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<<Would you please give me chapter and verse where you find that GMs specifically coded trails not to be faster? --Badgopher>>
Thank you for the challenge. I sit corrected. Here is the quote from GM Sithix I found about trails:
<<Sorry. Trails will be getting faster. At this juncture gameplay defeats realism to a certain point. The fact that some frontend feature or travel script is faster doesn't really concern me in the least, but a good trail indicates a shortcut. Also a good trail indicates charted territory, just one that's only really charted by ... well, you and yours. --GM Sithix, post 1233 dated 12/21/2010>>
So ok, no more posts from me saying how they aren't meant to be fast. But I still love the way they are now.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
<<The fact that some frontend feature or travel script is faster doesn't really concern me in the least>>
It should have. There have certainly been periods of development that prefered to ignore scripting and/or "frontend features" but I haven't seen that kind of approach in awhile. Granted, I'm just a player and don't know what I'm talking about but to me, the bottom line is that you would hope time spent developing is helpful, useful, and fun, for the players. Turning a blind eye to the advantages offered by external tools doesn't seem to be a productive approach to me.
Rangers have an amazing set of tools and an amazing skill-set. That said, to me, there's two major changes that seem to be very, very easy fixes to scouting: (1) make PC tracking instant, like it used to be (realism be damned, there should be no escaping a ranger); (2) make trail running almost instant (add a timer if there are exp concerns).
It should have. There have certainly been periods of development that prefered to ignore scripting and/or "frontend features" but I haven't seen that kind of approach in awhile. Granted, I'm just a player and don't know what I'm talking about but to me, the bottom line is that you would hope time spent developing is helpful, useful, and fun, for the players. Turning a blind eye to the advantages offered by external tools doesn't seem to be a productive approach to me.
Rangers have an amazing set of tools and an amazing skill-set. That said, to me, there's two major changes that seem to be very, very easy fixes to scouting: (1) make PC tracking instant, like it used to be (realism be damned, there should be no escaping a ranger); (2) make trail running almost instant (add a timer if there are exp concerns).
I consider this skill broken and it should be removed from the game.
It is my primary survival skill (ya...it sucks) and I am in the 700-750 skill range.
After 3.1, the EXP seemed to have been bumped up a bit, which was good, but now it seems to have gone back down for some random reason.
I don't even care about the TIME aspect of trails. The EXP side of it is far more important.
HUNT only gets me to thoughtful if I am lucky. I can run trails for days on end and never gain a single rank and never lock the skill.
SCOUTING is just broken for high end Rangers with mentals in the 50s/60s.
If I were to try to change the spread of my survival skills, it would take me about 6 months for the other skills to pass scouting...
Just get rid of this skill. It is too time consuming to revamp it, so just do away with it.
Have HUNT as a perception check since it teaches that too.
It is my primary survival skill (ya...it sucks) and I am in the 700-750 skill range.
After 3.1, the EXP seemed to have been bumped up a bit, which was good, but now it seems to have gone back down for some random reason.
I don't even care about the TIME aspect of trails. The EXP side of it is far more important.
HUNT only gets me to thoughtful if I am lucky. I can run trails for days on end and never gain a single rank and never lock the skill.
SCOUTING is just broken for high end Rangers with mentals in the 50s/60s.
If I were to try to change the spread of my survival skills, it would take me about 6 months for the other skills to pass scouting...
Just get rid of this skill. It is too time consuming to revamp it, so just do away with it.
Have HUNT as a perception check since it teaches that too.
What would you suggest replacing it with? Every guild needs a guild skill.
You would get farther suggesting an expansion to the skill with possible re-re-naming (Wilderness?) to account for any additions that don't fit the current theme. Stuff like incorporating Beseeches into a skill system so that they provide another teaching option or modifying the nature bonus whether actively or passively.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
You would get farther suggesting an expansion to the skill with possible re-re-naming (Wilderness?) to account for any additions that don't fit the current theme. Stuff like incorporating Beseeches into a skill system so that they provide another teaching option or modifying the nature bonus whether actively or passively.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Scouting is on my radar as an underdeveloped guild skill. I won't pretend that I have any current plans for it, or that it will even be me addressing it, but I've been doing some work on establishing where all the guilds are developmentally and what they need and this is certainly on the list.
(For those keeping score at home the most problematic guild skills right now are Endurance, Bardic Lore and Scouting).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
(For those keeping score at home the most problematic guild skills right now are Endurance, Bardic Lore and Scouting).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
While not a primary driver of the skill, it might be fun if scouting allows a ranger to tell what mobs spawn in a particular room.
