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So now that they've been out and about for awhile... how are people feeling about them? Are they OP'ed? Balanced? Any more bugs? Any problems with the policy around them?
This is for both people summoning the constructs and the people facing them.
My general feeling so far is that the AoE attack might be happening a little too often (And might be a little overtuned now that we finally stomped the bugs out). How is the self healing going?
Also I recently saw a log with the "his's" typo in the special attack but I swear I fixed that bug. Are people still seeing it? It looks fixed to me.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Constructs are fine, I think. I have faced several of them, died a couple times as a result of conflict with the Necro that dropped them, killed several of them, killed the Necro a few times.
Overall, I'd say I am pretty happy with them. It's amusing to watch half a dozen sleeping magic scripters get killed at the Lang bin or the Crossing warmie guild. They are powerful but I do not feel as though they are overpowered if approached properly.
I rather like the player-run invasion aspect. It has changed the DR metagame a bit (people either pay attention a little more or script in privacy, not blatantly in large groups... at least not as much as usual).
Overall, I'd say I am pretty happy with them. It's amusing to watch half a dozen sleeping magic scripters get killed at the Lang bin or the Crossing warmie guild. They are powerful but I do not feel as though they are overpowered if approached properly.
I rather like the player-run invasion aspect. It has changed the DR metagame a bit (people either pay attention a little more or script in privacy, not blatantly in large groups... at least not as much as usual).
They are fine for what they do. Personally I haven't "used" them <i'd been saving coin with my family for a long time as auction usually happened on a night I had to work, so didn't get to attend. I made up for that this year, finally getting a few nice things besides a nice auction goodie. So the Moonies got the goodies this time around <tokka cards, other prediction tools, plus the trader got a nice exterior for the caravan <next years goal - Interior!>.
That being said, I managed to purchase a total of 3 glass orbs.
1. tried out all the verbs after studying it. One of the verbs - busted it.
2. tried out the orb the necro way, on bristle-back critters. Died because I already had a bleeder. who knew? Ooops. :-)
3. is going to sit in my backpack probably a long time. Or maybe on my table in my house. Unless she at some future times goes all-out perverse, its unlikely to get used. Or unless there comes a time when these can be manufactured somehow <crafted?> and not only available at guildfest. Can't really see her using 'em in pvp though, she tries to avoid it in most cases. <most people are either too much higher or too much lower to make it a RP event.>
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
That being said, I managed to purchase a total of 3 glass orbs.
1. tried out all the verbs after studying it. One of the verbs - busted it.
2. tried out the orb the necro way, on bristle-back critters. Died because I already had a bleeder. who knew? Ooops. :-)
3. is going to sit in my backpack probably a long time. Or maybe on my table in my house. Unless she at some future times goes all-out perverse, its unlikely to get used. Or unless there comes a time when these can be manufactured somehow <crafted?> and not only available at guildfest. Can't really see her using 'em in pvp though, she tries to avoid it in most cases. <most people are either too much higher or too much lower to make it a RP event.>
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
They're probably fine as they are. The shrapnel AOE attack isn't really as frequent as some of the logs might seem to paint it, as they're edited. I don't think it needs any significant tweaking. I'd prefer they err on the side of too much action over too little.
Self-healing occasionally seems just a little sporadic or inconsistent, but it's not a big thing at all. I haven't dropped one in a week or two. Maybe I'll play with a few over the weekend.
I'd be leary of AOE potency being nerfed because the glass monsters that are doing massive damage to even good characters are also almost certainly 'performance enhanced'
Self-healing occasionally seems just a little sporadic or inconsistent, but it's not a big thing at all. I haven't dropped one in a week or two. Maybe I'll play with a few over the weekend.
I'd be leary of AOE potency being nerfed because the glass monsters that are doing massive damage to even good characters are also almost certainly 'performance enhanced'
>>I'd be leary of AOE potency being nerfed because the glass monsters that are doing massive damage to even good characters are also almost certainly 'performance enhanced'
Explain?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Explain?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
how exactly do you get a prediction to work on thanatology? every time i've tried it with a MM i can't get it to work. Do any of the prediction tools even work for than? Or do you have to do it on empathy?
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
>>Please let me know if prediction is working on Thanatology. It should not.
