Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 05/15/2002 03:49 AM CDT
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Now, this is just a new guy butting in here, but the question of good or evil being discussed in regards to gods seems kind of...off, subtly. Looking at the gods, I don't see Good or Evil as the basis on which a god is identified. For an example, we can take Chadatru, the god that most of us identify with as paladins, and his two aspects.

Rutilor: Defender of the gods, judges, never breaks his word.
Botolf: God of dishonesty and deceit, corruption and bribery
Chadatru: God of Justice, absolutely honest, the great arbitrator

Perhaps a better example is Kertigen.

Divyaush: Grants good favor, points out errors, sends welkin
Zachriedek: Weakness that causes breakage, sends gremlins, bad conditions
Kertigen: Chief patron of crafters, protector of goods

What I'm getting at is that while we might percieve one of the aspects of a god as evil, that's our perception. Looking at what they do, it seems to me that the positive aspects are creative while the negative aspects are destructive. The Neutral or main aspect is neither, but rather acts as a balancer between the two. With Kertigen's aspect Divyaush, breakage would never occur and things would never go sour. In Zach's domain, nothing would ever work. By preventing Zach from acting at times, Kertigen makes things friendly for humans.

Similarly, Botolf's actions would make each man a closed book to the other and keep any crime from being punished...either that, or all the wrong crimes would be punished. Rutilor is always honest, but he's the judge...any judge can be incorrect in his judgement, especially if his position blinds him to a side in a conflict. It's through Chadatru's influence that the bad judgements are ineffective and that the bribery goes sometimes unrewarded.

Good and evil are human terms based on our perception of events. A thing that adds to our domain is considered good. A thing that takes away from us is evil. There are various things that can be added or taken away...this is the definition of an act. Creation and destruction, order and chaos, call it what you will, but the forces that power the universe are inhumane and inhuman....the 13 are our lens to see those forces, not the forces themselves.
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Re: Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 05/15/2002 09:08 AM CDT
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What about Eylhaar, the positive aspect of Urrem'tier? All aspects of Urrem'tier are destructive.

Other than that I agree.

Player of Linras Cauldrath
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Re: Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 05/15/2002 02:44 PM CDT
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The Book of Immortals says that Urrem'tier was the last created and thus has the most void and the least substance. What I'm seein' with him is that you'r right, he is pretty much destructive in all his forms. The book even says that the only benefit to the positive side is that it'll be more polite when it drags you...but even then, Eylhaar is the one who never tries to take a soul before it's time is passed. Destruction is a part of living...our bodies destroy cells on a daily basis and use that to make new cells...the difference between natural distruction and the kind of destruction you get from an infection is the difference between Urrem'tier's aspects.
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Re: Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 05/16/2002 09:56 AM CDT
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Heh. Reminds me of a story on the humor boards.

>Urrem'tier holds up an Elyhaar finger puppet.
>Urrem'tier holds up an Aldauth finger puppet.
>An Elyhaar puppet says, "I am Elyhaar. You will die, but it will be painless."
>An Aldauth puppet says, "I am Aldauth! I will implode your spleen!"

Steel
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Re: Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 05/20/2002 10:01 PM CDT
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>>What about Eylhaar, the positive aspect of Urrem'tier? All aspects of Urrem'tier are destructive.

Death is but the beginning....

A peaceful ending leads to a Better rebirth. Whereas a violent ending tends to disrubt the environment and leads to more dificulty in the "renewal" cycle.
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Re: Surprised this hasn't come up yet... on 07/03/2002 05:13 PM CDT
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An interesting point to philosophize, but remember that it's only a game and the gods don't necessarily have to follow logic or reality. They just have to follow the one true god of the DR universe...game mechanics. But still an interesting point for in character discussion.
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