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Any thoughts? Paladin only or everbody? Sound nifty?
Carnock, the shield wielding and all armor using(against the word of every barbarian elder at the time) barbarian
Paladin only all the way. I can remember years playing Rewyn when i really wanted this (even though he never used shields (they sucked back then ) and used THB (go mattocks and akabos!)). I always thought of a shield bash as not really damage dealing but an incredible way to unbalance a foe and make them go through some rt. A shield bash can be something you sneak into your regular attacks for a boost of offense..
jab...light hit
draw.. strong hit
parry..
jab.. light hit
shield bash ... creature spins around and looks like it just had its nostrils cleaned with fire
draw ...SPLAT!
-Constatine, paladin supporter
jab...light hit
draw.. strong hit
parry..
jab.. light hit
shield bash ... creature spins around and looks like it just had its nostrils cleaned with fire
draw ...SPLAT!
-Constatine, paladin supporter
<<Considering Shield Bash will likely be a brawling move, and special brawling moves have all been guild only, then yes, Shield Bash will likely be paladin only.>>
I still don't like it as a brawling move. A) It negates its use while on horseback. B) Brawling should be done bare-handed...
--Just a Squire
I still don't like it as a brawling move. A) It negates its use while on horseback. B) Brawling should be done bare-handed...
--Just a Squire
<<I don't think bashing something with your shield while on horseback is feasible unless you're fighting something much bigger than you or you're a dwarf on a pony.>>
Well you think incorrectly...There is a scene I remember from a movie (unfortunately I dont remember which one) in which a mounted horseman uses a shield to knock a standing opponant over...Using a shield while on horseback is as feasable as using a weapon or pushing/ punching someone. All of which are accomplished on horseback...
--Just a Squire
Well you think incorrectly...There is a scene I remember from a movie (unfortunately I dont remember which one) in which a mounted horseman uses a shield to knock a standing opponant over...Using a shield while on horseback is as feasable as using a weapon or pushing/ punching someone. All of which are accomplished on horseback...
--Just a Squire
>Well you think incorrectly...There is a scene I remember from a movie (unfortunately I dont remember which one) in which a mounted horseman uses a shield to knock a standing opponant over...Using a shield while on horseback is as feasable as using a weapon or pushing/ punching someone. All of which are accomplished on horseback...
Was it a bash to the head or upper body? Was it a round shield or more of a kite shield? Was it an outward motion or downward?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what you're describing.
Will you receive a penalty to defense after a shield bash?
Nester
Was it a bash to the head or upper body? Was it a round shield or more of a kite shield? Was it an outward motion or downward?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what you're describing.
Will you receive a penalty to defense after a shield bash?
Nester
Shield bash doesn't make any sense to me as a brawling only move. I would like to see it as a normal combat move that can significantly unbalance a foe. Based on shield ranks - NOT brawling ranks.
Paladin only? Nah, should be available to everyone who uses a shield. Paladin's will have an advantage just by having shield primary.
However, it would be nice to have some shields which are better suited to shield bash than others. Of course those shields could be Paladin only (like barb only weapons, etc) - perhaps sold at Paladin shop??
Just my thoughts
Gloryarm
Paladin only? Nah, should be available to everyone who uses a shield. Paladin's will have an advantage just by having shield primary.
However, it would be nice to have some shields which are better suited to shield bash than others. Of course those shields could be Paladin only (like barb only weapons, etc) - perhaps sold at Paladin shop??
Just my thoughts
Gloryarm
We went through shield bash on old boards. For everyones nausea and enjoyment, I will restate my thoughts.
