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<<but to minimize that to then say the difference is like Democrats and Republicans is extreme and ignores some critical pieces of the race's backstory ("You think Xin'Alaudas is WHAT?").
I concur.
--Vyraka--
I appreciate your candidness Armifer. Is ~20 generations is definitely enough to create a cultural identity.
I believe ~20 generations might be a little short to create an entirely separate race from the Gorbesh. Perhaps some genetic predispositions(cleft chin? high cheekbones?), but still the same race. If you were to put a Kaldar in a Gorbesh outfit, I would believe they would be practically indistinguishable.
I have been looking over books looking for more information. Most recently I reread the book 'Remembrance' which was written by Kaldar Elder Duvius. I encourage all who have a stake in the outcome to read it in full.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Book:HdR
Note, this is around the time when the Kaldar were first separated from the Gorbesh. Circumstances may have changed, but I believe it shows the original intent of the Kaldar.
I few quotes I found quite interesting:
"Embracing that legacy, we of the West now call ourselves 'the Kaldar,' for even though we are still Gorbesh, our philosophical outlook on life has changed."
"We will always be Gorbesh, but now we commune with Nature, quite unlike the remainder of our people. Thus we have taken our new name, not to anger our brethren to the East, but to distinguish our identity, and the path we have chosen to follow. Nature is our Temple, and we reach out to the Gods through our worship therein. The Gorbesh Gods remain our Gods, their teachings are our heritage, and may the Empire forever prosper under their eternal gaze."
"We Gorbesh have spent far too many centuries forgetting our roots, and it is time we remember who we once were. So it is that we Kaldar are willing to make the attempt, both for the glory of our race, and for the glory of the Empire. Hopefully, the dream will be achieved, and the mighty Alaudian Empire shall reign forever, Kaldar and Gorbesh together."
I believe ~20 generations might be a little short to create an entirely separate race from the Gorbesh. Perhaps some genetic predispositions(cleft chin? high cheekbones?), but still the same race. If you were to put a Kaldar in a Gorbesh outfit, I would believe they would be practically indistinguishable.
I have been looking over books looking for more information. Most recently I reread the book 'Remembrance' which was written by Kaldar Elder Duvius. I encourage all who have a stake in the outcome to read it in full.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Book:HdR
Note, this is around the time when the Kaldar were first separated from the Gorbesh. Circumstances may have changed, but I believe it shows the original intent of the Kaldar.
I few quotes I found quite interesting:
"Embracing that legacy, we of the West now call ourselves 'the Kaldar,' for even though we are still Gorbesh, our philosophical outlook on life has changed."
"We will always be Gorbesh, but now we commune with Nature, quite unlike the remainder of our people. Thus we have taken our new name, not to anger our brethren to the East, but to distinguish our identity, and the path we have chosen to follow. Nature is our Temple, and we reach out to the Gods through our worship therein. The Gorbesh Gods remain our Gods, their teachings are our heritage, and may the Empire forever prosper under their eternal gaze."
"We Gorbesh have spent far too many centuries forgetting our roots, and it is time we remember who we once were. So it is that we Kaldar are willing to make the attempt, both for the glory of our race, and for the glory of the Empire. Hopefully, the dream will be achieved, and the mighty Alaudian Empire shall reign forever, Kaldar and Gorbesh together."
Not advocating in any particular direction here, just a couple things I thought I'd toss out...
>>The reality is that we will never see a playable Gorbesh race in DragonRealms.*
>>*Disclaimer: Not saying that it isn't possible, because it is. Simply, it's not worth the manpower. If I had to choose between starting over with a new with exactly the same character penalties and bonuses, I'd say gimme a new Lore System
They figured out a way, a couple years back, to allow folks playing GS4 to choose from any of a bazillion different subrace options for each race. Though I think it'd be more than a simple grab and patch job, it's certainly reasonable to think that in a few years we could see the option for players to choose to be Sand Elves or Gorbesh and have that show up in their description, wouldn't require any kind of reroll, etc. They're already working on updating the feature system and whatnot, so it's not as though it'd cost any additional manpower to do it (in the sense that people would have to be pulled off of other jobs).
>>Gorbesh have plenty of defining, I think it is the Kaldar that need more.
And I wanted to say I also agree with this. I don't play a Kaldar or Gorbesh character anymore, but I still enjoy their lore and watching new stuff released for them. Thus far I think the actual Kaldar culture itself has gotten the short end of the stick, and I'd like to see more of just what they're about.
