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First, love this topic.
I ran into a similar problem on Aesry. There were two "known" necros. One was outed, but cautious with what spells they cast in group situations, and never really flaunted it, but still hung out at the local haunts. The other keep to herself, but in hunting areas would cast whatever they wanted and had been seen with a zombie.
What do you do? Aesry's a small place (as pretty much every area is if it is your hang out). Do you thwack (or get thwacked by) the person every time you see them in town? Do you let it slide unless they are actively doing something necro? I'm with everyone on the leaving everyone alone while hunting/training, but even then, you going to crush a necro that has just spent 3 hours filling his field experience pools?
Same with Sorcery. Sorcery is the new vocals / cool thing. For a decade now, the DR dogma has been "Sorcery is bad, Mkay!", and now it's a skill that you can train (and are encouraged to do so by gaining a mechanical advantage).
I just had crisis of faith (Diggan did actually) the other day as I realized I was actively selling scrolls (PLATS BABY!) as a Ranger that has hated sorcery since his inception. Not to mention the guild frowns on such dark arts.
Is a game mechanic necessary? If a necro is hanging out in a room should the room get penalized with some sort of social penalty? If you cast sorcery spells in public places should you get social outrage (if that's the correct term), should people that see someone casting a sorcerous spell get a penalty?
I think it's an interesting topic, I think I'm going to recommit to hating necros and sorcery and look forward to finding some good RP (and probably a lot of deaths).
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
>>In game canon wise, it really wasn't the army of undead that was going to destroy all of reality. It was the necromancer itself.
At the same time, it wasn't any necromancer, but a necromancer of a specific caliber.
>>I just had crisis of faith (Diggan did actually) the other day as I realized I was actively selling scrolls (PLATS BABY!) as a Ranger that has hated sorcery since his inception. Not to mention the guild frowns on such dark arts.
Lowercase s sorcery isn't dogmatically bad as much as it is technically stupid.
Using lowercase s sorcery is really just dangerous to yourself. It's like putting diesel fuel in a car that uses unleaded gasoline, or the other way around. It's not going to break the world, but it might screw up your vehicle, ruin your day, and have everyone consider you an idiot.
Using capital S Sorcery is dangerous to reality. That's the morally "questionable" setup because you're proactively causing things that should not be from taking place. Just because of the gas example above, this is more akin to smoking in a gas station. It's not just going to have you potentially wreck your car, but also blow up a few city blocks and cause massive injuries to everyone around you.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
At the same time, it wasn't any necromancer, but a necromancer of a specific caliber.
>>I just had crisis of faith (Diggan did actually) the other day as I realized I was actively selling scrolls (PLATS BABY!) as a Ranger that has hated sorcery since his inception. Not to mention the guild frowns on such dark arts.
Lowercase s sorcery isn't dogmatically bad as much as it is technically stupid.
Using lowercase s sorcery is really just dangerous to yourself. It's like putting diesel fuel in a car that uses unleaded gasoline, or the other way around. It's not going to break the world, but it might screw up your vehicle, ruin your day, and have everyone consider you an idiot.
Using capital S Sorcery is dangerous to reality. That's the morally "questionable" setup because you're proactively causing things that should not be from taking place. Just because of the gas example above, this is more akin to smoking in a gas station. It's not just going to have you potentially wreck your car, but also blow up a few city blocks and cause massive injuries to everyone around you.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
In response to:
>I think I'll try to stay true to my character's RP despite the lack of immersion for me. I'll perhaps refrain from getting involved in most Necromancy situations though (leave it to the Inquisition) and chalk it up to the general supportive populace being insanely attention-seeking goofs. :)
And:
>I'd like to see an addition to the accuse system of a blatant supporter of necromancy or something similar.
This has been mentioned another time .. I can't remember where. I'll say it again -- If you notice someone blatantly being supportive of necromancy or necromancers, please do us the wonderful favor of throwing up a quick REPORT Hey, y'all might want to look over the gweth chatter for the past few minutes, Joe Bob is being pretty Outrageous! or maybe REPORT Hey, if you come across an Inquisition investigator, let them know that Joe Bob has been acting suspicious.
Using REPORT in this fashion is not tattling on your fellow adventurers, its letting us know who we should be watching so that we can enhance their RP experience.
~ L
>I think I'll try to stay true to my character's RP despite the lack of immersion for me. I'll perhaps refrain from getting involved in most Necromancy situations though (leave it to the Inquisition) and chalk it up to the general supportive populace being insanely attention-seeking goofs. :)
And:
>I'd like to see an addition to the accuse system of a blatant supporter of necromancy or something similar.
This has been mentioned another time .. I can't remember where. I'll say it again -- If you notice someone blatantly being supportive of necromancy or necromancers, please do us the wonderful favor of throwing up a quick REPORT Hey, y'all might want to look over the gweth chatter for the past few minutes, Joe Bob is being pretty Outrageous! or maybe REPORT Hey, if you come across an Inquisition investigator, let them know that Joe Bob has been acting suspicious.
Using REPORT in this fashion is not tattling on your fellow adventurers, its letting us know who we should be watching so that we can enhance their RP experience.
~ L
Fun discussion. Vin, I think it is a difficult position to hand-wave at the necro stuff and attempt a leadership position. Although, it could lead to some fun RP.
It is always easier to ignore the RP either from a (i) meh no one else cares or (ii) meh I don't want to be bothered. I tend to think that people that desire a leadership position RP do themselves and the location of their leader RP a disservice when they hand wave at this type of stuff.
Of course, my character is a bit aggressive on the issue (i.e. good vs evil) so I could have a slanted view of this particular issue.
Madigan
You sense the Clarity spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-six roisaen.
You sense the Anti-Stun spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-five roisaen.
It is always easier to ignore the RP either from a (i) meh no one else cares or (ii) meh I don't want to be bothered. I tend to think that people that desire a leadership position RP do themselves and the location of their leader RP a disservice when they hand wave at this type of stuff.
Of course, my character is a bit aggressive on the issue (i.e. good vs evil) so I could have a slanted view of this particular issue.
Madigan
You sense the Clarity spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-six roisaen.
You sense the Anti-Stun spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-five roisaen.
In leadership it's not about being the end all be all example of everything, that's almost impossible to do. It's more about spotlighting the folks that are and working them in. I snared Luiri Sendithu and Ventuul then mostly sat back and let them rawr.
Leucius
Never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Leucius
Never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
I want to expand a bit on the end of my last post... The social outrage aspect.
