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I've been thinking lately about the Gorbesh gods, and our discussion of whether or not they should provide favors. You may or may not recall that my position was (ant still is) that they should not, simply because they are a completely different kind of god. I've been RPing my character that way for some time now, and have managed to get by without earning a single favor.
But, you know, I have to admit: It does suck sometimes. I was recently fighting in an out of the way place, and only after I died did I realize that I'd have to climb back to my grave while still injured from the death scars -- I wasn't sure I'd make it. It's just nasty. Items are one of the few things you can work toward in the game, and the prospect of losing them permanently is just not pleasant.
So, I'd like to suggest that perhaps death for the favorless, or death for those who worship the Gorbesh gods, should maybe be just a little different. I wouldn't mind taking more wounds (or greater sting) in exchange for keeping items, or some system of getting back to items. In other words, death should still hurt, but maybe not be item-lossy.
I don't have high expectations for this, but just thought I'd give some feedback based on my experience.
> death for those who worship the Gorbesh gods, should maybe be just a little different.
Mechanically, showing you worship Gorbesh gods would be accomplished by:
1. Proclaiming worship of them while getting favors from one of the Kermorian pantheon
2. Asking for implementation of favors from Gorbesh gods
You're purposefully refusing something that doesn't have to impact your RP, and then saying it's a hindrance. It's not like someone is going to run around screaming "OMG they got a favor from Meraud but say they worship Tieheq lulz!" Just get a favor from whichever, and proclaim you still worship whichever Alaudian you feel like. Just because you can't mechanically do it doesn't mean you can't RP it.
Mechanically, showing you worship Gorbesh gods would be accomplished by:
1. Proclaiming worship of them while getting favors from one of the Kermorian pantheon
2. Asking for implementation of favors from Gorbesh gods
You're purposefully refusing something that doesn't have to impact your RP, and then saying it's a hindrance. It's not like someone is going to run around screaming "OMG they got a favor from Meraud but say they worship Tieheq lulz!" Just get a favor from whichever, and proclaim you still worship whichever Alaudian you feel like. Just because you can't mechanically do it doesn't mean you can't RP it.
>Just get a favor from whichever, and proclaim you still worship whichever Alaudian you feel like. Just because you can't mechanically do it doesn't mean you can't RP it.
In this case, this is not true.
It has been unequivocally stated that the Gorbesh gods do not grant favors. The why can be debated, but that fact cannot. If you have a favor (which clerics can see) it's from a non-Gorbesh god.
One of the ways I can see around this is to turn the relationship around.
Why don't the Gorbesh gods give favors? Because the king doesn't pay the servants himself, he has servants to do that. Likewise, the standard eastern gods are lesser versions or servants or something of the true Gorbesh pantheon. Then pick a standard god that represents the aspect of your Gorbesh god and get favors with them.
It may require a little bit of RP bending, but sometimes that's just unavoidable.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
In this case, this is not true.
It has been unequivocally stated that the Gorbesh gods do not grant favors. The why can be debated, but that fact cannot. If you have a favor (which clerics can see) it's from a non-Gorbesh god.
One of the ways I can see around this is to turn the relationship around.
Why don't the Gorbesh gods give favors? Because the king doesn't pay the servants himself, he has servants to do that. Likewise, the standard eastern gods are lesser versions or servants or something of the true Gorbesh pantheon. Then pick a standard god that represents the aspect of your Gorbesh god and get favors with them.
It may require a little bit of RP bending, but sometimes that's just unavoidable.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
>>Why don't the Gorbesh gods give favors? Because the king doesn't pay the servants himself, he has servants to do that. Likewise, the standard eastern gods are lesser versions or servants or something of the true Gorbesh pantheon. Then pick a standard god that represents the aspect of your Gorbesh god and get favors with them.
There are good reasons like this to explain the lore/mechanics of favors in game. My character doesn't take it so far as to say that the Kermorian gods are weaker than the Albarian gods, but views the ability of the 13/39 to grant favors where the likes of Xosiurion and the others can't as a matter of proximity. We're in the lands of the Immortals here. At least that's his current opinion. And he prays to Eylhaar for favors as she's the closest thing that Kermoria has to Orisas. Maybe they're two faces of the same spiritual power. If he were to die with no hope of resurrection, he believes he'll join the rest of the Kaldar and Gorbesh within the Kaneija.
But that's just my RP, which certainly might not work for your character. Food for thought.
