Why would you put a moon mage in all light plate? Also you're far better off doing a forged mod hindrance half plate (heavy plate) with forged LP accessories, if you really want to go the plate wearing moonie route (heck, I'd recommend that setup for just about anyone).

~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, Ranger
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
>Tiesse exclaims, "The power of soon compels you!"

I'm not sure why you'd want to go plate at all; hiding is one my survivals and I can't imagine having to tough through disarm and lockpicking like some of my tougher compatriots do.

Also, is there a penalty to targeted magic based on hindrance?

>Also, is there a penalty to targeted magic based on hindrance?

No.

>I have no idea how leather wearers train their defenses.

We try not to get hit in the first place.

Not that I'm an expert, but I train HP for the TDP's, and the fun of being a moon mage that knows more HP then some paladins. I trained most of it with a helm and gloves. Then I decided to go full LC. I like that better.

---

Defender Farluk Zoulvaun of the Monks, an Elven Moon Mage

<<Then I decided to go full LC. I like that better.>>
I used a full suit of LC. It made ambushing at level much harder. LC = 90.

<<If you have the forged gear why not use it?>>
1. My Paladin is using them :)
2. My characters are frequently broke
3. I don't like the feeling of not being able to replace my gear on demand

<<plate on a moonie?>>
1. I don't like to retreat when one more then I can normally handles enters
-I could MB or HYP but that feels cheap :)
It does make me feel vulnerable in plate though.. no hiding at will.
2. Wounds accumulate much slower, at least at my hunting level

Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!

I'll start this with saying DR is an amazingly open experience and all sorts of set-ups can be extremely effective.

That said, I would not be caught dead playing my Moon Mage in anything heavier than leather, and seriously consider going to cloth or nothing in the post CoL era. My estimation is that Moon Mages are best served by focusing on their abilities in stealth, evasion, and prayer to the Random Number God.

-Armifer
"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
-Viktor Frankl

<<Random Number God>>
What kind of sacrifices does he accept, no listing on Elanthipedia. :)

<<in the post CoL era>>
Not sure I want to join the ranks of another fiery/writhing cage wearer...

Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!

Since I got back I've considered swapping Mozz from LC down to Cloth but... wow. I tried cloth in like one armor slot doing the same things I normally do for a bit, and it wasn't good results. LC never did make a lot of sense for Mozzik from an IC perspective, but it was significantly lighter than leather back when I picked it out, and also significantly less hindering for stealth than it is now.

Maybe if you could player craft cloth, or if there were cloth eye armor?

Ah well... Hiding may be one of my top 6 but I'm not really the stealthy type of MM... and I can train on shadowlings enough to fill my needs, or until I get off my bum and swap it out for a survival Mozzik does use.

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

>What kind of sacrifices does he accept, no listing on Elanthipedia. :)

He demands that you randomly sacrifice yourself. He makes this demand clear by tripping you, flashing light in your eyes, making you stumble, etc.

>>The principles of the Reformed Church of Evasion and Orthodox Shieldarians are not mutually exclusive, and someone can embrace both as paths to the one true faith. Despite our differences, we can both agree it's a better option than those whacky Parrytologists.

Ahh, but yes, the one true faith is that of the Coven of the YOU CAN'T SEE ME!

---

-TG, et al.

You just wait until my god lets me parry arrows and lightningbolts! We really will be whacking then!

>> Saying that are you taking into account that most LC is lighter than most leather

Lighter doesn't matter. Anyone that is still having burden issues past a certain point is either min-maxing their moon mage to an absurd degree (at which point I question why they're doing combat in the first place) or are carrying too much crap (guilty here).

What matters is hindrance, and chain does hinder more than leather. Especially stealth-wise.

---

Rev. Reene

"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America

I don't see how he's wrong. Moon Mages are the worst guild at armor and always have been. Given our status as survival secondary, it's in our best interests to maximize our effectiveness with evasion and stealth. Using heavier armor usually isn't worth it.

I've been debating switching to leather myself, but I'm not sure I could commit myself to training 150 ranks of another tert skill.

