Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Could this be the mysterious mining related system?
Sounds cool even if it isn't.
But real DWARVES dig and tunnel. ;)
What happens in Dirge, stays in Dirge.
Yeah I can definitely see panning to be more foraging then mining. Real mining involves tunnels and axes.
Ice Patch - Because bludgeoning immobile things to death is fun.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Ice Patch - Because bludgeoning immobile things to death is fun.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
>Yeah I can definitely see panning to be more foraging then mining. Real mining involves tunnels and axes.
Thats just the grunt work of mining the skill comes in on the exploration and then seperation and processing sides. Any joe can be taught dig here and put all the material that looks like this in this bin for processing and all the material that doesn't in this bin for disposal.
scouting should be the skill to locate mines along with foraging;).
Seriously mines are located by exploration geologists who go out and explore areas looking for the geologic signs of the mineral deposit they are searching for. Some are easy to find AKA stone age flint obsisdian deposits where people pretty much found an open face exposed deposit. Likewise it is important to remember that as a finite resource minerals were at one time somewhat easier to locate. That is the naturally exposed surfaces(Overburden removed by natural processes) of copper iron and nickel deposits would be easily observable by someone passing by who knew what to look for. In our modern age such deposits are now rare and the resource geologists extrapolates from what signs he see's on the surface to what geology is likely under the area that justifies further exploration, he decides where to search based on a general knowledge of the geology of the area and the processes which form those rocks as well as the mineral being sought. In short foraging/scouting a knowledge of the world around you makes alot of sense in the identification of where to mine.
brawny guys come in and dig and seperate based on the geologists specifications. I want all the dark heavy rocks in the processing bin put all the greyish amterial in the waste bins.
At which point you get to processing. In DR terms there seems several likely avenues of this. Magic - Warmies and a connection to the earth elements magically seperating material. Mining is fundamentally more important to human civilization than any other activity except agriculture and some would argue even more important than agriculture as mining is the basis of the tools that make large scale agriculture and therefore a sedentary specialized civilization possible. If you've developed magic to fight war it would make sense magics were developed to extract minerals and provide for bountiful harvests as well. Indeed the harvest magics of minerals and agriculture would be expected to have come first with the agressive magics coming later as the advances in mining and agriculture led to larger populations competing over scarce resources.
Alchemical - The creation of acids to disolve quartz from suspended gold fans as well as basic flotation processes or even heaven forbid the creation of mercury amalgums then the evaporation of the mercury under temperature to capture the free gold picked up by the mercury.
Smelting heat related processes for metals in high concentration ores or even nugget form.
The two important aspects of mining are knowing where to dig and processing technology available for the ore being utilized. The digger can be anyone. Processing technology directly impacts the quality of deposit needed to produce economic results and exploration finds the places that contain ores of sufficient quantity and quality.
Obsidian umm that volcanic looking mountain is a good place to look etc... Others are more dificult such as historically active geothermal deposits creating fan or vein metal deposits for things like gold and platinum. Understanding geology and rocks is still the key to mining today and no mine gets any serious money spent until some rock hound has went and looked on the ground picking up likely samples for the assay work. If thats promising you drill some cores and assay those to define the deposit.
I can see valid reason to include foraging/scouting/magics/alchemy/mechanical lore(often have to grind material for maximum extraction potential) and even class related abilites for moonies and possbly earth mages in exploration and even processing. on the mundane non magical side foraging makes alot of sense for the non magical miners.
However the idea of foraging as the base of some systems accurately recognizes the root of mining as a hunting and gathering activity where we first started picking up free pieces of obsidian flint etc...It was easy at first but over time those free deposits grew scarce and guys had to start knocking hunks off the cliff face itself as those freed by nature were used up. Eventually that cliff became unminable and you located another source by going hmm whats unique about this spot and looking for others with similar charachteristics. once people figured out some dark heavy rocks became iron they'ld have to go search for dark heavy rocks, hmm look at those in the creek/dry wash coming from those hills lets go look and see if there is more.
of course it sounds like DR mining is gonna be much more basic.
