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I was thinking a few minutes ago about spirit health and the soul. As I understand it, spirit health is the measure of how connected our characters' soul is to its vessel. It makes sense; explains spirit death, resurrection and all that fun stuff.
The Paladin Soul is special because it has independent power, but then, where does that power come from and how is it replenished? Also, why is it that it's completely unaffected by spirit health? By the same token, if the founding members were powerful and clever enough to imbue paladins' souls with this special ability, why didn't they make it a little more sticky? It's at least as easy to yank a paladin's soul as it is any other adventurer's. Seems short-sighted.
There are other things I've never understood, too, like what happens as the Soul's power grows? Does it change perceivably? Why can't we perceive the strength of a fellow paladin's soul? Could a paladin ever reprogram his soul?
I like some of these thoughts, and hope that a GM will run with it to make the Paladin more different then the Cleric.
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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
This is a crosspost that may be relevant in some way to the weird mana perception:
>>What I mean to say is; if a Paladin can fall further than normal mortals, what do they gain in return for such a big risk?
>Are you asking that mechanically or in terms of the story?
>I mean, in terms of the story, there isn't exactly a symmetry of forces at work here. The overall mood is that Elanthia slouches towards an eventual apocalypse and Paladins, in a way they do not yet fully appreciate or realize, get a front row seat to damnation. Perhaps good will triumph in the end and peace and redemption will reign in Elanthia, but Elanthian history -- both ancient and modern -- has been one brush with terror and death after another with no end in sight except The End.
>Or, to perhaps show a little bit of my hand, bad things happen to Paladins because bad things would happen without Paladins.
>If you mean mechanically, we'll talk more about a revised soul system when we're prepared to.
>-Armifer
>"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>>What I mean to say is; if a Paladin can fall further than normal mortals, what do they gain in return for such a big risk?
>Are you asking that mechanically or in terms of the story?
>I mean, in terms of the story, there isn't exactly a symmetry of forces at work here. The overall mood is that Elanthia slouches towards an eventual apocalypse and Paladins, in a way they do not yet fully appreciate or realize, get a front row seat to damnation. Perhaps good will triumph in the end and peace and redemption will reign in Elanthia, but Elanthian history -- both ancient and modern -- has been one brush with terror and death after another with no end in sight except The End.
>Or, to perhaps show a little bit of my hand, bad things happen to Paladins because bad things would happen without Paladins.
>If you mean mechanically, we'll talk more about a revised soul system when we're prepared to.
>-Armifer
>"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
It reads to me like all Paladin souls are interconnected by whatever forces are involved in the sanctification process. Those same forces might somehow be involved in keeping everyone safe. So, we might not just be one of the few guilds not trying to tear the world apart, but the only one trying to keep the world, as we know it, intact. If that's the case, then I guess it raises the question, "What if we fail?"
I'm most definitely reading too much into the post, but that's part of the fun.
I'm most definitely reading too much into the post, but that's part of the fun.
>>This is a crosspost that may be relevant in some way to the weird mana perception
It might relate to what Armifer was saying, but I thought the specks/flecks were introduced to better point out that Paladins could never be "perfect", even when at what they see as perfection. It's an unattainable goal, for better or for worse. It's also possible that the guild itself is based on some DR version of Original Sin that each Paladin can never truly escape, no matter what they do.
For all the guild knows (please note this is entirely my own speculation and a rough one at that), the "bonding" was Syal exploding himself into some kind of soul something-or-other to make all the Paladins that followed him capable of finishing what he started, and while they got great powers that way, Syal did a big no-no when doing that in the first place. In other words, the ultimate sacrifice was a bad thing, even though it was necessary.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
It might relate to what Armifer was saying, but I thought the specks/flecks were introduced to better point out that Paladins could never be "perfect", even when at what they see as perfection. It's an unattainable goal, for better or for worse. It's also possible that the guild itself is based on some DR version of Original Sin that each Paladin can never truly escape, no matter what they do.
For all the guild knows (please note this is entirely my own speculation and a rough one at that), the "bonding" was Syal exploding himself into some kind of soul something-or-other to make all the Paladins that followed him capable of finishing what he started, and while they got great powers that way, Syal did a big no-no when doing that in the first place. In other words, the ultimate sacrifice was a bad thing, even though it was necessary.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>It might relate to what Armifer was saying, but I thought the specks/flecks were introduced to better point out that Paladins could never be "perfect", even when at what they see as perfection
Honestly I was always under the impression, due to where the original event left off, that the Paladins soul is directly involved in imprisoning whatever great evil Syal and the original Paladins fought, and that was the reason for the specs. But maybe Armifer or someone will clarify that.
Honestly I was always under the impression, due to where the original event left off, that the Paladins soul is directly involved in imprisoning whatever great evil Syal and the original Paladins fought, and that was the reason for the specs. But maybe Armifer or someone will clarify that.
>Honestly I was always under the impression, due to where the original event left off, that the Paladins soul is directly involved in imprisoning whatever great evil Syal and the original Paladins fought, and that was the reason for the specs. But maybe Armifer or someone will clarify that.
That was my thought too, but it's an interesting take. Why then would "... bad things happen without paladins?"
I was imagining paladins might be the yin to necromancers' yang. Both guilds are more grounded than clerics' and both think they're doing the right thing when, in reality, we're just tools for beings or a being we don't really understand. An argument could be made that we're not that different ideologically. We're just fighting for different sides we don't fully understand.
That was my thought too, but it's an interesting take. Why then would "... bad things happen without paladins?"
I was imagining paladins might be the yin to necromancers' yang. Both guilds are more grounded than clerics' and both think they're doing the right thing when, in reality, we're just tools for beings or a being we don't really understand. An argument could be made that we're not that different ideologically. We're just fighting for different sides we don't fully understand.
