Yeah, but I only have a 14th level undead rogue, so you got me there.


~Purehand

<As far as Manipulating and Shift is concerned, you just flat out can't do either, or even learn how, with Charisma below 15>

o have an idea, j'lo can train a new empath character and never ever increase charisma and post the results. circle 30 character with 9 charisma anybody?


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

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---

When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

You could have just said 'I didn't do the test'.


~Purehand

<Teaching - A student with high charisma is awesome. A teacher with high charisma is awesome. That's all fine and well, but what is the benefit to the Teacher? People say it makes it much easier to learn, and they can get mindlocked in the actual skill their teaching off of one student. For me, it depends 100% on the students I'm teaching, not my charisma. I still have problems getting to high mindstates and the skill i'm teaching has never gone past thoughtful. In my opinion, if you training charisma for teaching, then know you are training it for the benefit of others. For me, I call that a low personal return.>

ahhh but the return is being known as a great teacher and then the folks with higher charisma will want to join your class allowing you to learn more. the same goes with being a student, sophie loves it when i'm the sole student, she just about locks her teaching that way. more students get added on and the effect goes down leading me to believe that it's group charisma average type of thing. when i'm there, she always offers me teaching and is glad that i'm a student. she has more char than i have and i'm at 50. we're both happy to be teacher/student of each other.


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

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When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

<However, adding renown to the list of charisma's effects seems like a stretch to me and is clearly outclassed by other mechanisms that cost 0 tdps.>

i don't remember saying anything about renown. it seems to me the first i heard is from the posting i'm responding to, i.e. yours.

speaking of which, all you english majors in college, what the blazes does "i.e." mean precisely?


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

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When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

>>what the blazes does "i.e." mean precisely?

It is short for id est, meaning that is.

Shaunn

Well based on the early anecdotal reports here it sounds like I could be wrong about the where the low charisma barrier is on manipulating and being taught to manipulate. I recall not being able to teach manipulate to a few students who barely qualified on the Empathy ranks and circle reqs, but had very low charisma. It could very well be that low charisma is offset by above-req Empathy.

Good points all around, but I'll stand by my position that 20 is the absolute bare minimum target for training any stat, and 30 is better. Above 30 you can pick and choose where you want your strengths and weaknesses.

http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Lemme check, but I may have inadvertantly done this already with the plat version of Symphaena. She's only 2nd circle, though, and I don't recall what her charisma is at. Unless someone wants make it a point to meet up to keep my empathy locked until I can get Perc Health up to a sufficient level that I don't need to rely on other empaths or the unending swarm of transferrance patients, though, I wouldn't expect to have any results for at least another 5 years.

J'Lo, I'm a ranger.. I'd believe anything.....
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html

Been thinking a little bit about the req's for teaching and learning manipulate.... it's entirely plausible that the parameters are multi-variable both on the part of the student and of the teacher. A super-able teacher with high charisma might be able to teach manipulate to a student with bare qualifications and very low charisma, that another teacher with low charisma cannot.

This would be pretty straightforward to test since you can initiate the teaching procedure without completing it.

http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page

<That said, I get a lot of return students because I have high teaching and Charisma for my level.>

precisely what i mean. you get a group gathered eventually that know you and eventually you start RPing together. what started it all? your charisma.


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

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When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

>This is actually where I've met the vast majority of my in game friends. Of course, I think they can all teach me just about everything except teaching, now.

Do you really think any of that would have been different if you had interacted the same way but not trained charisma?

>what started it all? your charisma.

If anyone is swayed by this argument, by all means go out and rock charisma. I just talked to someone who went to a 'Con where they had a discussion about charisma and nothing they gathered from that conversation would make me back off of my stance to train it conservatively. I agree with the general stat benchmarks Farman laid out.

~Purehand

> leave charisma on 9 and you wouldn't have the interaction that causes friends.

...huh?

Sorry, no matter what stats Raud has, the player behind the character is what makes the "personality" of the character and their friends.