Should:
- be Paladin bonused based on shield skill (+ modifiers every 50 ranks or so)
- work at present hunting level
- be based on shield ranks, that act like weapon ranks (see above)
- work in all combat modes (regular, brawl, mounted)
- teach shield
- be able to charge from pole
- not neccasarily do great damage, but severely unbalance, perhaps stun (even lights)
- be based on some formula of str/stam/refl/agil/shield rank/hindrance/balance
-Slaris
Should:
- be Paladin bonused based on shield skill (+ modifiers every 50 ranks or so)
- work at present hunting level
- be based on shield ranks, that act like weapon ranks (see above)
- work in all combat modes (regular, brawl, mounted)
- teach shield
- be able to charge from pole
- not neccasarily do great damage, but severely unbalance, perhaps stun (even lights)
- be based on some formula of str/stam/refl/agil/shield rank/hindrance/balance
-Slaris
I was skimming the ranger boards the other day and noticed a post from Maelona in relation to creation systems, but seems to apply here as well. In that post, she stated that she didn't like giving direct bonuses to any system based upon guild, but would rather that special abilities be what allows a certain guild to excel at any given thing. With that in mind, I definitely don't want to have to fill a glyph or spell slot just so I can whack something over the head with a shield better than a trader.
Of course, that isn't the only reason I would like to see it paladin only. There are many things that other guilds can do just because they are the only guilds whose focus lies in that direction. Paladins, for instance, can not snipe, (even disregarding soul loss) as they hadn't had the focused stealth training. Any guild, however, currently can attack with a shield in brawling mode. Thus, the limitation is just that paladins would be the only ones able to shield bash with the left hand, as no other guild has a focus on shield use, or spends most of their time moving large masses of metal around quickly and stopping before falling over.
Player of Linras Cauldrath
Of course, that isn't the only reason I would like to see it paladin only. There are many things that other guilds can do just because they are the only guilds whose focus lies in that direction. Paladins, for instance, can not snipe, (even disregarding soul loss) as they hadn't had the focused stealth training. Any guild, however, currently can attack with a shield in brawling mode. Thus, the limitation is just that paladins would be the only ones able to shield bash with the left hand, as no other guild has a focus on shield use, or spends most of their time moving large masses of metal around quickly and stopping before falling over.
Player of Linras Cauldrath
>>Of course, that isn't the only reason I would like to see it paladin only. There are many things that other guilds can do just because they are the only guilds whose focus lies in that direction.
If you're going to argue that way, I'd think Barbarians, probably others, would need included. Shield bash is a combat move, Barbarians specialize in combat, of any type. Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.
Personally, I think it should be all guilds, but give Paladins more options of things to do with it. For example, only allow Paladins to do it from horseback, or give them other special maneuvers.
If you're going to argue that way, I'd think Barbarians, probably others, would need included. Shield bash is a combat move, Barbarians specialize in combat, of any type. Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.
Personally, I think it should be all guilds, but give Paladins more options of things to do with it. For example, only allow Paladins to do it from horseback, or give them other special maneuvers.
>Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.
The shield bash we are asking for is a paladin tatical manuever that would be very well thought out and timed to diistract and/or unbalance our foes while giving us the advantage in position.
A barbarian would rather just blindly charge without much forthought shoulder first relying on his brute strength to overwhelm his foes, and he would get the job done very well this way.
Paladin only.
Gad
The shield bash we are asking for is a paladin tatical manuever that would be very well thought out and timed to diistract and/or unbalance our foes while giving us the advantage in position.
A barbarian would rather just blindly charge without much forthought shoulder first relying on his brute strength to overwhelm his foes, and he would get the job done very well this way.
Paladin only.
Gad
<<If you're going to argue that way, I'd think Barbarians, probably others, would need included. Shield bash is a combat move, Barbarians specialize in combat, of any type. Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.>>
Paladins are also a combat guild, therefore we should have every combat manuver that barbarians have...That sound as rediculous as its supposed too?
--Just a Squire
Paladins are also a combat guild, therefore we should have every combat manuver that barbarians have...That sound as rediculous as its supposed too?
--Just a Squire
>If you're going to argue that way, I'd think Barbarians, probably others, would need included. Shield bash is a combat move, Barbarians specialize in combat, of any type.
Barbarians specialize in weapons use primarily, with a lesser focus on general combat. They are not as focused on using a shield as a paladin is.
>Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.
Yes, and you can already do that. Just hold it in your right hand and brawl. Much more barbarian-like than slipping in a quick shove with your shield between swings.
>Personally, I think it should be all guilds, but give Paladins more options of things to do with it.
The option would be that only paladins could do it with their off hand. Right-handed shield bashing is already available.
Player of Linras Cauldrath - suddenly getting an image of a paladin duel-wielding shields
Barbarians specialize in weapons use primarily, with a lesser focus on general combat. They are not as focused on using a shield as a paladin is.
