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Personally I would love this change. It's the exact same reasoning my character always had to explain why folks lived past their regular life spans.
If I had to choose A or B, I'd go with B. It makes a bit more sense to me and I get to keep my character young'ish. I suppose when I get closer to being finished with DR I would like my character to be old, which is the only reason why A was appealing to me as well.
Either way, I think it's a good change.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Armifer
My understanding of what the Gor'Togs aging isn't that they'll live longer just their aging will look different.
Like how you suggested Elves will tend to look always young adult.
While Dwarves will tend to look like grey-breads.
While Gor'Togs will look muscular, untill they are about to kick it, then they kick it...
I hope I described what Camaroon and other Gor'Tog players were pushing for.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
My understanding of what the Gor'Togs aging isn't that they'll live longer just their aging will look different.
Like how you suggested Elves will tend to look always young adult.
While Dwarves will tend to look like grey-breads.
While Gor'Togs will look muscular, untill they are about to kick it, then they kick it...
I hope I described what Camaroon and other Gor'Tog players were pushing for.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Why is it being suggested that Elves and Dwarves be forced to appear even older, the current aging basically makes it seem like they are old for 3/4 of their lives which makes no sense.
Also consider those who lost the lottery with age, when they began the game, as a relative newcomer at that, some have been forced to begin life at mid 60's for an Elf, or equivelent for other races. As few people start the game at premium level and attributes were once randomized, rerolling randomly dozens of times hoping for a better age, when the whole aging system at the time was fairly disjointed was not a viable expectation.
Most people with the exception of a handful who have been here since the beginning do not really want to appear as ancient or close for most of their character's lives. Also Elven lore in pretty much all situations states, Elves are extremely attractive and graceful, and very long-lived, how does that reconcil with them looking like your grandmother?
Characters age whether they are played or not, I think only characters who are actually logged into the game regularly should age, or there should be an option to prevent aging for characters you play rarely.
MY proposal let everyone choose their age within reason. Give premium accounts options to be older or younger than basic, but still give everyone a wide range, then make it static. No newbie wants to play a very mature character a year or two later, and create 70 years of history and backstory anymore than someone rerolling a favorite character name and persona who has played for 10 years wants to be a teenager equivalent.
Please take these angles into consideration in your decisions. (relative newbie, player of mainly Elves)
Also consider those who lost the lottery with age, when they began the game, as a relative newcomer at that, some have been forced to begin life at mid 60's for an Elf, or equivelent for other races. As few people start the game at premium level and attributes were once randomized, rerolling randomly dozens of times hoping for a better age, when the whole aging system at the time was fairly disjointed was not a viable expectation.
Most people with the exception of a handful who have been here since the beginning do not really want to appear as ancient or close for most of their character's lives. Also Elven lore in pretty much all situations states, Elves are extremely attractive and graceful, and very long-lived, how does that reconcil with them looking like your grandmother?
Characters age whether they are played or not, I think only characters who are actually logged into the game regularly should age, or there should be an option to prevent aging for characters you play rarely.
MY proposal let everyone choose their age within reason. Give premium accounts options to be older or younger than basic, but still give everyone a wide range, then make it static. No newbie wants to play a very mature character a year or two later, and create 70 years of history and backstory anymore than someone rerolling a favorite character name and persona who has played for 10 years wants to be a teenager equivalent.
Please take these angles into consideration in your decisions. (relative newbie, player of mainly Elves)
Tarmela,
Elves will generally look young to other races.
Further either option will make elves and all characters in general either stage back aging for a little at each stage (and probably knock you back a stage) or else keep you younger for a whole 100 years.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Elves will generally look young to other races.
Further either option will make elves and all characters in general either stage back aging for a little at each stage (and probably knock you back a stage) or else keep you younger for a whole 100 years.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>TARMELA: Why is it being suggested that Elves and Dwarves be forced to appear even older . . . Also Elven lore in pretty much all situations states, Elves are extremely attractive and graceful, and very long-lived, how does that reconcil with them looking like your grandmother?
I think that what GM Armifer proposed was not that Elves and Dwarves would age more quickly but that when other races looked at them, they would seem younger (Elves) or older (Dwarves) than their chronological age.
