Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
So having returned after a nearly two year hiatus (I left in Spring of 2012), I'm working on getting back up to speed. Been going through Elanthipedia and the forums, and was making the following observations.
Sad to see Siren and Chorus aren't back up.
With the limitation of only one cyclic up at a time, if I have the Circle and spell slots available to go shopping across all the spells instead of training into them, is there any reason not to just use Abandoned Heart almost all the time in most combat situations? Does anyone have a counter-argument that it's cost (five spell slots) isn't worth it over some other competitor? Would Phoenix's Pyre be the other main option, or Damaris' Lullaby?
For Pyre vs. Heart, I guess the considerations could be:
- Pulse time is faster with Pyre.
- You may be hunting with naphtha.
For Lullaby vs. Heart, I suppose the argument would be:
- With Charm vs. Willpower, you may want to use Lullaby if you have a particularly high Charisma and Discipline versus higher Intelligence and Wisdom for the damage from Heart? But still you're debuffing versus damage.
Lullaby and Heart seem different enough I could see individual arguments for one over the other. Interested in thoughts on the role of Pyre.
If I'm viewing the cyclic combat pathways as either Heart's TM damage with Intelligence and Wisdom (Discipline for accuracy) vs. Lullaby's debuff with Charisma and Discipline, the rituals look like:
Echoes: Good with Heart (Intelligence buff).
Words: Good with Heart (Wisdom buff).
Soul: Good with Lullaby (Charisma and Debilitation buff).
Will: Good with Lullaby (Discipline buff) and Heart (Discipline and TM buff).
I've read conflicting claims that will either replaces Pyre's fire damage with cold damage, or supplements it by adding cold. Which is it?
In the experience of others, which ritual are you going with?
Those are my general questions for now, thanks everyone.
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists." - Armifer
>>I've read conflicting claims that will either replaces Pyre's fire damage with cold damage, or supplements it by adding cold. Which is it?
It adds cold damage to Phoenix's Pyre and Breath of Storms. Overall damage output remains the same, though, so it's taking some of the damage away from other places to add the cold.
Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
- Arthur O'Shaughnessy
It adds cold damage to Phoenix's Pyre and Breath of Storms. Overall damage output remains the same, though, so it's taking some of the damage away from other places to add the cold.
Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
- Arthur O'Shaughnessy
> For Pyre vs. Heart, I guess the considerations could be:
- Aban won't work on undead, while Pyre hits corporeal undead.
- Pyre gives you awesome alsohere messaging: <bard> who is surrounded by an elemental maelstrom.
> For Lullaby vs. Heart, I suppose the argument would be:
- Given the shape of most bards' stats, there are probably lots of things that you can succeed in a stat check against but can't hit with your TM skill.
- There are times when you don't want to kill things. For example, when I'm training Tactics, I switch to Dalu because otherwise Aban would kill the critter I'm working on and prevent me from getting the combo-exp.
> I've read conflicting claims that will either replaces Pyre's fire damage with cold damage, or supplements it by adding cold. Which is it?
Without Will, Pyre does fire and impact damage. With Will, Pyre does fire and cold damage.
Without Will, BoS does electricity and puncture damage. With Will, BoS does cold and puncture damage.
> In the experience of others, which ritual are you going with?
I expected to only learn Word. Instead, Word is the only one I haven't learned. I use Echo during normal hunting, because I burn loads of mana, train sorcery, and enjoy the Int bonus's effect on my TM damage. I use Will during quests and special event invasions, because the TM boost helps me hit the super critters and Discipline is a good general defense stat. I use Soul during crafting, since the Charisma boost increases the payout sizes.
- Aban won't work on undead, while Pyre hits corporeal undead.
- Pyre gives you awesome alsohere messaging: <bard> who is surrounded by an elemental maelstrom.
> For Lullaby vs. Heart, I suppose the argument would be:
- Given the shape of most bards' stats, there are probably lots of things that you can succeed in a stat check against but can't hit with your TM skill.
- There are times when you don't want to kill things. For example, when I'm training Tactics, I switch to Dalu because otherwise Aban would kill the critter I'm working on and prevent me from getting the combo-exp.