From what I understand based on GameMaster posts (and I hope if I'm wrong, I'm corrected by them), we are supposed to be outraged by necromancers. That its a massive blasphemy on anything any one of us would believe in. Based on that, I really think that it should be something we can '911' about if we see Joe Shmoe saying, ooh look cuddly zombie. Either kill it, or flee in terror. Don't say necromancy is okay. Give NecroLord a break.
The only way to combat player base apathy is like any other real life problem. Bring consequences to the action. Just making something against the rules is pointless; if people don't feel pain they don't care.
>>From what I understand based on GameMaster posts (and I hope if I'm wrong, I'm corrected by them), we are supposed to be outraged by Necromancers.
Ehhhh... I feel like a more accurate view is that society is [fanatically] terrified of Necromancers. Meanwhile, the Immortals only seem to be outraged by Necromancers when they become A Big Deal or start acting in a manner that might make people question the Immortal's clout.
If I had to guess, I would say most Heroes (aka: PCs) will probably fall more toward the Immortals' view on Necromancers than society's view, just because Heroes are generally able to survive most problems Necromancers create (until a Necromancer becomes A Big Deal). Because of that, I could see why Heroes might not be as aggressively proactive as society. As I mentioned previously, would/should a hero be just as terrified of Isundjen Conjurers after killing their 100th one? Doesn't the fear/mystique eventually dull? Sure, they're still bad, and sure, they should still die, but would it eventually become more of a job/chore than a fanatical terror that society tends to have? If some heroes are on their way to do something else, would they always stop to take care of it, because that becomes the priority no matter what?
This isn't to say some heroes can't be fanatics, because everyone can have obsessions, but I'd consider it more abnormal for someone with that much power to be scared of something that may be notably smaller/weaker than they are.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Ehhhh... I feel like a more accurate view is that society is [fanatically] terrified of Necromancers. Meanwhile, the Immortals only seem to be outraged by Necromancers when they become A Big Deal or start acting in a manner that might make people question the Immortal's clout.
If I had to guess, I would say most Heroes (aka: PCs) will probably fall more toward the Immortals' view on Necromancers than society's view, just because Heroes are generally able to survive most problems Necromancers create (until a Necromancer becomes A Big Deal). Because of that, I could see why Heroes might not be as aggressively proactive as society. As I mentioned previously, would/should a hero be just as terrified of Isundjen Conjurers after killing their 100th one? Doesn't the fear/mystique eventually dull? Sure, they're still bad, and sure, they should still die, but would it eventually become more of a job/chore than a fanatical terror that society tends to have? If some heroes are on their way to do something else, would they always stop to take care of it, because that becomes the priority no matter what?
This isn't to say some heroes can't be fanatics, because everyone can have obsessions, but I'd consider it more abnormal for someone with that much power to be scared of something that may be notably smaller/weaker than they are.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
>DR-LYNEYA: Using REPORT in this fashion is not tattling on your fellow adventurers, its letting us know who we should be watching so that we can enhance their RP experience.
I am so glad to hear you guys state this is how you feel on the matter!
My necromancer has had a bunch of interaction with people, hiding in plain sight. I am still afraid of being outed, as his combats aren't terribly impressive for a 100th circle character, and I don't think DR is really amenable to evenly balanced fights, but that said, it's still fun feeling like you're at the table of a fancy dinner party, laughing with all the guests, but wearing blood soaked pants and hiding a body under the table.
I am so glad to hear you guys state this is how you feel on the matter!
My necromancer has had a bunch of interaction with people, hiding in plain sight. I am still afraid of being outed, as his combats aren't terribly impressive for a 100th circle character, and I don't think DR is really amenable to evenly balanced fights, but that said, it's still fun feeling like you're at the table of a fancy dinner party, laughing with all the guests, but wearing blood soaked pants and hiding a body under the table.
Leucius: Handling the issue by delegation is not hand-waving in my view. It is handling the issue and getting people involved which is a win-win.
But you make my point exactly. As a leader, you should always attempt to get people involved. If you simply ignore a situation for RP, you ignore I think your primary role.
Madigan
You sense the Clarity spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-six roisaen.
You sense the Anti-Stun spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-five roisaen.
But you make my point exactly. As a leader, you should always attempt to get people involved. If you simply ignore a situation for RP, you ignore I think your primary role.
Madigan
You sense the Clarity spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-six roisaen.
You sense the Anti-Stun spell upon you, which will last for about seven thousand eight hundred thirty-five roisaen.
>If an individual desides to take on a nercomancer, he/she is basically commiting themselves to a 3v1 fight.(Necro/zombie/construct). So being anti necromancy should be a social thing where people join together to even the odds.
3 PC's is way more than 1 necro with pets up. Maybe on Zerreck level stuff but I know myself in an at level fight IF I can even get the mudman out. I underperform even with the pets and have to try my arse off to be able to win. That kinda mentality keeps some of the necro's who might come out to play that aren't all uber level and the PC's of a given area CAN handle on the lower end from doing so.
I know my first few run-ins in Therengia were just a mass ganking, however once some of the players understood I wasn't some secret stealth to 150th necromancer come to smash faces I got a little bit more respect and didn't have 3 vs 1 on poor little Khiol.
The zombie might be a decent weapon but the Necromancer is squishy with no defense and lackluster magics.
I really like this thread though, it helps me as a player understand what the general playerbase is looking for from the 'necromancer'.
>As a leader, you should always attempt to get people involved. If you simply ignore a situation for RP, you ignore I think your primary role.
Well said Madigan.
>TEVESHSZAT
Are you defending the fence riding and apathetic stance towards necromancers? I thought you played one?
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
3 PC's is way more than 1 necro with pets up. Maybe on Zerreck level stuff but I know myself in an at level fight IF I can even get the mudman out. I underperform even with the pets and have to try my arse off to be able to win. That kinda mentality keeps some of the necro's who might come out to play that aren't all uber level and the PC's of a given area CAN handle on the lower end from doing so.
I know my first few run-ins in Therengia were just a mass ganking, however once some of the players understood I wasn't some secret stealth to 150th necromancer come to smash faces I got a little bit more respect and didn't have 3 vs 1 on poor little Khiol.
The zombie might be a decent weapon but the Necromancer is squishy with no defense and lackluster magics.
I really like this thread though, it helps me as a player understand what the general playerbase is looking for from the 'necromancer'.
>As a leader, you should always attempt to get people involved. If you simply ignore a situation for RP, you ignore I think your primary role.
Well said Madigan.
>TEVESHSZAT
Are you defending the fence riding and apathetic stance towards necromancers? I thought you played one?
