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When Gandalf told me that Gollum used to be a hobbit, I just got so depressed all of a sudden. I really did. I mean, if he's supposed to be a hobbit, why can't he just BE one? People should just stay what they are and not go changing into goddamn slimey reptile creatures. To be honest, this whole ring thing was really making me depressed as hell. The quest was giving me a big pain in the ass. If anyone ever tries to give you an all powerful ring, don't take it, it will only make you more depressed, I swear to God.
The things I find online, geez. :)
The Ring stretches life out beyond a point healthy any longer. Gollum/Smeagul was 589 years old, WAY older than any hobbit was meant to ever be (Bilbo was 129 in TA3019 himself because of the Ring), all due to being infected with Sauron's magic which is the Ring.
Some other ages of characters during the War of the Ring:
Frodo: 51
Samwise: 39
Meriadoc: 37
Peregrin: 29
Legolas: ?, but considering he is an elf and immortal (outside of getting skewered by a sword or arrow that is), a few centurys I would suspect at the least.
Gimli: 140
Boromir: 41 (the only human close to what a real human is)
Aragorn: 88
Gandalf: 2019 (He arrived in Middle Earth in year TA1000 from "over the seas". That number just reflects how long he has been in Middle Earth)
Oldest living creature (outside of Sauron) in Middle Earth at this time is Galadriel. She actually was involved during the Elf wars with Morgoth during the First Age making her 10,000+ years old!
Something the movie doesn't come across is the time frames of all these things. The ages of the events they are involved in are mind boggling. The movie does a poor job reflecting that.
Ken
Some other ages of characters during the War of the Ring:
Frodo: 51
Samwise: 39
Meriadoc: 37
Peregrin: 29
Legolas: ?, but considering he is an elf and immortal (outside of getting skewered by a sword or arrow that is), a few centurys I would suspect at the least.
Gimli: 140
Boromir: 41 (the only human close to what a real human is)
Aragorn: 88
Gandalf: 2019 (He arrived in Middle Earth in year TA1000 from "over the seas". That number just reflects how long he has been in Middle Earth)
Oldest living creature (outside of Sauron) in Middle Earth at this time is Galadriel. She actually was involved during the Elf wars with Morgoth during the First Age making her 10,000+ years old!
Something the movie doesn't come across is the time frames of all these things. The ages of the events they are involved in are mind boggling. The movie does a poor job reflecting that.
Ken
Actually, I think you're gettin' two spiders confused a bit. Ungoliant was the original spider, the spider they ran into was Shelob, possibly one of her (great?)offspring. Galadriel is one of the oldest elves remaining(very possibly the oldest), and the Ents were walking around before the Elves were.
Regarding Elrond's attitude...he might understand part of her position being half-elven himself, but the thing to remember is that Elrond is a twin. His brother chose to become a mortal and died...having lost a brother like that, I can only imagine how he'd feel about a daughter going the same way. I think that's probably one of the main motivations that drives him.
______No matter what it is, there is nothing that cannot be done. If one manifests the determination, he can move heaven and earth as he pleases. Moving heaven and earth without putting forth effort is merely a matter of concentration.
Regarding Elrond's attitude...he might understand part of her position being half-elven himself, but the thing to remember is that Elrond is a twin. His brother chose to become a mortal and died...having lost a brother like that, I can only imagine how he'd feel about a daughter going the same way. I think that's probably one of the main motivations that drives him.
______No matter what it is, there is nothing that cannot be done. If one manifests the determination, he can move heaven and earth as he pleases. Moving heaven and earth without putting forth effort is merely a matter of concentration.
>>Galadriel is one of the oldest elves remaining(very possibly the oldest), and the Ents were walking around before the Elves were.<<
Ah, the Ents. I forgot about them, as they didn't seem to have much of a hand in the power struggles. Fangorn/Treebeard then is the oldest living creature in Middle Earth, if we take Ents as part of the social order. And for that matter then, we could say that Tom Bombadil is then the oldest creature in Middle Earth, yet that wouldn't be quite fair, as he lives in a world apart from the concerns of Middle Earth, even moreso than Fangorn.