I didn't test this and it is totally off the cuff, but since Thanatology and Empathy are in the same skill "slot" (like when I type EXP EMPATHY, I see my Thanatology ranks...) would a prediction for Empath boost my Thanatology?
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I didn't test this and it is totally off the cuff, but since Thanatology and Empathy are in the same skill "slot" (like when I type EXP EMPATHY, I see my Thanatology ranks...) would a prediction for Empath boost my Thanatology?
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
It shouldn't be able to and aligning to Thanatology should be bad for you. If either of those is not the case... whelp I guess it's time to go bug hunting.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
<<'performance enhanced', Thanatology boosters, etc>>
I'm more than a little surprised that these things are allowed to have their potency governed by Thanatology in the first place, instead of just using Targeted Magic. I realize we haven't arrived at 3.0 yet, but what happened to the "TM determines summoning power. Period." thing?
I haven't actually encountered one myself, but it's my understanding that they have some sort of blood draining thing that affects all bleeding individuals in the area. Is this properly thwarted by the Blood Staunching spell?
Just trying to bring up some sanity checks here, as I don't have any first-hand experience regarding how balanced they are or aren't.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
I'm more than a little surprised that these things are allowed to have their potency governed by Thanatology in the first place, instead of just using Targeted Magic. I realize we haven't arrived at 3.0 yet, but what happened to the "TM determines summoning power. Period." thing?
I haven't actually encountered one myself, but it's my understanding that they have some sort of blood draining thing that affects all bleeding individuals in the area. Is this properly thwarted by the Blood Staunching spell?
Just trying to bring up some sanity checks here, as I don't have any first-hand experience regarding how balanced they are or aren't.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
>>I'm more than a little surprised that these things are allowed to have their potency governed by Thanatology in the first place, instead of just using Targeted Magic. I realize we haven't arrived at 3.0 yet, but what happened to the "TM determines summoning power. Period." thing?
Thanatology driving the effectiveness of the construct is unique to just glass constructs. Dirt constructs are TM driven.
That said, Thanatology requires being combat to train and as far as I know it can't be taught, so I'd consider it less of an issue than if the skill check was based on something like PM or Scholarship or whatever.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Thanatology driving the effectiveness of the construct is unique to just glass constructs. Dirt constructs are TM driven.
That said, Thanatology requires being combat to train and as far as I know it can't be taught, so I'd consider it less of an issue than if the skill check was based on something like PM or Scholarship or whatever.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>I'm more than a little surprised that these things are allowed to have their potency governed by Thanatology in the first place, instead of just using Targeted Magic. I realize we haven't arrived at 3.0 yet, but what happened to the "TM determines summoning power. Period." thing?
TM controls summoned pets because TM is the skill the best represents how accurate you are trying to bash something with a controlled creature. And these creatures in turn teach you TM while they bash on things.
The glass constructs are not controlled creatures. They aren't even pets. Thanatology is the skill that best represents the Necromancer's raw ability to create "life", but after that initial moment of creation the construct has no further interaction with the necromancer, aside from possibly crushing the tattered remnants of life from his body.
Given that, I am willing to review the formula in place. It's possible I was too generous (particularly at high skill levels) with the speed at which they scale.
>>Is this properly thwarted by the Blood Staunching spell?
Blood staunching stops regular bleeding. It does not stop a supernatural attack that is forcibly ripping the blood from your wounds.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
TM controls summoned pets because TM is the skill the best represents how accurate you are trying to bash something with a controlled creature. And these creatures in turn teach you TM while they bash on things.
The glass constructs are not controlled creatures. They aren't even pets. Thanatology is the skill that best represents the Necromancer's raw ability to create "life", but after that initial moment of creation the construct has no further interaction with the necromancer, aside from possibly crushing the tattered remnants of life from his body.
Given that, I am willing to review the formula in place. It's possible I was too generous (particularly at high skill levels) with the speed at which they scale.
>>Is this properly thwarted by the Blood Staunching spell?
Blood staunching stops regular bleeding. It does not stop a supernatural attack that is forcibly ripping the blood from your wounds.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I do not believe they are particularly overpowered. I let one duel a zombie I made and had to recall the zombie within a few seconds because it would have destroyed the glass construct, and I have more thanatology than TM. They scale fine IMO. Strange results are likely because of people juicing the construct.