> I've read conflicting claims that will either replaces Pyre's fire damage with cold damage, or supplements it by adding cold. Which is it?
Without Will, Pyre does fire and impact damage. With Will, Pyre does fire and cold damage.
Without Will, BoS does electricity and puncture damage. With Will, BoS does cold and puncture damage.
> In the experience of others, which ritual are you going with?
I expected to only learn Word. Instead, Word is the only one I haven't learned. I use Echo during normal hunting, because I burn loads of mana, train sorcery, and enjoy the Int bonus's effect on my TM damage. I use Will during quests and special event invasions, because the TM boost helps me hit the super critters and Discipline is a good general defense stat. I use Soul during crafting, since the Charisma boost increases the payout sizes.
>It adds cold damage to Phoenix's Pyre and Breath of Storms. Overall damage output remains the same, though, so it's taking some of the damage away from other places to add the cold.
Is the percentage fixed, and more importantly known? Or is it a factor of the strength of the Will I've cast?
>- Aban won't work on undead, while Pyre hits corporeal undead.
Saw that when I sat down to go through the forums, worth considering. I can see that being a problem with invasions and things outside of control, but the higher level hunting list seems like it has plenty of options to allow for avoiding undead.
>I use Echo during normal hunting, because I burn loads of mana, train sorcery, and enjoy the Int bonus's effect on my TM damage. I use Will during quests and special event invasions, because the TM boost helps me hit the super critters and Discipline is a good general defense stat.
This reflects a philosophy I'm starting to consider, one pathway for normal hunting and training, another for special occasions.
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists." - Armifer
Is the percentage fixed, and more importantly known? Or is it a factor of the strength of the Will I've cast?
>- Aban won't work on undead, while Pyre hits corporeal undead.
Saw that when I sat down to go through the forums, worth considering. I can see that being a problem with invasions and things outside of control, but the higher level hunting list seems like it has plenty of options to allow for avoiding undead.
>I use Echo during normal hunting, because I burn loads of mana, train sorcery, and enjoy the Int bonus's effect on my TM damage. I use Will during quests and special event invasions, because the TM boost helps me hit the super critters and Discipline is a good general defense stat.
This reflects a philosophy I'm starting to consider, one pathway for normal hunting and training, another for special occasions.
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists." - Armifer
> Is the percentage fixed, and more importantly known? Or is it a factor of the strength of the Will I've cast?
Nothing's been confirmed, but my hunch would be that the base version is 50% fire and 50% impact, while the modified version is 50% fire and 50% cold.
> This reflects a philosophy I'm starting to consider, one pathway for normal hunting and training, another for special occasions.
That's my thinking. I use Aban for hunting and Pyre for special occasions, because I can choose non-undead for normal hunting, but they're a very common quest/invasion critter. Also, very few things are resistant to both fire and cold, so Will + Pyre makes for a decent workhorse.
Nothing's been confirmed, but my hunch would be that the base version is 50% fire and 50% impact, while the modified version is 50% fire and 50% cold.
> This reflects a philosophy I'm starting to consider, one pathway for normal hunting and training, another for special occasions.
That's my thinking. I use Aban for hunting and Pyre for special occasions, because I can choose non-undead for normal hunting, but they're a very common quest/invasion critter. Also, very few things are resistant to both fire and cold, so Will + Pyre makes for a decent workhorse.
>because the TM boost helps me hit the super critters and Discipline is a good general defense stat.
I thought the TM boost only affected how much mana you could put in a spell, not the to hit part of the combat calcs?
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
I thought the TM boost only affected how much mana you could put in a spell, not the to hit part of the combat calcs?
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
>That's my thinking. I use Aban for hunting and Pyre for special occasions, because I can choose non-undead for normal hunting, but they're a very common quest/invasion critter. Also, very few things are resistant to both fire and cold, so Will + Pyre makes for a decent workhorse.
My weapons have always held me back during hunting. For normal hunting, in your experience is Abandoned Heart causing too much damage too fast to learn combat skills? I'm particularly concerned on this front because I depended heavily on Siren to keep a lot of creatures around, I don't want my spells killing them too fast without Siren. Making me consider Lullaby.
