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>>What's stopping you from stealing from people right now?
Mostly the fact that everyone realizes now that you can make 100 times more from hunting than you ever could from stealing (while training 20+ skills compared to training zero), and then also the forced PVP open kills it for some people. Unnecessary proliferation of No Steal zones, and vastly diminished player base to target are also minor contributors that certainly don't help
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
<<Mostly the fact that everyone realizes now that you can make 100 times more from hunting than you ever could from stealing (while training 20+ skills compared to training zero), and then also the forced PVP open kills it for some people. Unnecessary proliferation of No Steal zones, and vastly diminished player base to target are also minor contributors that certainly don't help
Maybe I am missing it, but the above does not jive with this:
<<I miss thievery adding to game emmersion. Now it feels like the most cordoned off part of the game which sort of ruins immersion and completely emasculates a large part of role play potential.
If you want to steal for immersion or role play, I don't think there is much standing in your way. Deciding to role play takes away time from training in the most efficient manner. A thief is no different than any other guild in that regard.
On a side note, I am game for anything that makes people want to steal more. The only thing I think is prohibiting you from stealing are no-steal zones right now. I am not sure if there are a ton of those or not. If there are, then that is bad juju and should change.
Madigan
Maybe I am missing it, but the above does not jive with this:
<<I miss thievery adding to game emmersion. Now it feels like the most cordoned off part of the game which sort of ruins immersion and completely emasculates a large part of role play potential.
If you want to steal for immersion or role play, I don't think there is much standing in your way. Deciding to role play takes away time from training in the most efficient manner. A thief is no different than any other guild in that regard.
On a side note, I am game for anything that makes people want to steal more. The only thing I think is prohibiting you from stealing are no-steal zones right now. I am not sure if there are a ton of those or not. If there are, then that is bad juju and should change.
Madigan
There's a ton of no steal these days. But maybe I need to cry uncle on another point because I may be wrong about something that really drives me crazy - and I hate to reveal my dementia and possible ignorance, but I will.
I don't remember people always being able to protect their gems with pouch in pouch. I feel like since 2009ish(?) snagging gems is impossible. Did people just discover that technique 2008-2009ish? Or was it always that way and hapless travelers just never realized?
I don't remember people always being able to protect their gems with pouch in pouch. I feel like since 2009ish(?) snagging gems is impossible. Did people just discover that technique 2008-2009ish? Or was it always that way and hapless travelers just never realized?
>>I don't remember people always being able to protect their gems with pouch in pouch. I feel like since 2009ish(?) snagging gems is impossible. Did people just discover that technique 2008-2009ish? Or was it always that way and hapless travelers just never realized?
Can you steal from tied gem pouches?
Can you steal from tied gem pouches?
>>I don't have an issue with that. Its the equivalent of a closed pouch.
I'm thinking it might be the reason it feels like everyone keeps their pouches closed now though, it kicks the amount of gems that the pouch will hold up from 75->500 iirc.
Personally I agree with Madigan, anything that encourages more stealing would be a good thing for the game. I felt like things were more fun when pickpockets were more active, player on player stealing was one of the big things I talked this game up about back in the day, very few games have anything like that.
I'm thinking it might be the reason it feels like everyone keeps their pouches closed now though, it kicks the amount of gems that the pouch will hold up from 75->500 iirc.
Personally I agree with Madigan, anything that encourages more stealing would be a good thing for the game. I felt like things were more fun when pickpockets were more active, player on player stealing was one of the big things I talked this game up about back in the day, very few games have anything like that.
>>I feel like since 2009ish(?) snagging gems is impossible.
Erm... How many spiritgems got stolen last HE?
I think what you're missing is player ignorance. Those of us that don't like being stolen from know how to go the extra mile to protect ourselves from it. My idea of fun RP is definitely not "letting you take the money I just made hunting for the only hour today that I have time to play"
That being said, I'm sure some people are on the other side of the fence, as well. You just need to find them. I bet people with "open pockets" won't be sitting around a no-steal zone.
Erm... How many spiritgems got stolen last HE?