I suggest this because, IIRC, being able to tell which players recently passed by in room X was an impossible coding nightmare last time it was raised, but I'm assuming any zone that has critter spawns has that kind of information innately embedded in them in a static manner as it is.
Might also be nice if scouting can display how "wild" a place is, vs the normal pacing or whatever check a Ranger does, and maybe even get some kind of population information.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I suggest this because, IIRC, being able to tell which players recently passed by in room X was an impossible coding nightmare last time it was raised, but I'm assuming any zone that has critter spawns has that kind of information innately embedded in them in a static manner as it is.
Might also be nice if scouting can display how "wild" a place is, vs the normal pacing or whatever check a Ranger does, and maybe even get some kind of population information.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>You would get farther suggesting an expansion to the skill with possible re-re-naming (Wilderness?) to account for any additions that don't fit the current theme. Stuff like incorporating Beseeches into a skill system so that they provide another teaching option or modifying the nature bonus whether actively or passively.
I actually like this idea a lot. I find that Scouting is a really limited name which hamstrung the skill as a whole by only allowing SCOUT and HUNT commands to actively train it. Changing the name to something like WILDERNESS or WILDERNESS EXPERTISE would provide a larger umbrella for multiple skills to be involved.
I'm also a big fan of allowing BESEECH abilities to train something/ be affected by something other than the basic "do you have enough spirit to use this?" or "is your bonus high enough to use this?"
>While not a primary driver of the skill, it might be fun if scouting allows a ranger to tell what mobs spawn in a particular room.
>Might also be nice if scouting can display how "wild" a place is, vs the normal pacing or whatever check a Ranger does, and maybe even get some kind of population information.
Both of those would make nice additions to SCOUT AREA. Something like SCOUT AREA BONUS and SCOUT AREA CREATURE would make perfect sense to me.
You skillfully remove the vanilla cheesecake from your abdomen leaving the wound no worse than it was before.
I actually like this idea a lot. I find that Scouting is a really limited name which hamstrung the skill as a whole by only allowing SCOUT and HUNT commands to actively train it. Changing the name to something like WILDERNESS or WILDERNESS EXPERTISE would provide a larger umbrella for multiple skills to be involved.
I'm also a big fan of allowing BESEECH abilities to train something/ be affected by something other than the basic "do you have enough spirit to use this?" or "is your bonus high enough to use this?"
>While not a primary driver of the skill, it might be fun if scouting allows a ranger to tell what mobs spawn in a particular room.
>Might also be nice if scouting can display how "wild" a place is, vs the normal pacing or whatever check a Ranger does, and maybe even get some kind of population information.
Both of those would make nice additions to SCOUT AREA. Something like SCOUT AREA BONUS and SCOUT AREA CREATURE would make perfect sense to me.
You skillfully remove the vanilla cheesecake from your abdomen leaving the wound no worse than it was before.
I did a brief survey of EXP gain for Shard and Crossing trails with a ranger that has around 700 scouting, and 55 ranged mentals.
Of 20 trails, only 2 gave ANY EXP...and it got moving to THROUGHTFUL...the other trails remained at CLEAR, IE NO EXP GAIN AT ALL.
This is also consistent with the HUNT command with at level critters.
Can the EXP GAIN for trails PPLLEEAASSEE be increased?
There is no way to consistently train this skill.
Can the timer for HUNT also be decreased from 75 second to 35 seconds? The timer is just too long.
Since these are the only ways to train scouting, I feel like these are reasonable requests.
>I suggest this because, IIRC, being able to tell which players recently passed by in room X was an impossible coding nightmare last time it was raised, but I'm assuming any zone that has critter spawns has that kind of information innately embedded in them in a static manner as it is.
I like this idea a lot.
I like this idea a lot.
>> It is my primary survival skill (ya...it sucks) and I am in the 700-750 skill range.
>> SCOUTING is just broken for high end Rangers with mentals in the 50s/60s.
What trails are you running? When you get that high you need to be running the longest trails possible. The trail I use on the mainland is from the Dragon's Spine Mountains (in the gargoyle hunting grounds) to Coriks Wall. With enough loops I can lock my scouting on that trail - in maybe 20 minutes? And if your Athletics is in that same range (700ish), climb the branch near the gondola and Coriks Wall in between trail runs and you'll get Athletics moving at the same time.
Discipline : 75
Wisdom : 75
Intelligence : 80
These are my skills after about 10 minutes of running that trail and climbing Coriks Wall.
Scouting: 1050 71.85% very focused (21/34)
Athletics: 1144 24.22% attentive (10/34)
>> SCOUTING is just broken for high end Rangers with mentals in the 50s/60s.
