Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
::sighs::
I know that I'm going to get a hundred or so replies from Paladins of <insert dark aspect here> and from people like Blasword and Lennon (gotta love 'em, though) about balance or there is no evil or what not... but I'm looking for justification for being a straight Light-follower. I mean, stealing, cheating, lying, killing those who have done no wrong... all bad, in my book. And while I'm not exactly going to crusade against those who do this... well, not until I can legitimately deal with Dragon Priest fanatics (The evil ones, Taghz, the evil ones)... I want to find universal truths, truths that I can hold to be self-evident for morality and ethics and being the shining upholders of all that is right in Elanthia (including walking old halfling ladies across the streets) that I feel we should be....
I can justify this irl, given a teleological point of view, but in Elanthia... it's a bit harder... my logic has a few holes that I can see...
So... any ideas?
I have always considered the elimination of the dark aspects and the things they stand for as my goal. Things got really mucked up in that Hodierna thing where some light cleric was "forced" to serve a dark aspect. The chap was duped, used, whatever you wish to call it. If that structure is pressed as what it "must" be that places the pantheon in the most rigid position possible. I can't accept that as a player, my character can't accept it as a theology in the realms. Regardless of all that, being a champion of all that is just is perfectly fine and acceptable. Good will one day completely triumph over evil and on that day the dark aspects will fade away for their purpose for being, what they feed on shall no longer exist.
Daython
Daython
<I mean, stealing, cheating, lying, killing those who have done no wrong... all bad, in my book.>
::recites from his book of dark paladins::
Dark paladins dont do that...thats called taking a dark aspect as an excuse and thus making a mockery of the gods...which would mean a free for all on whoever's arse would do that.
::recites from his book of dark paladins::
Dark paladins dont do that...thats called taking a dark aspect as an excuse and thus making a mockery of the gods...which would mean a free for all on whoever's arse would do that.
<<I know that I'm going to get a hundred or so replies from Paladins of <insert dark aspect here> and from people like Blasword and Lennon (gotta love 'em, though) about balance or there is no evil or what not...>>
Well first let me state that I have never said there is no evil. What I have said is that because someone (be it immortal or person) is dark, it does not necessarily make them evil.
<<I want to find universal truths, truths that I can hold to be self-evident for morality and ethics>>
There is no such thing as "universal truth", all there is is verisimilitude, or the approaching of truth. Truth, morality, ethics is relative to both the time and the population you find yourself in. Its rather funny that you bring this up today as on Wednesday I gave a lecture on this topic to my research methods course. In each time period we have things that we consider moral and immoral (ethical and unethical), which is further mediated by the culture we find ourselves in. Even to this day there are cultures where "an eye for an eye" exists, where killing ones wife for infidelity is allowable, or where killing a female kins husband/ boyfriend for abuse is ok. In our society much of these types of behaviors are immoral, or unelthical, the question is why are we right and they wrong? - In relation to the worship of the Elanthian gods, my perspective is that each immortal is perfectly set up to handle specific types of situations. Now I cannot make a list of what each situation might be. However, when faced with a context Lennon runs through the repitoie of the immortals and decides whose actions would be the most worthwhile in the given instance.
I'm going to leave it at that, mostly because I'm sick and need to go stick my head in a pot of boiling water or something. Also however, the more I write, the more people tend to respond, and I am in no condition to work out all little perspectives on this concept at the moment. So if you don't hear a reply for a while, its not because I've given up, I'll answer in a day or so.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
"Once somethings been approved by the Government, It's no longer immoral." The Reverend Lovejoy
Well first let me state that I have never said there is no evil. What I have said is that because someone (be it immortal or person) is dark, it does not necessarily make them evil.
<<I want to find universal truths, truths that I can hold to be self-evident for morality and ethics>>
There is no such thing as "universal truth", all there is is verisimilitude, or the approaching of truth. Truth, morality, ethics is relative to both the time and the population you find yourself in. Its rather funny that you bring this up today as on Wednesday I gave a lecture on this topic to my research methods course. In each time period we have things that we consider moral and immoral (ethical and unethical), which is further mediated by the culture we find ourselves in. Even to this day there are cultures where "an eye for an eye" exists, where killing ones wife for infidelity is allowable, or where killing a female kins husband/ boyfriend for abuse is ok. In our society much of these types of behaviors are immoral, or unelthical, the question is why are we right and they wrong? - In relation to the worship of the Elanthian gods, my perspective is that each immortal is perfectly set up to handle specific types of situations. Now I cannot make a list of what each situation might be. However, when faced with a context Lennon runs through the repitoie of the immortals and decides whose actions would be the most worthwhile in the given instance.