I think what you're missing is player ignorance. Those of us that don't like being stolen from know how to go the extra mile to protect ourselves from it. My idea of fun RP is definitely not "letting you take the money I just made hunting for the only hour today that I have time to play"
That being said, I'm sure some people are on the other side of the fence, as well. You just need to find them. I bet people with "open pockets" won't be sitting around a no-steal zone.
Its surprising how many people still carry gems on them that aren't in a gem pouch. I guess they've stowed and maybe only fill once in a while? I fill my pouch constantly, but its mostly about keeping item count down. Many folks don't bother or know to protect their gweth stones.
And I'd say if you're smart about it and do some quick pick pocketing for 5 minutes or so before a hunt you can make some decent coin without wasting too much time not training 20 skills in combat at once.
Jalika
And I'd say if you're smart about it and do some quick pick pocketing for 5 minutes or so before a hunt you can make some decent coin without wasting too much time not training 20 skills in combat at once.
Jalika
>>offering top notch roleplay
Been playing different characters on and off since AOL. Never even once had any thievery lead to any RP whatsoever, with the exception of rolling up a thief and hanging out in the guild. That was fun from an RP standpoint, but I didn't enjoy actually trying to level as a thief - I'm not a survival prime sort of person. The rest of the time I just wind up losing coins/gems or catching the thief who would immediately hide and run.
Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief," but even if I did, there's other ways to start roleplay. Try mugging. Talking/intimidating my coins into your pocket is RP. Having more thievery than I have perception is not.
Been playing different characters on and off since AOL. Never even once had any thievery lead to any RP whatsoever, with the exception of rolling up a thief and hanging out in the guild. That was fun from an RP standpoint, but I didn't enjoy actually trying to level as a thief - I'm not a survival prime sort of person. The rest of the time I just wind up losing coins/gems or catching the thief who would immediately hide and run.
Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief," but even if I did, there's other ways to start roleplay. Try mugging. Talking/intimidating my coins into your pocket is RP. Having more thievery than I have perception is not.
<<Been playing different characters on and off since AOL. Never even once had any thievery lead to any RP whatsoever...The rest of the time I just wind up losing coins/gems or catching the thief who would immediately hide and run.>>
I'm sure it's true. In the aggregate, I think roleplay sucks in dragonrealms. That's a function of a lack of player commitment and creativity.
<<Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief," but even if I did, there's other ways to start roleplay. Try mugging. Talking/intimidating my coins into your pocket is RP. Having more thievery than I have perception is not.>>
I agree completely. I never saw much of a variety of thief-play, but of course there are some exceptions. I think of all the thieves/criminals in movies. From Malak in Conan the Destroyer, played by Tracey Walter, who was bumbling, sleazy, and opportunistic; to A Clockwork Orange's Alex, played by Malcolm McDowell, who wasn't silent at all - he was flamboyantly cruel and verbally abusive; to Thomas Crown who was debonair, wealthy, a real ladies-man; to Robin Hood - who had a purpose.
In addition to roleplaying personality, thieves can have purpose. Robin Hood stole for the poor, others may steal to support their family. Others may steal because they are anarchists and reject the demands and constraints of society. Others may simply like playing ninja (which is what we see almost all the time).
It takes actors' acting to bring those characters to life so they are interesting to both the actor and the audience. The problem is most people cant act whether or not they play an RPG.
If thieves really made a mark with their roleplay the loss of a gem complaint would be replaced with gratitude for the role play interaction.
I'm sure it's true. In the aggregate, I think roleplay sucks in dragonrealms. That's a function of a lack of player commitment and creativity.
<<Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief," but even if I did, there's other ways to start roleplay. Try mugging. Talking/intimidating my coins into your pocket is RP. Having more thievery than I have perception is not.>>
I agree completely. I never saw much of a variety of thief-play, but of course there are some exceptions. I think of all the thieves/criminals in movies. From Malak in Conan the Destroyer, played by Tracey Walter, who was bumbling, sleazy, and opportunistic; to A Clockwork Orange's Alex, played by Malcolm McDowell, who wasn't silent at all - he was flamboyantly cruel and verbally abusive; to Thomas Crown who was debonair, wealthy, a real ladies-man; to Robin Hood - who had a purpose.