If you said skills depended on hunting areas and the levels of those people you come into contact with, I'd agree. As in, I would never role play Raud the way I do if she were not combat oriented - one reason being, if a ship rat could kill her, I'd have died so many times from the conflicts I do not avoid. But to say that my character's 9 pts of charisma would affect my ability to carry on a conversation in game and act in a particular way....that's a bit off.

---

Renegade Empath Raudhan just arrived.

A cutthroat gasps, "I can't get UP!"

You begin to lecture Reexa on the proper use of the brawling skill.
You cackle!
You strike a heroic pose.

<Sorry, no matter what stats Raud has, the player behind the character is what makes the "personality" of the character and their friends.>

ok, i'll put this in a manner you can understand.

think of THE most important thing in your life (as a player) and imagine if the outcome was different or the thing just never happened. would you be the same now? a player sees the stats at least once per login session so the player is about constantly reminded of his/her stats and they will most likely play according to those.

a barbarian with 14 strength and stamina isn't going to have the "go at it" attitude that the same character would with 40+ in those stats.

an empath with 9 charisma won't be played the same as an empath with 50+ charisma. the personality of the player makes up a large part but the stats of the character also make up a large part of the player personality WHILE THEY ARE PLAYING.

if you play your thief with the precisely same personality as your trader and moon mage, you'll be role playing completely wrong (IMNSHO).


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

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---

When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

>>an empath with 9 charisma won't be played the same as an empath with 50+ charisma. the personality of the player makes up a large part but the stats of the character also make up a large part of the player personality WHILE THEY ARE PLAYING.<<

That is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life, next to Wahbulence. I can make a character right now with 9 Charisma, go into the market, and have a highly social and lovely conversation with someone. Just recently I was in Plat (See Plat Dissapointment Thread in Main folder for that) and I RPed a Barbarian who was a friendly but lost girl looking to find her way back home. I have 6 charisma at the time and started to have a really good RP conversation with some other people, which included ale, jokes and a fun time.

And if we need test results, here is my proof it can be done:

Name: Novice Elexiana Race: Human Guild: Barbarian
Gender: Female Age: 31 Circle: 1
You were born on the 34th day of the 3rd month of Lirisa the Archer in the year of the Crystal Snow Hare, 356 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Your birthday is over 6 months away.

Strength : 10 Reflex : 10
Agility : 10 >>Charisma : 9
Discipline : 10 Wisdom : 15
Intelligence : 15 Stamina : 12
Favors: 0
Concentration: 2 Max: 2
TDPs: 9
Encumbrance: None

>>Test one: In the shipyard!

You say, "Heya."
>
You grin at Tarlaris.
>
Tarlaris says, "hi"
>
A small frost-bladed scythe slowly melts.
>
You ask, "Hows the hunting today?"
>
You smile at Tarlaris.
>
Tarlaris says, "not to good".
>
You say, "I can't seem to find any rats either."
>
You chuckle at Tarlaris.
>
Tarlaris frowns.
>
A ship's rat scurries about chittering and hissing frantically.
>"Ya, maybe if we put out some cheese!
You exclaim, "Ya, maybe if we put out some cheese!"
>
You exclaim, "We'll find some rats!"
>
Tarlaris peers quizzically at you.
>
You ask, "Good idea huh?"
>
You say, "I'm just joking around with ya."
>
Tarlaris shrugs.
>
You tickle Tarlaris, making him laugh.
>
You say, "ya have a good one"
>
A ship's rat searches the area.
>
You wave to Tarlaris.

>>Test 2: In the Empath Guild!

>
You say, "Ello Pretty lady."
>
Mystylaine waves to you.
>health
Your body feels at full strength.
Your spirit feels full of life.
You have some minor abrasions to the left leg, some minor abrasions to the chest.
You have no significant injuries.

