A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/16/2015 05:43 PM CDT
I would like to humbly request that the empath sphere of influence stat choices be looked at. Currently we get discipline stamina and wisdom. Thematically and mechanically discipline and stamina make sense for an empath to specialize in. It takes a steel nerve to suffer that kind of pain unflinchingly. It also takes a great deal of stamina to do so while staying on your feet, since the act of transference is quite exhausting. Wisdom, however, is an odd duck. I don't see why empaths would be inherently more or less wise than anyone else. Mechanically it is used in very few of our mechanics, with the one exception I can think of off the top of my head being perhaps Nissa's Binding, and a generic boost to spell casting. It seems clear that wisdom was chosen because the developers wanted uniqueness, and ours was an iteration of discipline stamina that hadn't been used yet.
That all being said, there is one other glaring choice for an empathic stat that makes sense both thematically and mechanically, and that is our old friend Charisma. Firstly, empaths, being a social guild by necessity, through interaction with patients, would be naturally charismatic.
Secondly, empath players of old from before the scholarship merger will remember our crazy teaching requirements per circle. This was justified by explaining that empaths were intended to be Elanthia's teachers and scholars. It only makes sense for Elanthia's teachers to specialize in the teaching and scholarly boosting stat. (Increases the amount of scholarship you learn from classes, among other benefits)
Thirdly, the mechanical impacts of charisma far outweigh wisdom. Charisma boosts the availability of shifts at any given skill level. Charisma is the primary factor in charm contests, which makes up half the empaths' offensive toolkit. Charisma used to (unsure if it still does?) boost avenger significantly. All in all just a very empath-y stat.
In summary, I realize that stamina discipline charisma is already "taken" by paladins, but why is this sphere of influence uniqueness so important? Must we be given a (mostly) useless primary stat just to relieve some OCD compulsion of an original designer? :P
PS: I'd love to see us have something replaced with a charisma buff!
Re: A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/16/2015 05:54 PM CDT
I agree, wisdom is a terrible choice. Don't replace it, just remove it outright and Empaths won't be like paladins. Easy peasy.
:P
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Weapons for Sale:
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
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Re: A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/16/2015 09:27 PM CDT
The two Charm vs spells Empaths have are combat avoidance spells. Charisma is strikingly less useful to a combat Empath than Wisdom, since the actually useful combat debils use Magic and Mind.
Charisma also, to my knowledge, does not affect a GS beyond... being a mental involved maybe in casting the spell?
I also do not think healing implies anything about being charismatic. I think it implies everything about having a steely will and a the fortitude of a mountain giant.
Buuuuuuuut if Charisma is the stat used for shifting (I honestly don't know about this, my Empath doesn't shift) then maybe pick up Auspice?
Charisma also, to my knowledge, does not affect a GS beyond... being a mental involved maybe in casting the spell?
I also do not think healing implies anything about being charismatic. I think it implies everything about having a steely will and a the fortitude of a mountain giant.
Buuuuuuuut if Charisma is the stat used for shifting (I honestly don't know about this, my Empath doesn't shift) then maybe pick up Auspice?
Re: A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/17/2015 09:57 AM CDT
>>>Charisma used to (unsure if it still does?) boost avenger significantly.
>>Charisma also, to my knowledge, does not affect a GS beyond... being a mental involved maybe in casting the spell?
JHALIA is correct. Charisma is not a factor at all in casting GS and has nothing remotely to do with the current incarnation of GS.
Wisdom effects spell damage. There was some talk about this effecting spell healing potency during 3.0 development. However I think wisdom doesn't impact non-damaging spell potency that way right now.
>>>Charisma boosts the availability of shifts at any given skill level.
This is wrong. Unless something has changed that I missed, shifts available are from Empathy, Scholarship, and Appraisal. Charisma only impacts the difficulty of the shift, and not the availability of them. Additionally shifting is very niche, where wisdom impacts spells which are more often used.
>>The two Charm vs spells Empaths have are combat avoidance spells. Charisma is strikingly less useful to a combat Empath than Wisdom, since the actually useful combat debils use Magic and Mind.
^ This. I strongly disagree that "the mechanical impacts of charisma far outweigh wisdom."
Personally I prefer wisdom over charisma, and would be unhappy if it changed. An argument can really be made for both stats, but we don't have native spell buffs to either at the moment anyway.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
>>Charisma also, to my knowledge, does not affect a GS beyond... being a mental involved maybe in casting the spell?
JHALIA is correct. Charisma is not a factor at all in casting GS and has nothing remotely to do with the current incarnation of GS.
Wisdom effects spell damage. There was some talk about this effecting spell healing potency during 3.0 development. However I think wisdom doesn't impact non-damaging spell potency that way right now.
>>>Charisma boosts the availability of shifts at any given skill level.
This is wrong. Unless something has changed that I missed, shifts available are from Empathy, Scholarship, and Appraisal. Charisma only impacts the difficulty of the shift, and not the availability of them. Additionally shifting is very niche, where wisdom impacts spells which are more often used.
>>The two Charm vs spells Empaths have are combat avoidance spells. Charisma is strikingly less useful to a combat Empath than Wisdom, since the actually useful combat debils use Magic and Mind.
^ This. I strongly disagree that "the mechanical impacts of charisma far outweigh wisdom."
Personally I prefer wisdom over charisma, and would be unhappy if it changed. An argument can really be made for both stats, but we don't have native spell buffs to either at the moment anyway.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Re: A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/17/2015 11:28 AM CDT
<<Personally I prefer wisdom over charisma, and would be unhappy if it changed. An argument can really be made for both stats, but we don't have native spell buffs to either at the moment anyway.>>
This is pretty much my take on it as well. Wisdom is more useful in the realm of spell contests, and there's a Ranger spell that boosts it so it's more accessible than Charisma would be. I'd say leave it.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
This is pretty much my take on it as well. Wisdom is more useful in the realm of spell contests, and there's a Ranger spell that boosts it so it's more accessible than Charisma would be. I'd say leave it.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Re: A Plee: Empath Sphere of Influence Stats on 06/19/2015 04:53 PM CDT
I'm on the side of keeping charisma out of empath SoI. It's arguably the least useful stat. It's the ONLY stat that shows up no where in SvS defenses. And, it's only becoming less important, not more. Its effect on general combat was reduced with the removal of multi-opp. Its impact on the justice system has been decreased. From what I can see, its weight in the teaching calcs has been reduced too. Granted, I'm a player, not a GM, I can't see behind the curtain but there has been more mention its removal than its addition.
Wisdom makes more sense to me, for empaths. I see empaths having their beginnings as the wise village healer. The type that spoke rarely but whose words had the weight of careful thought behind them.
Wisdom makes more sense to me, for empaths. I see empaths having their beginnings as the wise village healer. The type that spoke rarely but whose words had the weight of careful thought behind them.