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>>I remember back at 13, I knew a whole lot of stuff, but a whole lot of nothing actually. I didn't understand consequences of my actions, repercussions of decisions, etc. In that sense, I was naive, and I don't believe many 13 year olds are not naive to the idea of every action has an equal and opposite reaction, possibly effecting their own mortality and personal injury (mental/physical/emotional).<<
I know a lot of adults like that...
The moral of my statement: That's why I gave up on foolish mortals
Souv
xxxx is teaching a class on advanced (compared to what you already know) empathy, and there appears to be room in it. You are in this class!
Huzzah!
>10 years ago most thirteen year olds were more naive then the thirteen year olds of today. Society changes.
Don't let your little precious children read history, either. Long enough ago 13-14 year olds were getting married, having children of their own and living their own lives. Plus la change... Oddly enough, now, historical novels won't show that because of the 'protect the children' mentality. Go figure.
Was a lot different when children of all ages were exposed to life before 18. Now, well, I think its pretty harsh to protect a child from all exposure to human or animal interaction and then expect them to be a healthy, well rounded, social adult the the midnight of their 18th birthday.
Don't let your little precious children read history, either. Long enough ago 13-14 year olds were getting married, having children of their own and living their own lives. Plus la change... Oddly enough, now, historical novels won't show that because of the 'protect the children' mentality. Go figure.
Was a lot different when children of all ages were exposed to life before 18. Now, well, I think its pretty harsh to protect a child from all exposure to human or animal interaction and then expect them to be a healthy, well rounded, social adult the the midnight of their 18th birthday.
<<Was a lot different when children of all ages were exposed to life before 18.>>
Well, in historical times when people tended to die in their 20s and were considered "elderly" in their 30s, you sort of had to get a head start on life if you wanted to accomplish anything.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
[pi]
Well, in historical times when people tended to die in their 20s and were considered "elderly" in their 30s, you sort of had to get a head start on life if you wanted to accomplish anything.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
[pi]
>The predators that do exist in DR that I have seen are largely women, and the worst they will do is break your bank account if you let them
Thought this was funny because my first indecent proposal came from a woman (to my female character) name Rose...something. Kept kissing and hugging Silvanne and trying to get her to go to an inn with her...on the first day of Silvanne's existence in the realms. What made it particularly ironic is that I picked DR specifically to try to avoid this kind of interaction.
Player of Silvanne, Maiamo Heruaminen Khandrishen
Thought this was funny because my first indecent proposal came from a woman (to my female character) name Rose...something. Kept kissing and hugging Silvanne and trying to get her to go to an inn with her...on the first day of Silvanne's existence in the realms. What made it particularly ironic is that I picked DR specifically to try to avoid this kind of interaction.
Player of Silvanne, Maiamo Heruaminen Khandrishen
> Long enough ago 13-14 year olds were getting married, having children of their own and living their own lives.
Long ago, 13-14 year olds were dying due to disease, the plague, poor medical attention etc. 13-14 year olds were getting pregnant because of life span differences, the numerous means of imminent death etc.
[sarcasm]
I say bring back survival of the fittest and watch the population decrease. Would stop overpopulation in about....20 years. :)
[/sarcasm]
Raudhan, the Renegade Empath
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
Long ago, 13-14 year olds were dying due to disease, the plague, poor medical attention etc. 13-14 year olds were getting pregnant because of life span differences, the numerous means of imminent death etc.
[sarcasm]
I say bring back survival of the fittest and watch the population decrease. Would stop overpopulation in about....20 years. :)
[/sarcasm]
Raudhan, the Renegade Empath
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
Rose-something is a repeat offender. She tried to get me to an inn when I was about 10th circle. I roleplay a widowed ex-moonmage turned empath, just so I can avoid relationships in DR. I come here to escape drama, and all I see from nearly every relationship in game is more drama. So...Raud was married to a moonmage who was her mentor in the guild. He walked the infamous road, she took her love of magic and turned it into a positive force, but never forgets her dear loved Arsehat. But yeah, Rose-something or other flirted with me. I used my typical line to get people to back off, and she said "we all have needs. Come to the inn." I screamed and ran.
Raudhan, the Renegade Empath
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
Raudhan, the Renegade Empath
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
That sounds really, really funny.