Old Elves don't necessarily look like aged humans; they would still look young and graceful. As GM Armifer said, "an Elf appears to age extremely gracefully, never really affected by senescence before his time is up."
However, I agree that the age messaging progresses too quickly for the long-lived races, given their average lifespan of 400-500 years.
>>TARMELA: Characters age whether they are played or not, I think only characters who are actually logged into the game regularly should age, or there should be an option to prevent aging for characters you play rarely.
Ideally, I'd like chronological age to continue to advance regardless of how many age shifts you get or how often you log in. (ICly, characters never leave Elanthia, even when you log out.) I think that age shifts should only alter your apparent age (what others see when they look). In other words, an old character might look young for his age/race if he has undergone a lot of age shifts, but his actual age would not have changed.
This solution would also take care of the immortality conundrum that is caused by characters who get regular age shifts. Even if a character looked young for his age, he would still be subject (ICly anyway) to the maximum lifespan of his race, because his chronological age would be unchanged.
>>TARMELA: MY proposal let everyone choose their age within reason. Give premium accounts options to be older or younger than basic, but still give everyone a wide range, then make it static.
I agree with the idea that all new characters should have some age options at character creation, but perhaps not as many options as Premium characters.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I think that what GM Armifer proposed was not that Elves and Dwarves would age more quickly but that when other races looked at them, they would seem younger (Elves) or older (Dwarves) than their chronological age.
Old Elves don't necessarily look like aged humans; they would still look young and graceful. As GM Armifer said, "an Elf appears to age extremely gracefully, never really affected by senescence before his time is up."
However, I agree that the age messaging progresses too quickly for the long-lived races, given their average lifespan of 400-500 years.
>>TARMELA: Characters age whether they are played or not, I think only characters who are actually logged into the game regularly should age, or there should be an option to prevent aging for characters you play rarely.
Ideally, I'd like chronological age to continue to advance regardless of how many age shifts you get or how often you log in. (ICly, characters never leave Elanthia, even when you log out.) I think that age shifts should only alter your apparent age (what others see when they look). In other words, an old character might look young for his age/race if he has undergone a lot of age shifts, but his actual age would not have changed.
This solution would also take care of the immortality conundrum that is caused by characters who get regular age shifts. Even if a character looked young for his age, he would still be subject (ICly anyway) to the maximum lifespan of his race, because his chronological age would be unchanged.
>>TARMELA: MY proposal let everyone choose their age within reason. Give premium accounts options to be older or younger than basic, but still give everyone a wide range, then make it static.
I agree with the idea that all new characters should have some age options at character creation, but perhaps not as many options as Premium characters.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
>>On the topic of senescence: I think that S'Kra Mur should age more slowly (at least in the eyes of other races), since they are reptiles. (Unlike mammals, reptiles often show few visible signs of old age.)
Funny enough, already planned. S'kra Mur, Prydaen, Elves, and Rakash in Moonskin will become or remain very difficult to ID an age across species. Within species (a S'kra viewing a S'kra), they'll still be accurate.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Funny enough, already planned. S'kra Mur, Prydaen, Elves, and Rakash in Moonskin will become or remain very difficult to ID an age across species. Within species (a S'kra viewing a S'kra), they'll still be accurate.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
<<I think that S'Kra Mur should age more slowly (at least in the eyes of other races), since they are reptiles.>>
Reptilian, yes. Reptiles, I am pretty sure no.
Solomon
Fight me:
http://la-bubbita.mybrute.com
Reptilian, yes. Reptiles, I am pretty sure no.
Solomon
Fight me:
http://la-bubbita.mybrute.com
> 2) Not displaying a visible age is not an option.
Does this mean the line of the description has to be there, or that an option like 'She is of uncertain age' uncertain' is a no-go?
Is more variety in age display (and Aether Cloak eyes - and Resurrection while someone's at it)) something that would have to wait for the next iteration of Features?
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
Does this mean the line of the description has to be there, or that an option like 'She is of uncertain age' uncertain' is a no-go?