I'm going to leave it at that, mostly because I'm sick and need to go stick my head in a pot of boiling water or something. Also however, the more I write, the more people tend to respond, and I am in no condition to work out all little perspectives on this concept at the moment. So if you don't hear a reply for a while, its not because I've given up, I'll answer in a day or so.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
"Once somethings been approved by the Government, It's no longer immoral." The Reverend Lovejoy
Gonna head towards Out of Game and In Real Life and Towards Religion/Theology. So I don't blame the moderator for killing this.
Good, Evil? Who decides? Who is right?
Is Islam really evil? Is Christanity really good?
According to a Baptist co-worker if you do not follow their faith you will go to hell. There are NO Innocents, except maybe small children. Doesn't this sound like Bin Laden? Who claims that Islam is good and pure and all others is evil?
I have known people that are Wiccans, I have even known a Satanist, and between most of the "good upstanding" Christians that I know, and these other people, I would actually trust the others more.
What things really boil down to is Ethics. That is what a Paladin stands for. So Paladin X follows x nasty evil dark aspect of x god. As long as the Paladin still follows the creed of the their oaths they can be "good" yet follow "evil".
Religion is one of those things that gets really gray, it isn't a black and white affair. It is nothing but Shades of Gray.
Shandarillli,
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Good, Evil? Who decides? Who is right?
Is Islam really evil? Is Christanity really good?
According to a Baptist co-worker if you do not follow their faith you will go to hell. There are NO Innocents, except maybe small children. Doesn't this sound like Bin Laden? Who claims that Islam is good and pure and all others is evil?
I have known people that are Wiccans, I have even known a Satanist, and between most of the "good upstanding" Christians that I know, and these other people, I would actually trust the others more.
What things really boil down to is Ethics. That is what a Paladin stands for. So Paladin X follows x nasty evil dark aspect of x god. As long as the Paladin still follows the creed of the their oaths they can be "good" yet follow "evil".
Religion is one of those things that gets really gray, it isn't a black and white affair. It is nothing but Shades of Gray.
Shandarillli,
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
>>What things really boil down to is Ethics. That is what a Paladin stands for. So Paladin X follows x nasty evil dark aspect of x god. As long as the Paladin still follows the creed of the their oaths they can be "good" yet follow "evil".
Here's a question I've been trying to ask. What makes something "good" and what makes it evil? It can't be just personal opinion, even if it appears as such.
This isn't like saying what's your favorite color? Mine's "not killing people". What's that you say? Your's is "Never lie?"
No. It's more like a taste issue. I'm willing to bet that over 90% of us do not dislike the taste of vanilla ice cream. In fact, some of us love it. And that's because there's something intrinsically pleasing about the way vanilla ice cream tastes to our taste buds. And in the case of food, food is supposed to taste good and provide us with nutrients. Vanilla ice cream just has something about it that is just right. Now, while this analogy limps a bit, what I'm saying is that there are universal "flavors" to morality. There are those actions that are just right and there are those actions that are just wrong. Vanilla versus coconut shell. Now then, the question is, what are these flavors?
Here's a question I've been trying to ask. What makes something "good" and what makes it evil? It can't be just personal opinion, even if it appears as such.
This isn't like saying what's your favorite color? Mine's "not killing people". What's that you say? Your's is "Never lie?"
No. It's more like a taste issue. I'm willing to bet that over 90% of us do not dislike the taste of vanilla ice cream. In fact, some of us love it. And that's because there's something intrinsically pleasing about the way vanilla ice cream tastes to our taste buds. And in the case of food, food is supposed to taste good and provide us with nutrients. Vanilla ice cream just has something about it that is just right. Now, while this analogy limps a bit, what I'm saying is that there are universal "flavors" to morality. There are those actions that are just right and there are those actions that are just wrong. Vanilla versus coconut shell. Now then, the question is, what are these flavors?
