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Has anyone put together a plan for training combats as an empath? I know that it's not really a thing for there to be a complete "construct creature ladder" but how feasible is it? The other option is to permashock myself, but I'm not clear what spells I'd lose. And no more training empathy, which would be bad.
>>Gregoryn4: Has anyone put together a plan for training combats as an empath? I know that it's not really a thing for there to be a complete "construct creature ladder" but how feasible is it? The other option is to permashock myself, but I'm not clear what spells I'd lose. And no more training empathy, which would be bad.
I think it's been stated before that having a more complete construct ladder is a goal.
The current construct list is pretty good, although I don't know how accurate Elanthipedia's learning ranges are in 3.1. (The learning ranges are likely to be tighter.)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Construct
Defense-wise, you may want to fill in the gaps with some non-constructs, especially if you want to train skinning or empathy in combat. (Constructs generally can't be manipulated.)
Even with the shock rewrite, you would probably want to avoid becoming perma-shocked. As Melete put it, "I want the shock-lock state to have some teeth. Obviously an Empath who hasn't hit the circle cap yet will have some incentives to keep their empathy intact, but I don't want to encourage Empaths who have hit the circle cap to view shock-lock as the default state. Thus, some of the more awesome healing spells do require at least some empathy to use."
According to GM Melete, these abilities will not work if you are completely insensitive (perma-shocked): healing others, link, perceive health, manipulate, shift, Fountain of Creation, Regenerate, Gift of Life, Heart Link, Nissa's Binding, Innocence, and Guardian Spirit.
For playability reasons, the bread-and-butter healing spells, even though they require empathy, will still work, but they will be severely penalized. These spells are: Heal Wounds, Heal Scars, Heal, Vitality Healing, Flush Poisons, and Cure Disease.
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
I think it's been stated before that having a more complete construct ladder is a goal.
The current construct list is pretty good, although I don't know how accurate Elanthipedia's learning ranges are in 3.1. (The learning ranges are likely to be tighter.)
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Construct
Defense-wise, you may want to fill in the gaps with some non-constructs, especially if you want to train skinning or empathy in combat. (Constructs generally can't be manipulated.)
Even with the shock rewrite, you would probably want to avoid becoming perma-shocked. As Melete put it, "I want the shock-lock state to have some teeth. Obviously an Empath who hasn't hit the circle cap yet will have some incentives to keep their empathy intact, but I don't want to encourage Empaths who have hit the circle cap to view shock-lock as the default state. Thus, some of the more awesome healing spells do require at least some empathy to use."
According to GM Melete, these abilities will not work if you are completely insensitive (perma-shocked): healing others, link, perceive health, manipulate, shift, Fountain of Creation, Regenerate, Gift of Life, Heart Link, Nissa's Binding, Innocence, and Guardian Spirit.
For playability reasons, the bread-and-butter healing spells, even though they require empathy, will still work, but they will be severely penalized. These spells are: Heal Wounds, Heal Scars, Heal, Vitality Healing, Flush Poisons, and Cure Disease.
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
>>Sarkranis: According to GM Melete, these abilities will not work if you are completely insensitive (perma-shocked): healing others, link, perceive health, manipulate, shift, Fountain of Creation, Regenerate, Gift of Life, Heart Link, Nissa's Binding, Innocence, and Guardian Spirit.
Actually, Nissa's Binding does not seem to be affected by shock. (That was not always so.)
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Actually, Nissa's Binding does not seem to be affected by shock. (That was not always so.)
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Just to add to what Sarkranis said about the construct ladder: It's been a fairly continuous climb up so far, although I have found a couple gaps. You can use Aggressive Stance to bridge those. I can't really speak to past ashu hhnvi, however, so you might have difficulty further up.
Another consideration is that constructs tend to have special attacks or other eccentricities. Marble gargs, for example, are immune to non-holy magic, so you won't be able to practice target (unless you use your guardian spirit) or debilitation. On the other hand, they are one of the few constructs that can be skinned. My advice would be to look at what construct you want to hunt, then find a living creature in your skill range that's within easy access to work empathy and whatever skills you can't on the construct.