Thats just the grunt work of mining the skill comes in on the exploration and then seperation and processing sides. Any joe can be taught dig here and put all the material that looks like this in this bin for processing and all the material that doesn't in this bin for disposal.
scouting should be the skill to locate mines along with foraging;).
Seriously mines are located by exploration geologists who go out and explore areas looking for the geologic signs of the mineral deposit they are searching for. Some are easy to find AKA stone age flint obsisdian deposits where people pretty much found an open face exposed deposit. Likewise it is important to remember that as a finite resource minerals were at one time somewhat easier to locate. That is the naturally exposed surfaces(Overburden removed by natural processes) of copper iron and nickel deposits would be easily observable by someone passing by who knew what to look for. In our modern age such deposits are now rare and the resource geologists extrapolates from what signs he see's on the surface to what geology is likely under the area that justifies further exploration, he decides where to search based on a general knowledge of the geology of the area and the processes which form those rocks as well as the mineral being sought. In short foraging/scouting a knowledge of the world around you makes alot of sense in the identification of where to mine.
brawny guys come in and dig and seperate based on the geologists specifications. I want all the dark heavy rocks in the processing bin put all the greyish amterial in the waste bins.
At which point you get to processing. In DR terms there seems several likely avenues of this. Magic - Warmies and a connection to the earth elements magically seperating material. Mining is fundamentally more important to human civilization than any other activity except agriculture and some would argue even more important than agriculture as mining is the basis of the tools that make large scale agriculture and therefore a sedentary specialized civilization possible. If you've developed magic to fight war it would make sense magics were developed to extract minerals and provide for bountiful harvests as well. Indeed the harvest magics of minerals and agriculture would be expected to have come first with the agressive magics coming later as the advances in mining and agriculture led to larger populations competing over scarce resources.
Alchemical - The creation of acids to disolve quartz from suspended gold fans as well as basic flotation processes or even heaven forbid the creation of mercury amalgums then the evaporation of the mercury under temperature to capture the free gold picked up by the mercury.
Smelting heat related processes for metals in high concentration ores or even nugget form.
The two important aspects of mining are knowing where to dig and processing technology available for the ore being utilized. The digger can be anyone. Processing technology directly impacts the quality of deposit needed to produce economic results and exploration finds the places that contain ores of sufficient quantity and quality.
Obsidian umm that volcanic looking mountain is a good place to look etc... Others are more dificult such as historically active geothermal deposits creating fan or vein metal deposits for things like gold and platinum. Understanding geology and rocks is still the key to mining today and no mine gets any serious money spent until some rock hound has went and looked on the ground picking up likely samples for the assay work. If thats promising you drill some cores and assay those to define the deposit.
I can see valid reason to include foraging/scouting/magics/alchemy/mechanical lore(often have to grind material for maximum extraction potential) and even class related abilites for moonies and possbly earth mages in exploration and even processing. on the mundane non magical side foraging makes alot of sense for the non magical miners.
However the idea of foraging as the base of some systems accurately recognizes the root of mining as a hunting and gathering activity where we first started picking up free pieces of obsidian flint etc...It was easy at first but over time those free deposits grew scarce and guys had to start knocking hunks off the cliff face itself as those freed by nature were used up. Eventually that cliff became unminable and you located another source by going hmm whats unique about this spot and looking for others with similar charachteristics. once people figured out some dark heavy rocks became iron they'ld have to go search for dark heavy rocks, hmm look at those in the creek/dry wash coming from those hills lets go look and see if there is more.
of course it sounds like DR mining is gonna be much more basic.
> of course it sounds like DR mining is gonna be much more basic.
