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As someone whose cleric is approaching 90th circle, I cringe a little, because I think Flavius was almost to the point where Teaching would slow him down anyway. Any idea how many ranks of Teaching this will require as of 90th?
I understand why the tweak is happening- and we have already been told before that our basic Teaching requirement is going to stay so with that I would like to request some improvements for Clerical Teaching. I really don't want them so much as I want a way to make Teaching more practical, easier to learn and more fun.
I have said it before but Preaching should be changed. It shouldn't conflict with Teaching and should teach Teaching very well. I probably have used Preach once in the last 12 months because it just conflicts with Teaching and doesn't give much back.
Or another suggestion I have made was a cleric only teaching option for Preach- it would teach Teaching and Scholarship at a higher rate, with a small amount of vocals, but otherwise would work like Teaching.
Or increase the learning rates to both Student and Teacher for each Vigil link.
Increase the Teaching experience for each Pray.
Have reciting Prayer scrolls teach teaching.
Heck let clerics appraise altars work like appraising the art in Crossing- except have it teach Teaching and Scholarship instead.
I can certainly manage to learn Teaching with Flavius, but it doesn't seem natural, and there is a reason that Teaching lags far behind Scholarship and Appraisal- Flavius has more First Aid than teaching. Other ways to learn Teaching, especially ones that don't rely on quantities of skilled listeners would really help.
I'd like a lower teaching requirement with a higher pick your own primary lore requirement. For a long time my schol was ahead of my teaching. Now my mech is poised to surpass my teaching and scholarship.
To me, having one of the highest, if not the highest teaching requirements of all guilds is silly when the guild is lore secondary.
But that's just my two cents.
To me, having one of the highest, if not the highest teaching requirements of all guilds is silly when the guild is lore secondary.
But that's just my two cents.
>>I'm well past the teaching reqs for 150 now so this change won't bother me much but why not lower both the 70-100 and 100-150 teaching reqs? IMO Clerics teaching reqs are ridiculously high, 10 ranks isn't going to change it much. >>
This was my initial thought as well. I still don't understand why we have such a high teaching requirement. Personally I'd rather have a new lore skill to train much like mm's did with astrology, and then have the teaching requirement lowered severely in lieu of the new skills requirements.
Either way, I don't really care. This is just more incentive for me not to circle, as teaching is probably my least favorite skill.
I'm very curious what the difference is between cleric's scholarship/teaching ranks. Maybe if enough of us can show the GM's how much easier scholarship is to train than teaching, they'll either:
1. Allow teaching to be trained through a compendium-like source.
2. Notice how absurd our teaching requirements actually are and swap them with scholarship.
3. Notice how many of us have higher scholarship than teaching, and change the reqs.
I'll start:
321 scholarship :: 211 teaching.
This was my initial thought as well. I still don't understand why we have such a high teaching requirement. Personally I'd rather have a new lore skill to train much like mm's did with astrology, and then have the teaching requirement lowered severely in lieu of the new skills requirements.
Either way, I don't really care. This is just more incentive for me not to circle, as teaching is probably my least favorite skill.
I'm very curious what the difference is between cleric's scholarship/teaching ranks. Maybe if enough of us can show the GM's how much easier scholarship is to train than teaching, they'll either:
1. Allow teaching to be trained through a compendium-like source.
2. Notice how absurd our teaching requirements actually are and swap them with scholarship.
3. Notice how many of us have higher scholarship than teaching, and change the reqs.
I'll start:
321 scholarship :: 211 teaching.
>I'd like a lower teaching requirement with a higher pick your own primary lore requirement.
>why not lower both the 70-100 and 100-150 teaching reqs? IMO Clerics teaching reqs are ridiculously high
Agreed.
I think the real question is, why does the Bard guild have the teaching perk when it has zero teaching reqs?
For those that don't know, Bards can teach any skill in combat. I mean, even Warrior Mages can teach TM in combat, and what's their req?