And I think the 13-14 year olds point was trying to illustrate that human beings are certainly capable of maturing quicker than people seem to think. You don't suddenly become capable of rational thought at the age of 18.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
And I think the 13-14 year olds point was trying to illustrate that human beings are certainly capable of maturing quicker than people seem to think. You don't suddenly become capable of rational thought at the age of 18.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
Physical maturation is completely separate from mental maturation. On the physical side, one must note that in today's society our children are maturing earlier than previous generations--with explanations ranging from lack of stress to added stress to environmental dangers (ie, all that rocket fuel-laced milk Mom fed us).
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html
Ok, so there shouldn't be an age limit? We shouldn't worry about 13 year olds seeing graphic things, and I don't mean bloody stuff, scrolling across the screen? There was an incedent on the gweth up in Ratha the other day that was quit innappropriate for young people. On the same note, if you feel that the internet is a safe way for your children to explore their curiosity about sex think about someone in Dragonrealms creating a relationship with your 13 year old. After a series of months they ask them to meet them IRL. Your 13 year old complies. Missing 13 year old, hello milk carton. Yes, a bit dramatized but it is a possibility no matter how remote. And then after exploring with text what's next? XXX websites? Deciding they want to try it out IRL with some older boy? There are dangers to this as well...such as AIDs and other STDs. I, for one, will never feel comfortable allowing my daughter to play DR no matter how well "supervised" I think she's being by myself. If she wants to learn about sex then yeah, I'll give her the talk...not the birds and the bees but the real one. So in closing DR should definetely be 18 or older in my eyes.
~Billie the player behind Sindea and mother of one.
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
~Billie the player behind Sindea and mother of one.
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
>> Yes, a bit dramatized but it is a possibility no matter how remote.
There is also the possibility that I will step out of my house tomorrow and get hit by a car on my way to class.
There is the possibility I could be mugged, shot, or otherwise assaulted in the neighborhood my class is held in, as there is (from what I'm told) quite a bit of gang activity there.
Someone could jump me outside my workplace and rape or kill me. This almost happened to someone else a few weeks ago.
I could get a bad piece of sashimi tonight at dinner, get a nasty stomach/intestine parasite and die as a result.
But I still go to class, I still go to work, and I still eat sashimi.
All of these things are actually much more likely than someone I meet online bringing harm to me. You can say "Well it COULD happen" all you like...sure, it could happen. Is it likely though? Not remotely. If you're basing what your teenager should and should not be able to do on one in a million chances, then maybe you should just wrap her in bubble wrap and confine her to a padded room. You know, just to be safe.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
There is also the possibility that I will step out of my house tomorrow and get hit by a car on my way to class.
There is the possibility I could be mugged, shot, or otherwise assaulted in the neighborhood my class is held in, as there is (from what I'm told) quite a bit of gang activity there.
Someone could jump me outside my workplace and rape or kill me. This almost happened to someone else a few weeks ago.
I could get a bad piece of sashimi tonight at dinner, get a nasty stomach/intestine parasite and die as a result.
But I still go to class, I still go to work, and I still eat sashimi.
All of these things are actually much more likely than someone I meet online bringing harm to me. You can say "Well it COULD happen" all you like...sure, it could happen. Is it likely though? Not remotely. If you're basing what your teenager should and should not be able to do on one in a million chances, then maybe you should just wrap her in bubble wrap and confine her to a padded room. You know, just to be safe.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
Ok, the examples you have used were either accidents or something that could be avoided with certain precautions. I'm not wrapping my child in bubble wrap. It's called being "cautious." I grew up seeing half my friends have kids by the time they were 14 or 15, drop out of highschool, have the guy who got them pregnant run away, end up with dead end jobs. I've had friends die from overdosing because their parents didn't take the time to ask where they were going, what they were doing and to make sure their children would be in a safe enviroment. I've had a friend die at the age of 12 from a drunk driver. That was an accident, only way it might have been avoided is if the drunk driver's parents had taught him that drinking and driving kills people, and not always you...you could be the one to walk away alive while parents are left grieving over their dead child. When I was thirteen I got the internet. I was given a list of rules to follow, never give my real name, never give my address phone number whatever, my mom decided that was enough and proceeded to not monitor anything I did. I met a few guys off the internet, fell into a bad crowd and went through some rough years as a result. I'm not trying to coddle my child, merely protect her from making some of the same mistakes I did so that she might be a better person, might finish highschool and not get in with the wrong crowd. Being concerned about on-line predators and real life ones, being concerned about my child having sex too young and getting AIDs and dying from it or some other STDs, being concerned that my child should have a future and not have sex until she's at least 16 is NOT wrapping her up in "bubble wrap" and protecting her from the harsh realities of life. It's showing care and concern for the only child i will ever have and wanting to protect her from people who would take advantage of her, so that she's not a baby having a baby. I don't consider it being over protective at all, I consider it being a loving and attentive parent. A parent who will know where her child is, take the time to get to know her friends and her friend's parents. I won't completely shelter her..my husband was sheltered and as a result I still act like his mother because he has no coping skills, while I on the other hand was thrust into the world on my own having to work a full time job to put a roof over my head and food on my table at the age of 16. So forgive me if I want better for my daughter than what I had and so I'm going to monitor her actions on the internet, her friends and where she goes and what she does. And I stand by my opinion that DR should indeed be an 18 and over game. Period.