>Besides, bashing something with a shield seems a rightly barbaric thing to do.
Yes, and you can already do that. Just hold it in your right hand and brawl. Much more barbarian-like than slipping in a quick shove with your shield between swings.
>Personally, I think it should be all guilds, but give Paladins more options of things to do with it.
The option would be that only paladins could do it with their off hand. Right-handed shield bashing is already available.
Player of Linras Cauldrath - suddenly getting an image of a paladin duel-wielding shields
Warrior Mages are the combat magic guild, but every guild with magic has magic that's used in combat.
Shield bash should be useable by everyone. Paladins get a bonus.
Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
The reality is that it makes no sense for only one guild to get a combat maneuever as basic as shield bash, or choke.
Nester
Shield bash should be useable by everyone. Paladins get a bonus.
Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
The reality is that it makes no sense for only one guild to get a combat maneuever as basic as shield bash, or choke.
Nester
And its evolved since then and will probably do it again. There is nothing wrong with a guild getting a combat move only it can use this one has been suggested for about as long as i remember. And now as it might be coming closer to reality everyone jumping at the bit to get in on it. Go make a suggestion in your folders not come in here and try to take a bite outta this one.
Tyden
Tyden
> Shield bash should be useable by everyone. Paladins get a bonus.
> Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
Tm should be usable by everyone? which mages get the bonus?
Dont think this line of thinking works, although I liked it, until TM came to mind.
-Slaris, the evil devil's advocate Slaris
> Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
Tm should be usable by everyone? which mages get the bonus?
Dont think this line of thinking works, although I liked it, until TM came to mind.
-Slaris, the evil devil's advocate Slaris
>And its evolved since then and will probably do it again. There is nothing wrong with a guild getting a combat move only it can use this one has been suggested for about as long as i remember. And now as it might be coming closer to reality everyone jumping at the bit to get in on it. Go make a suggestion in your folders not come in here and try to take a bite outta this one.
Right, but I'm just sharing my opinion of how I think shield bash should work. Let's not go into making suggestions in my own guild's folder <smirk>. I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack me personally though.
My opinion is that the move should be shared amongst guilds, as it doesn't make much sense that only one guild could use such a simple maneuver.
I doubt I would personally use shield bash. My shield skill is too far behind my other defenses to make it really useful to me, but my point of view is still valid, like it or lump it.
Debate my opinion with valid arguments, don't just attack me because you (incorrectly) think I'm trying to pick your guild apart.
Nester
Right, but I'm just sharing my opinion of how I think shield bash should work. Let's not go into making suggestions in my own guild's folder <smirk>. I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack me personally though.
My opinion is that the move should be shared amongst guilds, as it doesn't make much sense that only one guild could use such a simple maneuver.
I doubt I would personally use shield bash. My shield skill is too far behind my other defenses to make it really useful to me, but my point of view is still valid, like it or lump it.
Debate my opinion with valid arguments, don't just attack me because you (incorrectly) think I'm trying to pick your guild apart.
Nester
>Tm should be usable by everyone? which mages get the bonus?
>Dont think this line of thinking works, although I liked it, until TM came to mind.
I don't see how comparing magic with whacking something with a shield really proves anything, but I'll clear up some misconceptions.
I don't want TM. Every other guild can have TM. TM represents the ability for my spells to miss.
Using spells takes thought, study, mental focus, etc.
What does hitting something a shield really require? One arm, one hand and a shield.
It's apples and oranges and it has nothing to do with the debate. Me being a warrior mage doesn't have anything to do with shield bash. I'm not sure why this isn't clear already.
>Dont think this line of thinking works, although I liked it, until TM came to mind.
I don't see how comparing magic with whacking something with a shield really proves anything, but I'll clear up some misconceptions.
I don't want TM. Every other guild can have TM. TM represents the ability for my spells to miss.
Using spells takes thought, study, mental focus, etc.
What does hitting something a shield really require? One arm, one hand and a shield.
It's apples and oranges and it has nothing to do with the debate. Me being a warrior mage doesn't have anything to do with shield bash. I'm not sure why this isn't clear already.