What trails are you running? When you get that high you need to be running the longest trails possible. The trail I use on the mainland is from the Dragon's Spine Mountains (in the gargoyle hunting grounds) to Coriks Wall. With enough loops I can lock my scouting on that trail - in maybe 20 minutes? And if your Athletics is in that same range (700ish), climb the branch near the gondola and Coriks Wall in between trail runs and you'll get Athletics moving at the same time.
Discipline : 75
Wisdom : 75
Intelligence : 80
These are my skills after about 10 minutes of running that trail and climbing Coriks Wall.
Scouting: 1050 71.85% very focused (21/34)
Athletics: 1144 24.22% attentive (10/34)
I always thought the longest and hardest trails in game were the ones from the south side of the ferry to fens and back and/or the trail from Rossman's to fens and back.
Since I'm down near Shard I will try the trails you suggest. I love learning new things.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
Since I'm down near Shard I will try the trails you suggest. I love learning new things.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
<<I always thought the longest and hardest trails in game were the ones from the south side of the ferry to>> <<fens and back and/or the trail from Rossman's to fens and back.>>
<<Since I'm down near Shard I will try the trails you suggest. I love learning new things.>>
The ones in Shard don't lock as fast in my experience. I do think the longest trails are from the south side of the ferry to fens and back and the one from the fens to Rossman's and back are the longest.
Bluefalcon
<<Since I'm down near Shard I will try the trails you suggest. I love learning new things.>>
The ones in Shard don't lock as fast in my experience. I do think the longest trails are from the south side of the ferry to fens and back and the one from the fens to Rossman's and back are the longest.
Bluefalcon
Well I tried the Corik's trail last night and was able to lock it in just under 20 min. I think the trick is, with the other long trails, by the time I get to where I'm going the experience has already drained significantly and so it takes longer to lock. This trail is sufficiently short enough that although there is drain during the run, it isn't so bad so it is easier to lock.
Also, I imagine a lot has to do with skill level and burden and health. I just love running trails while having 2 full bundles, 6 gem pouches and nearly dead. ; D Just kidding but actually there was a time when I was badly hurt and was running a trail to an empath and died on the trail...it still spitted me out at the end. Sure don't know how that happened.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
Also, I imagine a lot has to do with skill level and burden and health. I just love running trails while having 2 full bundles, 6 gem pouches and nearly dead. ; D Just kidding but actually there was a time when I was badly hurt and was running a trail to an empath and died on the trail...it still spitted me out at the end. Sure don't know how that happened.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
Had a random idea on how to make trails better:
Don't limit them to trails.
Rangers are supposed to be able to work well with animals, so why don't they have animal "mounts" that can extend trails?
Want to get to the islands? Good thing Rangers know where wild sea mammoths like to lounge on the beach and can coax one to help.
Need to get to Hib from Theren? Great, a Ranger knows where to find giant eagles. Lets giddy up.
Things like that. Unless things like this get added, then might as well remove travel from the Ranger concept, because Moon Mages do it ridiculously better.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Don't limit them to trails.
Rangers are supposed to be able to work well with animals, so why don't they have animal "mounts" that can extend trails?
Want to get to the islands? Good thing Rangers know where wild sea mammoths like to lounge on the beach and can coax one to help.
Need to get to Hib from Theren? Great, a Ranger knows where to find giant eagles. Lets giddy up.
Things like that. Unless things like this get added, then might as well remove travel from the Ranger concept, because Moon Mages do it ridiculously better.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Not that I don't agree that if trails could just be moved along a bit faster they would be better.
But I like piggy-backing Caraamon's idea of Scouting being a skill renamed and encompassing more things then currently.
Wilderness Ways:
So under this skill
Scott (figure out what critters will populate the place)
Hunt (combat hunt stuff)
Track (You know tracking things down)
Find Trails
Wilderness Help (the whole getting the giant eagles to fly over to an island over to the other side of a chasm, or finding sea mammoths or whatever)[perhaps 100 level ability or 50 or something].
Perhaps there are other Wilderness Help things, find a trail that can take you to some special refreshing waters so vitality is helped along, or other wise help with other ailments.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
But I like piggy-backing Caraamon's idea of Scouting being a skill renamed and encompassing more things then currently.
Wilderness Ways:
So under this skill
Scott (figure out what critters will populate the place)
Hunt (combat hunt stuff)
Track (You know tracking things down)
Find Trails
Wilderness Help (the whole getting the giant eagles to fly over to an island over to the other side of a chasm, or finding sea mammoths or whatever)[perhaps 100 level ability or 50 or something].