Denstimar Dustyfoot
Idon Raider - www.idonraiders.com
"Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?" - Walt Whitman
>>The reality is that we will never see a playable Gorbesh race in DragonRealms.*
>>*Disclaimer: Not saying that it isn't possible, because it is. Simply, it's not worth the manpower. If I had to choose between starting over with a new with exactly the same character penalties and bonuses, I'd say gimme a new Lore System
They figured out a way, a couple years back, to allow folks playing GS4 to choose from any of a bazillion different subrace options for each race. Though I think it'd be more than a simple grab and patch job, it's certainly reasonable to think that in a few years we could see the option for players to choose to be Sand Elves or Gorbesh and have that show up in their description, wouldn't require any kind of reroll, etc. They're already working on updating the feature system and whatnot, so it's not as though it'd cost any additional manpower to do it (in the sense that people would have to be pulled off of other jobs).
>>Gorbesh have plenty of defining, I think it is the Kaldar that need more.
And I wanted to say I also agree with this. I don't play a Kaldar or Gorbesh character anymore, but I still enjoy their lore and watching new stuff released for them. Thus far I think the actual Kaldar culture itself has gotten the short end of the stick, and I'd like to see more of just what they're about.
Denstimar Dustyfoot
Idon Raider - www.idonraiders.com
"Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?" - Walt Whitman
It would be interesting to have a racial title of "Gorbesh". Similar to Arimer's American example, maybe players who define their Kaldars as Gorbesh could get away as being more like Gorbesh-American erm I mean Gorbesh-Kaldar, hah.
ICly, I've always roleplayed Pureblade's race being recognized as Kaldar based on the fact that everyone in Kermoria is more used to Kaldars being around, and a Gorbesh still in the area is normally considered less than likely. Heck, the current "generation" of commoners/unknowns/background-noise-people might not even remember the Gorbesh War.
ICly, I've always roleplayed Pureblade's race being recognized as Kaldar based on the fact that everyone in Kermoria is more used to Kaldars being around, and a Gorbesh still in the area is normally considered less than likely. Heck, the current "generation" of commoners/unknowns/background-noise-people might not even remember the Gorbesh War.
I think racial titles would be a excellent way to facilitate interactions with others. It would help define affiliation.
For example, I would treat a bone elf and a wood elf very very differently.
I think the GS4 sub-race system mentioned earlier would be an excellent addition all around.
For example, I would treat a bone elf and a wood elf very very differently.
I think the GS4 sub-race system mentioned earlier would be an excellent addition all around.
I have noticed that while I prefer Earth tones for my warmage, necessity has given me a horrid assortment of items. He does wear a kilt, and I have been looking for one a bit better than the white and blue fest Kilt he is wearing now, and a fitted leather vest as well as some buckskin boots. Armor wise, he is a bit more flashy almost gorbesh, but then again this comes from being raised in Crossing. Wearing Heavy plate and heavy chain, along with the large shield he has, he is more Gorbesh in that aspect than anything else, but he has discovered the joys of offhand weapons, and a battle axe. Over the Armor and kilt he wears a Black Mages robe, so everything else is covered.
My own personal choices, mainly due to the backstory I've created for Maulem, which has sprung out of some personal observations of my own, is that for certain segment(s) of the Kaldaran tribes, Mammoths were quite important. Most of my clothing has thusly become, over the years and through uncounted hours of GM help with various alterations, mammoth related.
My belief is one that there were and hopefully continue to be today segments of the kaldaran peoples that still clung to the Luethran ways a bit more than others did, and as such were nomadic in nature. Part of my back story includes Maulem's interaction with one of these tribes, a mammoth based tribe if you will, which was encountered by him on the journey up from Albaria to Kermoria.
Little if any of the "nomadic" theory has ever been proven, and probably is only just a pipe dream of my own mind based upon what I've read about in the timelines and have learned from other folks more knowledgeable about these things than I, like Vyraka and Jerecis, who seem to be among the last bastions carrying on the knowledge gathered by the old HoK a lot better than I ever could have.
Hope to see you all at the meeting. Oh, and if I haven't mentioned it lately, I <3 Vyraka. ;)
My belief is one that there were and hopefully continue to be today segments of the kaldaran peoples that still clung to the Luethran ways a bit more than others did, and as such were nomadic in nature. Part of my back story includes Maulem's interaction with one of these tribes, a mammoth based tribe if you will, which was encountered by him on the journey up from Albaria to Kermoria.