>>Strange results are likely because of people juicing the construct.
The other thing to keep in mind is that many people are getting torn apart by constructs because, as per any heavily populated area, people don't tend to pay attention and are foraging and humming and casting up until their heads are removed.
So, yeah, an unprepared, not fully alert, possibly not armored person is going to get torn up by a glass construct rather quickly.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
The other thing to keep in mind is that many people are getting torn apart by constructs because, as per any heavily populated area, people don't tend to pay attention and are foraging and humming and casting up until their heads are removed.
So, yeah, an unprepared, not fully alert, possibly not armored person is going to get torn up by a glass construct rather quickly.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I have a ton of orbs stocked up from the first time they were revealed and have used them a handful of times. Overall I am impressed with them, they are stylish and give Necromancers exciting ways to be flagrantly evil. For my character it would take a very dire situation for me to actually use one against the populace, so I don't have a lot of experience with them in the PvP sense. In the PvE sense they do not seem to be overly powerful, though I understand that is not exactly the niche they were made for.
>Strange results are likely because of people juicing the construct.
I agree, fixing CJ/Prediction abuse will likely solve most of the problem. I think allowing a Necromancer to boost a Glass Construct via a Trans spell, BUE in this case, is fine.
>Given that, I am willing to review the formula in place. It's possible I was too generous (particularly at high skill levels) with the speed at which they scale.
A review might be needed considering Thanatology will eventually become a Primary Skill in the world of 3.0. Still, I dont want them to be weakened too much. Considering that they are an item that has a limited supply and puts the user at great risk when activated, they should be a bit strong in my opinion.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
>Strange results are likely because of people juicing the construct.
I agree, fixing CJ/Prediction abuse will likely solve most of the problem. I think allowing a Necromancer to boost a Glass Construct via a Trans spell, BUE in this case, is fine.
>Given that, I am willing to review the formula in place. It's possible I was too generous (particularly at high skill levels) with the speed at which they scale.
A review might be needed considering Thanatology will eventually become a Primary Skill in the world of 3.0. Still, I dont want them to be weakened too much. Considering that they are an item that has a limited supply and puts the user at great risk when activated, they should be a bit strong in my opinion.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
I highly doubt constructs scale infinitely, or even much past the zombie TM limit. I doubt you really need to worry about runaway Thanatology ranks in 2013.
I also don't think you really need to do anything about the CJ aspect of it as CJs work for everything else in DR. Why would glass constructs be an exception?
Prediction isn't working as intended. Otherwise they're strong, but that was the point, was it not? The last thing anyone wants (besides people who just want Necromancers and their toys to be harmless or ignored in general) is for glass constructs to be neutered, summonable nuisances.
I also don't think you really need to do anything about the CJ aspect of it as CJs work for everything else in DR. Why would glass constructs be an exception?
Prediction isn't working as intended. Otherwise they're strong, but that was the point, was it not? The last thing anyone wants (besides people who just want Necromancers and their toys to be harmless or ignored in general) is for glass constructs to be neutered, summonable nuisances.
>>I highly doubt constructs scale infinitely, or even much past the zombie TM limit. I doubt you really need to worry about runaway Thanatology ranks in 2013.
I know exactly where they scale to, after all I put the cap there :P. My concern wasn't that, it was how quickly they reach that point.
>>I also don't think you really need to do anything about the CJ aspect of it as CJs work for everything else in DR. Why would glass constructs be an excepti
I personally loath CJs, but otherwise I agree with what you say.
>>Prediction isn't working as intended.
Correct. We're investigating.
>>Otherwise they're strong, but that was the point, was it not?
I want them to be strong, and I think they're very close to where they want to be. I've heard good things from the necromancers and haven't heard massive cries of them being unfair from the other side, so I'm fairly pleased at the moment.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I know exactly where they scale to, after all I put the cap there :P. My concern wasn't that, it was how quickly they reach that point.
>>I also don't think you really need to do anything about the CJ aspect of it as CJs work for everything else in DR. Why would glass constructs be an excepti
I personally loath CJs, but otherwise I agree with what you say.
>>Prediction isn't working as intended.