>
You ask, "How are you doing today?"
>
You grin at Mystylaine.
>
Mystylaine asks, "Im good.....how are you?"
>
Mystylaine peers quizzically at you.
>
You say, "I'm doing well, I got a little beat up by some rats though."
>
You ask, "Can you check and make sure I'm going to be okay?"
>
You say, "I just want to be sure, I'm still young and I don't want to die or nuttin."
>
You grin at Mystylaine.
>
You duck your head.
>
Mystylaine grins at you.
>
>
You say, "Ya know how it is, your small at first and the rats beat on ya."
>
Gahalad exclaims, "Dying is fun though!"
>
Your chest bruises feel fully healed.
>
Nenouls closes his eyes for a moment and grows still.
>
Mystylaine grins impishly at you.
>
Mystylaine nods at you, obviously agreeing with your views.
>
You exclaim, "I dunno about that!"
>
You blink at Gahalad.
>
You ask, "How is it fun?"
>
You scratch your head.
>
You exclaim, "it's dyin'!"
>
You ask, "So am I gonna be okay?"
>
You say, "I don't look bruised anymore."
Mystylaine says to you, "you are all healed sweetheart.....and if ya ever want company playin with rats or whatever...let me know"
>
Mystylaine places her hand over Gahalad's mouth.
>
You say to Mystylaine, "Okay Pretty lady, thank ya very much, I don't have any monies as of yet, but when I do, you'll get somethin'"
>
Mystylaine gives Gahalad a good pinch!
>
You hug Mystylaine who wraps her arms around you with a warm smile. A faint scent of cinnamon clings to her skin.
>
Nenouls puts his orb in his green pack.
>
Mystylaine hugs you.
>
Nenouls gets a cambrinth orb from inside his green pack.
>
Mystylaine says, "good nugg"
>
Mystylaine says, "nuff"
>
Mystylaine coughs.
>
Nenouls holds a cambrinth orb in both hands and closes his eyes in concentration.
>
Mystylaine flashes a quick grin at you.
>
You exclaim, "alright back to my adventures, take care!"
>
You wave

>>Test 3 In my Barb Guild!<3

You ask, "Ello Fellow guildies, Can I ask a quick question of some of ya?"
>
Ishtapo says, "Keeps sayin he don't have the time for idle chatter and nonesense......"
>
You say, "Iffin' you have the time."
>
Galhamead says, "yah"
>
Galhamead nods to you.
>
Praamkest nods to you.
>
You say, "Kay, I'm a young recuit to the Barbarian ranks, what would be a good weapon to use and a good ale to drink."
>
You break out in a silly grin.
>
Galhamead says, "blood grog"
>
Praamkest grins.
>
Galhamead says, "an weapon"
>
Praamkest gets a bottle of Cnyr's mild from inside his backpack.
>
Galhamead nods.
>
Praamkest says, "This stuff's pretty good"
>
Praamkest grins.
>
Galhamead says, "alluh em is gud"
>
You say, "Okay..soo Blood grog..Cynr mild...anything to get drunk...Mmmkay.."
>
Galhamead says, "use uh ranged tho, else mages wull eat yuh"
>
Praamkest says, "Though Cnyr makes some even better stuff, if you can afford it"
>
You ask, "Weapon?"
>
You say, "Oh you were talking about weapons with that"
>
You grin at Galhamead.
>
Galhamead says, "yah sorruh"
>
You say, "I thought you ment booze."
>
Galhamead says, "muh talkin not gud"
>
Galhamead says, "ahma dummeh"
>
You say, "it's s'okay I have an accent too."
>
You say, "Okay well thank ya very much for the help."
>
You say, "It is appreciated."
>
Galhamead says, "two handed edge is muh best weapon"
>
Galhamead says, "course ah know em all"
>
You ask, "It's big..and heavy right?"
>
Praamkest says, "My grandfather always said, the best weapons are the ones you can swing, and make things dead"
>
Praamkest grins.
>
>
You say, "Then I'm there."
>
You say, "Ooo I like that sayin' better"
>
Galhamead nods.
>
You exclaim, "Well take care, and thank ya kindly!"
>

So, as you can see, with only 9 Charisma, I not only did some fairly good RP, but I owe Myst money (sorry!) I had some fun times, and no one knew I had but 9 Charisma! It isn't your stats that dictate your RP, it is you. Ask the people in Plat about that sometime. I'm sure not all of them are walking around with 50+ charisma but they sure can RP.