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
>>Are you defending the fence riding and apathetic stance towards necromancers?
In a way of sorts, yes. In more specific terms, I'm highlighting why the hero class of Elanthia might not care about certain things in such a visceral manner as society. Looking at how I see the facts in very generalized terms:
1) The Hero class is pretty much okay with Sorcery. Necromancy is just a subset of Sorcery with bad press.
2) The Hero class is pretty good at killing scary things. Necromancy, to a certain extent, is just another scary thing.
3) The Hero class is more comparable to the Immortals than to dirt farmers. We already know that the Immortals only seem to go "yeah, you need to die" when a Necromancer gets particularly uppity, because otherwise Necromancers would never really exist at all. I'm not surprised that people who can essentially never die might not be too threatened by something they might consider a part of their rote day to day thing they have to deal with.
4) The Hero class has a pretty bizarre style of living compared to the majority of the world. When you surround yourself with so much death and destruction on a daily basis, would you necessarily be that terrified of Necromancy on the same level as people who don't really have days involving "Go out and kill a couple dozen thugs, dragon priests, trolls, drakes, zombies, origami paper monsters, etc"?
5) The Hero class is always forgiven. Cast some spells that arguably decimated some in-town infrastructure? Pay your fine! Killed someone in the middle of town? Pay your fine! Robbed a store? Pay your fine! Yelled at the King? Pay your fine, maybe! Oh wait, you're in Therengia? Okay, then get out of here, and yell at that other King instead! Killed our Queen? Sure, we'll buy your horses!
The Hero class of Elanthia are essentially long-term-invulnerable walking Judge Dredds who just sometimes have to deal with hand slaps. Of course they're going to sometimes be prone toward apathy when it comes to things that terrify the general public who are very vulnerable and at the bottom of the food chain.
Sure, some might be protective of their lessers, or just have strong feelings against Sorcery, or just hate Necromancy in particular. Then again, some heroes really care about how bad Thievery is, or are willing to do anything for the people who are stronger than they are, or remember where they came from. Then again, some heroes really hate the government, some heroes might consider Moon Mages a threat, and some heroes might want to overthrow their guild and instate a new Kalag. But they're pretty much left to their own whims when making those kinds of commitments.
>>I thought you played one?
Shouldn't really matter in this context, but yes.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
In a way of sorts, yes. In more specific terms, I'm highlighting why the hero class of Elanthia might not care about certain things in such a visceral manner as society. Looking at how I see the facts in very generalized terms:
1) The Hero class is pretty much okay with Sorcery. Necromancy is just a subset of Sorcery with bad press.
2) The Hero class is pretty good at killing scary things. Necromancy, to a certain extent, is just another scary thing.
3) The Hero class is more comparable to the Immortals than to dirt farmers. We already know that the Immortals only seem to go "yeah, you need to die" when a Necromancer gets particularly uppity, because otherwise Necromancers would never really exist at all. I'm not surprised that people who can essentially never die might not be too threatened by something they might consider a part of their rote day to day thing they have to deal with.
4) The Hero class has a pretty bizarre style of living compared to the majority of the world. When you surround yourself with so much death and destruction on a daily basis, would you necessarily be that terrified of Necromancy on the same level as people who don't really have days involving "Go out and kill a couple dozen thugs, dragon priests, trolls, drakes, zombies, origami paper monsters, etc"?
5) The Hero class is always forgiven. Cast some spells that arguably decimated some in-town infrastructure? Pay your fine! Killed someone in the middle of town? Pay your fine! Robbed a store? Pay your fine! Yelled at the King? Pay your fine, maybe! Oh wait, you're in Therengia? Okay, then get out of here, and yell at that other King instead! Killed our Queen? Sure, we'll buy your horses!
The Hero class of Elanthia are essentially long-term-invulnerable walking Judge Dredds who just sometimes have to deal with hand slaps. Of course they're going to sometimes be prone toward apathy when it comes to things that terrify the general public who are very vulnerable and at the bottom of the food chain.
Sure, some might be protective of their lessers, or just have strong feelings against Sorcery, or just hate Necromancy in particular. Then again, some heroes really care about how bad Thievery is, or are willing to do anything for the people who are stronger than they are, or remember where they came from. Then again, some heroes really hate the government, some heroes might consider Moon Mages a threat, and some heroes might want to overthrow their guild and instate a new Kalag. But they're pretty much left to their own whims when making those kinds of commitments.
>>I thought you played one?
Shouldn't really matter in this context, but yes.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Your overgeneralizing and backing the 'hero' class into the neat little niche that YOU see it in.
IMO, This view is what will push the necromancer class to the same fate as the thieves went way back when (which I'd like to see thieves catch flak again).
Sorcery is viewed to lightly by the playerbase also IMO, I think because of this you have statements like this...
>1) The Hero class is pretty much okay with Sorcery. Necromancy is just a subset of Sorcery with bad press.
>2) The Hero class is pretty good at killing scary things. Necromancy, to a certain extent, is just another scary thing.
>Sure, some might be protective of their lessers, or just have strong feelings against Sorcery, or just hate Necromancy in particular. Then again, some heroes really care about how bad Thievery is, or are willing to do anything for the people who are stronger than they are, or remember where they came from. Then again, some heroes really hate the government, some heroes might consider Moon Mages a threat, and some heroes might want to overthrow their guild and instate a new Kalag. But they're pretty much left to their own whims when making those kinds of commitments.
This I do understand, in that game there are alot of people who play the fence and just lack consistancy in their characters. If there were more people who could take the necro stance and handle all the repercussions that come with it I don't think we'd be having this thread at all. However from what I see in my interactions most the players will either be entirely indifferent to a Sorcerer/Necromancer, support Sorcery/Necromancy yet policy play and hide behind PvP Stance when the proverbial dung hits the fan, or in the rare cases actually play the good guy who has something against the unatural perversion and reality unmaking that is Sorcery.
All that said what is it that the general playerbase wants to see come out of thier perticular flavor(in which were all entitled too) of RP with Sorcerers and Necromancers? (Would really appreciate the feedback from the playerbase to help me decide where to go with my own character.)
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
IMO, This view is what will push the necromancer class to the same fate as the thieves went way back when (which I'd like to see thieves catch flak again).
Sorcery is viewed to lightly by the playerbase also IMO, I think because of this you have statements like this...
>1) The Hero class is pretty much okay with Sorcery. Necromancy is just a subset of Sorcery with bad press.
>2) The Hero class is pretty good at killing scary things. Necromancy, to a certain extent, is just another scary thing.
