Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Here's a little riddle based on DR:
My character sometimes goes on hours long hunting sessions. He begins these sessions at no burden, but this goes up over time, reaching Light Burden and then Somewhat Burdened before I stop. The encumbrance formula tells us that Light Burden is a larger range than None; it takes ~16% more stones to get from Light to Somewhat than it does to get from 0 to Light. And of course I don't start at 0, since I'm wearing armor and carrying weapons and whatnot. So you'd expect him to spend more time in the Light range than in the None range.
But this isn't what happens. The time it takes him to get from None to Light is noticeably longer than the time it takes him to get from Light to Somewhat. You might think this is because my killing rate slows down, perhaps because I start with my good weapons and then switch to my worse ones. But no, my rate of kills stays pretty much constant over time. So what is causing this strange behaviour?
questions:
do you pick up all skins/boxes/gems and coins?
do all skins/boxes/gems and coins weigh the same?
If not, have you tried only picking up skins/boxes/gems/coins which always weighs the same amount?
have you tried stripping to 0 weight (no items at all), and using only brawling to kill and picking up only coins (if all coins weigh the same)?
I'm certainly no brainiac, but I might try that before thinking something might be wrong, because if different loot items have or can have different weights, then there's too much variance. This type of test might take a very long time but it seems to me the only way to be certain of your assertion of a possible problem.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
do you pick up all skins/boxes/gems and coins?
do all skins/boxes/gems and coins weigh the same?
If not, have you tried only picking up skins/boxes/gems/coins which always weighs the same amount?
have you tried stripping to 0 weight (no items at all), and using only brawling to kill and picking up only coins (if all coins weigh the same)?
I'm certainly no brainiac, but I might try that before thinking something might be wrong, because if different loot items have or can have different weights, then there's too much variance. This type of test might take a very long time but it seems to me the only way to be certain of your assertion of a possible problem.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
>>So what is causing this strange behaviour?
I think your assessment of "none" for burden is off. None can sometimes appear to be a much rather large range than other steps.
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Encumbrance#Formulas
Going off their example of someone with 10 strength and 10 stamina. Let's say you're a cloth armor user and run around with 250 stone worth of stuff. You're at "no burden" from 0-480 stones, as well as 480-559. You'll hit light burden at 560 stones. You'll hit the next step at 640 stones. And another tier at 720 stones. So on every 80 stones.
As you get more strength/stamina, the ranges expand but so does the base level. With 20 strength/stamina you'll be at none from 0-960 stone, but that stays at none up until 1119 stone. You'll hit light at 1120 stone. Next step at 1280, then 1440, and every 160 stones after that. If you're still lugging around 250 stone worth of stuff, you'll definitely be at none for a lot longer than you will be at light.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think your assessment of "none" for burden is off. None can sometimes appear to be a much rather large range than other steps.
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Encumbrance#Formulas
Going off their example of someone with 10 strength and 10 stamina. Let's say you're a cloth armor user and run around with 250 stone worth of stuff. You're at "no burden" from 0-480 stones, as well as 480-559. You'll hit light burden at 560 stones. You'll hit the next step at 640 stones. And another tier at 720 stones. So on every 80 stones.
As you get more strength/stamina, the ranges expand but so does the base level. With 20 strength/stamina you'll be at none from 0-960 stone, but that stays at none up until 1119 stone. You'll hit light at 1120 stone. Next step at 1280, then 1440, and every 160 stones after that. If you're still lugging around 250 stone worth of stuff, you'll definitely be at none for a lot longer than you will be at light.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
> do you pick up all skins/boxes/gems and coins?
It's a skin only critter, and I grab them all.
> I'm certainly no brainiac, but I might try that before thinking something might be wrong,
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I know the answer, and it's not a bug. I just thought it would be a fun riddle to share.
It's a skin only critter, and I grab them all.
> I'm certainly no brainiac, but I might try that before thinking something might be wrong,
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I know the answer, and it's not a bug. I just thought it would be a fun riddle to share.
> You're at "no burden" from 0-480 stones, as well as 480-559. You'll hit light burden at 560 stones.
How are you getting 560 from that formula? Regardless, I think that's the wrong interpretation of the formula; it's the size of each level, not the threshold for it. In other words, you're a derivative off. The page used to say this, but looking at the history, I see that Dandin changed the explanation without adjusting the formula.
How are you getting 560 from that formula? Regardless, I think that's the wrong interpretation of the formula; it's the size of each level, not the threshold for it. In other words, you're a derivative off. The page used to say this, but looking at the history, I see that Dandin changed the explanation without adjusting the formula.
>>How are you getting 560 from that formula?
10(0.4(X+5)(Strength+Stamina) = stones needed to be needed no/light/etc burden.
For X, it starts at 1 for none, 2 for light, etc.
So, if we want to see at what point 10 strength and 10 stamina has you hit light burden... 10(0.4(2+5)(10+10)) -> 10(0.4(7)(20)) -> 560
The range of "for reals 0 burden you are literally holding nothing", which still registers in game as "none" to "none" is always going to be bigger than the ranges from none to light, light to somewhat, and beyond.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
10(0.4(X+5)(Strength+Stamina) = stones needed to be needed no/light/etc burden.