If it was gonna be much more basic, I'd have it done already. However, I would like to point out we are talking primarily about mining five centuries or more ago, not modern geology and mining. As someone who spent 5 years as a geology major and has logged more hours than he cares to admit tramping through the desert and over mountains doing mapping and scouting work, I think I have at least a basic grasp of how the system works. Just don't confuse how it works now with how it worked five hundred centuries ago or more. Mining and prospecting, at least in the high-powered economic sense we know it now, is very new in a historical sense. The ancients weren't exactly dummies, but they also didn't exactly send geologists around taking samples and studying the land in order to predict where the rich veins were located, either. For one thing, they really didn't need to. In those days surface deposits were still largely untapped, and pretty much screamed, "Dig here!" Oh, I'm not implying there weren't experts or large organized systems, but the times and the beliefs were much different in the past than they are today, let alone the technologies. I'm fairly sure, for example, we aren't using dowsing rods and entrails of goats to divine where to find gold deposits. Okay, most of us aren't, anyway.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
If it was gonna be much more basic, I'd have it done already. However, I would like to point out we are talking primarily about mining five centuries or more ago, not modern geology and mining. As someone who spent 5 years as a geology major and has logged more hours than he cares to admit tramping through the desert and over mountains doing mapping and scouting work, I think I have at least a basic grasp of how the system works. Just don't confuse how it works now with how it worked five hundred centuries ago or more. Mining and prospecting, at least in the high-powered economic sense we know it now, is very new in a historical sense. The ancients weren't exactly dummies, but they also didn't exactly send geologists around taking samples and studying the land in order to predict where the rich veins were located, either. For one thing, they really didn't need to. In those days surface deposits were still largely untapped, and pretty much screamed, "Dig here!" Oh, I'm not implying there weren't experts or large organized systems, but the times and the beliefs were much different in the past than they are today, let alone the technologies. I'm fairly sure, for example, we aren't using dowsing rods and entrails of goats to divine where to find gold deposits. Okay, most of us aren't, anyway.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
>I'm fairly sure, for example, we aren't using dowsing rods and entrails of goats to divine where to find gold deposits.
I slaughtered a goat last week cause I couldn't find my bastie. Turns out it was next to the skinning knife I need, so it totally worked.
~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>We are Rangers, all your releases are belong to us. ~ Sylvado
I slaughtered a goat last week cause I couldn't find my bastie. Turns out it was next to the skinning knife I need, so it totally worked.
~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>We are Rangers, all your releases are belong to us. ~ Sylvado
>For one thing, they really didn't need to. In those days surface deposits were still largely untapped, and pretty much screamed, "Dig here!" Oh, I'm not implying there weren't experts or large organized systems, but the times and the beliefs were much different in the past than they are today, let alone the technologies. I'm fairly sure, for example, we aren't using dowsing rods and entrails of goats to divine where to find gold deposits. Okay, most of us aren't, anyway.
That s what I meant when I talked about
>Likewise it is important to remember that as a finite resource minerals were at one time somewhat easier to locate. That is the naturally exposed surfaces(Overburden removed by natural processes) of copper iron and nickel deposits would be easily observable by someone passing by who knew what to look for.
to get succesful routinely you still had to know what to look for and in many ways that basic knowledge is closer to the perception of foraging skill than the exploration geologist who is more of the scouting skill. At the stone age level the comparison to foraging is even easier the closer to modern times the more it becomes like scouting to get it right consistently. (Absent some weird geologic and cultural scenarios like california where there was so much lying around relatively recently despite a long history of habitation).
as for using the entrails of goats to find gold that seems a perfectly viable moonie system in the DR world to me. Why limit exploration to one skill set there should be mutiple varied ways of doing it. Some more similar to the mundane world of observation and knowledge or even just basic random luck to magically derived ones.
In terms of digging the hole thats just backbreaking work made more efficent possibly my mech lore so you are cutting out more good ore and less junk. Preventing cave in's absolutely mech lore if you get that detailed and make us shore up excavations. GOtta ahve traders mules to move that ore or process on site then move it?
look forward to whatever your planning mining has been absent from DR way to long.
So do you enjoy beer as much as all the other geologists seem to. I swear theres something about those long trips with coeds to hot remote dusty locations that brings out the party animal. Or maybe thats why they take the classes never been certain.
For substances as rarecurrently as glaes and kert I don't think exposed surfaces of it makes much sense however. If that was the case there should already be more of it about from the invisible mining population.