~Villya

---

Empath Menus of Elanthia:

Termian says, "I'm too wirey"
>
Termian says, "wouldn't make a good meal"
>
You ponder.
>
Farman says, "gnome legs in bechamel sauce"
>
Farman licks his lips.
>

<Name: Novice Elexiana Race: Human Guild: Barbarian
Gender: Female Age: 31 Circle: 1
You were born on the 34th day of the 3rd month of Lirisa the Archer in the year of the Crystal Snow Hare, 356 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Your birthday is over 6 months away.

Strength : 10 Reflex : 10
Agility : 10 >>Charisma : 9
Discipline : 10 Wisdom : 15
Intelligence : 15 Stamina : 12>

wrong guild, i was talking about empath charisma of 9 but if you REALLY want to put it to the test of what i was saying, keep that barb's strength at 10 and stamina at 12 and try playing her like that until that character gets to the usual reckless stage and see if you play your character recklessly. i'm not talking about deliberately playing recklessly, i'm talking about playing the character as if it's your main character and don't want it dead. you can play it any way you want just to show me you'd do such a thing but of course, it's not your prime character so it didn't matter at all.


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

---

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P.S. no good deed goes un-punished!

---

When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

>>you can play it any way you want just to show me you'd do such a thing but of course, it's not your prime character so it didn't matter at all.<<

No, your whole problem with the test is that A. you think you are the master of all scientific tests in DR, and therefore B. Since you didn't do the test, you will just degrade it, however I want to know one thing...

>>i was talking about empath charisma of 9<<

Why is anyone else's charisma different at 9, as far as I know from GM's Charisma is Charisma no matter what guild your in, unless you've all of a sudden become a GM and you plan on rewriting the stat system so that Empaths get a bonus to RP for Charisma. As far as I can tell, I could have RPed with any guild behind my name and gotten the same result. You are the laughing stock of TF, Prime, and Plat, for yet again coming up with another not-even-possible theory that Purehand can later post in a thread all about people hating you.

Really, why do you do it to yourself?



~Villya

---

Empath Menus of Elanthia:

Termian says, "I'm too wirey"
>
Termian says, "wouldn't make a good meal"
>
You ponder.
>
Farman says, "gnome legs in bechamel sauce"
>
Farman licks his lips.
>

>And I mean that honestly, if you want to really explain it to me, my AIM is VillyaDR because you seem like an intelligent person Wheller I just don't get the theories.

He is intelligent, amazingly intelligent, actually.

But he's not meant to be "gotten".

-Desperado Clemency Apollonia, Vagrant of Elanthia

******************
SEND[Reexa] :::whine::: go awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
******************

Wheller's one of those types who's crazyness and oddness won't be fully grasped until 50 years after his death when ancient Wheller manuscripts are found revealing the secrets of life.

-Desperado Clemency Apollonia, Vagrant of Elanthia

******************
SEND[Reexa] :::whine::: go awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
******************

<Just don't give dumb reasons like Charisma making you a better Role Player as part of your arguement>

i didn't say better, i said different.


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

---

http://robertdell.dyndns.org/DR_Scripts/
click YASSE.dmg
http://sourceforge.net/projects/yasse/

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P.S. no good deed goes un-punished!

---

When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!

<Wheller's one of those types who's crazyness and oddness won't be fully grasped until 50 years after his death when ancient Wheller manuscripts are found revealing the secrets of life.>

actually, i know the secret of life, at least the reason i'm personally here. i'm here to change one person's life. i don't know who, why, or how but that's what i'm here to do.


Druid Wheller Herbmaster, Con Artist of Elanthia

---

http://robertdell.dyndns.org/DR_Scripts/
click YASSE.dmg
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P.S. no good deed goes un-punished!

---

When in doubt, reinvent the wheel!