>>That was my thought too, but it's an interesting take. Why then would "... bad things happen without paladins?"
Because it'd get free, I'm guessing. Going further into the assumption, I'm making the guess that each new Paladin is using their divinely touched soul to strengthen this prison, unknowingly(possibly a piece of a demon or some other evil force within themselves, hence the black spots). Once the Paladin's guild is no longer accepting new people, and all the Old Paladins die of old age, nothing is stopping this evil. I'm making the assumption it requires a constant upkeep of active Paladin souls.
Not only would that coincide with the black spots Paladins perceive(it's part of them), but there was talk during the event that Elanthians might actively condemn Paladins if the truth of what went on with the bonding were known. "Hi Guild filled with people who have evil sealed within them."
All just a guess based on what I read though, I never took an active part in the event unfortunately.
Because it'd get free, I'm guessing. Going further into the assumption, I'm making the guess that each new Paladin is using their divinely touched soul to strengthen this prison, unknowingly(possibly a piece of a demon or some other evil force within themselves, hence the black spots). Once the Paladin's guild is no longer accepting new people, and all the Old Paladins die of old age, nothing is stopping this evil. I'm making the assumption it requires a constant upkeep of active Paladin souls.
Not only would that coincide with the black spots Paladins perceive(it's part of them), but there was talk during the event that Elanthians might actively condemn Paladins if the truth of what went on with the bonding were known. "Hi Guild filled with people who have evil sealed within them."
All just a guess based on what I read though, I never took an active part in the event unfortunately.
This was my impression from those events as well as well; that a Paladin's soul is essentially one bar in the cage of a demonic being.
The fact that Raesh has said the place a Paladin is drawing their power from is not a god may be read as slightly ominous.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
The fact that Raesh has said the place a Paladin is drawing their power from is not a god may be read as slightly ominous.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
>>The fact that Raesh has said the place a Paladin is drawing their power from is not a god may be read as slightly ominous.
Empaths, Paladins, what aren't Necromancers anymore.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Empaths, Paladins, what aren't Necromancers anymore.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>I'm making the assumption it requires a constant upkeep of active Paladin souls.
Ahh, but then, why the arbitrary rules, the Code? What's their significance in all this. We have to follow someone's or something's definition of good or the world gets swallowed up? You could say the rules are there as a guide to keep a paladin from falling, or maybe Syal did sell his soul to save everyone and the rules serve as conditions. Armifer seems to be implying that our fate, and possibly everyone else's, is tied to those rules so it seems a paladin's sins are mortal sins in the truest sense.
To be a fly on Syal's wall...
Ahh, but then, why the arbitrary rules, the Code? What's their significance in all this. We have to follow someone's or something's definition of good or the world gets swallowed up? You could say the rules are there as a guide to keep a paladin from falling, or maybe Syal did sell his soul to save everyone and the rules serve as conditions. Armifer seems to be implying that our fate, and possibly everyone else's, is tied to those rules so it seems a paladin's sins are mortal sins in the truest sense.
To be a fly on Syal's wall...
>>Ahh, but then, why the arbitrary rules, the Code? What's their significance in all this.
I'm under the impression the Code was to please the current Therengian Baron insofar as to allow institution of the Guild itself.
On why Paladins need to keep their souls pure, I can only guess its either part of a covenant with whatever Immortal inflamed their spirits(Chadatru?) or there's a natural order to the soul and if they don't keep it clean it becomes impossible to act as a prison. Or both. Some bigger assumptions involved there though.
I'm under the impression the Code was to please the current Therengian Baron insofar as to allow institution of the Guild itself.
On why Paladins need to keep their souls pure, I can only guess its either part of a covenant with whatever Immortal inflamed their spirits(Chadatru?) or there's a natural order to the soul and if they don't keep it clean it becomes impossible to act as a prison. Or both. Some bigger assumptions involved there though.
> The fact that Raesh has said the place a Paladin is drawing their power from is not a god may be read as slightly ominous.
That kind of reminds me of the Church of the Silver Flame from the Eberron setting in D&D. Paladin joins with the force that kept a demon imprisoned and reimprisons it. The Silver Flame now exists as an entity that touches people's lives, as the personality of the Paladin acts as an intercessor between the force and mortals, making its communication comprehensible.
What's not common knowledge (or perhaps know at all to the world, I forget) is that the demon lord is still in there somewhere, and sometimes it comes through the linkage. So sometimes the Speaker (think Pope) is sending messages that are sweetness and light, and sometimes it's messages that are... less awesome. The end result is a church that is very puritanical and hard-line against things that it sees as bad or wrong. Burn the witches sort of thing. In a world with legitimately irredeemable things this works well enough for people to see this as a Good organization, and if you listen to their words, one would think they are. But in the grey areas there is a lot of room for raised eyebrows and "what the heck" moments for people who find out.
- Saragos
That kind of reminds me of the Church of the Silver Flame from the Eberron setting in D&D. Paladin joins with the force that kept a demon imprisoned and reimprisons it. The Silver Flame now exists as an entity that touches people's lives, as the personality of the Paladin acts as an intercessor between the force and mortals, making its communication comprehensible.
What's not common knowledge (or perhaps know at all to the world, I forget) is that the demon lord is still in there somewhere, and sometimes it comes through the linkage. So sometimes the Speaker (think Pope) is sending messages that are sweetness and light, and sometimes it's messages that are... less awesome. The end result is a church that is very puritanical and hard-line against things that it sees as bad or wrong. Burn the witches sort of thing. In a world with legitimately irredeemable things this works well enough for people to see this as a Good organization, and if you listen to their words, one would think they are. But in the grey areas there is a lot of room for raised eyebrows and "what the heck" moments for people who find out.
- Saragos
