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This has probably been covered somewhere.. but wondering if there are still plans to move the carving of devotion beads OFF of the "obsolete" mech skill?
Pretty frustrating as a ~120th cleric who could carve dark beads from crystal without a primer to suddenly be back to carving neutral beads from plain wood (and using a primer to do it) just because I wanted to continue being able to make swords in the new system :)
Is it possible to base it on theurgy (even if it doesn't teach it, which would be understandable) OR on highest "craft" lore? I've worked mech back up from 0 to about 60, but to get it back to where it was just isn't something I'm interested in doing just for beads, especially when I may well move those 60+ ranks into another craft (read: enchanting when it's released) at some point.
Segmere Freat
>wondering if there are still plans to move the carving of devotion beads OFF of the "obsolete" mech skill?
Most likely it will be converted to use Engineering.
>Is it possible to base it on theurgy (even if it doesn't teach it, which would be understandable)
That's the same sort of logic trap as using a weapon skill to forge weapons.
>OR on highest "craft" lore?
Nothing else works that way, can you give an argument for why this should be the exception?
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Most likely it will be converted to use Engineering.
>Is it possible to base it on theurgy (even if it doesn't teach it, which would be understandable)
That's the same sort of logic trap as using a weapon skill to forge weapons.
>OR on highest "craft" lore?
Nothing else works that way, can you give an argument for why this should be the exception?
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>Most likely it will be converted to use Engineering.
OK -- so force us to train engineering in addition to our chosen career/hobby path(s) for something we need to be able to do?
>Nothing else works that way, can you give an argument for why this should be the exception?
Only the argument that I've already given -- that it's currently based on an obsolete skill, even though it's something a cleric has to be able to do for devotional purposes. Also, there are certain things that have been rolled into other checks... this is like escaping going away but still requiring escaping to flee guards when you're on the wanted list, or escape webs in combat.
Where, exactly, would carving beads have fallen if mech wasn't still "active"? I don't think Engineering is the answer -- this is a guild ability, not a trade skill -- no one else will be carving devotional beads from a trade-skill book.
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
OK -- so force us to train engineering in addition to our chosen career/hobby path(s) for something we need to be able to do?
>Nothing else works that way, can you give an argument for why this should be the exception?
Only the argument that I've already given -- that it's currently based on an obsolete skill, even though it's something a cleric has to be able to do for devotional purposes. Also, there are certain things that have been rolled into other checks... this is like escaping going away but still requiring escaping to flee guards when you're on the wanted list, or escape webs in combat.
Where, exactly, would carving beads have fallen if mech wasn't still "active"? I don't think Engineering is the answer -- this is a guild ability, not a trade skill -- no one else will be carving devotional beads from a trade-skill book.
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
> OK -- so force us to train engineering in addition to our chosen career/hobby path(s) for something we need to be able to do?
I was concerned about this before and was assured that the intention is to develop devotion-boosting items in all crafts, not just engineering. So you can pick the crafts that best suit your own character, or work on all and get extra returns. It makes perfect sense to use lores, considering we're lore secondary.
And you don't HAVE to do it. It's just very handy and helpful. I'm certainly going to continue making beads, but it's not a requirement for living.
I was concerned about this before and was assured that the intention is to develop devotion-boosting items in all crafts, not just engineering. So you can pick the crafts that best suit your own character, or work on all and get extra returns. It makes perfect sense to use lores, considering we're lore secondary.
And you don't HAVE to do it. It's just very handy and helpful. I'm certainly going to continue making beads, but it's not a requirement for living.
I actually do remember reading something about devotion boosters in all crafts (I only came back about a week ago after a year or so's hiatus); that said, to play devil's advocate... are these other items going to be compatible with a prayer bead chain, will we still have acolytes running around selling prepared materials to make life easier?
Once upon a time (not all that long ago), I could buy up 10-15 crystal blocks from a vendor running around the street, carve for later use (maybe 1 minute to carve each bead, and actually moving mech lore), and easily restore tanked devotion when it came time to do so. I just worry about lost functionality on this -- if in the future I have to spend 5-6 minutes to forge each <devotional item> that I'm not learning anything from but still need to do if I want to effectively train a guild skill... well, it's just kind of frustrating.
And, as far as I'm concerned, they sort of are a requirement -- they're one of our biggest devotion boosters, and to train theurgy one has to be able to get good return in short ritual spurts or spend half the day running to altars/temples just to recover from one or two higher level communes.
Segmere Freat
Once upon a time (not all that long ago), I could buy up 10-15 crystal blocks from a vendor running around the street, carve for later use (maybe 1 minute to carve each bead, and actually moving mech lore), and easily restore tanked devotion when it came time to do so. I just worry about lost functionality on this -- if in the future I have to spend 5-6 minutes to forge each <devotional item> that I'm not learning anything from but still need to do if I want to effectively train a guild skill... well, it's just kind of frustrating.
And, as far as I'm concerned, they sort of are a requirement -- they're one of our biggest devotion boosters, and to train theurgy one has to be able to get good return in short ritual spurts or spend half the day running to altars/temples just to recover from one or two higher level communes.