>Sure, some might be protective of their lessers, or just have strong feelings against Sorcery, or just hate Necromancy in particular. Then again, some heroes really care about how bad Thievery is, or are willing to do anything for the people who are stronger than they are, or remember where they came from. Then again, some heroes really hate the government, some heroes might consider Moon Mages a threat, and some heroes might want to overthrow their guild and instate a new Kalag. But they're pretty much left to their own whims when making those kinds of commitments.
This I do understand, in that game there are alot of people who play the fence and just lack consistancy in their characters. If there were more people who could take the necro stance and handle all the repercussions that come with it I don't think we'd be having this thread at all. However from what I see in my interactions most the players will either be entirely indifferent to a Sorcerer/Necromancer, support Sorcery/Necromancy yet policy play and hide behind PvP Stance when the proverbial dung hits the fan, or in the rare cases actually play the good guy who has something against the unatural perversion and reality unmaking that is Sorcery.
All that said what is it that the general playerbase wants to see come out of thier perticular flavor(in which were all entitled too) of RP with Sorcerers and Necromancers? (Would really appreciate the feedback from the playerbase to help me decide where to go with my own character.)
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
I'll preface this by saying that I played a Thief back in the heyday, and have primarily played a Necromancer since the guild's release. I've played quietly, with careful use of spells and no use of zombies/mudmen while hunting. I've also been outed once in Therengia by someone stumbling into a hunting area and counting one too many arrange messages for a Warrior Mage.
I like having to hide. I like having to prepare and think out how to be careful enough not to be outed, and I like the game of cat-and-mouse. I like being suspicious of everyone I stumble across. I don't want people to be complacent about Necromancy -- that gets rid of the fun, as well as the RP. Where I personally draw the line is playability. At the end of the day, I want to still be able to play this game, advance, and meet my goals. Otherwise, there's 0 point in playing a Necromancer, because it's not like Necromancers come out of the gate PvP ready. With that in mind, I think the "core essentials" of the game should be readily available.
Once I get to the point where I'm ready to hold a Necromantic coming out party, I should still be able to hunt, attend festivals, and so on, provided I'm keeping a low profile and not doing anything overtly necromantic. The "Patrols" of hunting grounds I've encountered were all conducted by people who knew they dramatically outranked the hunters, which I see as roughly the equivalent of if I were to take a zombie out to Goblins and start murdering novices -- there's no sport, and the goal is just to be a jerk, not to fulfill RP. Similarly, if someone is going to park an alt in an area where you see Necromancers, say at a festival or somewhere in one of the guilds, just to collect names and report.
The key, of course, is the words "keeping a low profile." The moment I have spiny, glowing ridges or a pus-spewing eye in town with a zombie and mudman running amok, I expect to be hunted. I expect people to search me out, and I expect no place to be safe, and to try to kill me -- and if I die, and go back to keeping a low profile, I expect that day's hunt to end, and I can go back to business. I don't expect huggles or friendliness from a town's inhabitants, but I do need to be able to keep playing Dragonrealms as that character. I even look at provincial bannings as a little overboard, especially if they result from looking at a collected pile or counting arrange messages -- as that impedes one's ability to participate in the game even when keeping that low profile.
As for supporters? Meh. I don't need your sympathy or aid. My character actively avoids supporters because they're a good way to get outed (Jim's a known Necro supporter, therefore anyone around Jim might actually be a Necro).
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
I like having to hide. I like having to prepare and think out how to be careful enough not to be outed, and I like the game of cat-and-mouse. I like being suspicious of everyone I stumble across. I don't want people to be complacent about Necromancy -- that gets rid of the fun, as well as the RP. Where I personally draw the line is playability. At the end of the day, I want to still be able to play this game, advance, and meet my goals. Otherwise, there's 0 point in playing a Necromancer, because it's not like Necromancers come out of the gate PvP ready. With that in mind, I think the "core essentials" of the game should be readily available.
Once I get to the point where I'm ready to hold a Necromantic coming out party, I should still be able to hunt, attend festivals, and so on, provided I'm keeping a low profile and not doing anything overtly necromantic. The "Patrols" of hunting grounds I've encountered were all conducted by people who knew they dramatically outranked the hunters, which I see as roughly the equivalent of if I were to take a zombie out to Goblins and start murdering novices -- there's no sport, and the goal is just to be a jerk, not to fulfill RP. Similarly, if someone is going to park an alt in an area where you see Necromancers, say at a festival or somewhere in one of the guilds, just to collect names and report.
The key, of course, is the words "keeping a low profile." The moment I have spiny, glowing ridges or a pus-spewing eye in town with a zombie and mudman running amok, I expect to be hunted. I expect people to search me out, and I expect no place to be safe, and to try to kill me -- and if I die, and go back to keeping a low profile, I expect that day's hunt to end, and I can go back to business. I don't expect huggles or friendliness from a town's inhabitants, but I do need to be able to keep playing Dragonrealms as that character. I even look at provincial bannings as a little overboard, especially if they result from looking at a collected pile or counting arrange messages -- as that impedes one's ability to participate in the game even when keeping that low profile.
As for supporters? Meh. I don't need your sympathy or aid. My character actively avoids supporters because they're a good way to get outed (Jim's a known Necro supporter, therefore anyone around Jim might actually be a Necro).
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
>The key, of course, is the words "keeping a low profile."
The point of this thread is even when you don't keep a low profile your still all good, I haven't heard of a hunting ganking since I came back to DR last year. And the 'paranoia' is basically in your head. Most the people out there even if they take a stance against necromancy are just gunna talk at you and shake thier finger.
> I even look at provincial bannings as a little overboard
Why? They aren't enforced by the Orders or militant factions unless they >report HALP HALP!
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
The point of this thread is even when you don't keep a low profile your still all good, I haven't heard of a hunting ganking since I came back to DR last year. And the 'paranoia' is basically in your head. Most the people out there even if they take a stance against necromancy are just gunna talk at you and shake thier finger.
> I even look at provincial bannings as a little overboard
Why? They aren't enforced by the Orders or militant factions unless they >report HALP HALP!
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
> Where did you encounter these?
Theren. Granted, it was quite a bit ago -- I've not gone back to Theren since, because of the bad taste it left when a character numerous circles my senior came into a hunting area many times over the course of a weekend loaded for bear and waiting for a few minutes each time to see who he could catch, and once he did manage to walk in as I was using Preserve and noticed the extra arrange message, he demanded I collect a pile to prove I wasn't a Necromancer, because I didn't have enough DO to set him off via a Perceive (I refused, naturally). I also wasn't aware the "bannings" guard members handed out were non-enforceable. I was told that the court would be notified, and thus the GMs. It actually accomplished driving me away from being willing to roleplay with players in an entire province, which seemed a bit counterproductive for the whole experience.