Little if any of the "nomadic" theory has ever been proven, and probably is only just a pipe dream of my own mind based upon what I've read about in the timelines and have learned from other folks more knowledgeable about these things than I, like Vyraka and Jerecis, who seem to be among the last bastions carrying on the knowledge gathered by the old HoK a lot better than I ever could have.
Hope to see you all at the meeting. Oh, and if I haven't mentioned it lately, I <3 Vyraka. ;)
As far as the nomadic idea I could definately see certaqin Kaldar tribes as being nomadic, seeing as most of Albaria is quite cold I get an ice-age feel to it. Freezing, dy tundra would be a fairly large part of the ecosystem and I imagine there would be a few tribes living there, almost mandating a nomadic culture to follow packs of animals and solitary mammoths for food, as well as new forage for Kaldar and their animals once an area has been stripped clean. Personally I use a lot of hiro bear and meshor fox skins in my gear, since I saw Jere serving in the western portion of the Empire, near the Kaldaran forests where the climate would still be cold but quite a bit wetter and more conducive to those types of animals. (Although I'm sure that meshor foxes could live just about anywhere)
Once again really lookin' forward to seeing everyone tomorrow night, even if my "Sovereign Albarian Soil" sign that I wanted Darix to do never got finished. (I thought it'd be a lot of fun to drop at meetings, as well as other random places, like the Crossing bank or the crate in Haven, heh)
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
And what Maulem, Vyraka gets love but none for your fellow male Albarians? I see how it is
Once again really lookin' forward to seeing everyone tomorrow night, even if my "Sovereign Albarian Soil" sign that I wanted Darix to do never got finished. (I thought it'd be a lot of fun to drop at meetings, as well as other random places, like the Crossing bank or the crate in Haven, heh)
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
And what Maulem, Vyraka gets love but none for your fellow male Albarians? I see how it is
Although I agree with everyone that Kaldaran clothing should be "naturalistic" in keeping with their nomatic, cold climate homeland. I do hope that we won't be pigeon holed into just leathers, fur, bone and simple gems. Many nomadic tribes used brightly colored cloth,intricate embroidery and finely wrought gold/brass/silver jewelry in their attire. Maybe we can think a wee bit outside the box. Some of us Kaldars are a bit more cosmopolitan now that we've migrated outside of our homeland.
I adored Belladzia's hint about ice-silk. I'm still trying to wipe the drool off my cloak.
Mellicent
I adored Belladzia's hint about ice-silk. I'm still trying to wipe the drool off my cloak.
Mellicent
I hadn't heard of a Gnome Merchant in the mix. I'm not sure if this is old news or whatnot, but out next to the Market Tent on Aesry I saw a brightly painted wagon that I had never noticed before that I was far too tall to enter. Seemed out of place enough for me to notice, but I get into town much.
Just thought I'd pass this along in case it's significant.
= Father Aristron Karanea =
Just thought I'd pass this along in case it's significant.
= Father Aristron Karanea =
No word on the Kaldar merchant yet Mellicent, hopefully Belladzia will give us some warning once her friend has made it through the pass. If I see or hear anything I'll be sure to let everyone know though.
Oh and on a different note entirely, if anyone has any information about the Meumos prophecies please let me know, been looking for anything specific but so far nothing other than the brief mention that they exist and they include a few stories, such as the fight between Xosiurion and Xin'Alaudus or the Ilaehl.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Oh and on a different note entirely, if anyone has any information about the Meumos prophecies please let me know, been looking for anything specific but so far nothing other than the brief mention that they exist and they include a few stories, such as the fight between Xosiurion and Xin'Alaudus or the Ilaehl.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Merchant? We have a merchant coming? Yay! Why am I always the last to know this stuff? Oh wait...
Now that I think about it I DID see a caravan parked in Kukalakai's Grove near Shard's Great Tower. I didn't go in though so I couldn't tell you if its THAT merchant or not. They didn't look like they were set up to stay in one place too long so they might be gone by now.
GM Belladzia
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
Now that I think about it I DID see a caravan parked in Kukalakai's Grove near Shard's Great Tower. I didn't go in though so I couldn't tell you if its THAT merchant or not. They didn't look like they were set up to stay in one place too long so they might be gone by now.
GM Belladzia
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
THANK YOU BELLADZIA!!!!!