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
Nothing would more effectively shut down DR forever than the backlash and lawsuits that would ensue if a teen or pre-teen were victimized by a predator he/she met in the game. The chance of such a thing taking place is very very slim, but it does happen. There's nothing wrong with being careful. There's a middle ground between overly protective and libertine.
So you used bad judgement and had a bad experience and are assuming your daughter has the same poor judgement you did. Okay. If you made these mistakes why aren't you taking steps as a parent to make sure your daughter has better judgement than you did?
I met up with people I'd met online around that age too. Nothing but beneficial experiences. I live with one of them now. He's a good man. Taking the proper precautions and teaching your daughter good judgement regarding people will do more for her than anything else will. Of course, I suppose that's something you have to learn yourself first, and I don't know you so I can't really say either way.
As for the STD fears...well. Again. It's not just your job as a parent to tell your child what she can and cannot do, set curfews, or feed and clothe her. It's your job to teach her how to exercise good judgement in potentially harmful situations. Make her an intelligent, thoughtful person. It's possible even at that age to make good decisions.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
I met up with people I'd met online around that age too. Nothing but beneficial experiences. I live with one of them now. He's a good man. Taking the proper precautions and teaching your daughter good judgement regarding people will do more for her than anything else will. Of course, I suppose that's something you have to learn yourself first, and I don't know you so I can't really say either way.
As for the STD fears...well. Again. It's not just your job as a parent to tell your child what she can and cannot do, set curfews, or feed and clothe her. It's your job to teach her how to exercise good judgement in potentially harmful situations. Make her an intelligent, thoughtful person. It's possible even at that age to make good decisions.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
>>So you used bad judgement and had a bad experience and are assuming your daughter has the same poor judgement you did. Okay. If you made these mistakes why aren't you taking steps as a parent to make sure your daughter has better judgement than you did?
yes...my daughter is a year old....she has such poor judgement. I happily haven't reached that point yet. All I have to worry about is the lint she keeps finding on the floor no matter how many times I vacuum.
But this isn't about me, it's more about parents needing to be more concerned with their childs activity and if a parent feels that thier 13 year old should be exploring their sexuality on-line and that is where it will end then they are sorely mistaken. Yes, you may not get STDs other the internet but you can get them in real life. Which is where the exploration on-line will eventually end up. 13 year old thinks, "Hey, this sounds pretty fun, maybe i'll find a guy who i can act this little scene out with IRL." So yeah...I think it's poor judgement to allow a thirteen year old to explore their "sexuality" on-line in any type of form. Because thoughts lead to actions and actions lead to consequences. i.e-getting pregnant at the age of 13 or even worse contracting an STD. I think some parents seriously need to take a step back and think on the whole "exploring" bit. I wouldn't want my kid to meet anyone off the internet, it's dangerous and risky business.
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
yes...my daughter is a year old....she has such poor judgement. I happily haven't reached that point yet. All I have to worry about is the lint she keeps finding on the floor no matter how many times I vacuum.
But this isn't about me, it's more about parents needing to be more concerned with their childs activity and if a parent feels that thier 13 year old should be exploring their sexuality on-line and that is where it will end then they are sorely mistaken. Yes, you may not get STDs other the internet but you can get them in real life. Which is where the exploration on-line will eventually end up. 13 year old thinks, "Hey, this sounds pretty fun, maybe i'll find a guy who i can act this little scene out with IRL." So yeah...I think it's poor judgement to allow a thirteen year old to explore their "sexuality" on-line in any type of form. Because thoughts lead to actions and actions lead to consequences. i.e-getting pregnant at the age of 13 or even worse contracting an STD. I think some parents seriously need to take a step back and think on the whole "exploring" bit. I wouldn't want my kid to meet anyone off the internet, it's dangerous and risky business.