For X, it starts at 1 for none, 2 for light, etc.
So, if we want to see at what point 10 strength and 10 stamina has you hit light burden... 10(0.4(2+5)(10+10)) -> 10(0.4(7)(20)) -> 560
The range of "for reals 0 burden you are literally holding nothing", which still registers in game as "none" to "none" is always going to be bigger than the ranges from none to light, light to somewhat, and beyond.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>In other words, you're a derivative off.
This just means I'm off by a tier. It doesn't make the entire explanation wrong.
If the numbers start at 0 vs 1, you still start with a multiplier of 5. As long as each tier increases that value by 1, the first value's range is always going to be 5x the range of the other values.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This just means I'm off by a tier. It doesn't make the entire explanation wrong.
If the numbers start at 0 vs 1, you still start with a multiplier of 5. As long as each tier increases that value by 1, the first value's range is always going to be 5x the range of the other values.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
> So, if we want to see at what point 10 strength and 10 stamina has you hit light burden... 10(0.4(2+5)(10+10)) -> 10(0.4(7)(20)) -> 560
Here's what you're missing: "to determine the maximum number of stones your character can carry with a given encumbrance". Even if the current explanation is correct, that would mean Light ends at 560, not begins.
>>In other words, you're a derivative off.
>This just means I'm off by a tier.
That's not what it means at all. It means that None has a range of 480 stones: 0-479. Then Light has a range of 560 stones: 480-1039. Etc.
I'd test which interpretation of the formula is correct, but I'm in the middle of one of said hunting trips. Regardless, the riddle can be rephrased as: why does my burden (in stones) go up faster after I've hit Light burden than it does while I'm still at None?
Here's what you're missing: "to determine the maximum number of stones your character can carry with a given encumbrance". Even if the current explanation is correct, that would mean Light ends at 560, not begins.
>>In other words, you're a derivative off.
>This just means I'm off by a tier.
That's not what it means at all. It means that None has a range of 480 stones: 0-479. Then Light has a range of 560 stones: 480-1039. Etc.
I'd test which interpretation of the formula is correct, but I'm in the middle of one of said hunting trips. Regardless, the riddle can be rephrased as: why does my burden (in stones) go up faster after I've hit Light burden than it does while I'm still at None?
>>Here's what you're missing: "to determine the maximum number of stones your character can carry with a given encumbrance". Even if the current explanation is correct, that would mean Light ends at 560, not begins.
...but my point would still stand. The range for being at none is 0-479. The range for light would be 480-559. That's why you hit each tier past none faster than you hit light.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
...but my point would still stand. The range for being at none is 0-479. The range for light would be 480-559. That's why you hit each tier past none faster than you hit light.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>> The encumbrance formula tells us that Light Burden is a larger range than None; it takes ~16% more stones to get from Light to Somewhat than it does to get from 0 to Light.
What encumbrance formula is this? As noted above, the formula on Elanthipedia (if correct) would very clearly predict that you would go from Light to Somewhat encumbrance much faster than from None to Light. I've never done extensive testing, but the formula on Elanthipedia passes the sanity check for me. It definitely feels in the right ballpark.
Any formula claiming that the range from Light to Somewhat is 16% larger than 0 to Light is flat out wrong, I can tell you that for sure. Also, perhaps coincidence, but the Elanthipedia formula predicts that the range from Light to Somewhat is 16% of the range from 0 to Light. Maybe just a simple misunderstanding?
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
What encumbrance formula is this? As noted above, the formula on Elanthipedia (if correct) would very clearly predict that you would go from Light to Somewhat encumbrance much faster than from None to Light. I've never done extensive testing, but the formula on Elanthipedia passes the sanity check for me. It definitely feels in the right ballpark.
Any formula claiming that the range from Light to Somewhat is 16% larger than 0 to Light is flat out wrong, I can tell you that for sure. Also, perhaps coincidence, but the Elanthipedia formula predicts that the range from Light to Somewhat is 16% of the range from 0 to Light. Maybe just a simple misunderstanding?
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
> What encumbrance formula is this?
As noted above, the encumbrance formula (or rather the interpretation of it) that was on Elanthipedia three years ago. I was going off memory.
> That's why you hit each tier past none faster than you hit light.
Did you see the revised version of the riddle?
> Uh, just out of curiousity, do you use thrown? Isn't there still a burden related bug with lt or ht? If so, and you're cycling into that portion at roughly the same time, that could explain the oddness.
I do use thrown, but I cycle my weapons far faster than I change encumbrance levels. Even if that bug's still around, it's not the solution.
As noted above, the encumbrance formula (or rather the interpretation of it) that was on Elanthipedia three years ago. I was going off memory.
> That's why you hit each tier past none faster than you hit light.
Did you see the revised version of the riddle?
> Uh, just out of curiousity, do you use thrown? Isn't there still a burden related bug with lt or ht? If so, and you're cycling into that portion at roughly the same time, that could explain the oddness.