Ok now that I've got it out of my system, I really could sit here and talk about the stuff in the caravan all day but I'll shorten it to this. This is what I've (and I know a of others too) been waiting for for years. Full sets of Gorbesh pantheon items, Albarian lace and icesilk. Plus an Outrider's cloak! It was really great of her to stay around to do some alterations for those of us who showed up early. If anyone needs anything from here and can't get to Shard please IM me at JSThrasher and I can grab whatever anyone needs, I should be down here for a while, I just don't see Jere leaving as long as the caravan's here.
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the meeting next month. And thanks again Belladzia.. this is just great.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Ok now that I've got it out of my system, I really could sit here and talk about the stuff in the caravan all day but I'll shorten it to this. This is what I've (and I know a of others too) been waiting for for years. Full sets of Gorbesh pantheon items, Albarian lace and icesilk. Plus an Outrider's cloak! It was really great of her to stay around to do some alterations for those of us who showed up early. If anyone needs anything from here and can't get to Shard please IM me at JSThrasher and I can grab whatever anyone needs, I should be down here for a while, I just don't see Jere leaving as long as the caravan's here.
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the meeting next month. And thanks again Belladzia.. this is just great.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
First of all....thank you, thank you, thank you!!! for the wonderful items in the Kaldar Karavan. The icesilk is amazing, love the ruven (skirts) and the containers in the first room are awesome. I can't wait to see if any other Kaldar merchants brave the mountain crossing and sell their wares.
The operative description of icesilk seems to be....The silvery white warp threads glitter icily against the (garment color) metallic threads used in the weft of the loom.
Here are a few descriptions of icesilk...one from a gown and one from a sochi (cloak)
>tap my gown
You tap a garnet icesilk gown with a beaded halter neckline that you are holding.
>exam my gown
Deep red garnets are woven into the elegant tiger lily pattern of the Albarian lace panel that gracefully joins the wide icesilk choker to the scooped neckline. Designed to flair slightly at the knee, the silvery white warp threads of this form-fitting gown glitter icily against the rich, wine-red metallic threads used in the weft of the loom. A small tag is sewn into the lining.
>read tag
A small tag reads:
"Design by Unorina Isderuos."
>tap my sochi
You tap a gleaming sapphire icesilk sochi adorned with a ice-white diamond that you are holding.
>exam my sochi
Sewn from a generous rectangle of lustrous silk, the cloak is tailored to fall in a straight line to the mid-calf. A short, semi-circular over-cape drapes loosely about the shoulders when not drawn into a deeply cowled hood. The silvery white warp threads glitter icily against the indigo-hued metallic threads used in the weft of the loom. A simple white gold setting displays the flawless gemstone to great advantage. A small tag is sewn into the lining.
>read tag
A small tag reads:
"Design by Unorina Isderuos."
Mellicent
The operative description of icesilk seems to be....The silvery white warp threads glitter icily against the (garment color) metallic threads used in the weft of the loom.
Here are a few descriptions of icesilk...one from a gown and one from a sochi (cloak)
>tap my gown
You tap a garnet icesilk gown with a beaded halter neckline that you are holding.
>exam my gown
Deep red garnets are woven into the elegant tiger lily pattern of the Albarian lace panel that gracefully joins the wide icesilk choker to the scooped neckline. Designed to flair slightly at the knee, the silvery white warp threads of this form-fitting gown glitter icily against the rich, wine-red metallic threads used in the weft of the loom. A small tag is sewn into the lining.
>read tag
A small tag reads:
"Design by Unorina Isderuos."
>tap my sochi
You tap a gleaming sapphire icesilk sochi adorned with a ice-white diamond that you are holding.
>exam my sochi
Sewn from a generous rectangle of lustrous silk, the cloak is tailored to fall in a straight line to the mid-calf. A short, semi-circular over-cape drapes loosely about the shoulders when not drawn into a deeply cowled hood. The silvery white warp threads glitter icily against the indigo-hued metallic threads used in the weft of the loom. A simple white gold setting displays the flawless gemstone to great advantage. A small tag is sewn into the lining.
>read tag
A small tag reads:
"Design by Unorina Isderuos."
Mellicent
The Wagon is listed on the elanthipedia, but as far as I can tell now, there is no listing yet, without actually going back into the wagon, there are carving knives based on the Pantheon, as well as backpacks, Satchels, knapsacks, and cases with the Pantheon, as well as Gorbesh history. Cambrinth Items...Personally I will be picking up the Cambrinth gnome....I wonder if it can be shoulder worn...as well as a wrist band and a ring, both bearing the fist, as well as an ankle cuff. There are Sochi's and them Skirt things...as well as pants and shirts, blouses and some nice Ice silk Sochi's (be prepared to spend coin...75 plats easy on the Ice Silk Sochi's.) all in all I am so very...Amazed and impressed and appreciative of that merchant, I dont care if we get another one...would be nice...would like a War Sword, but if we dont get another, Thank you so much!