>> The shield bash we are asking for is a paladin tatical manuever that would be very well thought out and timed to diistract and/or unbalance our foes while giving us the advantage in position. A barbarian would rather just blindly charge without much forthought shoulder first relying on his brute strength to overwhelm his foes, and he would get the job done very well this way.
Which is what I was saying. You get the tactical maneuvers; everyone else gets the basics.
>> Yes barbarians are a combat guild no that doesnt mean they get everything another combat guild gets.
No, but why keep a basic ability like that away from everyone? When pommel bash comes out, I'll be one of the ones throwing in my vote for it being all-guild available rather than Barbarian only.
>>And yes it fits very much so in the paladin guild.
Yes it does, so they should get a bonus in its use.
>> Paladins are also a combat guild, therefore we should have every combat manuver that barbarians have...That sound as rediculous as its supposed too?
Not if your only talking basic combat maneuvers like I am.
>> Barbarians specialize in weapons use primarily, with a lesser focus on general combat. They are not as focused on using a shield as a paladin is.
You're thinking skill-sets. While Barbarians are weapons specialists, they are also combat specialists, period >.<
>>Just hold it in your right hand and brawl.
I'm not talking about brawling.
>>Shield bash should be useable by everyone. Paladins get a bonus.
Yes.
>>Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
And yes.
>>Tm should be usable by everyone? which mages get the bonus?
Not the same thing what-so-ever. Shield bash and choke are not actual skills. They are abilities. Bonuses to skills are total bull. However, a guild that specially trains its members in a skill (shows them the secrets of the trade) very well could be better at said ability than other guilds, in general of course.
-Player of Stohmp the Paladin and Chakka, Barbaric Islander
Which is what I was saying. You get the tactical maneuvers; everyone else gets the basics.
>> Yes barbarians are a combat guild no that doesnt mean they get everything another combat guild gets.
No, but why keep a basic ability like that away from everyone? When pommel bash comes out, I'll be one of the ones throwing in my vote for it being all-guild available rather than Barbarian only.
>>And yes it fits very much so in the paladin guild.
Yes it does, so they should get a bonus in its use.
>> Paladins are also a combat guild, therefore we should have every combat manuver that barbarians have...That sound as rediculous as its supposed too?
Not if your only talking basic combat maneuvers like I am.
>> Barbarians specialize in weapons use primarily, with a lesser focus on general combat. They are not as focused on using a shield as a paladin is.
You're thinking skill-sets. While Barbarians are weapons specialists, they are also combat specialists, period >.<
>>Just hold it in your right hand and brawl.
I'm not talking about brawling.
>>Shield bash should be useable by everyone. Paladins get a bonus.
Yes.
>>Choke should be useable by everyone. Barbarians get a bonus.
And yes.
>>Tm should be usable by everyone? which mages get the bonus?
Not the same thing what-so-ever. Shield bash and choke are not actual skills. They are abilities. Bonuses to skills are total bull. However, a guild that specially trains its members in a skill (shows them the secrets of the trade) very well could be better at said ability than other guilds, in general of course.
-Player of Stohmp the Paladin and Chakka, Barbaric Islander
<< suddenly getting an image of a paladin duel-wielding shields
Actually, I do that already using a second croc-skin shield for HT, even the bad ones that make for crappy shields are good frisbees. It never lodges, seems to do pretty good damage for my measly 48 ranks, and wearable (which is an important over BW issues). Since I can brawl with it somewhat too, it certainly a consideration for anyone with 25 strength or over.
Michael, Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux
Actually, I do that already using a second croc-skin shield for HT, even the bad ones that make for crappy shields are good frisbees. It never lodges, seems to do pretty good damage for my measly 48 ranks, and wearable (which is an important over BW issues). Since I can brawl with it somewhat too, it certainly a consideration for anyone with 25 strength or over.
Michael, Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux
Guild bonus such as you describe are going away as they get around to them. As was said they are looking more for guild abilites and this fits. And swinging a sword is a basic manuver. Its knowing when to use it and i see no problem with it being taught to a paladin and basing it off his shield ranks, brawling whatever.
Tyden
PS if i was attacking you personally trust me there would be no doubt
Tyden
PS if i was attacking you personally trust me there would be no doubt