In addition to roleplaying personality, thieves can have purpose. Robin Hood stole for the poor, others may steal to support their family. Others may steal because they are anarchists and reject the demands and constraints of society. Others may simply like playing ninja (which is what we see almost all the time).
It takes actors' acting to bring those characters to life so they are interesting to both the actor and the audience. The problem is most people cant act whether or not they play an RPG.
If thieves really made a mark with their roleplay the loss of a gem complaint would be replaced with gratitude for the role play interaction.
I'm trying to say personality, physical ticks, idiosyncratic behavior, becoming known for using particular verby items or containers, using smile and act, etc. during their stealing/robbery activities.
Thieves can play bravery or cowardice. It's okay to get yourself killed by roleplaying a steal attempt from someone huge. I love being criminal because it's never about making people feel like crap, it's about carving out my place in the game through roleplay, even though it means someone may lose some of their wealth.
Thieves can play bravery or cowardice. It's okay to get yourself killed by roleplaying a steal attempt from someone huge. I love being criminal because it's never about making people feel like crap, it's about carving out my place in the game through roleplay, even though it means someone may lose some of their wealth.
>>Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief,"
I've only caught people stealing from me a handful of times, but they were all great RP moments that I look back on fondly.
Then there was the time someone stole 7 plat from me while I was waiting for HE to open, and I swore like a sailor. ;)
It wasn't much for RP but it did introduce some danger to the game, and make me think strategically. I like that.
-- Player of Eyuve
I've only caught people stealing from me a handful of times, but they were all great RP moments that I look back on fondly.
Then there was the time someone stole 7 plat from me while I was waiting for HE to open, and I swore like a sailor. ;)
It wasn't much for RP but it did introduce some danger to the game, and make me think strategically. I like that.
-- Player of Eyuve
>>Erm... How many spiritgems got stolen last HE?
I took 12 before the fest ended, and I've managed another 8 since. I even got one about two weeks ago. I've also managed 10-15 planetary/bleeding gems and who knows how many of the 'high priced' Uwresari gems that people seemed to like to make appraisal pouches with. Player stealing is alive and well for some of us, we're just getting good enough that all you sorry slobs CANT SEE US, MUAHAHAHAHAH!
On a more serious note, like Jalika said, on a decent day in Crossings I can pocket a hundred plat or so with little to no risk. Do I do it? Sure. Every day? No way, that doesnt even come close to passing as something decent to do to other players. Do I normally try to make it known that I'm picking pockets when I'm hanging around the Crossings or Riverhaven or Langenfirth, absolutely. I even steal from folks I KNOW are gunna catch me, first time. Sometimes you get a smirk, sometimes you get an axe, sometimes they just ignore you. It happens, you roll with it, and you move on.
No-steal zones: Booo. We dont have 'no bartering' zones or 'no healing' zones or 'no crafting' zones (work with me on that last one, I get the whole 'you gotta use a building' situation) so I dont get why we need no-stealing zones. Dont wanna lose coins at a fest? Get smart on how you get them there. Standing outside the entrance to a known festival where thieves are IC'ly GOING TO CONGREGATE AND PREY UPON YOU seems like it should be your fault when you lose them. Hell, I know plenty of 'good guy' thieves who would probably jump at the chance to make a few coins playing coin-escort. Wierd RP right, thieves being hired to protect peoples money from other thieves.
Player stealing is only as fun as you allow it to be for you and the folks you're inflicting your stealing upon. Sometimes you snag 40 gems and leave, sometimes you snag 40 gems and fill the backpack of that little empath sitting there listening to an empathy class, sometimes you clean out the empath and hand the gems back to them like you've given them some extraordinary tip for mediocre healing. Stealing only sucks when you let it.
-O
I took 12 before the fest ended, and I've managed another 8 since. I even got one about two weeks ago. I've also managed 10-15 planetary/bleeding gems and who knows how many of the 'high priced' Uwresari gems that people seemed to like to make appraisal pouches with. Player stealing is alive and well for some of us, we're just getting good enough that all you sorry slobs CANT SEE US, MUAHAHAHAHAH!
