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>Been there done that?
Nope, I just believe you are better off in the long run when you dont try to shank a 6' 10", 340 lb cellmate, unless its Shaq because then you only have to listen to crappy rap music.
>Maybe in your dream, but I have found that some barbarians are kind of strange .... or different. Everything I have heard of prison is that ... there is respect or wearing red kool-aid on your lips. So, I would take my beating each time they came for me so that eventually they will just go after someone else who doesnt or wont fight. And no, I havent spent any time in prison, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
So what shade of lipstick do you wear during the beatings?
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
OK... now that the thead has gone on a horrible tangent, I'm going to attempt to bring it back on its intended track.
At the end of the day, some changes have to be made. As it stands, a single barb can ruin most enchantes completely, making it totally inhospitable to bards. For the sake of game play, there has to be a conceptual shift that puts the two in some level of co-existance. For the sake of avoiding hypocrisy in suggesting that we benefit from the good and avoid the bad, and in the spirit of accepting the mingling of magic in bardic enchantes beyond the music itself, I still believe that cutting barbs out of being influenced at all might be the best way to go.
No, it's not perfect. No, it's not well organized and fitted into an overall philosophy. Yes, there are probably better ways to flesh this out in the long run. However, as a temporary bandage to what I perceive as a genuine problem beyond making interaction more interesting (it's simply unfair to bards right now), it will suffice until we can all come to some sort of agreed compromise on how BMR should work with different sorts of magics.
I think that for the time being we need to sacrifice fun for the sake of gameplay.
At the end of the day, some changes have to be made. As it stands, a single barb can ruin most enchantes completely, making it totally inhospitable to bards. For the sake of game play, there has to be a conceptual shift that puts the two in some level of co-existance. For the sake of avoiding hypocrisy in suggesting that we benefit from the good and avoid the bad, and in the spirit of accepting the mingling of magic in bardic enchantes beyond the music itself, I still believe that cutting barbs out of being influenced at all might be the best way to go.
No, it's not perfect. No, it's not well organized and fitted into an overall philosophy. Yes, there are probably better ways to flesh this out in the long run. However, as a temporary bandage to what I perceive as a genuine problem beyond making interaction more interesting (it's simply unfair to bards right now), it will suffice until we can all come to some sort of agreed compromise on how BMR should work with different sorts of magics.
I think that for the time being we need to sacrifice fun for the sake of gameplay.
>>I still believe that cutting barbs out of being influenced at all might be the best way to go.<<
>>I think that for the time being we need to sacrifice fun for the sake of gameplay.
<<
Because we all know that avoiding enchantes without a skill check is balanced gameplay.
Er, wait...
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
>>I think that for the time being we need to sacrifice fun for the sake of gameplay.
<<
Because we all know that avoiding enchantes without a skill check is balanced gameplay.
Er, wait...
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
I said temporary band aid for the sake of allowing bards to coexist in the same room as a barb until we come up with a more detailed solution. As it stands, it simply isn't fair.
That, or cut MR out of it entirely, but then I would imagine it gets more complicated because other guilds then have to conform.
That, or cut MR out of it entirely, but then I would imagine it gets more complicated because other guilds then have to conform.
>I dont think I have ever witnessed anyone yell so loud that it made me or the entire room stand around in a daze. To me it sounds way too much like ... magic.
Ahh, I see that you have never heard my sister scream. She can make a banshee seem quiet. She honestly can make everyone in the room come to a screaching halt with one of her screams. No magic involved at all just a lot of charisma.
~Sasabee
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
Ahh, I see that you have never heard my sister scream. She can make a banshee seem quiet. She honestly can make everyone in the room come to a screaching halt with one of her screams. No magic involved at all just a lot of charisma.
~Sasabee
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
>>Its not so much sound, but intimidation. For example, meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan roars and you pick up the soap. Its that easy.
hee hee if it was a bardic scream it would be like this:
Meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan screams at you. You feel a slight buzzing in your ears. Nathan then falls to the ground (15 second rt) clutching his throat. He wont be talking to you again for the rest of the day. While he is on the ground he gets the soap himself.
~Sasa
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I su
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
hee hee if it was a bardic scream it would be like this:
Meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan screams at you. You feel a slight buzzing in your ears. Nathan then falls to the ground (15 second rt) clutching his throat. He wont be talking to you again for the rest of the day. While he is on the ground he gets the soap himself.
~Sasa
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I su
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
>I really don't want to go into too many examples. I will say, however, that all non-magic-users are supposed to have the same base resistance. However, this is not currently the case -- even at their lowest point, barbarians have significently more MR than traders or thieves. Magic-using guilds, on the other hand, are supposed to have less resistance, but in fact are only more vulnerable to a few types of magic; for the most part, they have the same resistance as Traders and Thieves.
>In short, what we are talking about is actually making the magic resistance system work more like how established magic theory says it should work. The other conclusion we can draw from the above is that no matter how you look at it, the traders and thieves got the short end of the stick in a big way.