-Broichan Leshyahen
There are good reasons like this to explain the lore/mechanics of favors in game. My character doesn't take it so far as to say that the Kermorian gods are weaker than the Albarian gods, but views the ability of the 13/39 to grant favors where the likes of Xosiurion and the others can't as a matter of proximity. We're in the lands of the Immortals here. At least that's his current opinion. And he prays to Eylhaar for favors as she's the closest thing that Kermoria has to Orisas. Maybe they're two faces of the same spiritual power. If he were to die with no hope of resurrection, he believes he'll join the rest of the Kaldar and Gorbesh within the Kaneija.
But that's just my RP, which certainly might not work for your character. Food for thought.
-Broichan Leshyahen
>>It has been unequivocally stated that the Gorbesh gods do not grant favors. The why can be debated, but that fact cannot. If you have a favor (which clerics can see) it's from a non-Gorbesh god.
Minor nitpick, but the first half and the latter half are not always directly related.
One could argue that the Gorbesh gods DO grant favors, but for whatever reason they CAN'T grant them to where you are.
Minor nitpick, but the first half and the latter half are not always directly related.
One could argue that the Gorbesh gods DO grant favors, but for whatever reason they CAN'T grant them to where you are.
>>It has been unequivocally stated that the Gorbesh gods do not grant favors.
Actually, going back to GM Raesh post, it turns out I'm quite wrong:
"6) There are no verifiable accounts of Kaldar who worship the 10 gaining favor, dating back at least as far as the migration. While this fact is troubling to many Kaldar who worship the 10 still, it should be noted both that I said verifiable accounts and that the vast majority of the masses never find favor with the gods, be it the 10 or the 13."
http://elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Kaldar_--_2011_-_3/22/2011_-_1:22:57
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Actually, going back to GM Raesh post, it turns out I'm quite wrong:
"6) There are no verifiable accounts of Kaldar who worship the 10 gaining favor, dating back at least as far as the migration. While this fact is troubling to many Kaldar who worship the 10 still, it should be noted both that I said verifiable accounts and that the vast majority of the masses never find favor with the gods, be it the 10 or the 13."
http://elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Kaldar_--_2011_-_3/22/2011_-_1:22:57
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Well, it looks like Caraamon quoted the post I was going to dig for, so that saves me some time.
Really, I don't have a whole lot to add that wasn't covered in that post:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Races%20of%20DragonRealms/Kaldar%20-%20The%20Korner/view/998
Given that, there are no plans to change the way favors or death's sting work for favorless Kaldar. If you wish to play a devote follower of an Albarian god, you will need to deal with doing so without favor, or discover why they have, apparently, stopped granting favors. Be grateful the 13 are willing to extend you enough help to return to life despite your lack of faith in them. However, you will need to worship them if you wish them to soften death's sting.
All of this does have some interesting theological consquences. Among the Kaldaran elite worship of the 13 is fairly common and still on the rise as more and more Kaldar abandon their old Gods in favor of the worship of those of a more demonstrable power. Conversely, among the Kaldaran masses worship of the 10 has remained significantly more common since favors are a scarcity even among those who worship the 13 (Just as it is for the masses of other races). Of course, even among the masses worship of the 13 is on the rise. Some convert because of the example set by the Kaldaran elite, others because the majority people they grew up with worship the 13.
One fact is abundantly clear, a centuries long trend has begun accelerate in the last few decades: Among the Kaldar, the worship the 10 is losing ground.
EDIT: For clarification, I am speaking here of the Kaldar in Kermoria. While not common knowledge among PCs, the Kaldar in Albarian have remained much more true to the 10, though worship of the 13 still exists within their culture. Specifics are outside of the scope of this post (and common knowledge).
On a developmental level, this is something I've given a lot of thought to and am really looking forward to developing further -- I've just got a lot on my plate at the moment (Both DR projects and RL) so I can't really give a time line right now. For that I do apologize.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Really, I don't have a whole lot to add that wasn't covered in that post:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Races%20of%20DragonRealms/Kaldar%20-%20The%20Korner/view/998
Given that, there are no plans to change the way favors or death's sting work for favorless Kaldar. If you wish to play a devote follower of an Albarian god, you will need to deal with doing so without favor, or discover why they have, apparently, stopped granting favors. Be grateful the 13 are willing to extend you enough help to return to life despite your lack of faith in them. However, you will need to worship them if you wish them to soften death's sting.