Segmere Freat
>I don't think Engineering is the answer -- this is a guild ability, not a trade skill -- no one else will be carving devotional beads from a trade-skill book
It is. Except for crystal/jade/saffron topaz blocks they're all woods that you SHAPE with a wood shaper (which now that I look it up out of curiosity I don't understand how it can be what it says it is), and Engineering (Shaping) is the woods.
I'm still holding out for bead-analogue devotional items being crafted from other craft skills, personally.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
It is. Except for crystal/jade/saffron topaz blocks they're all woods that you SHAPE with a wood shaper (which now that I look it up out of curiosity I don't understand how it can be what it says it is), and Engineering (Shaping) is the woods.
I'm still holding out for bead-analogue devotional items being crafted from other craft skills, personally.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>Only the argument that I've already given -- that it's currently based on an obsolete skill, even though it's something a cleric has to be able to do for devotional purposes.
Thieves can't manufacture Confidence boosters.
Barbarians can't manufacture voice pool or Inner Fire boosters.
Warrior mages can't manufacture summoning power boosters.
Rangers can't manufacture wilderness boosters.
Paladins can't manufacture soul boosters.
Etc.
You're the only guild with a crafting based boost to their confound and you're unhappy that you might have to go out of your way to get it?
You may enjoy the benefits of doing it, but "have to" is an exaggeration.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Thieves can't manufacture Confidence boosters.
Barbarians can't manufacture voice pool or Inner Fire boosters.
Warrior mages can't manufacture summoning power boosters.
Rangers can't manufacture wilderness boosters.
Paladins can't manufacture soul boosters.
Etc.
You're the only guild with a crafting based boost to their confound and you're unhappy that you might have to go out of your way to get it?
You may enjoy the benefits of doing it, but "have to" is an exaggeration.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
My unhappiness is not present, nor relevant on this issue. I'm simply trying to figure out if we're ever to expect the same functionality we had before the mech split -- time-wise and reward-wise, this was a system that worked before, and doesn't work now. And you should know full-well that I'm not a complainer.
As to your comparison to other guilds... so what?
Thieves stay in town, they regain Confidence
Barbs stay in combat, they regain Inner Fire
Paladins don't lose soul unless they do something stupid (stealing, first strike, etc)
Rangers stay out of town, they keep their wilderness bonus
Won't weigh in on Warmies bc I know nothing about Summoning
It's not about "boosting" our devotion, it's about maintaining it -- we're also the only guild that has to do specific rituals in specific places to keep our functionality from tanking. It's a matter of course in our daily lives that our devotion falls -- that is, if we want to advance in the guild.
By the way, I don't mind training trade skills at all (going out of my way, as you put it -- I too forged/fletched/tanned in the old system):
Forging: 371 17%
Engineering: 78 84%
Outfitting: 74 58%
Alchemy: 47 41%
...again, I'd just like the functionality that existed prior to the split to be there again.
Segmere Freat
As to your comparison to other guilds... so what?
Thieves stay in town, they regain Confidence
Barbs stay in combat, they regain Inner Fire
Paladins don't lose soul unless they do something stupid (stealing, first strike, etc)
Rangers stay out of town, they keep their wilderness bonus
Won't weigh in on Warmies bc I know nothing about Summoning
It's not about "boosting" our devotion, it's about maintaining it -- we're also the only guild that has to do specific rituals in specific places to keep our functionality from tanking. It's a matter of course in our daily lives that our devotion falls -- that is, if we want to advance in the guild.
By the way, I don't mind training trade skills at all (going out of my way, as you put it -- I too forged/fletched/tanned in the old system):
Forging: 371 17%
Engineering: 78 84%
Outfitting: 74 58%
Alchemy: 47 41%
...again, I'd just like the functionality that existed prior to the split to be there again.
Segmere Freat
>Thieves stay in town, they regain Confidence
This isn't really true, we might regain to neautral or better if we have really high Charisma. But we need to backstab a LOT to push Confidence up. Not a truely difficult thing to do, but if you train lots of things, don't run really efficient scripts, are a crafting MACHINE, well I can see your Confidence staying at Neutral.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
This isn't really true, we might regain to neautral or better if we have really high Charisma. But we need to backstab a LOT to push Confidence up. Not a truely difficult thing to do, but if you train lots of things, don't run really efficient scripts, are a crafting MACHINE, well I can see your Confidence staying at Neutral.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Actually, Clerics have the most material and location intensive guild skill. As it is, Prayer Mats are kind of ridiculously only available to fest goers, at a one per account basis. Telescopes or Instruments are the only items that I can think of that approach something of that requirement, being items that are virtually if not totally required to train the guild skill. Though neither are available that rarely.
That said, Theurgy is incredibly easy to move, Devotion is extremely easy to keep filled (especially if you hunt undead!), and Clerics actually have useful perks that stem from Theurgy. I agree it's a bit annoying to suddenly not be able to carve like you once were, but, A ) you don't need to do prayer beads, and B ) you can easily train up a hundred ranks of mech or so to get back to using basic beads.
Welcome back though Segmere!