Upon the fabric of this pristine apron is embroidered various wilted flowers. Written in fair script are the words, "This Empath likes to watch you die -- move on."
Hi there,
I happened to be reading here and saw this debate. As a mother of 3 ranging from 9 - 14 I feel I can respond and give some feedback with some level of experience behind me.
I walk the middle line. I allow my kids to play on-line games and I don't watch over their shoulders because frankly when all three are playing its impossible to watch every keystroke, so I have encouraged them to watch each other. This has proved fairly effective because they squabble and love to tattle. I also do spot checks and just check to see whats going on.
The 14 year old is a little tricky, but I have tried to foster an open relationship with him, and I do spot checks on him, check what is on his computer when he isn't looking and just tried to be the Mum he will come to if he has questions and/or issues. So far, he has been forthcoming when that 'innocent google became an anatomy lesson' (so well put!).
Its human nature to feel protective of our children. And at one year old, I know I was like a lioness if danger or hurt threatened or had happened to my baby. I will never forget the astonishment I felt at myself when another child bit mine and felt such rage, I was so furious. Happily I managed to talk to the child's mum calmly and scooped mine up and soothed his hurts.
We all have our standards, and we base them on own experiences. There is nothing wrong with that. That is what makes us loving parents, and in the end, time will tell if we have been successful or not.
I have tried playing with my kids in DR. The experiment wasn't all that happy. The 14 year old was ok except he didn't realise about the hunting in someone elses room and came to me shocked and upset when he was killed. The 11 year old, well that was a bit sad, because we had been joking around and slapping and punching him and laughing and joking, and so he did it to an EMpath of all people! The 14 year old comes to me and tells me and I had to apologise personally to the Empath. And....that was the end of that experiment. I found they were just not mature enough to be in DR alone. The nine year old I didn't even try. Getting her to read anything more than Stella the blahblah fairy books is impossible.
So, don't forget, you do not need to put up with indecent advances. We have in game tools specifically designed. You can report, you can log out, you can move, you can squelch them, you can tell them flat out stop, you can use the warn verb, you can write feedback if it gets particularly alarming.
If you think someone is being a predator with someone else, encourage the person to report once, and assist. That way we have a record and if the person persists over a few days or weeks, then we have a record.
Anyhow enough of my blather.
Ariawen
I happened to be reading here and saw this debate. As a mother of 3 ranging from 9 - 14 I feel I can respond and give some feedback with some level of experience behind me.
I walk the middle line. I allow my kids to play on-line games and I don't watch over their shoulders because frankly when all three are playing its impossible to watch every keystroke, so I have encouraged them to watch each other. This has proved fairly effective because they squabble and love to tattle. I also do spot checks and just check to see whats going on.
The 14 year old is a little tricky, but I have tried to foster an open relationship with him, and I do spot checks on him, check what is on his computer when he isn't looking and just tried to be the Mum he will come to if he has questions and/or issues. So far, he has been forthcoming when that 'innocent google became an anatomy lesson' (so well put!).
Its human nature to feel protective of our children. And at one year old, I know I was like a lioness if danger or hurt threatened or had happened to my baby. I will never forget the astonishment I felt at myself when another child bit mine and felt such rage, I was so furious. Happily I managed to talk to the child's mum calmly and scooped mine up and soothed his hurts.
We all have our standards, and we base them on own experiences. There is nothing wrong with that. That is what makes us loving parents, and in the end, time will tell if we have been successful or not.
I have tried playing with my kids in DR. The experiment wasn't all that happy. The 14 year old was ok except he didn't realise about the hunting in someone elses room and came to me shocked and upset when he was killed. The 11 year old, well that was a bit sad, because we had been joking around and slapping and punching him and laughing and joking, and so he did it to an EMpath of all people! The 14 year old comes to me and tells me and I had to apologise personally to the Empath. And....that was the end of that experiment. I found they were just not mature enough to be in DR alone. The nine year old I didn't even try. Getting her to read anything more than Stella the blahblah fairy books is impossible.