Correct. We're investigating.
>>Otherwise they're strong, but that was the point, was it not?
I want them to be strong, and I think they're very close to where they want to be. I've heard good things from the necromancers and haven't heard massive cries of them being unfair from the other side, so I'm fairly pleased at the moment.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>>I know exactly where they scale to, after all I put the cap there :P. My concern wasn't that, it was how quickly they reach that point.
Ha. In the first part I was sort of talking to Algothi in regard to his concerns of Thanatology learning at a prime rate in 3.0 potentially creating legions of glass Godzillas.
But I am glad to hear that you seem to agree that they are a success as is and probably don't merit significant tweaking. They're the coolest thing to happen to Necros to come out since guild start. Thank you for adding them.
Ha. In the first part I was sort of talking to Algothi in regard to his concerns of Thanatology learning at a prime rate in 3.0 potentially creating legions of glass Godzillas.
But I am glad to hear that you seem to agree that they are a success as is and probably don't merit significant tweaking. They're the coolest thing to happen to Necros to come out since guild start. Thank you for adding them.
The shrapnel attack seems better, but still a bit inconsistent. I've been pleasantly surprised at their durability.
I have never "juiced" a construct, so I don't know what difference that makes, but their power seems about right to me. I think the people crying about them being unfair would say the same thing about going against a zombie.
Plus, they might be (are probably) talking about a construct way above their level, which makes it moot.
Also, this:
>>people don't tend to pay attention and are foraging and humming and casting up until their heads are removed.
There are some typos still, if you care about that sort of thing...
One of the shards flies towards person, landing a strong hit against her's left leg!
One of the shards flies towards person, landing an extremely heavy hit against his's left leg!
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
I have never "juiced" a construct, so I don't know what difference that makes, but their power seems about right to me. I think the people crying about them being unfair would say the same thing about going against a zombie.
Plus, they might be (are probably) talking about a construct way above their level, which makes it moot.
Also, this:
>>people don't tend to pay attention and are foraging and humming and casting up until their heads are removed.
There are some typos still, if you care about that sort of thing...
One of the shards flies towards person, landing a strong hit against her's left leg!
One of the shards flies towards person, landing an extremely heavy hit against his's left leg!
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
>>One of the shards flies towards person, landing an extremely heavy hit against his's left leg!
Bah. I thought I fixed that. Finally found the source of it. Sneaky typo is sneaky.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Bah. I thought I fixed that. Finally found the source of it. Sneaky typo is sneaky.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I am wondering if these are going to be for sale again any time soon. I had not been back long enough when the fest came around to have 15pl a pop to spend on them. But I would really, really like to purchase a couple for future use!
Oh, I don't wanna lose those easy breezy summer days/ everything going my way/while I'm playin' my guitar/kickin' stones down the N.T.R./Oh, it's a young necromancer's life!
Oh, I don't wanna lose those easy breezy summer days/ everything going my way/while I'm playin' my guitar/kickin' stones down the N.T.R./Oh, it's a young necromancer's life!
IM me at Darthiel if you would be so kind. :)
Hmm, I really should change my IM name and account name sometime soon. They're at about 7 years out of date.
"4.116 Everything that can be thought at all can be thought clearly. Everything that can be said can be said clearly." ~Wittgenstein, 'Tractatus'
Hmm, I really should change my IM name and account name sometime soon. They're at about 7 years out of date.
"4.116 Everything that can be thought at all can be thought clearly. Everything that can be said can be said clearly." ~Wittgenstein, 'Tractatus'
I have no intention of making them for sale 24/7. Will the be in the enchantment system? We'll see -- it's too early to say but it's something I'm interested in. However, if they are expect there to be limitations on how often you can make them.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
However, if they are expect there to be limitations on how often you can make them.
hey, I'd be happy to see them craftable even if they have the same type of limitations that making gweth-smashers currently enjoy :-)
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
hey, I'd be happy to see them craftable even if they have the same type of limitations that making gweth-smashers currently enjoy :-)
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
I'd personally hope that the bottleneck for crafting them would be the way in which enchanting materials are obtained more than a notable timer where you can only make one every X days. Like how the bottleneck for kertig weapons being that kertig isn't easy to find.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