All of this does have some interesting theological consquences. Among the Kaldaran elite worship of the 13 is fairly common and still on the rise as more and more Kaldar abandon their old Gods in favor of the worship of those of a more demonstrable power. Conversely, among the Kaldaran masses worship of the 10 has remained significantly more common since favors are a scarcity even among those who worship the 13 (Just as it is for the masses of other races). Of course, even among the masses worship of the 13 is on the rise. Some convert because of the example set by the Kaldaran elite, others because the majority people they grew up with worship the 13.
One fact is abundantly clear, a centuries long trend has begun accelerate in the last few decades: Among the Kaldar, the worship the 10 is losing ground.
EDIT: For clarification, I am speaking here of the Kaldar in Kermoria. While not common knowledge among PCs, the Kaldar in Albarian have remained much more true to the 10, though worship of the 13 still exists within their culture. Specifics are outside of the scope of this post (and common knowledge).
On a developmental level, this is something I've given a lot of thought to and am really looking forward to developing further -- I've just got a lot on my plate at the moment (Both DR projects and RL) so I can't really give a time line right now. For that I do apologize.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>One fact is abundantly clear, a centuries long trend has begun accelerate in the last few decades: Among the Kaldar, the worship the 10 is losing ground.
When you post stuff like this, could you please distinguish between when you're talking about Kaldar in the eastern playable areas, Kaldar who have remained in the Gorbesh lands, or both?
With the potential for significant cultural differences between the two, despite both calling themselves Kaldar, it would alieviate some confusion.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
When you post stuff like this, could you please distinguish between when you're talking about Kaldar in the eastern playable areas, Kaldar who have remained in the Gorbesh lands, or both?
With the potential for significant cultural differences between the two, despite both calling themselves Kaldar, it would alieviate some confusion.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
>One fact is abundantly clear, a centuries long trend has begun accelerate in the last few decades: Among the Kaldar, the worship the 10 is losing ground.
Also, how much of that applies to Gnomes as well?
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Also, how much of that applies to Gnomes as well?
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
>>When you post stuff like this, could you please distinguish between when you're talking about Kaldar in the eastern playable areas, Kaldar who have remained in the Gorbesh lands, or both?
I updated the post with some clariciation, but I was speakingly mostly towards those in Kermoria. What is going on in Albarian is somewhat different, though in many ways more simplistic. However, it is not really common knowledge.
>>Also, how much of that applies to Gnomes as well?
While Gnomes and Kaldar are fairly intertwined with each other I have not spent enough time working on Gnomish lore to answer this with any certainty. However I will look into getting answers.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I updated the post with some clariciation, but I was speakingly mostly towards those in Kermoria. What is going on in Albarian is somewhat different, though in many ways more simplistic. However, it is not really common knowledge.
>>Also, how much of that applies to Gnomes as well?
While Gnomes and Kaldar are fairly intertwined with each other I have not spent enough time working on Gnomish lore to answer this with any certainty. However I will look into getting answers.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>>You're purposefully refusing something that doesn't have to impact your RP, and then saying it's a hindrance.
You know, there's something great about not having favors. If I gave it up and got favors, it would impact my RP. I can tell you at least two or three great stories that would have never happened if I had had favors. Plus what Caraamon said about it being extremely likely that any favor you have is known (or will be perceived by others) as being from the 13.
That's not to say I wouldn't ever consider getting favors -- it would just take some serious in-game convincing from another character.
>>Raesh's post
As always, thanks for the info. I was pretty sure that would be your response, since I read the original post way back when. Like I said, I was just trying to give some feedback on what it's like to make the choice, and how I wish the painfulness of it were manifested in some other way -- not in the potential for item loss.
Then again, I suppose there's something to be said for living life on the edge.
-- Player of Eyuve
You know, there's something great about not having favors. If I gave it up and got favors, it would impact my RP. I can tell you at least two or three great stories that would have never happened if I had had favors. Plus what Caraamon said about it being extremely likely that any favor you have is known (or will be perceived by others) as being from the 13.
That's not to say I wouldn't ever consider getting favors -- it would just take some serious in-game convincing from another character.
>>Raesh's post
As always, thanks for the info. I was pretty sure that would be your response, since I read the original post way back when. Like I said, I was just trying to give some feedback on what it's like to make the choice, and how I wish the painfulness of it were manifested in some other way -- not in the potential for item loss.
Then again, I suppose there's something to be said for living life on the edge.
-- Player of Eyuve