I do use thrown, but I cycle my weapons far faster than I change encumbrance levels. Even if that bug's still around, it's not the solution.
Clearly it's because you accrue phlogiston.
I win! (from Big Daddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HUvTp8ZcJs)
What do I win, a cookie? I sure hope it's a cookie.
That that we have our required youtube link to be in this thread, I'm interested in knowing the answer, because all I can see if that the range of burden decreases as you increase your level of burden. Is there something else involved?
Nikpack
I win! (from Big Daddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HUvTp8ZcJs)
What do I win, a cookie? I sure hope it's a cookie.
That that we have our required youtube link to be in this thread, I'm interested in knowing the answer, because all I can see if that the range of burden decreases as you increase your level of burden. Is there something else involved?
Nikpack
Okay, here's my take, ASSUMING the following:
Assumption 1. All burden levels are the same size. (This may require some testing in game but for the purposes of this riddle, let's assume it's true.)
Assumption 2. The rate of weight gain remains constant.
As far as I can tell, there are only two possible explanations for taking longer to go from None to Light than from Light to Somewhat, given the above.
1) The character is losing weight at a non-constant rate. Specifically, he loses more at the start and less later on. I suppose this could happen if the character is crafting in combat and throwing away the products, then stops when he's out of material or locks the skill. This seems unlikely, but I know that some people train with origami in combat.
2) He's under some kind of effect that changes one of the above two assumptions. The only one I can think of is Ease Burden. It would mean that EASE affects the None level differently from the other levels. Perhaps it just adds +500 stones to your None range while keeping the others the same.
-- Player of Eyuve
Assumption 1. All burden levels are the same size. (This may require some testing in game but for the purposes of this riddle, let's assume it's true.)
Assumption 2. The rate of weight gain remains constant.
As far as I can tell, there are only two possible explanations for taking longer to go from None to Light than from Light to Somewhat, given the above.
1) The character is losing weight at a non-constant rate. Specifically, he loses more at the start and less later on. I suppose this could happen if the character is crafting in combat and throwing away the products, then stops when he's out of material or locks the skill. This seems unlikely, but I know that some people train with origami in combat.
2) He's under some kind of effect that changes one of the above two assumptions. The only one I can think of is Ease Burden. It would mean that EASE affects the None level differently from the other levels. Perhaps it just adds +500 stones to your None range while keeping the others the same.
-- Player of Eyuve
Since it's been a few days I'll give the solution.
It's about bundle slots. During the early part of my hunt, my skins are going into tight bundles I'm wearing. Later in the hunt, I've filled all four of the slots I have available, so the bundles I make get stowed in my backpack. Since worn items, including bundles, get a significant weight reduction, I'm effectively generating weight slower in the beginning.
It's about bundle slots. During the early part of my hunt, my skins are going into tight bundles I'm wearing. Later in the hunt, I've filled all four of the slots I have available, so the bundles I make get stowed in my backpack. Since worn items, including bundles, get a significant weight reduction, I'm effectively generating weight slower in the beginning.
>>Assumption 1. All burden levels are the same size. (This may require some testing in game but for the purposes of this riddle, let's assume it's true.)
How about let's assume it's false. Because it is false. "None" is a MUCH larger range than every other range.
>>Oh, it was an actual riddle? Whoops.
Yeah that could've been an interesting actual riddle if it were worded differently. As it was phrased, the question of why it seems like Light to Somewhat burden is much faster than None to Light, had a very obvious answer of "ummm... because that's how burden works". I didn't even realize it was a trick question we were supposed to analyze
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
How about let's assume it's false. Because it is false. "None" is a MUCH larger range than every other range.
>>Oh, it was an actual riddle? Whoops.
Yeah that could've been an interesting actual riddle if it were worded differently. As it was phrased, the question of why it seems like Light to Somewhat burden is much faster than None to Light, had a very obvious answer of "ummm... because that's how burden works". I didn't even realize it was a trick question we were supposed to analyze
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
> I didn't even realize it was a trick question we were supposed to analyze
Allow me to quote myself from earlier in the thread:
>I know the answer, and it's not a bug. I just thought it would be a fun riddle to share.
And:
>Regardless, the riddle can be rephrased as: why does my burden (in stones) go up faster after I've hit Light burden than it does while I'm still at None?
Allow me to quote myself from earlier in the thread:
>I know the answer, and it's not a bug. I just thought it would be a fun riddle to share.
And:
>Regardless, the riddle can be rephrased as: why does my burden (in stones) go up faster after I've hit Light burden than it does while I'm still at None?
>>Allow me to quote myself from earlier in the thread:
Given the mindset of people around here, and how flourished some language can be at times, riddle didn't actually register as a real riddle. Especially given how the burden formula works when it comes to the distance from none-light vs light-somewhat and onward :P
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Given the mindset of people around here, and how flourished some language can be at times, riddle didn't actually register as a real riddle. Especially given how the burden formula works when it comes to the distance from none-light vs light-somewhat and onward :P
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