In any case, this isn't a conflict thread, so I'm not going further into specifics. I simply brought up the experience to give an example of zeal going a bit overboard and screwing with the player experience.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
Theren. Granted, it was quite a bit ago -- I've not gone back to Theren since, because of the bad taste it left when a character numerous circles my senior came into a hunting area many times over the course of a weekend loaded for bear and waiting for a few minutes each time to see who he could catch, and once he did manage to walk in as I was using Preserve and noticed the extra arrange message, he demanded I collect a pile to prove I wasn't a Necromancer, because I didn't have enough DO to set him off via a Perceive (I refused, naturally). I also wasn't aware the "bannings" guard members handed out were non-enforceable. I was told that the court would be notified, and thus the GMs. It actually accomplished driving me away from being willing to roleplay with players in an entire province, which seemed a bit counterproductive for the whole experience.
In any case, this isn't a conflict thread, so I'm not going further into specifics. I simply brought up the experience to give an example of zeal going a bit overboard and screwing with the player experience.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
>I've not gone back to Theren since
Try it, its quite a bit different now.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
Try it, its quite a bit different now.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
>>Your overgeneralizing and backing the 'hero' class into the neat little niche that YOU see it in.
Eh, I don't think so. How often do heroes express remorse or stress after killing off a horde of humanoid enemies? How often are they sincerely concerned about dying, beyond losing spell scrolls memorized? How often do heroes consider jail fines as more than a minor speedbump/inconvenience? How concerned are heroes about the magical devices/spells/etc they use on a daily basis? How often do heroes see things like being magically healed/revived/restored/enhanced as rote even while in communities that are diminished/decimated/deteriorated/etc?
Ever wonder how a commoner would feel if they saw an Empath self-casting spells that are unnecessary outside of improving magical skill when they sure could use some actual help themselves? How dirt farmer Bob might feel when a hero gathers up a giant pile of perfectly good jadice flowers only to flatten it moments later?
Hell, how many commoners die on a daily basis while the Immortals are expending effort reviving people who proactively choose to stick their faces into a pit of snakes for sport?
Necromancers are arguably what happens when heroes start getting sick of the Immortals having all the power. What happens when the general population gets sick of the way heroes act?
>>IMO, This view is what will push the necromancer class to the same fate as the thieves went way back when (which I'd like to see thieves catch flak again).
I think it's important to recognize that just because I feel the hero class is prone to viewing things this way, I don't believe that means society as a whole is going to also feel the same way. In fact, I would look forward to seeing society think of this as the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to having the hero class generally walk all over them on a daily basis and ignoring the things they feel absolutely terrify them on a daily basis.
To me, the major difference between Thieves and Necromancers is that the background players, aka society, takes issue with Necromancers. No level of apathy created by the hero class of society will sway that.
>>Sorcery is viewed to lightly by the playerbase also IMO
Keep in mind that some guilds also see it lightly. Once again, the difference between the hero[/guilded] class and general society.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Eh, I don't think so. How often do heroes express remorse or stress after killing off a horde of humanoid enemies? How often are they sincerely concerned about dying, beyond losing spell scrolls memorized? How often do heroes consider jail fines as more than a minor speedbump/inconvenience? How concerned are heroes about the magical devices/spells/etc they use on a daily basis? How often do heroes see things like being magically healed/revived/restored/enhanced as rote even while in communities that are diminished/decimated/deteriorated/etc?
Ever wonder how a commoner would feel if they saw an Empath self-casting spells that are unnecessary outside of improving magical skill when they sure could use some actual help themselves? How dirt farmer Bob might feel when a hero gathers up a giant pile of perfectly good jadice flowers only to flatten it moments later?
Hell, how many commoners die on a daily basis while the Immortals are expending effort reviving people who proactively choose to stick their faces into a pit of snakes for sport?
Necromancers are arguably what happens when heroes start getting sick of the Immortals having all the power. What happens when the general population gets sick of the way heroes act?
>>IMO, This view is what will push the necromancer class to the same fate as the thieves went way back when (which I'd like to see thieves catch flak again).
I think it's important to recognize that just because I feel the hero class is prone to viewing things this way, I don't believe that means society as a whole is going to also feel the same way. In fact, I would look forward to seeing society think of this as the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to having the hero class generally walk all over them on a daily basis and ignoring the things they feel absolutely terrify them on a daily basis.
To me, the major difference between Thieves and Necromancers is that the background players, aka society, takes issue with Necromancers. No level of apathy created by the hero class of society will sway that.
>>Sorcery is viewed to lightly by the playerbase also IMO
Keep in mind that some guilds also see it lightly. Once again, the difference between the hero[/guilded] class and general society.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
>>All that said what is it that the general playerbase wants to see come out of thier perticular flavor(in which were all entitled too) of RP with Sorcerers and Necromancers? (Would really appreciate the feedback from the playerbase to help me decide where to go with my own character.)
I would like to second this question. If you (the general non-necromancer you) could plot out a great necromancer interaction, how would it look? What kind of scenario's would team anti-necro have fun playing out?
I would like to second this question. If you (the general non-necromancer you) could plot out a great necromancer interaction, how would it look? What kind of scenario's would team anti-necro have fun playing out?
>I would like to second this question. If you (the general non-necromancer you) could plot out a great necromancer interaction, how would it look? What kind of scenario's would team anti-necro have fun playing out?
So thirded. Additionally, I'm well aware I can't provide the PvP experience you're likely accustomed to that provokes a witch hunt, and so I simply don't publicly romance the necks. What can I do to enhance your play, other than just create a nameless target to burn periodically? I'm plotting my Necromantic coming-out party idly as we speak, and I'd love to hear suggestions.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
So thirded. Additionally, I'm well aware I can't provide the PvP experience you're likely accustomed to that provokes a witch hunt, and so I simply don't publicly romance the necks. What can I do to enhance your play, other than just create a nameless target to burn periodically? I'm plotting my Necromantic coming-out party idly as we speak, and I'd love to hear suggestions.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
I always felt the notion of building favor among people, only to destroy it for something related to the Great Work would make for great RP. Madigan posted a great story early in the release of the guild about a squire of his turning from the Immortals because someone the squire loved was dead and couldn't be brought back. My ideal outing would be akin to taking all the friends and buddies and chums and flirtatious conversations I've accumulated, and show them as I betray their trust in me.