Another consideration is that constructs tend to have special attacks or other eccentricities. Marble gargs, for example, are immune to non-holy magic, so you won't be able to practice target (unless you use your guardian spirit) or debilitation. On the other hand, they are one of the few constructs that can be skinned. My advice would be to look at what construct you want to hunt, then find a living creature in your skill range that's within easy access to work empathy and whatever skills you can't on the construct.
>Actually, Nissa's Binding does not seem to be affected by shock. (That was not always so.)
Didn't it recently change from being signature? That's my recollection at least. A non-signature spell should not be effected by shock.
And to the OP, you can still learn Empathy through anatomy charts. It's a very slow means. I haven't checked if we can teach Empathy to a perma-shocked Empath now that we don't need to link to teach.
Asbhuan/Plat
Didn't it recently change from being signature? That's my recollection at least. A non-signature spell should not be effected by shock.
And to the OP, you can still learn Empathy through anatomy charts. It's a very slow means. I haven't checked if we can teach Empathy to a perma-shocked Empath now that we don't need to link to teach.
Asbhuan/Plat
>>Actually, Nissa's Binding does not seem to be affected by shock. (That was not always so.)
>Didn't it recently change from being signature? That's my recollection at least. A non-signature spell should not be effected by shock.
Yes it did. I tested this last night, NB can definitely be cast while shocked.
The only real reason you couldn't cast NB 'back in the day' while shocked is because you needed HL to cast NB. While NB is really "the signature empath spell" it seems to have very little to do with empathy itself.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
>Didn't it recently change from being signature? That's my recollection at least. A non-signature spell should not be effected by shock.
Yes it did. I tested this last night, NB can definitely be cast while shocked.
The only real reason you couldn't cast NB 'back in the day' while shocked is because you needed HL to cast NB. While NB is really "the signature empath spell" it seems to have very little to do with empathy itself.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
From what I recollect, it started out signature requiring empathy, moved to non-signature with no empathy requirement, and is now signature with no empathy req.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
I love manipulate and I love the way empath function has been diversified lately. But doesn't allow us to train weapons. Is that a problem? Maybe. I would be very happy with a non-damaging set of brawling moves that let us do things like penalize offense/defense, hit fatigue, stun without damaging. We could milk creatures excessively that way, but honestly, we already can with TM (also, so can WMs with paeldryth's wrath). Without weapon ranks we can't parry as effectively, which is kind of a problem. Shield + evasion is probably sufficient. If we could train brawling, we could parry effectively with parry sticks.
But none of these things are imperative. The empath combat experience is pretty satisfying right now, actually. Compared my equal-skill barbarian, my empath drops enemies at about the same rate and can handle swarms much more effectively (2x manip + guardian spirit, tossing out debuffs).
Interestingly, my empath in TF does most of his empathy learning through perc health. It's just so far ahead of his defenses that manipulating doesn't teach but the trickle of exp from perc health keeps the skill moving at about the same rate as my tertiary defenses. Unless things change, I may never need to manipulate. Tert skills are weird huh?
Anyways, thanks for sharing that link. That's a huge help. And thanks to the folks that have worked on this guild over the years. It's come a long way.
But none of these things are imperative. The empath combat experience is pretty satisfying right now, actually. Compared my equal-skill barbarian, my empath drops enemies at about the same rate and can handle swarms much more effectively (2x manip + guardian spirit, tossing out debuffs).
Interestingly, my empath in TF does most of his empathy learning through perc health. It's just so far ahead of his defenses that manipulating doesn't teach but the trickle of exp from perc health keeps the skill moving at about the same rate as my tertiary defenses. Unless things change, I may never need to manipulate. Tert skills are weird huh?
Anyways, thanks for sharing that link. That's a huge help. And thanks to the folks that have worked on this guild over the years. It's come a long way.
FWIW, I find not having to train weapons at all to be extremely liberating and a nice change of pace. I'm in combat to lock defenses + tactics/debil/tm, and when done, I can move onto something else. My Empath doesn't train stealth or weapons, and gets most of his Empathy from combat.
Having trained Moonies and Necros, and then switching to barbs, I just have no desire to train weapons on a weapon tert that has more effective tools anyway.
Having trained Moonies and Necros, and then switching to barbs, I just have no desire to train weapons on a weapon tert that has more effective tools anyway.