That s what I meant when I talked about
>Likewise it is important to remember that as a finite resource minerals were at one time somewhat easier to locate. That is the naturally exposed surfaces(Overburden removed by natural processes) of copper iron and nickel deposits would be easily observable by someone passing by who knew what to look for.
to get succesful routinely you still had to know what to look for and in many ways that basic knowledge is closer to the perception of foraging skill than the exploration geologist who is more of the scouting skill. At the stone age level the comparison to foraging is even easier the closer to modern times the more it becomes like scouting to get it right consistently. (Absent some weird geologic and cultural scenarios like california where there was so much lying around relatively recently despite a long history of habitation).
as for using the entrails of goats to find gold that seems a perfectly viable moonie system in the DR world to me. Why limit exploration to one skill set there should be mutiple varied ways of doing it. Some more similar to the mundane world of observation and knowledge or even just basic random luck to magically derived ones.
In terms of digging the hole thats just backbreaking work made more efficent possibly my mech lore so you are cutting out more good ore and less junk. Preventing cave in's absolutely mech lore if you get that detailed and make us shore up excavations. GOtta ahve traders mules to move that ore or process on site then move it?
look forward to whatever your planning mining has been absent from DR way to long.
So do you enjoy beer as much as all the other geologists seem to. I swear theres something about those long trips with coeds to hot remote dusty locations that brings out the party animal. Or maybe thats why they take the classes never been certain.
For substances as rarecurrently as glaes and kert I don't think exposed surfaces of it makes much sense however. If that was the case there should already be more of it about from the invisible mining population.
Nice posts. And they all make good sense.
I just hate to point out that right now there's a book (explaining mining in Forfedhal) that specifically states that appraisal and mech lore are primary factors in mining.
Using that book I made a mining character and made him a trader, so he could go ahead and start training those areas as a primary skillset.
It'll be a long while till we get mining, and the in-game resource (about the only one I've come across really) steers them this way. I just hope that if it changes we have enough advance notification.
Now in my case I have a Dwarven Ranger who also has a mining RP background so I won't be totally out of luck. I doubt there's a hug number of people this would affect but I just felt that the in-game reference should be remembered and either adjusted or deleted once the decision is made.
I was talking with a geologist for a local mining operation and I asked him how they found the minerals they were looking for and he said "Quite often I just walk around and look for the pits the old guys dug. They knew what they were doing."
So scouting would make sense. But so would appraisal in a way.
I don't envy you Dartenian. Building a DR system from scratch that involves the many different tasks of mining with the skills available in DR and balancing and scaling that sounds like a small nightmare.
-=What happens in Dirge, stays in Dirge.=-
I just hate to point out that right now there's a book (explaining mining in Forfedhal) that specifically states that appraisal and mech lore are primary factors in mining.
Using that book I made a mining character and made him a trader, so he could go ahead and start training those areas as a primary skillset.
It'll be a long while till we get mining, and the in-game resource (about the only one I've come across really) steers them this way. I just hope that if it changes we have enough advance notification.
Now in my case I have a Dwarven Ranger who also has a mining RP background so I won't be totally out of luck. I doubt there's a hug number of people this would affect but I just felt that the in-game reference should be remembered and either adjusted or deleted once the decision is made.
I was talking with a geologist for a local mining operation and I asked him how they found the minerals they were looking for and he said "Quite often I just walk around and look for the pits the old guys dug. They knew what they were doing."
So scouting would make sense. But so would appraisal in a way.
I don't envy you Dartenian. Building a DR system from scratch that involves the many different tasks of mining with the skills available in DR and balancing and scaling that sounds like a small nightmare.
-=What happens in Dirge, stays in Dirge.=-
>I just hate to point out that right now there's a book (explaining mining in Forfedhal) that specifically states that appraisal and mech lore are primary factors in mining.
a field geologist appraises alot. Many minerals look alot alike and based on their detemrination of everything from textures color hardness they come up with an idea of what minerals are part of it and in what relative proportions.
I could see something like:
APP rock
you study the rock with a practiced eye and are certain it has veins of gold running through it.
The rock is primarily composed of quartz
The rock is Hard
The rock is somehwat fragile
vs unskilled
App rock
you turn the rock around in your fingers looking at it carefully and think you may see something within.
the rock is white
you think the rock seems hard
you think the rock is durable
clearly in the first case break out the pick in the second umm who knows.