On a more serious note, like Jalika said, on a decent day in Crossings I can pocket a hundred plat or so with little to no risk. Do I do it? Sure. Every day? No way, that doesnt even come close to passing as something decent to do to other players. Do I normally try to make it known that I'm picking pockets when I'm hanging around the Crossings or Riverhaven or Langenfirth, absolutely. I even steal from folks I KNOW are gunna catch me, first time. Sometimes you get a smirk, sometimes you get an axe, sometimes they just ignore you. It happens, you roll with it, and you move on.
No-steal zones: Booo. We dont have 'no bartering' zones or 'no healing' zones or 'no crafting' zones (work with me on that last one, I get the whole 'you gotta use a building' situation) so I dont get why we need no-stealing zones. Dont wanna lose coins at a fest? Get smart on how you get them there. Standing outside the entrance to a known festival where thieves are IC'ly GOING TO CONGREGATE AND PREY UPON YOU seems like it should be your fault when you lose them. Hell, I know plenty of 'good guy' thieves who would probably jump at the chance to make a few coins playing coin-escort. Wierd RP right, thieves being hired to protect peoples money from other thieves.
Player stealing is only as fun as you allow it to be for you and the folks you're inflicting your stealing upon. Sometimes you snag 40 gems and leave, sometimes you snag 40 gems and fill the backpack of that little empath sitting there listening to an empathy class, sometimes you clean out the empath and hand the gems back to them like you've given them some extraordinary tip for mediocre healing. Stealing only sucks when you let it.
-O
Mark virtually (let me emphasis this... virtually) eliminates any risk involved on the Thief side when it comes to stealing, unless that particular player is scared to be locked Open for a little bit of time.
Since Mark was implemented I cannot recall one single time my character saw a Thief steal from him, other than some friend fooling around or something.
What I miss is when Mark didn't allow a Thief to gauge someone's perception skill. The more risk on both sides the better as it creates somewhat of a chaotic environment and can lead to fun RP, whether that involves making people band together or not.
To blame it all on stealing/mark would be false. There are a number of issues that has made stealing less focal, from game mechanics to simply having more moongate capable Moon Mages.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Since Mark was implemented I cannot recall one single time my character saw a Thief steal from him, other than some friend fooling around or something.
What I miss is when Mark didn't allow a Thief to gauge someone's perception skill. The more risk on both sides the better as it creates somewhat of a chaotic environment and can lead to fun RP, whether that involves making people band together or not.
To blame it all on stealing/mark would be false. There are a number of issues that has made stealing less focal, from game mechanics to simply having more moongate capable Moon Mages.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>I don't remember people always being able to protect their gems with pouch in pouch. I feel like since 2009ish(?) snagging gems is impossible. Did people just discover that technique 2008-2009ish? Or was it always that way and hapless travelers just never realized?
Gems within nested containers were always unstealable. What has changed though was the implementation of the STOW verb automatically stuffing gems into a tied pouch as your default container. With the way it works now, you find a gem on the ground, type STOW GEM, and it goes straight into an unstealable tied pouch without ever touching your hands or landing in an open container which you may forget about.
That's the cause of the difference you are noticing, and it was implemented due to inventory count issues so it's probably unlikely to be changed
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Gems within nested containers were always unstealable. What has changed though was the implementation of the STOW verb automatically stuffing gems into a tied pouch as your default container. With the way it works now, you find a gem on the ground, type STOW GEM, and it goes straight into an unstealable tied pouch without ever touching your hands or landing in an open container which you may forget about.
That's the cause of the difference you are noticing, and it was implemented due to inventory count issues so it's probably unlikely to be changed
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>To blame it all on stealing/mark would be false. There are a number of issues that has made stealing less focal, from game mechanics to simply having more moongate capable Moon Mages.
I think the biggest deterrent is being locked open. I know there are some Thieves who don't care (and always have been) and I applaud them, but let's be honest: probably 80% of the player stealing I saw back in the day was from snerts.