Perhaps there are other Wilderness Help things, find a trail that can take you to some special refreshing waters so vitality is helped along, or other wise help with other ailments.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I like Caraamon's ideas as well. His ideas are more in the line of a classic ranger in RPG table top games. I really liked the way the ranger was fleshed out to give you more options with that type of game. I know that this can't really happen due to the population that is awake most times. (IE more than 5-6)
It would be nice to piggyback off of Caraamon's idea and maybe have mounts other than horses we could tame and train to accept us as a rider. Maybe a giant leucro or maybe a giant saber toothed tiger? No bits or reins of course. I've done jumps with horses before and you really guided the horse with your legs. (This is not using a western saddle.) They would travel faster than anything in the game of course other than MM gates for long distances,
This would obliviously require a high level ranger (over 150+ in circles) and lots of skill. Now that we can't learn animal lore I don't have any idea as to what would be used for the skills required.
Just an idea.
Bluefalcon
It would be nice to piggyback off of Caraamon's idea and maybe have mounts other than horses we could tame and train to accept us as a rider. Maybe a giant leucro or maybe a giant saber toothed tiger? No bits or reins of course. I've done jumps with horses before and you really guided the horse with your legs. (This is not using a western saddle.) They would travel faster than anything in the game of course other than MM gates for long distances,
This would obliviously require a high level ranger (over 150+ in circles) and lots of skill. Now that we can't learn animal lore I don't have any idea as to what would be used for the skills required.
Just an idea.
Bluefalcon
>All of this basically outlines what Ranger Companions will/should do...
>It has been over 10 years with no development.
At this point, it's a set of promises made long enough ago that they'd be in grade school.
I think it's safe to say let it go. The GM(s) who made those promises hasn't been on staff for years, likely never wrote down anything, likely never coded it, etc.
So it doesn't really matter if this was supposed to be the first ever ability of the Rangers guild. It's been a DECADE.
>It has been over 10 years with no development.
At this point, it's a set of promises made long enough ago that they'd be in grade school.
I think it's safe to say let it go. The GM(s) who made those promises hasn't been on staff for years, likely never wrote down anything, likely never coded it, etc.
So it doesn't really matter if this was supposed to be the first ever ability of the Rangers guild. It's been a DECADE.
Love your idea Caraamon and I have long long long been pleading for dolphins who would help us swim to the islands. I went to the Merilew festival (the one to celebrate the wedding of Vorclaf to who ever the Merilew princess was). I LOVED getting there and back to the islands. You rode a dolphin! I spend the first day just riding back and forth on the dolphin having a blast! I was imagining the talkative dolphins giving me guided tour of their ocean.
Also, I think the ability to work with animals like this should be based on skill and beseeches. Beseech the dolphin to carry me to the islands. We can already beseech nature to help us walk on water. (Thank you water spiders for constantly helping me out and not giving up and leaving right away---not like the spiders I use when I use HB. I must have the laziest spiders in the realms because I have never ever seen those spiders reform on anything I casted at). : (
Just a question Caraamon--do you ever sleep? You forge a lot,are in game a lot and read just about every forum.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
Also, I think the ability to work with animals like this should be based on skill and beseeches. Beseech the dolphin to carry me to the islands. We can already beseech nature to help us walk on water. (Thank you water spiders for constantly helping me out and not giving up and leaving right away---not like the spiders I use when I use HB. I must have the laziest spiders in the realms because I have never ever seen those spiders reform on anything I casted at). : (
Just a question Caraamon--do you ever sleep? You forge a lot,are in game a lot and read just about every forum.
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky
<<I think it's safe to say let it go. The GM(s) who made those promises hasn't been on staff for years, likely never wrote down anything, likely never coded it, etc.>>
Much as I'm a positive person and all, sadly, I think you are right and am no longer expecting or hoping for any more development on companions (insert sad lament and sad keening by wolves).
I will just enjoy Lucky for as long as I'm a ranger. I wonder how high I can number the Luckys before I retire. Lucky the 150327355th?
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky (the 13th in case you were wondering)
Much as I'm a positive person and all, sadly, I think you are right and am no longer expecting or hoping for any more development on companions (insert sad lament and sad keening by wolves).
I will just enjoy Lucky for as long as I'm a ranger. I wonder how high I can number the Luckys before I retire. Lucky the 150327355th?
Zinaca and her baby wolf, Lucky (the 13th in case you were wondering)
>Just a question Caraamon--do you ever sleep? You forge a lot,are in game a lot and read just about every forum.
Sleep.
Hmmm.
Had to google that word.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Sleep.
Hmmm.
Had to google that word.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