>>The Wagon is listed on the elanthipedia, but as far as I can tell now, there is no listing yet
Suffice to say the wagon was cool enough for me to:
1) log in for the first time in two or so weeks (been busy going crazy over work GO ECONOMY YAY!)
2) fill out that page. Enjoy!
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Kaldar_Karavan
Suffice to say the wagon was cool enough for me to:
1) log in for the first time in two or so weeks (been busy going crazy over work GO ECONOMY YAY!)
2) fill out that page. Enjoy!
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Kaldar_Karavan
<<a gleaming sapphire icesilk sochi adorned with a ice-white diamond
Mellicent - will you be purchasing any extras of those? I know that I will wiped out after buying all the other things, but I still will want one - even if I have to wait a month or two to get it (IE earn more coin).
Thank you again, Belladazia!
--Vyraka--
Mellicent - will you be purchasing any extras of those? I know that I will wiped out after buying all the other things, but I still will want one - even if I have to wait a month or two to get it (IE earn more coin).
Thank you again, Belladazia!
--Vyraka--
Alright, well looks and worn spots are up on Elanthipedia for the first room.. I'm updating the Dressing room as I'm posting this. Marvok- as far as the sheath for Maulem, he, Tercsyn, Mellicent, Sylvaran and I were all here yesterday just after the place opened so I think he's stocked up fairly well, although I believe a mammoth thigh sheath will be a pretty big seller as far as resale from the caravan. Have to say it's been really great getting to meet some Kaldar and Gnomes that I never had the chance to before this place opened up, and I'm really looking forward to whatever happens to finish crossing the 'Hand next.
Thanks again Belladzia, you've made a lot of very happy Albarian players this weekend!
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Thanks again Belladzia, you've made a lot of very happy Albarian players this weekend!
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Thank you so much for this tent, I can finally have items symbolizing my god. One question though, I thought the clenched fist is the symbol of the Gorbesh empire, why would gnomes and Kaldars (and I am not talking about you all that play Gorbesh) want to have an items symbolizing those who they left and traveled to another continent to get away from?
Heh. I picked up several things at the wagon myself, including said sheath. Now Nasenedra, my scimitar, has a proper home. Thanks for thinkin of me though!
And thanks to Lady Unorina for lending her skills to a few of us there that first day. With the "fixing" of my gloves, my primary armor set is now complete.
a buckler sable bearing a mammoth eisen affronte
a heavy mail helm fashioned into the visage of a fearsome war mammoth
a heavy steel mail shirt cinched with mammoth hide straps
some heavy steel mail greaves entwined with dangling strips of mammoth fur
some steel-grey mail gloves thickly lined in shaggy mammoth fur.
~Maulem Akavame, Death Dealer in training
And thanks to Lady Unorina for lending her skills to a few of us there that first day. With the "fixing" of my gloves, my primary armor set is now complete.
a buckler sable bearing a mammoth eisen affronte
a heavy mail helm fashioned into the visage of a fearsome war mammoth
a heavy steel mail shirt cinched with mammoth hide straps
some heavy steel mail greaves entwined with dangling strips of mammoth fur
some steel-grey mail gloves thickly lined in shaggy mammoth fur.
~Maulem Akavame, Death Dealer in training
In answering the question concerning why Kaldar would want something(s) with silver fists...
Maulem does so to honor his father, who was a conscript into the Gorbesh Army and worked his way up to become a Commander with the army. I could tell a bit more about Maulem's reasons for making the journey from Albaria, but that might "let the cat out of the bag" so to speak for my upcoming backstory lecture at (hopefully if I can log in this time! heh) the next Albarian gathering.
~Maulem, Death Dealer in training
Maulem does so to honor his father, who was a conscript into the Gorbesh Army and worked his way up to become a Commander with the army. I could tell a bit more about Maulem's reasons for making the journey from Albaria, but that might "let the cat out of the bag" so to speak for my upcoming backstory lecture at (hopefully if I can log in this time! heh) the next Albarian gathering.
~Maulem, Death Dealer in training
I've renamed the page on the wiki 1) to be more accurate and 2) because Karavan annoyed the hell out of me :p
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Albarian_Imports
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Albarian_Imports
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