Dart,
I'll buy you a beer if you make thieves/traders have the seem MR as an 'equal stat' barb that has 0 IF, and is not dancing, berserking, etc.
I may have to send the beer to your home address as I'm not too much of a con goer.
>In short, what we are talking about is actually making the magic resistance system work more like how established magic theory says it should work. The other conclusion we can draw from the above is that no matter how you look at it, the traders and thieves got the short end of the stick in a big way.
Dart,
I'll buy you a beer if you make thieves/traders have the seem MR as an 'equal stat' barb that has 0 IF, and is not dancing, berserking, etc.
I may have to send the beer to your home address as I'm not too much of a con goer.
I'll toss in my two cents.
I don't want to see barbarians benefiting from Bardic music/magic without a fight. If it has mana involved in the process anywhere, it is my firm belief we should resist it.
While I believe barbarians should be able to destroy the magical effect for the entire room (if you sap enough mana lines going through the pattern, it doesn't matter whether the pattern is made by mage or magic) because of playability, I personally throw my support behind making checks for each individual in the room.
Also, if the enchante does manage to penetrate BMR, I think the effect should be reduced by BMR just like any other spell, but for you only.
We're barbarians, we joined this guild with the understanding we will shrug off or weaken all magic thrown at us. That is just the nature of our guild.
However, if the Bards do have or gain enchantes that are purely musical, then that is a totally different issue. As its been said before, just because its supernatural does not mean its magical.
Just about everything I've said was already said by others, so I'm going to stop now.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
I don't want to see barbarians benefiting from Bardic music/magic without a fight. If it has mana involved in the process anywhere, it is my firm belief we should resist it.
While I believe barbarians should be able to destroy the magical effect for the entire room (if you sap enough mana lines going through the pattern, it doesn't matter whether the pattern is made by mage or magic) because of playability, I personally throw my support behind making checks for each individual in the room.
Also, if the enchante does manage to penetrate BMR, I think the effect should be reduced by BMR just like any other spell, but for you only.
We're barbarians, we joined this guild with the understanding we will shrug off or weaken all magic thrown at us. That is just the nature of our guild.
However, if the Bards do have or gain enchantes that are purely musical, then that is a totally different issue. As its been said before, just because its supernatural does not mean its magical.
Just about everything I've said was already said by others, so I'm going to stop now.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Ok I'm difficult sue me, and Caraamon you should know I would argue atleast some. Ok yes we we joined this guild we knew we would shrug off and resist magic. My opinion is that while maybe we should be affected or the check should be just against us we should not be able to tank a spell just by being in the room. I think it'd just be wrong our choice shouldn't affect everyone else. Plus as a member of an extensive IG family, I have one brother who is a barbarian the rest of them all are magic user's. It's simply silly that hunting with means me that the spells they cast against creatures should affect or be affected by me standing there, and no not really in the mood to hear well then hunt alone (that gets immensly boring after awhile). Bottom line I say give everyone in the room a seperate check if possible. Atleast try and make group hunting viable. My two lirums anyway.
We are all mere shadows and dust.
~Craetos~
We are all mere shadows and dust.
~Craetos~
It's not just BMR that can stop an area affect spell. Area spells can be stopped by regular MR too, BMR is just more noticeable. It's actually a function of how spells deal with MR and not something that BMR does.
With enchantes it does seem that a change to that would be a significant step toward more playability.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
With enchantes it does seem that a change to that would be a significant step toward more playability.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
>>My opinion is that while maybe we should be affected or the check should be just against us we should not be able to tank a spell just by being in the room.
I think this is really the jist of the issue, with regards to Bards and MR.
I think that within the current theory, it doesn't make sense for one individual to be able to collapse an enchante pattern simply because they alone resisted the manipulation.
Dartenian stated that the spell pattern of an enchante is actually sustained by the song, not magic. The magic or spell is the part of the enchante that affects the listener, which I think should be resistable.
Thus, if someone where to resist the magical effects of the enchante, the enchante would not collapse, because the musical spell pattern would still be intact.
I started a discussion on my ideas in the Bard folder as it was more appropriate over there, but wanted to comment briefly on this point.
A great discussion, Barbs!
GENT
I think this is really the jist of the issue, with regards to Bards and MR.
I think that within the current theory, it doesn't make sense for one individual to be able to collapse an enchante pattern simply because they alone resisted the manipulation.
Dartenian stated that the spell pattern of an enchante is actually sustained by the song, not magic. The magic or spell is the part of the enchante that affects the listener, which I think should be resistable.
Thus, if someone where to resist the magical effects of the enchante, the enchante would not collapse, because the musical spell pattern would still be intact.
I started a discussion on my ideas in the Bard folder as it was more appropriate over there, but wanted to comment briefly on this point.
A great discussion, Barbs!
GENT