---

Rev. Reene

"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America

I really should work in a touch of cloth and leather into my armor set and slowly migrate over to them (or at least make it a lot less painful to do so if I decide to).

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

I guess the diffrence in views is a training set up vs a kill set up. If I'm out to kill somthing I play a lot diffrently than if I'm out to learn from somthing.

Stealth is a great defense but I don't learn much evasion, shield, parry, multi or armor by being hidden. In training I hide often but try not to stay hidden for long periods of time because while it's an exelent defense it's a bad way to train multiple skills while hunting.

So assuming i'm going to put aside my best defense in order to train my others I'm looking at evasion, shield, multi and parry. It's generaly accepted that the best way to train these skills, espeshily multi, is to stand at melee range with things and be attacked by them so you can defend.

Thats where the armor comes in. Standing at melee with things that teach you defenses will generaly result in you being hit. The better the armor between you and the thing hitting you, the less likely you are to die.

So i'm a moon mage out to train. On one hand I want to train stealth because it's my best defense. On the other hand I want to train the other defenses because I like to be able surviving my best defense failing. If I go to one extream and wear no armor i'm far more likely to not live through this training exercise. If I go the other way to tank i'm not gonna get much training done on the stealth side of things.

So for the sake of being able to train them all i've chosen LC ,though with a new moon mage I'd probably go with leather given the tanned qualitys now. I wouldn't dream of suggesting to a newb to wear cloth or no armor...Well, okay. I would. But i'd be doing it to be a jerk :)

-Serc


"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer

>135 mech/85 leather... would I have a shot in hell of making leathers worth wearing?

You could probably make greaves or gloves, but leathers, no.

>Since I got back I've considered swapping Mozz from LC down to Cloth but... wow. I tried cloth in like one armor slot doing the same things I normally do for a bit, and it wasn't good results. LC never did make a lot of sense for Mozzik from an IC perspective, but it was significantly lighter than leather back when I picked it out, and also significantly less hindering for stealth than it is now.

I too have found that LC is the best combination of protection/stealth. As for IC considerations, here has been my solution. Haven cavalry chain robe + knife clan metal dye yields:

The sapphire blue robe is light chain.

The robe looks like it offers protection for the following areas:

right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back

Certainly not as good as forged stuff, but hey its a trade-off I will take to not stray too far from my IC persona.


Cydrik

______________________________________

"I have a Ph.d... in Horribleness!" www.drhorrible.com

Hmm...

Shield Usage: 163 15% perplexed	Leather Armor: 150 50% clear
Light Chain: 99 91% clear	Heavy Chain: 80 76% clear
Light Plate: 150 50% clear	Heavy Plate: 150 50% clear
Cloth Armor: 140 57% perplexing	Bone Armor: 150 51% clear
Parry Ability: 244 45.85% clear	Evasion: 281 10.26% clear

Once I get Cloth to 150 I have a set of top quality forged chain to switch to and I'll be testing the viability of training stealth in chain for myself for the first time since the hinderance change. If I can still train in the same spot, I'll probably stick to chain forever. If I have a little trouble, I'll be highly tempted to wait and see just what kind of defense CoL + MaF offers once they stack to see if no armor is actually a valid option. A little voice in the back of my head screams "TDPs!" at me when I say that, but that may not be a concern if it gets to the point that wearing armor is holding me back.

So far I hate cloth if for no other reason than it's totally fugly. Also, bone sucks. Period. The low stealth hinderance does not save it.

Fun fact: Plate was my first armor to hit 150. If you truly don't care about training hiding, I recommend forged (not storebought) plate even for a Moon Mage. Especially now with CoL.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Ruea says in Ilithic, "At least you're very handsome. That makes the fact that you're always right far easier to live with"

I wear all LC and have a nice, light forged shirt, with 120ish ranks of LC i've got light hindrance.

Hiding is one of my secondary survivals.

How large of a penalty does the LC get up add to Hiding? With the lowest hinderance possible how much of a hiding rank penalty does wearing LC impose? I'm hoping not much higher then 40-50 ranks?