Is more variety in age display (and Aether Cloak eyes - and Resurrection while someone's at it)) something that would have to wait for the next iteration of Features?
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
>>Is more variety in age display (and Aether Cloak eyes - and Resurrection while someone's at it)) something that would have to wait for the next iteration of Features?
Somewhat. I'm putting in the framework for a more robust system of visible age modification, but not doing anything with it at this time. The intention of this update is to integrate the new longevity concept + bring sanity to the in-game messaging. Everything else, even excellent ideas, is getting judged right now based on how far astray it leads me from getting the basic task done.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Somewhat. I'm putting in the framework for a more robust system of visible age modification, but not doing anything with it at this time. The intention of this update is to integrate the new longevity concept + bring sanity to the in-game messaging. Everything else, even excellent ideas, is getting judged right now based on how far astray it leads me from getting the basic task done.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>FUTILITY: To nitpick, reptilian literally means "a cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia." So I don't even think "reptilian" is appropriate for them. Their appearance, however, is reptilian and I would agree on that.
A while back, there was a long discussion about S'Kra Mur anatomy. I remember reading a post by a GM (possibly a S'Kra race champion) that stated that S'Kra were physically and reproductively identical to Squamata (scaled reptiles), but the forum seems to have eaten it.
I don't think that referring to S'Kra as "reptiles" (or the adjective "reptilian") is any less accurate than referring to the other races as "mammals" (or "mammalian"), but that's a topic for another thread.
Teilan: PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this.
A while back, there was a long discussion about S'Kra Mur anatomy. I remember reading a post by a GM (possibly a S'Kra race champion) that stated that S'Kra were physically and reproductively identical to Squamata (scaled reptiles), but the forum seems to have eaten it.
I don't think that referring to S'Kra as "reptiles" (or the adjective "reptilian") is any less accurate than referring to the other races as "mammals" (or "mammalian"), but that's a topic for another thread.
Teilan: PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this.
>A while back, there was a long discussion about S'Kra Mur anatomy. I remember reading a post by a GM (possibly a S'Kra race champion) that stated that S'Kra were physically and reproductively identical to Squamata (scaled reptiles), but the forum seems to have eaten it.
It still doesn't address the fact that S'Kra aren't cold-blooded. Vertebrate, yes, viviparous, yes, but not cold-blooded. Which means they aren't, technically, reptilian.
>I don't think that referring to S'Kra as "reptiles" (or the adjective "reptilian") is any less accurate than referring to the other races as "mammals" (or "mammalian"), but that's a topic for another thread.
I find it highly less accurate than, say, "draconian" if you're not stipulating that this is entirely on the basis of appearance, because S'Kra Mur don't truly resemble reptiles biologically because they aren't cold-blooded.
It still doesn't address the fact that S'Kra aren't cold-blooded. Vertebrate, yes, viviparous, yes, but not cold-blooded. Which means they aren't, technically, reptilian.
>I don't think that referring to S'Kra as "reptiles" (or the adjective "reptilian") is any less accurate than referring to the other races as "mammals" (or "mammalian"), but that's a topic for another thread.
I find it highly less accurate than, say, "draconian" if you're not stipulating that this is entirely on the basis of appearance, because S'Kra Mur don't truly resemble reptiles biologically because they aren't cold-blooded.
As a player of an Elf, I say very old Elves should look very old.
However, my opinion on that is irrelevant except in the case of NPCs, unless we are given the one-time option to choose our age under the new system, since no one in prime will ever have an Elf character at an age I would consider very old.
However, my opinion on that is irrelevant except in the case of NPCs, unless we are given the one-time option to choose our age under the new system, since no one in prime will ever have an Elf character at an age I would consider very old.
>>As a player of an Elf, I say very old Elves should look very old.
In the current messaging scheme, an Elf doesn't look older than "mature" to a non-Elf even when pushing 900. My intention is to keep that message as the upper limit.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
In the current messaging scheme, an Elf doesn't look older than "mature" to a non-Elf even when pushing 900. My intention is to keep that message as the upper limit.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I'd prefer 'A' only because I'm still of the mentality that age is a badge of an old account... but that hasn't really been true since Premium age picking.