And certainly mech lore can factor into alot of things as well from extraction efficiency to processing and processing efficiency.
a field geologist appraises alot. Many minerals look alot alike and based on their detemrination of everything from textures color hardness they come up with an idea of what minerals are part of it and in what relative proportions.
I could see something like:
APP rock
you study the rock with a practiced eye and are certain it has veins of gold running through it.
The rock is primarily composed of quartz
The rock is Hard
The rock is somehwat fragile
vs unskilled
App rock
you turn the rock around in your fingers looking at it carefully and think you may see something within.
the rock is white
you think the rock seems hard
you think the rock is durable
clearly in the first case break out the pick in the second umm who knows.
And certainly mech lore can factor into alot of things as well from extraction efficiency to processing and processing efficiency.
>>five hundred centuries ago
I don't believe that was the height of ancient mining technology there. If that's your template for what is possible/plausible in a pseudo-medievo-renaissance world, expect hordes of very unhappy and disappointed campers. :)
FYI, 500 centuries ago is like 50,000 years ago, long before civilization and thus mining ever formed, so your template from this time period would be pretty much plain foraging for minerals and metals just lying out on the surface (in other words, the Prydaen way).
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
I don't believe that was the height of ancient mining technology there. If that's your template for what is possible/plausible in a pseudo-medievo-renaissance world, expect hordes of very unhappy and disappointed campers. :)
FYI, 500 centuries ago is like 50,000 years ago, long before civilization and thus mining ever formed, so your template from this time period would be pretty much plain foraging for minerals and metals just lying out on the surface (in other words, the Prydaen way).
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
J'Lo, if you reread Dartenian's post you'll see he initially stated 5 centuries. "However, I would like to point out we are talking primarily about mining five centuries or more ago, not modern geology and mining." I'd presume the latter 500 centuries was a typo where he likely combined an attempt at 5 centuries and 500 years. Given his knowledge on the topic I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be using the pre-bronze age civilizations as a guide for mining.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
GM Oolan Jeel
"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.
> I'd presume the latter 500 centuries was a typo where he likely combined an attempt at 5 centuries and 500
years
Oops? Yeah, I meant 5 centuries / 500 years. Although come to think of it, mining techniques from 500 centuries ago would probably be a LOT easier to code...
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
years
Oops? Yeah, I meant 5 centuries / 500 years. Although come to think of it, mining techniques from 500 centuries ago would probably be a LOT easier to code...
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Will there be underground mining eventually? I was looking forward to some cave-ins, poisonous gas etc. Take advantage of my ability to heal myself and others in a mining group and keeping us going etc.
Seems like panning ties in well with foraging, but I would love to have something to do with all of these lore ranks. Learning at a decent clip would be fantastic too.
Very cool that you have a background in Geology Dart. Looking forward to the system however it pans out <
le'pun. Ar ta tar tar!
Thanks,
~Purehand
Seems like panning ties in well with foraging, but I would love to have something to do with all of these lore ranks. Learning at a decent clip would be fantastic too.
Very cool that you have a background in Geology Dart. Looking forward to the system however it pans out <
le'pun. Ar ta tar tar!
Thanks,
~Purehand
> Will there be underground mining eventually? I was looking forward to some cave-ins, poisonous gas etc. Take advantage of my ability to heal myself and others in a mining group and keeping us going etc.
You betcha, and yes, you can...er...look forward to stuff like cave-ins, poisonous gas, irritated balrogs, and the like. Okay, maybe not irritated balrogs, but definitely bad air and cave-ins.
> Seems like panning ties in well with foraging, but I would love to have something to do with all of these lore ranks. Learning at a decent clip would be fantastic too.
I can pretty much guarantee Appraisal and Alchemy/Mech Lore will be involved in the system. Not saying they are the only ones, just the two most likely.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
You betcha, and yes, you can...er...look forward to stuff like cave-ins, poisonous gas, irritated balrogs, and the like. Okay, maybe not irritated balrogs, but definitely bad air and cave-ins.