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists." - Armifer
My weapons have always held me back during hunting. For normal hunting, in your experience is Abandoned Heart causing too much damage too fast to learn combat skills? I'm particularly concerned on this front because I depended heavily on Siren to keep a lot of creatures around, I don't want my spells killing them too fast without Siren. Making me consider Lullaby.
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists." - Armifer
> For normal hunting, in your experience is Abandoned Heart causing too much damage too fast to learn combat skills?
Not at all. Usually the killing blow is delivered by Aban, but that doesn't affect my weapon learning because I can just turn and hit the next one. Fortunately, I seldom run out of critters. It only matters with Tactics because there's a chunk of experience you get from a completing a combo, so I don't want Aban killing a critter in the middle of one.
This is another mark in favor of Aban vs Pyre, by the way: since Aban uses spirit damage, it's on a separate track from your weapon attacks. This means that Aban + weapons will in general kill slower than Pyre + weapons. That's a bad thing in special events, but a good thing when you're trying to milk critters for training.
> I thought the TM boost only affected how much mana you could put in a spell, not the to hit part of the combat calcs?
Now you're making me wonder. I thought it affected both, and that Clerics were unusual in having the two different aspects split (Tamsine and Align), but now I realize I don't remember seeing that confirmed anywhere. It would be very disappointing if it only affected the cast-check.
Not at all. Usually the killing blow is delivered by Aban, but that doesn't affect my weapon learning because I can just turn and hit the next one. Fortunately, I seldom run out of critters. It only matters with Tactics because there's a chunk of experience you get from a completing a combo, so I don't want Aban killing a critter in the middle of one.
This is another mark in favor of Aban vs Pyre, by the way: since Aban uses spirit damage, it's on a separate track from your weapon attacks. This means that Aban + weapons will in general kill slower than Pyre + weapons. That's a bad thing in special events, but a good thing when you're trying to milk critters for training.
> I thought the TM boost only affected how much mana you could put in a spell, not the to hit part of the combat calcs?
Now you're making me wonder. I thought it affected both, and that Clerics were unusual in having the two different aspects split (Tamsine and Align), but now I realize I don't remember seeing that confirmed anywhere. It would be very disappointing if it only affected the cast-check.
>>I thought the TM boost only affected how much mana you could put in a spell, not the to hit part of the combat calcs?
TM skill affects both accuracy and spell cap.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_and_Ranged_Adjustments_-_01/04/2014_-_22:15
(The linked post is about something different, but there's a little blurb about TM accuracy at the very end stating uses the same base calcs for accuracy as a weapon does. I.e. skill is included in those calcs.)
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
TM skill affects both accuracy and spell cap.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_and_Ranged_Adjustments_-_01/04/2014_-_22:15
(The linked post is about something different, but there's a little blurb about TM accuracy at the very end stating uses the same base calcs for accuracy as a weapon does. I.e. skill is included in those calcs.)
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
I forgot to add that when 3.0 magic skills were originally announced they also stated that TM will be gaining the addition of determining spell caps. Took me a bit longer to find the post.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Magic_3.0_Overview_-_7/13/2010_-_19:45:27
<<"Targeted Magic" will continue to do what it does, but also take its place as one of the specialty magic skills (below).
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Magic_3.0_Overview_-_7/13/2010_-_19:45:27
<<"Targeted Magic" will continue to do what it does, but also take its place as one of the specialty magic skills (below).
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
> TM skill affects both accuracy and spell cap.
That wasn't the question, though. It's about what effect the boost has. For example, Tamsine's commune is a TM boost, but only to the accuracy calculation. And aligning with Meraud provides a TM boost, but only to the spell casting calculation.
That wasn't the question, though. It's about what effect the boost has. For example, Tamsine's commune is a TM boost, but only to the accuracy calculation. And aligning with Meraud provides a TM boost, but only to the spell casting calculation.
It's a straight -up no-strings-attached viewable-in-EXP-MODS skill boost. At least that's what I was getting when I was casting it on my Moon Mage.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Erm... Echoes of Aether I mean. Which is Sorcery skill. I'm having a brain fart. I assume Will of Winter is the same, however.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