Aside from Muspar'ii shops (which were heavily nerfed) and highly-attended events like fests, PC theft has never been profitable on a day-to-day basis compared to the safety and ease of hunting.
The only other real value many people got from it was griefing players waiting for the ferry, or stealing from someone you knew couldn't fight back and then hiding behind consent rules when someone else tried to attack you. I remember when they made stealing lock you open there was an explosion of outrage in the Thief forums.
I think the biggest deterrent is being locked open. I know there are some Thieves who don't care (and always have been) and I applaud them, but let's be honest: probably 80% of the player stealing I saw back in the day was from snerts.
Aside from Muspar'ii shops (which were heavily nerfed) and highly-attended events like fests, PC theft has never been profitable on a day-to-day basis compared to the safety and ease of hunting.
The only other real value many people got from it was griefing players waiting for the ferry, or stealing from someone you knew couldn't fight back and then hiding behind consent rules when someone else tried to attack you. I remember when they made stealing lock you open there was an explosion of outrage in the Thief forums.
>you find a gem on the ground, type STOW GEM, and it goes straight into an unstealable tied pouch without ever touching your hands or landing in an open container
That makes me think of something, I don't know how many conflicts I have gotten into in the past due to someone coming into the room and stealing gems. I mean you want some right now action, that was the ticket! I guess a slap in the face aught to accomplish the same thing though, but it is a lot harder to justify than some 'good ol' thievery. Unfortunately I guess it was usually higher level characters trolling lower hunting grounds for a fight.
That makes me think of something, I don't know how many conflicts I have gotten into in the past due to someone coming into the room and stealing gems. I mean you want some right now action, that was the ticket! I guess a slap in the face aught to accomplish the same thing though, but it is a lot harder to justify than some 'good ol' thievery. Unfortunately I guess it was usually higher level characters trolling lower hunting grounds for a fight.
>>Maybe I haven't run into the "right thief,"
I used to get hit up by the same thief on the ferry with my Trader constantly. He would demand payment, and would just take it if you refused or didn't respond. But he RPed it well and we eventually became friends and he stopped stealing from me.
There are a few problems with player stealing:
1. The limit on the amount you can steal is too low such that the reward from hunting is greater
2. It's way harder to train thievery than perception (or any other skill in the game)
I miss player stealing, and this is coming from someone that played a trader back when it was rampant, and plays a thief now that it's not. It's an element of danger and excitement that is sadly missing from the game now.
I used to get hit up by the same thief on the ferry with my Trader constantly. He would demand payment, and would just take it if you refused or didn't respond. But he RPed it well and we eventually became friends and he stopped stealing from me.
There are a few problems with player stealing:
1. The limit on the amount you can steal is too low such that the reward from hunting is greater
2. It's way harder to train thievery than perception (or any other skill in the game)
I miss player stealing, and this is coming from someone that played a trader back when it was rampant, and plays a thief now that it's not. It's an element of danger and excitement that is sadly missing from the game now.
>>I miss people actually hanging out and wanting to be in Shard.
I don't remember this ever occurring :)
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I don't remember this ever occurring :)
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I don't know. I think people like going to Shard. It was a pretty happing place.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
>I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at your juvenile insistence that nothing is getting balanced.
Heh, 'is getting balanced' really? You have some insider knowledge on what exactly the GM's are doing? You might not be able to one shot people anymore but there is no balance in the combat end. When 200 warding > 500 TM or 900 TM > 1200 evasion. This is not balance. When critters can take 90% of your vit at level, this is not balance. All these are issue that have been brought up with NO GM response. Juvenile you call it, I call it a blatant observation. There are several other issues that are quite unbalancing I just listed those because they are the ones I know of statisticaly.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
Heh, 'is getting balanced' really? You have some insider knowledge on what exactly the GM's are doing? You might not be able to one shot people anymore but there is no balance in the combat end. When 200 warding > 500 TM or 900 TM > 1200 evasion. This is not balance. When critters can take 90% of your vit at level, this is not balance. All these are issue that have been brought up with NO GM response. Juvenile you call it, I call it a blatant observation. There are several other issues that are quite unbalancing I just listed those because they are the ones I know of statisticaly.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
