?
Interesting point. I guess changing the adverb to something else so it doesn't confuse people might help...
>It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
Yea I dunno, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's terrible design. Educating players/characters that they're 'doing it wrong', that prospect careful doesn't teach appraisal any better, and they're shooting themselves in the foot is really what needs to happen before I imagine the GMs are going to make systemic changes.
I realize that educating a zombie-bot through conversation or arrow to the face is exasperating, though.
Interesting point. I guess changing the adverb to something else so it doesn't confuse people might help...
>It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
Yea I dunno, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's terrible design. Educating players/characters that they're 'doing it wrong', that prospect careful doesn't teach appraisal any better, and they're shooting themselves in the foot is really what needs to happen before I imagine the GMs are going to make systemic changes.
I realize that educating a zombie-bot through conversation or arrow to the face is exasperating, though.
I would say it's a terrible design. Even if it doesn't teach any better than a regular prospect, they can do a prospect followed by a prospect careful. Since there is a limit on mining areas, they just doubled their training with what is available, if its equal. I can't even say they are doing it wrong since it does train better than just doing prospect. Its just that what they are doing impacts anyone else who mines or wants to train that way. Its a first come first serve senario that shouldn't exist. I'd say remove the ability to train that way, except it'd still impact those who actually mine.
I still think making it impossible to prospect careful a fresh room is the way to go. Gets rid of the easy first come first serve situation since they'd have to actually mine a bit before doing it, and keeps it still available for those who actually use it the way it was intended. It still allows a bit of additional training while uncovering additional resources a person actually wants to mine. Not the current uncovering additional resouces a person has no intention of mining.
Telrenth
I still think making it impossible to prospect careful a fresh room is the way to go. Gets rid of the easy first come first serve situation since they'd have to actually mine a bit before doing it, and keeps it still available for those who actually use it the way it was intended. It still allows a bit of additional training while uncovering additional resources a person actually wants to mine. Not the current uncovering additional resouces a person has no intention of mining.
Telrenth
>>Since there is a limit on mining areas, they just doubled their training with what is available, if its equal.
It still makes no sense. By the time I prospect all available rooms in Wicked Burrows (or Fang Cove) I'm already past the timer for the first rooms. I could loop through again without any problem.
It's sheer laziness.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
It still makes no sense. By the time I prospect all available rooms in Wicked Burrows (or Fang Cove) I'm already past the timer for the first rooms. I could loop through again without any problem.
It's sheer laziness.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Simple solution: remove experience gain from prospect careful
Done.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Done.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
>>Simple solution: remove experience gain from prospect careful
Most people who do this seem to do it because their scripts do it and they don't know better.
I have doubts that this will solve anything.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Most people who do this seem to do it because their scripts do it and they don't know better.
I have doubts that this will solve anything.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>>I have doubts that this will solve anything.
>If they suddenly stop getting exp (the desired reward) they will examine the actions not-generating the desired rewards.
I'm totally on board with this.
And then give us the difference in prospect danger exp.
And then an extra boost to dump junk exp. Recycling is good.
Okay fine, but serious on the first part.
>If they suddenly stop getting exp (the desired reward) they will examine the actions not-generating the desired rewards.
I'm totally on board with this.
And then give us the difference in prospect danger exp.
And then an extra boost to dump junk exp. Recycling is good.
Okay fine, but serious on the first part.
>>If they suddenly stop getting exp (the desired reward) they will examine the actions not-generating the desired rewards.
If they're using scripts, and they're not good enough to make their own, and they don't know how timers work anyway, I doubt they'll change the script.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
If they're using scripts, and they're not good enough to make their own, and they don't know how timers work anyway, I doubt they'll change the script.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Which brings it back to possibly tying it into the same flag that starts the percent chance of random rare drops. You won't ever get a random rare drop in a fresh room, can't even get one until the metal vein is uncovered. Just have the ability to prospect careful shut off until the flag to begin chance of random rare drop is triggered.
Telrenth
Telrenth
>Appraise careful, disarm careful, forage careful
>And since most systems in DR give you more experience the better you succeed
All three of those give less exp per action than doing it with a faster modifier. (There's also TAKE WOUND CAREFUL, which also teaches worse than QUICK/NORMAL)
You get more exp for more challenge.
>It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
But got to agree with you.
>I still think making it impossible to prospect careful a fresh room is the way to go
Is THE fix to implement.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>And since most systems in DR give you more experience the better you succeed
All three of those give less exp per action than doing it with a faster modifier. (There's also TAKE WOUND CAREFUL, which also teaches worse than QUICK/NORMAL)
You get more exp for more challenge.
>It's a terrible design decision to have prospect careful work how it does and should be fixed.
But got to agree with you.
>I still think making it impossible to prospect careful a fresh room is the way to go
Is THE fix to implement.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