> Seems like panning ties in well with foraging, but I would love to have something to do with all of these lore ranks. Learning at a decent clip would be fantastic too.
I can pretty much guarantee Appraisal and Alchemy/Mech Lore will be involved in the system. Not saying they are the only ones, just the two most likely.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
>Okay, maybe not irritated balrogs, but definitely bad air and cave-ins.
Balrogs would rock, Gandalf seriously power circled by just killing one.
It's not a fursuit... it's a giant paper bag.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Balrogs would rock, Gandalf seriously power circled by just killing one.
It's not a fursuit... it's a giant paper bag.
Lots more stuff coming 'Soon'!
http://www.zairius.com
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
>Balrogs would rock, Gandalf seriously power circled by just killing one.
No, all he did was open a bad moongate at the bottom of the cave and DRAG BALROG GATE so they both die. He lost exp cuz that was an insta-depart. He's lucky that beards were changed so when he came back he didn't look like Magneto.
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
No, all he did was open a bad moongate at the bottom of the cave and DRAG BALROG GATE so they both die. He lost exp cuz that was an insta-depart. He's lucky that beards were changed so when he came back he didn't look like Magneto.
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
>>Okay, maybe not irritated balrogs, but definitely bad air and cave-ins.
>>I can pretty much guarantee Appraisal and Alchemy/Mech Lore will be involved in the system. Not saying they are the only ones, just the two most likely.
Alchemy? Hmm, I'm guessing the big thing is appraisal to identify the rock, with alchemy/mech telling you what's supposed to be in there (ie, similar to the SCOUT AREA foraging suggestion to determine environment)? Or will the Alchemy hook be us whipping up materials that make mining easier (ie, rock-eating acids or chemicals that reveal what type of mineral we have, poison cures so we can work longer, etc)?
Hopefully we'll see some canaries as well.
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
>>I can pretty much guarantee Appraisal and Alchemy/Mech Lore will be involved in the system. Not saying they are the only ones, just the two most likely.
Alchemy? Hmm, I'm guessing the big thing is appraisal to identify the rock, with alchemy/mech telling you what's supposed to be in there (ie, similar to the SCOUT AREA foraging suggestion to determine environment)? Or will the Alchemy hook be us whipping up materials that make mining easier (ie, rock-eating acids or chemicals that reveal what type of mineral we have, poison cures so we can work longer, etc)?
Hopefully we'll see some canaries as well.
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
>Alchemy? Hmm, I'm guessing the big thing is appraisal to identify the rock
Appraise could be used for a lot of things -- recognizing the stability of an area, knowing the best place to dig, and of course identifying what you find. Not that I'm not saying it WILL do all these things, since I've only got the plans for panning formally proposed and approved, but those are some of the potential uses.
> with alchemy/mech telling you what's supposed to be in there (ie, similar to the SCOUT AREA foraging suggestion to determine environment)?
Actually, alchemy could be used in a couple of ways. It could be used to help identify substances, as well as to aid in the recovery of valuable materials. For example, alchemy would be useful in the amalgamation of gold dust. Alchemy, mech lore, or other creation lores might be useful in the process of removing and refining ore. There are a lot of possibilities to be explored.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Appraise could be used for a lot of things -- recognizing the stability of an area, knowing the best place to dig, and of course identifying what you find. Not that I'm not saying it WILL do all these things, since I've only got the plans for panning formally proposed and approved, but those are some of the potential uses.
> with alchemy/mech telling you what's supposed to be in there (ie, similar to the SCOUT AREA foraging suggestion to determine environment)?
Actually, alchemy could be used in a couple of ways. It could be used to help identify substances, as well as to aid in the recovery of valuable materials. For example, alchemy would be useful in the amalgamation of gold dust. Alchemy, mech lore, or other creation lores might be useful in the process of removing and refining ore. There are a lot of possibilities to be explored.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Heh, all I ask is that Earth Sense the spell has a place in mining. It only makes sense considering its wording, function and niche seems perfect for this kind of thing.
As a guild without any real creation system, I'm itching to get involved in something. It might even lead to more mages picking the durn spell. I have complete trust that the system will be fun, but I just think in this instance WMs should have some benefit. We currently get nothing special for being lore secondary, so it wouldn't be out of place either...