Ken
Ah, the Ents. I forgot about them, as they didn't seem to have much of a hand in the power struggles. Fangorn/Treebeard then is the oldest living creature in Middle Earth, if we take Ents as part of the social order. And for that matter then, we could say that Tom Bombadil is then the oldest creature in Middle Earth, yet that wouldn't be quite fair, as he lives in a world apart from the concerns of Middle Earth, even moreso than Fangorn.
Ken
>>Ah, the Ents. I forgot about them, as they didn't seem to have much of a hand in the power struggles. Fangorn/Treebeard then is the oldest living creature in Middle Earth, if we take Ents as part of the social order.
Actually Ents originated shortly after the Elves. Remember, Elves are referred to as the Firstborn by the Valar. Treebeard is the eldest Ent of Fangorn Forest, so he's definitely up there among the eldest creatures in Middle-Earth, though.
>>And for that matter then, we could say that Tom Bombadil is then the oldest creature in Middle Earth, yet that wouldn't be quite fair, as he lives in a world apart from the concerns of Middle Earth, even moreso than Fangorn.
Tom is an enigma, intentionally, according to JRRT in his letters. There have been pseudo-scholarly debates between fans for years... Is he a Maia? The fourteenth Vala? Some nameless spirit? In Goldberry's own words, "He is." Tom says he was there even before the Elves passed westward... this'd be the original migration before the years of the sun, six ages previous. I think he should be left out of this debate of the oldest creatures in Middle-Earth, though, since I don't even consider him alive.
He just is.
Actually Ents originated shortly after the Elves. Remember, Elves are referred to as the Firstborn by the Valar. Treebeard is the eldest Ent of Fangorn Forest, so he's definitely up there among the eldest creatures in Middle-Earth, though.
>>And for that matter then, we could say that Tom Bombadil is then the oldest creature in Middle Earth, yet that wouldn't be quite fair, as he lives in a world apart from the concerns of Middle Earth, even moreso than Fangorn.
Tom is an enigma, intentionally, according to JRRT in his letters. There have been pseudo-scholarly debates between fans for years... Is he a Maia? The fourteenth Vala? Some nameless spirit? In Goldberry's own words, "He is." Tom says he was there even before the Elves passed westward... this'd be the original migration before the years of the sun, six ages previous. I think he should be left out of this debate of the oldest creatures in Middle-Earth, though, since I don't even consider him alive.
He just is.
>>Actually Ents originated shortly after the Elves. Remember, Elves are referred to as the Firstborn by the Valar. <<
Actually, I was a bit off...
"Behold! When the Children awake then the thought of Yavana shall awake also, and they will go among the kelvar(animals) and olvar(growing things), and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young."
______No matter what it is, there is nothing that cannot be done. If one manifests the determination, he can move heaven and earth as he pleases. Moving heaven and earth without putting forth effort is merely a matter of concentration.
Actually, I was a bit off...
"Behold! When the Children awake then the thought of Yavana shall awake also, and they will go among the kelvar(animals) and olvar(growing things), and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young."
______No matter what it is, there is nothing that cannot be done. If one manifests the determination, he can move heaven and earth as he pleases. Moving heaven and earth without putting forth effort is merely a matter of concentration.
Your all forgetting Tom.
He was there before the Elf's went west the first time, making him the eldest creature in middle earth. Well it is between him and treebear actually, he's created before the elves awake as well. But not before the eagles.
Relevant Silmarillion Passages:
"That also shall come to be by the heed of Iluvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eages of the Lords of the West"
followed by
"'Nay,' he said, 'only the tress of Aule will be tall enough. In the mounts the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon us. But in the forests shall walk the Shepherds of the Trees."
Page 41 in Harper Collins Trade papers.
and from the FOTR:
"That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless."
as to what Tom, no one, not even Tolkien explained his full and true place in middle earth.
Azkial
He was there before the Elf's went west the first time, making him the eldest creature in middle earth. Well it is between him and treebear actually, he's created before the elves awake as well. But not before the eagles.
Relevant Silmarillion Passages:
"That also shall come to be by the heed of Iluvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eages of the Lords of the West"
followed by
"'Nay,' he said, 'only the tress of Aule will be tall enough. In the mounts the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon us. But in the forests shall walk the Shepherds of the Trees."
Page 41 in Harper Collins Trade papers.
and from the FOTR:
"That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless."
as to what Tom, no one, not even Tolkien explained his full and true place in middle earth.
Azkial