But I have a hard time imagining why option 'A' would make any sense.
Also I am weak, forgive me;
>To nitpick, reptilian literally means "a cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia."
If you're going to make a nitpick so silly (especially since the original literal sense was something like 'of creeping things'), you may as well suggest Solomon meant that S'kra are, in the figurative sense of 'reptilian,' despicable.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
But I have a hard time imagining why option 'A' would make any sense.
Also I am weak, forgive me;
>To nitpick, reptilian literally means "a cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia."
If you're going to make a nitpick so silly (especially since the original literal sense was something like 'of creeping things'), you may as well suggest Solomon meant that S'kra are, in the figurative sense of 'reptilian,' despicable.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
>>FUTILITY: It still doesn't address the fact that S'Kra aren't cold-blooded.
There is evidence that some reptiles are (or have been) at least partially endothermic, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that as a universal, defining trait of reptiles. Furthermore, biologists are beginning to discard the either-or categories of "warm-blooded" and "cold-blooded" in favor of a more nuanced understanding of thermoregulation.
However, regardless of how you define reptiles, DragonRealms is a fantasy setting and not a reproduction of real-life taxonomy. Most Elanthians (and most players) wouldn't think twice about referring to S'Kra as reptilian. There is actual IC precedent for referring to S'Kra as "reptilian":
>>THE WAYS OF THE S'KRA MUR: "Our own time-honored lore says that Ushnish made intelligent, deadly reptilians to harass and torment the Humans."
Teilan: PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this.
There is evidence that some reptiles are (or have been) at least partially endothermic, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that as a universal, defining trait of reptiles. Furthermore, biologists are beginning to discard the either-or categories of "warm-blooded" and "cold-blooded" in favor of a more nuanced understanding of thermoregulation.
However, regardless of how you define reptiles, DragonRealms is a fantasy setting and not a reproduction of real-life taxonomy. Most Elanthians (and most players) wouldn't think twice about referring to S'Kra as reptilian. There is actual IC precedent for referring to S'Kra as "reptilian":
>>THE WAYS OF THE S'KRA MUR: "Our own time-honored lore says that Ushnish made intelligent, deadly reptilians to harass and torment the Humans."
Teilan: PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this.
I realize this is neither A nor B, but...
For me, I've always conceptually felt that the "burning a favor" deaths were keeping me youthful and vigorous, rather than empathic healing itself.
Would it be possible that a resurrection keeps you at your current age (venerable or otherwise), while a death regresses you to the minimum of your current age bracket?
I'm not talking about going from 40 to 30 to 20 to age 10 with each death. I'm talking about being 45, die back to 40, age from 40 onward, die back to 40 (unless you pass into the next age bracket).
In this way, people are rewarded years of age for "not dying," penalized for dying (unless rezzed), and most of us would end up getting to lock-in what age we choose to represent our character.
Don't think it'll step on too many empath toes, as people will always want to change an age bracket, one way or the other, every now and then...
For me, I've always conceptually felt that the "burning a favor" deaths were keeping me youthful and vigorous, rather than empathic healing itself.
Would it be possible that a resurrection keeps you at your current age (venerable or otherwise), while a death regresses you to the minimum of your current age bracket?
I'm not talking about going from 40 to 30 to 20 to age 10 with each death. I'm talking about being 45, die back to 40, age from 40 onward, die back to 40 (unless you pass into the next age bracket).
In this way, people are rewarded years of age for "not dying," penalized for dying (unless rezzed), and most of us would end up getting to lock-in what age we choose to represent our character.
Don't think it'll step on too many empath toes, as people will always want to change an age bracket, one way or the other, every now and then...
Why would the body you get from departing be younger than the body you lost? It's healthier, sure, but still just a copy of the previous one.
Additionally, I'm against any ways to change a character's actual age (the number, not the description line). Resurrection, empathic healing, empathic shifts - none of these should change a character's date of birth or their actual age.
This is all a bit off topic, though.
Veralika: "dunt start Fly ya know all ya need is ask who yer mom "
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
Additionally, I'm against any ways to change a character's actual age (the number, not the description line). Resurrection, empathic healing, empathic shifts - none of these should change a character's date of birth or their actual age.