>why not lower both the 70-100 and 100-150 teaching reqs? IMO Clerics teaching reqs are ridiculously high
Agreed.
I think the real question is, why does the Bard guild have the teaching perk when it has zero teaching reqs?
For those that don't know, Bards can teach any skill in combat. I mean, even Warrior Mages can teach TM in combat, and what's their req?
Not everyone has more scholarship than teaching. Swapping from teaching to scholarship as a requirement is not really an option. It's only recently (and when I say recently I mean in the past 5-6 years) that scholarship was even remotely trainable. Those of us who did most of our teaching before that time would really suffer from such a change. Though admittedly, maybe I'm the only one :P
The best option is to make teaching more trainable, not to change the requirements. 520 for 150th is high for a secondary skill, but it's honestly not as absurd as people are making it out to be. I mean our weapon requirement is 620, as is the weapon requirement in pretty much every weapon secondary guild. Every other weapon secondary guild is required to learn at least 2 weapons, except us. Our teaching requirement is high because we only need 1 weapon.
Options which allow you to train teaching without relying on the quality of student would be a huge start.
The best option is to make teaching more trainable, not to change the requirements. 520 for 150th is high for a secondary skill, but it's honestly not as absurd as people are making it out to be. I mean our weapon requirement is 620, as is the weapon requirement in pretty much every weapon secondary guild. Every other weapon secondary guild is required to learn at least 2 weapons, except us. Our teaching requirement is high because we only need 1 weapon.
Options which allow you to train teaching without relying on the quality of student would be a huge start.
Seg has 396 scholarship and 303 teaching
Basically, this leads me to make the push for 100th BEFORE this tweak happens. 320 is significantly higher than 305 for Seg, considering how rarely he trains it.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
Basically, this leads me to make the push for 100th BEFORE this tweak happens. 320 is significantly higher than 305 for Seg, considering how rarely he trains it.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
I don't foresee a real change happening to the Teaching requirement (as opposed to just eliminating fractional reqs as cleanly as possible like we are doing now) unless Theosophy comes to life along with its own requirement.
As for the suggestions related to Teaching itself, consider them noted. I too would like to do something more substantial with Preach.
GM Grejuva
As for the suggestions related to Teaching itself, consider them noted. I too would like to do something more substantial with Preach.
GM Grejuva
Certainly I get your point Smegul, and I would imagine post 400 or so in Scholarship that Teaching in most ways becomes easier to learn than Scholarship.
I certainly am not advocating a switch to Scholarship though that would personally benefit me. I also recognize that skill requirements are as much a method of slowing down advancement as they are as some symbol of accomplishment. What has always been irritating to me is how opposite the two skills are that hold most clerics back from circling- primary weapon and teaching. It is rare that both can be learned effectively at the same time. Compare that to War Mages that can learn their primary circling skills all in combat, or Moon Mages who can learn them all out of combat.
So yes I think it would be reasonable for Teaching requirements to be lowered, but I recognize that isn't likely to happen. Instead I think there should be more 'clericky' ways of learning teaching, which would follow the trend of making more skills more readily trainable.
I certainly am not advocating a switch to Scholarship though that would personally benefit me. I also recognize that skill requirements are as much a method of slowing down advancement as they are as some symbol of accomplishment. What has always been irritating to me is how opposite the two skills are that hold most clerics back from circling- primary weapon and teaching. It is rare that both can be learned effectively at the same time. Compare that to War Mages that can learn their primary circling skills all in combat, or Moon Mages who can learn them all out of combat.
So yes I think it would be reasonable for Teaching requirements to be lowered, but I recognize that isn't likely to happen. Instead I think there should be more 'clericky' ways of learning teaching, which would follow the trend of making more skills more readily trainable.
Grejuva
One of my favorite items I would like to point out- the slab. I don't know if every cleric has even experienced it but I love the slab. But I think it both needs to be updated and perhaps expanded upon. I think the RT should go down, at a minimum or the experience increased.
And then I would like to see slabs or slab like devices in some other locations. I think Temple of Darkness would be a nice place for one.