That's the Necromancers path; sacrificing everything, everything, for the Great Work.
That's the Necromancers path; sacrificing everything, everything, for the Great Work.
I still hope that one day I log into the forums and see that the GMs have released a real alignment system. Then ya can have your necro lovers, murderers, etc justly aligned evil or whatnot, and let them share similar SO guidelines.
That said, this game is a different beast compared to many other games with pvp. It isn't uncommon for someone to backtrain a weapon that is hundreds of ranks lower than their normal gear. If a person bumps into a character (necro or otherwise) that is there learning their first offense/defense, its not really a fair fight and the loser will probably be rather depressed unless there was meaningful rp that led up to the unglorious stomping. Part of the joys of a system that has people learn combat skills at different rates than others while providing no real way of judging a players strength. I like not knowing how strong someone is, dislike how zombies can be appraised, but sometimes wonder if there should be some sort of 'newbie' protection that weighs the strength of people that are attempting to attack one another. Not saying that it should last forever, but should somehow perhaps delay the ability to go from 'oh, your a necro or some other monster' advance, swing, stun, swing, dead.
>I would like to second this question. If you (the general non-necromancer you) could plot out a great necromancer interaction, how would it look? What kind of scenario's would team anti-necro have fun playing out?
I don't know how this could be done or not, but I guess I'd like to see the Necro guild as a whole work to accomplish something on a yearly basis. The Great Work is a great plot device and all, but it's something I think is never supposed to actually be accomplished (it's always just out of reach, never quite getting accomplished). So maybe the guild gets some smaller type of plot device that can be accomplished that maybe ties into The Great Work or maybe it doesn't, but whatever it might be, if achieved during the course of play the guild benefits as a whole in some tangible way at the end of the year.
So, lets say that in order for a new Necro guild to open in Theren/Ilithi/Qi/Forf at the end of the year, they need to collectively accomplish a task. The heroes on the other hand want better defenses for their city for invasions they need to accomplish a task. Whichever team completes their tasks throughout the year first or fastest "wins". Or if there's a new task every month, whichever team has the most points by the end of the year gets their reward.
could be stupid, could be too difficult to do in DR, I don't know, but I just see it as both sides would be working towards a goal that they want and actively want to stop the other side from getting their reward.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
I don't know how this could be done or not, but I guess I'd like to see the Necro guild as a whole work to accomplish something on a yearly basis. The Great Work is a great plot device and all, but it's something I think is never supposed to actually be accomplished (it's always just out of reach, never quite getting accomplished). So maybe the guild gets some smaller type of plot device that can be accomplished that maybe ties into The Great Work or maybe it doesn't, but whatever it might be, if achieved during the course of play the guild benefits as a whole in some tangible way at the end of the year.
So, lets say that in order for a new Necro guild to open in Theren/Ilithi/Qi/Forf at the end of the year, they need to collectively accomplish a task. The heroes on the other hand want better defenses for their city for invasions they need to accomplish a task. Whichever team completes their tasks throughout the year first or fastest "wins". Or if there's a new task every month, whichever team has the most points by the end of the year gets their reward.
could be stupid, could be too difficult to do in DR, I don't know, but I just see it as both sides would be working towards a goal that they want and actively want to stop the other side from getting their reward.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
> So, lets say that in order for a new Necro guild to open in Theren/Ilithi/Qi/Forf at the end of the year, they need to collectively accomplish a task. The heroes on the other hand want better defenses for their city for invasions they need to accomplish a task. Whichever team completes their tasks throughout the year first or fastest "wins". Or if there's a new task every month, whichever team has the most points by the end of the year gets their reward.
I really like that idea, but with a twist. There's a huge disparity in both player numbers and circle between the Philosophers and everyone else. What if Team Good Guy had to choose between putting heat on the Philosophers and devoting additional resources to being able to repel the Elpazi? The Philosophers have a similar choice, putting resources into expanding or in purifying their work, i.e. getting USOL or DEVO as a spell rather than just a scroll.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
I really like that idea, but with a twist. There's a huge disparity in both player numbers and circle between the Philosophers and everyone else. What if Team Good Guy had to choose between putting heat on the Philosophers and devoting additional resources to being able to repel the Elpazi? The Philosophers have a similar choice, putting resources into expanding or in purifying their work, i.e. getting USOL or DEVO as a spell rather than just a scroll.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
>Good is the new bad
I'm officially a good guy now, everyone roll cleric!
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
I'm officially a good guy now, everyone roll cleric!
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
@BLCKGRD4:
I think this is a brilliant idea. I'm thinking of how magic users had to charge the temple orbs; it would be awesome if collectively, Necromancers had to work towards one task, while everyone else either had to stop them, or work towards another (I dunno how you balance this), and the victor gets some special bonus/reward/plot twist.
>Hehehe, well, apparently a 'good' necromancer isn't a valid option.
Inquisitorial Adjutant Khiol just arrived.
>
>cack
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
Inquisitorial Adjutant Khiol just arrived.
>
>cack
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
>>I would like to second this question. If you (the general non-necromancer you) could plot out a great necromancer interaction, how would it look? What kind of scenario's would team anti-necro have fun playing out?
Personally I enjoy a lot of different scenarios. I've done everything from gweth/ring banter while hunting an invisible necro, to having a tense discussion that never escalated to violence, to being attacked and just duking it out. My preference is for some kind of talking or attempt at talking preceding battle and yeah, avoiding it while hunting is nice.
As for a good "outing", I'd love to see someone get close and friendly with a group and then betray them. Or start a romance and have it ripped apart. Create some real, bitter enemies. Maybe even orchestrate an event that forces your commoner character to choose, publicly, to join the guild. Or start some "philosophy" discussions with a small group that very slowly turn toward evil.
I would just be very careful beforehand that whatever group you betray is heavy RP and will understand that it's a purely IC action.
Oh and I'd be happy to provide a throwaway character if any Necro out there needs someone to sacrifice.
-- Player of Eyuve
Personally I enjoy a lot of different scenarios. I've done everything from gweth/ring banter while hunting an invisible necro, to having a tense discussion that never escalated to violence, to being attacked and just duking it out. My preference is for some kind of talking or attempt at talking preceding battle and yeah, avoiding it while hunting is nice.
As for a good "outing", I'd love to see someone get close and friendly with a group and then betray them. Or start a romance and have it ripped apart. Create some real, bitter enemies. Maybe even orchestrate an event that forces your commoner character to choose, publicly, to join the guild. Or start some "philosophy" discussions with a small group that very slowly turn toward evil.