This is all a bit off topic, though.
Veralika: "dunt start Fly ya know all ya need is ask who yer mom "
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
Final verdict is that I'll be investing the time in letting you choose either a normal life cycle or Empathic Longevity life cycle for your character. You'll be able to toggle between them once every RL calender year (it's meant to be a permanent choice, but it's a "permanent" choice you can have second thoughts about later).
The rewrite is being conducted such that additional life cycle options can be written and inserted into the system with relative ease, if another GM is ever feels the need and is insane enough to like doing this.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The rewrite is being conducted such that additional life cycle options can be written and inserted into the system with relative ease, if another GM is ever feels the need and is insane enough to like doing this.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Personally I'd like the different levels to be reasonably possible to reach, so I guess tack it on to the end. Also I'd like to suggest a different form of shifting, perhaps add it so they can shift the message and not the age. Ie go shift from very young to young
~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-
~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-
>The rewrite is being conducted such that additional life cycle options can be written and inserted into the system with relative ease, if another GM is ever feels the need and is insane enough to like doing this.
Is this is going to support the ability to have your apparent age (both racial and not) be separate from your actual number of years?
So down the line, if shift age is made more reasonable, we won't be changing our character's birthdays and all that.
-pete
Is this is going to support the ability to have your apparent age (both racial and not) be separate from your actual number of years?
So down the line, if shift age is made more reasonable, we won't be changing our character's birthdays and all that.
-pete
>>Is this is going to support the ability to have your apparent age (both racial and not) be separate from your actual number of years?
That's a slightly different thing. When I'm talking about 'additional life cycles' I mean additional formulas to decide what message to give you when you're X years old.
However, yes, I am including the frame work for doing visual age modification the right way. Updating Shift is not one of my goals, but the support for better Empathic and Necromantic age modification will be there for another day.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
That's a slightly different thing. When I'm talking about 'additional life cycles' I mean additional formulas to decide what message to give you when you're X years old.
However, yes, I am including the frame work for doing visual age modification the right way. Updating Shift is not one of my goals, but the support for better Empathic and Necromantic age modification will be there for another day.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Allowing people to rechoose their age or even shift their age would be terrible. Even though I know shifting is possible but very small amounts. I personally don't care for the ability to choose age. Everyone should start at the same age when they begin. Like it used to be. Its the only way you can really tell how long someone has been around.
>>MCMILLANR: My main question is can our character die of old age? I'm a 59 year old human that started at 18 when that was the only age available. Sense I'm venerable which I think is the last cycle for humans.
>>DR-ARMIFER: Our policy on this remains the same. ICly, people die of old age. But as a game consideration, we are never going to permanently kill off your character because his clock ran out.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
>>DR-ARMIFER: Our policy on this remains the same. ICly, people die of old age. But as a game consideration, we are never going to permanently kill off your character because his clock ran out.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
>>I'm venerable which I think is the last cycle for humans.
Not even close: venerable is right in the middle of the age ranges (#6 of 11).
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Not even close: venerable is right in the middle of the age ranges (#6 of 11).
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>When I first started I used to think the oldest characters were probably the strongest since they've been around longer. I quickly changed that opinion.
Yea, some of us are really lazy.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Yea, some of us are really lazy.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
i can confirm that, as i have some s'kra in plat that are "wizened", and s'kra at present follow the same type of "aging" as smoothsk... humans, so, there is no detremintal issues to playing an old coot.
Out of curiosity, did you make everyone stop trying to kill Lyras so you could go try to kill Book?
Out of curiosity, did you make everyone stop trying to kill Lyras so you could go try to kill Book?
>>Wow. Is this going to change? When I think venerable I think really old.
No. I'm going out of my way to not change the age ranges except for one case where I think the previous setup was complete gibberish.
They could definitely be cleaned up more and made more intuitive, but that's a project for another day.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
No. I'm going out of my way to not change the age ranges except for one case where I think the previous setup was complete gibberish.
They could definitely be cleaned up more and made more intuitive, but that's a project for another day.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