So, don't forget, you do not need to put up with indecent advances. We have in game tools specifically designed. You can report, you can log out, you can move, you can squelch them, you can tell them flat out stop, you can use the warn verb, you can write feedback if it gets particularly alarming.
If you think someone is being a predator with someone else, encourage the person to report once, and assist. That way we have a record and if the person persists over a few days or weeks, then we have a record.
Anyhow enough of my blather.
Ariawen
>> yes...my daughter is a year old....she has such poor judgement.
Pardon, I thought you posted that you had a 13 year old daughter. Misread between all the comparisons to our imaginary 13 year old.
>> Yes, you may not get STDs other the internet but you can get them in real life. Which is where the exploration on-line will eventually end up.
You really think so? I don't. I didn't. This goes back to the whole teaching your kid better judgement thing. Not all kids run off to imitate everything they see on television (or on the internet as the case may be). Most are (or used to be) raised better than that.
And...I personally believe the Internet to be relatively harmless so long as proper precautions are taken. As someone pointed out, most STDs cannot be contracted through an ethernet cable. All things considered it's probably a lot safer than what they could be doing instead.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
Pardon, I thought you posted that you had a 13 year old daughter. Misread between all the comparisons to our imaginary 13 year old.
>> Yes, you may not get STDs other the internet but you can get them in real life. Which is where the exploration on-line will eventually end up.
You really think so? I don't. I didn't. This goes back to the whole teaching your kid better judgement thing. Not all kids run off to imitate everything they see on television (or on the internet as the case may be). Most are (or used to be) raised better than that.
And...I personally believe the Internet to be relatively harmless so long as proper precautions are taken. As someone pointed out, most STDs cannot be contracted through an ethernet cable. All things considered it's probably a lot safer than what they could be doing instead.
Rev. Reene, player of a few
Niaura asks, "wat happen?"
>
You say to Niaura, "Someone set you up the bomb."
I personally feel no child under the age of 18 should be subjected to being threatened about having their lantern taken away...or rerolled...or rolled for that matter....
REEXA! You know what I'm talking about!
p.s. I'm waiting for the title. I've endured countless amounts of harrassment...I wish to log-in and see "Renegade Empath Raudhan S'il-Softuch has connected." :-P COME ON!
Renegade Empath Raudhan just arrived.
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
REEXA! You know what I'm talking about!
p.s. I'm waiting for the title. I've endured countless amounts of harrassment...I wish to log-in and see "Renegade Empath Raudhan S'il-Softuch has connected." :-P COME ON!
Renegade Empath Raudhan just arrived.
Souv says, "Annael should have been commended for her knifing empaths"
When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.
I guess I've always just been weird. I think its far better to teach a child, "Don't let anyone touch you." and "Don't let yourself be alone with an adult." and "Don't believe what people tell you on line." than to try to keep them isolated and ignorant.
Probably because the only problem I've seen with the former is family/friends being unable to help the child because the child won't trust them. Whereas with the latter I've seen far, far too many kids do all kinds of things they shouldn't because they didn't know they were wrong.
Unfortunately, human beings generally want sex, companionship, friendship, affection, attention and all those bad things long, long before they're 18. Babies are born wanting attention and affection. If you don't do train them out of it when they are under a year old, even better under a month or even a week, then they'll always be vulnerable.
Probably because the only problem I've seen with the former is family/friends being unable to help the child because the child won't trust them. Whereas with the latter I've seen far, far too many kids do all kinds of things they shouldn't because they didn't know they were wrong.
Unfortunately, human beings generally want sex, companionship, friendship, affection, attention and all those bad things long, long before they're 18. Babies are born wanting attention and affection. If you don't do train them out of it when they are under a year old, even better under a month or even a week, then they'll always be vulnerable.
>I think its far better to teach a child, "Don't let anyone touch you." and "Don't let yourself be alone with an adult." and "Don't believe what people tell you on line." than to try to keep them isolated and ignorant.
I agree completely with Sakhara on these points. Developing a foundation for good decision making is the most important part of raising a child.
>I guess I've always just been weird.
I agree with this one too. Heh.
~Purehand
I agree completely with Sakhara on these points. Developing a foundation for good decision making is the most important part of raising a child.
>I guess I've always just been weird.
I agree with this one too. Heh.
~Purehand