I would just be very careful beforehand that whatever group you betray is heavy RP and will understand that it's a purely IC action.
Oh and I'd be happy to provide a throwaway character if any Necro out there needs someone to sacrifice.
-- Player of Eyuve
Good thread, Vin. I know I'm repeating a couple things already stated, but oh well.
First, I think you're best off trying as you can to play your character the right way, period. No offense meant to Zoluren, but it has always been the place with the most newbs, particularly when it comes to RP (not to say that it doesn't have or hasn't had some of the absolute best too). In a position of high visibility there, you're going to be exposed to it more than you'd volunteer for, but it might help to OOC whisper people too. A lot of people look up to you and will change their play style some when you give them a reason. Others won't.
As an example, when I was a newb, I was standing at the Crossing ranger guild begging for someone to shoot me in the chest (I wanted a pet bleeder to tend). A guy shot and killed me and another older character there laughed. I asked him what was so funny. He whispered to me that he thought it was great because he thought I was being jarringly OOC asking to get shot. He was right, but before he said anything, I hadn't considered it all. I wasn't really thinking at that level even though I thought I was RPing.
I don't think ignoring it is the answer, even if it's a pain to deal with. Loudly call it out for what it is. Be the example you want other people to take up. Not everyone will, and it will cost you IC popularity and will cause drama, but it's just like you always say about people getting shot etc, the RP is what you make of it. You're in a leadership position. Lament the corruption to the Princess. Yammer for more funding for the inquisition. Etc.
Just my thoughts on it. I found it very difficult to play in an official leadership position and stay true to my character concept. OOC I like to involve lots of people and am tolerant of different play styles etc but that wars with Traim's perspective on things a lot of the time. It's tough to stick to your concept if it means being an unpopular leader, and I'm not sure I should tell you anything about it because I'm not sure I did it half-well.
First, I think you're best off trying as you can to play your character the right way, period. No offense meant to Zoluren, but it has always been the place with the most newbs, particularly when it comes to RP (not to say that it doesn't have or hasn't had some of the absolute best too). In a position of high visibility there, you're going to be exposed to it more than you'd volunteer for, but it might help to OOC whisper people too. A lot of people look up to you and will change their play style some when you give them a reason. Others won't.
As an example, when I was a newb, I was standing at the Crossing ranger guild begging for someone to shoot me in the chest (I wanted a pet bleeder to tend). A guy shot and killed me and another older character there laughed. I asked him what was so funny. He whispered to me that he thought it was great because he thought I was being jarringly OOC asking to get shot. He was right, but before he said anything, I hadn't considered it all. I wasn't really thinking at that level even though I thought I was RPing.
I don't think ignoring it is the answer, even if it's a pain to deal with. Loudly call it out for what it is. Be the example you want other people to take up. Not everyone will, and it will cost you IC popularity and will cause drama, but it's just like you always say about people getting shot etc, the RP is what you make of it. You're in a leadership position. Lament the corruption to the Princess. Yammer for more funding for the inquisition. Etc.
Just my thoughts on it. I found it very difficult to play in an official leadership position and stay true to my character concept. OOC I like to involve lots of people and am tolerant of different play styles etc but that wars with Traim's perspective on things a lot of the time. It's tough to stick to your concept if it means being an unpopular leader, and I'm not sure I should tell you anything about it because I'm not sure I did it half-well.
I deleted and re-made this post because some of my wording was weird.
It was mentioned that on-the-fence about Necro people weren't really chiming in during the thread (which is a great thread by the way) so here's one that's a little closer to the fence at least.
Talk to him, on the surface, Nithhogr opposes Necromancy. Dig a little deeper and it's not an opposition based out of conflicting morals or viewing them as evil but one from viewing Necros as 'pitiable by choice'. Nith's morals are a bit skewed from the baseline in the first place but he doesn’t condone things that Necros do, it's more that while he does believe that the ends can justify the means in some cases, his problem with Necromancers are that he knows (as an Empath) that their means aren't justified because they'll never get to the ends they seek, only Empaths can reach immortal (not Immortal) status and the Necros are just trying (poorly) to emulate Empathy in their own perverted fashion.
But for the flip of a coin (RP speaking) Nith could have been a Necro if his life had lead him down just a slightly different path than the one that led to the Empaths.
It's a dislike of Necromancy born out of finding their methods fundamentally flawed.
I'm very much hoping that the current state of the Empath Guild leads into the dichotomy between Necros and Empaths. The close link between the two is one of the major things that the guild wants kept quiet anyway.
I don't speak much of the interaction between Necros/supporers and 'the good guys' because Nith doesn't have enough skills (or the ability to hurt people without shock) in order to do more than tell them to leave.
--
Player of Leech Farmer Nithhogr
It was mentioned that on-the-fence about Necro people weren't really chiming in during the thread (which is a great thread by the way) so here's one that's a little closer to the fence at least.
Talk to him, on the surface, Nithhogr opposes Necromancy. Dig a little deeper and it's not an opposition based out of conflicting morals or viewing them as evil but one from viewing Necros as 'pitiable by choice'. Nith's morals are a bit skewed from the baseline in the first place but he doesn’t condone things that Necros do, it's more that while he does believe that the ends can justify the means in some cases, his problem with Necromancers are that he knows (as an Empath) that their means aren't justified because they'll never get to the ends they seek, only Empaths can reach immortal (not Immortal) status and the Necros are just trying (poorly) to emulate Empathy in their own perverted fashion.
But for the flip of a coin (RP speaking) Nith could have been a Necro if his life had lead him down just a slightly different path than the one that led to the Empaths.
It's a dislike of Necromancy born out of finding their methods fundamentally flawed.
I'm very much hoping that the current state of the Empath Guild leads into the dichotomy between Necros and Empaths. The close link between the two is one of the major things that the guild wants kept quiet anyway.
I don't speak much of the interaction between Necros/supporers and 'the good guys' because Nith doesn't have enough skills (or the ability to hurt people without shock) in order to do more than tell them to leave.
--
Player of Leech Farmer Nithhogr
Thank you Vinjince for starting this thread and for everyone elses contributions. It's been one of the best reads on the forums in a long time. The posts caused me to contemplate how and why I play Z the way she's played now as compared to how she was when I first started actively playing her, and a lot of the interactions playing a "good guy" over the last couple of years. I echo a lot of what Sebestyen said in his posts.