Thank you for considering it.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
As a guild without any real creation system, I'm itching to get involved in something. It might even lead to more mages picking the durn spell. I have complete trust that the system will be fun, but I just think in this instance WMs should have some benefit. We currently get nothing special for being lore secondary, so it wouldn't be out of place either...
Thank you for considering it.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
I still think Lore should be swapped with Survival secondry for Warmies =( I mean seriously, the only knowledge warmies' theme encourages is the knowledge in battle.. not bookworming! And warmies are the only ones who share the exact same skill set with another guild: clerics =\
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
>>Heh, all I ask is that Earth Sense the spell has a place in mining.
I think this is probably a good way to implement a War Mage bonus to the lore skillset that currently doesn't exist. Perhaps even just knowing a certain number of earth spells could aid in the mage's ability (or allow the mage to quest for or learn an ability) to appraise rocky materials for mineral extraction, or perhaps surveying a mine for deposits. Sure footing or perhaps one of the two new earth spells could be used to reinforce the area to prevent mine collapse. Aegis of Granite could potentially be general cast to strengthen the walls (removing the risk of rocks falling but perhaps making the actual mining give a higher roundtime), or perhaps the hand from Anther's Call could be used as a support pillar, bracing the ceiling.
More compatibility of War Mage spells with lore systems in general would be great.
For example, War Mage magics could be used in the upcoming forging system, where fire magics could help heat the fires beneath the crucible faster and keep them running hot for longer. Even bards (as lore prime and magic secondary elementalists) could potentially use their enchante that heats the room to get a similar effect. While it wouldn't give any advantages to the end product, it would make the process a bit easier (not requiring less skill for the character but less work for the player to do and less fatigue for the character due to not having to manually create the fire) and a bit faster. Aether, as the element that binds the rest, could potentially be used to slightly decrease the risk of breakage of an unfinished weapon during pounding (perhaps casting ES on the weapon or again potentially a seperate ability). Zephyr already helps us with fatigue in general during the process.
Hopefully lore system designers will consider adding these capabilities for war mages, or at least add hooks to the code so that such abilities could be added at a later time, especially considering lore seems to be the next big thing to be overhauled with the upcoming mech split.
-Gandoloth
I think this is probably a good way to implement a War Mage bonus to the lore skillset that currently doesn't exist. Perhaps even just knowing a certain number of earth spells could aid in the mage's ability (or allow the mage to quest for or learn an ability) to appraise rocky materials for mineral extraction, or perhaps surveying a mine for deposits. Sure footing or perhaps one of the two new earth spells could be used to reinforce the area to prevent mine collapse. Aegis of Granite could potentially be general cast to strengthen the walls (removing the risk of rocks falling but perhaps making the actual mining give a higher roundtime), or perhaps the hand from Anther's Call could be used as a support pillar, bracing the ceiling.
More compatibility of War Mage spells with lore systems in general would be great.
For example, War Mage magics could be used in the upcoming forging system, where fire magics could help heat the fires beneath the crucible faster and keep them running hot for longer. Even bards (as lore prime and magic secondary elementalists) could potentially use their enchante that heats the room to get a similar effect. While it wouldn't give any advantages to the end product, it would make the process a bit easier (not requiring less skill for the character but less work for the player to do and less fatigue for the character due to not having to manually create the fire) and a bit faster. Aether, as the element that binds the rest, could potentially be used to slightly decrease the risk of breakage of an unfinished weapon during pounding (perhaps casting ES on the weapon or again potentially a seperate ability). Zephyr already helps us with fatigue in general during the process.
Hopefully lore system designers will consider adding these capabilities for war mages, or at least add hooks to the code so that such abilities could be added at a later time, especially considering lore seems to be the next big thing to be overhauled with the upcoming mech split.
-Gandoloth
Heh, if weapon enchanting was on the todo list I'd probably not care too much. My gut feeling says Enchanting is still one of those things we won't be seeing for quite a while. In the meantime, I just need some "in" to a system to make it worth my while and fun at the same time. I'm not really sure how many WMs care about lore systems in general. I do, because quite frankly having 1 guild defined goal in life (killing stuff) gets boring as all get out after 1 year let alone 3.