One of my favorite items I would like to point out- the slab. I don't know if every cleric has even experienced it but I love the slab. But I think it both needs to be updated and perhaps expanded upon. I think the RT should go down, at a minimum or the experience increased.
And then I would like to see slabs or slab like devices in some other locations. I think Temple of Darkness would be a nice place for one.
>>I think the real question is, why does the Bard guild have the teaching perk when it has zero teaching reqs?
I mean I guess I can see it because they're lore prime, but I don't know why non-WM magic primes can't teach TM as well. Keep most of the current combat teaching options (adding in TM and Perception), but expand it like so:
Lore Prime: Can teach primary-tertiary noncombat skills in combat
Lore Secondary: Can teach primary-secondary noncombat skills in combat
Lore Tertiary: Can teach primary noncombat skills in combat
At the very least those guilds with hard teaching reqs should have their in-combat teaching options expanded.
~Thilan
I mean I guess I can see it because they're lore prime, but I don't know why non-WM magic primes can't teach TM as well. Keep most of the current combat teaching options (adding in TM and Perception), but expand it like so:
Lore Prime: Can teach primary-tertiary noncombat skills in combat
Lore Secondary: Can teach primary-secondary noncombat skills in combat
Lore Tertiary: Can teach primary noncombat skills in combat
At the very least those guilds with hard teaching reqs should have their in-combat teaching options expanded.
~Thilan
Teaching doesn't matter much to Ryeka since she was pretty much a teacher's pet as a baby cleric- Much to the chagrin of a few of the older clerics who had trained teaching only to level! ;)
But I have a couple of clerics that I'm training up as warriors rather than scholars. This change will be a little hard on them- but no worries. Adapt and overcome!
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
But I have a couple of clerics that I'm training up as warriors rather than scholars. This change will be a little hard on them- but no worries. Adapt and overcome!
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
<<Instead I think there should be more 'clericky' ways of learning teaching, which would follow the trend of making more skills more readily trainable.>>
I just want to pop in and point out that the issues with learning Teaching extend beyond the Cleric guild, so they should probably be addressed more globally. While Cleric-specific methods are certainly encouraged, everyone needs ways to gain experience at a decent rate and independently of other characters. Like textbook writing.
Since technical reasons were cited as the motivation for the adjustment, should other guilds with similar fractional requirements expect to see similar adjustments, or is this specifically a Clerical technicality?
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
I just want to pop in and point out that the issues with learning Teaching extend beyond the Cleric guild, so they should probably be addressed more globally. While Cleric-specific methods are certainly encouraged, everyone needs ways to gain experience at a decent rate and independently of other characters. Like textbook writing.
Since technical reasons were cited as the motivation for the adjustment, should other guilds with similar fractional requirements expect to see similar adjustments, or is this specifically a Clerical technicality?
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
>but I don't know why non-WM magic primes can't teach TM as well.
It's both from the era before anyone thought of skillset perks (which I almost miss, some skillset perks get very "meta"), and the era when warmages were the orphans of DR design and consequently got thrown a lot of bones.
WMs really don't need this particular bone anymore.
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
It's both from the era before anyone thought of skillset perks (which I almost miss, some skillset perks get very "meta"), and the era when warmages were the orphans of DR design and consequently got thrown a lot of bones.
WMs really don't need this particular bone anymore.
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
>>It's both from the era before anyone thought of skillset perks (which I almost miss, some skillset perks get very "meta"), and the era when warmages were the orphans of DR design and consequently got thrown a lot of bones.
Except teaching was completely rewritten yet this stayed the same.
Except teaching was completely rewritten yet this stayed the same.
>No need to rush those out Grejuva. July would be fine.
Seconded.. though at this point I should really stop being a lazy dwarf and bang out the last 6 or 8 ranks of ME I need for 100th
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
Seconded.. though at this point I should really stop being a lazy dwarf and bang out the last 6 or 8 ranks of ME I need for 100th
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