1) The Question of what "would be a good interaction." Look to Zerreck and his overall way of handling himself. He comes in... rps with some talk first... unleashes his Evil... the Good guys respond, we get a bunch dead, then he gets dead and it might go on a bit longer (depending on how long it takes the good guys to deal with him). The great thing about Zerreck's player is, he gets it when it is time for Zerreck to pack up his zombies and head out. I know there have been times in the past where the "good guys" have hounded the recently dead necros and made it impossible for them to get back into fighting shape (guilty of this myself only because I wasn't aware how necro's functioned, once I knew, I backed Zynara off once they were dead). I think this is a part of the flaw of the necro's generally. Team Good Guy gets smashed into smithereehns, we finally get success.. and in the case of the Necros who just can't get a grip and leave after an hour or 2 and stretch it into 4+ hours of their "fun".. they get up from their death, go heal up while hunting.. instead of leaving the area, they go hunt and come back -- and we have leave them alone to do it.. and then unless they're like Zerreck who tempers his fun and leaves after he's created a little chaos.. we're in for another round, ad nauseum. Sepharus has been pretty good to deal with, and a few others in the past.. it's just the ones who won't leave that leave a bad taste in everyones mouth.
2) I agree with Vinjince and others, the apathy that is spreading throughout the environment when it comes to necromancy does actually have the "good guys" being looked on as in the wrong for rping that "this scourge must be handled!" I appreciate that the GMs can't be everywhere at every time and it's been said they would like to have a "heads up"... so thanks for saying that, however I'm generally disinclined to use the OOC mechanic 911 "Report" and the "accuse necromancy" system has often had a less than satisfactory results - and a lot of gathering places aren't necessarily in justice zones with active npc guards. May I suggest the following: There is a "rumor" system (or was) -- what if there was a way that anyone could whisper to a "merchant" "guard" or whomever, that someone is speaking inappropriately about necromancy, aka supporting it, or is a necro and is loitering in a populated place... this "rumoring or tipping off" wouldn't necessarily create the SO for them, but could be used like the rumor system and a message would be in the box of the GM that handles stuff like that.. so they could get the knowledge to watch while maintaining an IC way to do it. Not sure if this is feasible.
3) But if it were feasible, a way to make it the "right thing to do", could be that if someone was "hounded" the ones who happened to rumor would sense the hounds at work (death window) and receive a "pirp" or some other "reward". Again, the idea being that this isn't going to negatively affect the character was rumored about directly unless they continue to do whatever it is they're doing; they aren't able to know who rumored them; the GMs get a notification icly and there's potentiall a small benefit to the rumorer. So instead of using the "911" OOC system to alert the entire GM populace, it could be like an IC "tipline" configured so whomever handles this kind of thing, knows about it. It also would avoid the ridiculousness of a character being falsely accused of necromancy by malicious groups of troublemakers who wish to create "fun" for themselves, because a "system" isn't adding on the SO, a GM is, if it's warranted. Additionally, if someone were trying to falsely accuse someone, it could backlash onto them being hounded -- you know.. for crying wolf, etc. This is sounding too utopian. The other thing, there could be levels of SO added, so that those under scrutiny could "sense" things were changing for them (not sure if this is in place or possible already). So before the hounds getcha, you know you might want to temper how your character is acting (sorta like getting a SEND for talking out of line, but not OOC).
Anyway, Thanks again for a good read and for the necros we love to hate. Keeps life interesting.
1) The Question of what "would be a good interaction." Look to Zerreck and his overall way of handling himself. He comes in... rps with some talk first... unleashes his Evil... the Good guys respond, we get a bunch dead, then he gets dead and it might go on a bit longer (depending on how long it takes the good guys to deal with him). The great thing about Zerreck's player is, he gets it when it is time for Zerreck to pack up his zombies and head out. I know there have been times in the past where the "good guys" have hounded the recently dead necros and made it impossible for them to get back into fighting shape (guilty of this myself only because I wasn't aware how necro's functioned, once I knew, I backed Zynara off once they were dead). I think this is a part of the flaw of the necro's generally. Team Good Guy gets smashed into smithereehns, we finally get success.. and in the case of the Necros who just can't get a grip and leave after an hour or 2 and stretch it into 4+ hours of their "fun".. they get up from their death, go heal up while hunting.. instead of leaving the area, they go hunt and come back -- and we have leave them alone to do it.. and then unless they're like Zerreck who tempers his fun and leaves after he's created a little chaos.. we're in for another round, ad nauseum. Sepharus has been pretty good to deal with, and a few others in the past.. it's just the ones who won't leave that leave a bad taste in everyones mouth.
2) I agree with Vinjince and others, the apathy that is spreading throughout the environment when it comes to necromancy does actually have the "good guys" being looked on as in the wrong for rping that "this scourge must be handled!" I appreciate that the GMs can't be everywhere at every time and it's been said they would like to have a "heads up"... so thanks for saying that, however I'm generally disinclined to use the OOC mechanic 911 "Report" and the "accuse necromancy" system has often had a less than satisfactory results - and a lot of gathering places aren't necessarily in justice zones with active npc guards. May I suggest the following: There is a "rumor" system (or was) -- what if there was a way that anyone could whisper to a "merchant" "guard" or whomever, that someone is speaking inappropriately about necromancy, aka supporting it, or is a necro and is loitering in a populated place... this "rumoring or tipping off" wouldn't necessarily create the SO for them, but could be used like the rumor system and a message would be in the box of the GM that handles stuff like that.. so they could get the knowledge to watch while maintaining an IC way to do it. Not sure if this is feasible.
3) But if it were feasible, a way to make it the "right thing to do", could be that if someone was "hounded" the ones who happened to rumor would sense the hounds at work (death window) and receive a "pirp" or some other "reward". Again, the idea being that this isn't going to negatively affect the character was rumored about directly unless they continue to do whatever it is they're doing; they aren't able to know who rumored them; the GMs get a notification icly and there's potentiall a small benefit to the rumorer. So instead of using the "911" OOC system to alert the entire GM populace, it could be like an IC "tipline" configured so whomever handles this kind of thing, knows about it. It also would avoid the ridiculousness of a character being falsely accused of necromancy by malicious groups of troublemakers who wish to create "fun" for themselves, because a "system" isn't adding on the SO, a GM is, if it's warranted. Additionally, if someone were trying to falsely accuse someone, it could backlash onto them being hounded -- you know.. for crying wolf, etc. This is sounding too utopian. The other thing, there could be levels of SO added, so that those under scrutiny could "sense" things were changing for them (not sure if this is in place or possible already). So before the hounds getcha, you know you might want to temper how your character is acting (sorta like getting a SEND for talking out of line, but not OOC).
Anyway, Thanks again for a good read and for the necros we love to hate. Keeps life interesting.