WMs seemed like the one guild that would fit right at home underground. We have existing abilities to support such a line of thinking, and we've got no real home-lore skill that has been decided upon (at least publicly). Now I'm not sure how everyone feels about it being mining... but a decision has to be made at some point just so everyone can proceed hehe.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
WMs seemed like the one guild that would fit right at home underground. We have existing abilities to support such a line of thinking, and we've got no real home-lore skill that has been decided upon (at least publicly). Now I'm not sure how everyone feels about it being mining... but a decision has to be made at some point just so everyone can proceed hehe.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
I could definitely see WMs having a niche in the whole alchemy/making it useful part of mining, whereas Rangers would have the benefit in the actual finding of the stuff. Though I'm sure you'd get people saying that they are WARRIOR mages, so why would they have knowledge of metalurgy?
Still, seems like a fairly natural fit to me.
Danner
Still, seems like a fairly natural fit to me.
Danner
Well if WARRIORS is all that we are, then it is too bad someone messed up and made us Lore secondary. Names aside, we are still MAGES as well. MAGE covers a broad aspect, mostly MAGIC and LORE which leads to metallurgy or alchemy (or enchanting if that is to be the case, but who knows?).
Our WARRIOR part is found in our ability to kill stuff better, which I'm just not seeing now in 2006. Quite frankly we're starting to make sucky warriors the more our magic is changed - and being lore secondary is quite a disadvantage when looking at the big picture if we are to only be WARRIORS. SOMEONE had to build the WM guild in Crossings after all. If you look at the construction it is quite obvious they knew what they were doing - and perhaps even used magic to assist them. I don't see why the same cannot be applied elsewhere.
Just the ramblings of a mage who's grown much too bored with killing stuff, and is greatly looking forward to doing something else with his time. I like things to make sense after all. When a guild has a spell as point-blank obvious as Earth Sense, having it provide some bonus to mining/panning seems like a good argument :P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Our WARRIOR part is found in our ability to kill stuff better, which I'm just not seeing now in 2006. Quite frankly we're starting to make sucky warriors the more our magic is changed - and being lore secondary is quite a disadvantage when looking at the big picture if we are to only be WARRIORS. SOMEONE had to build the WM guild in Crossings after all. If you look at the construction it is quite obvious they knew what they were doing - and perhaps even used magic to assist them. I don't see why the same cannot be applied elsewhere.
Just the ramblings of a mage who's grown much too bored with killing stuff, and is greatly looking forward to doing something else with his time. I like things to make sense after all. When a guild has a spell as point-blank obvious as Earth Sense, having it provide some bonus to mining/panning seems like a good argument :P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Even if Warmies get survival swapped with lore set, though, Warmies can still do non warrior stuff all like mining via foraging application. I'm sure there's other things to apply. Personally I just don't see the "lore" bit fit for Warmies, that's what Moonies are doing already.
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
>put my head on anvil
You put your head on the iron anvil.
>awaken
You can't do that while you are asleep.
>bbs
You begin to doze off again.
Yes but unless that swap happens, we are still a lore secondary guild of mages.
Moonies get lore that coresponds to their "scholarly side". ie. special forms of travel. manipulating fate and enchanting predictive bonusing type things. Warrior mages are more material-oriented, harnessing the elements in lore-oriented forms. ie. alchemy and weapon enchanting.
I am just asking for acknowledgment that we are a lore secondary guild of mages, and some lore oriented things might make sense for us to do better. Such as mining, when we already know a spell that sees right through the earth :P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Moonies get lore that coresponds to their "scholarly side". ie. special forms of travel. manipulating fate and enchanting predictive bonusing type things. Warrior mages are more material-oriented, harnessing the elements in lore-oriented forms. ie. alchemy and weapon enchanting.
I am just asking for acknowledgment that we are a lore secondary guild of mages, and some lore oriented things might make sense for us to do better. Such as mining, when we already know a spell that sees right through the earth :P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
