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ReplyThe policy for stealing and profiles moving to open is not changing.
Conflicting needs to go in the appropriate folder, this is not that folder.
This discussion is done. Further posts here will be removed for cause.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
<<I know I am not alone, and if you're reading this as a fellow thief, you now know you aren't either. I've done my best to voice my concerns, and of yours, my brethren, that I have spoken with.
I'm a thief and I support the current system because there are other methods of sealing within the game.
<<Thief: a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it.
<<The act is synonymous with the guild, it is WHO we are. Fine, make them pvp open permanently, maybe more targets will lower the death rate and make it manageable. You may as well make healing a pvp open action as well, along with raising, demonstrating animal lore, casting spells, gating, singing, etc. If you don't like being stolen from, guard your freaking coins. I get stolen from all the time, you don't see me crying on the forums about it, do you? You like it this way because it cuts down significantly on theft, not because it makes sense in any conflict resolution sort of way.
One does not HAVE to steal from another character. There are plenty of shops and even a thief-only museum to exercise thieving skills without even getting near any PvP repercussions.
In fact I would go so far as organizing the different ways of stealing with the different actions of fighting as such:
*PvE: go hunt critters/mobs, steal from shops, steal in the Museum
*PvP: fight other characters, steal from other characters
Nikpack
I'm a thief and I support the current system because there are other methods of sealing within the game.
<<Thief: a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it.
<<The act is synonymous with the guild, it is WHO we are. Fine, make them pvp open permanently, maybe more targets will lower the death rate and make it manageable. You may as well make healing a pvp open action as well, along with raising, demonstrating animal lore, casting spells, gating, singing, etc. If you don't like being stolen from, guard your freaking coins. I get stolen from all the time, you don't see me crying on the forums about it, do you? You like it this way because it cuts down significantly on theft, not because it makes sense in any conflict resolution sort of way.
One does not HAVE to steal from another character. There are plenty of shops and even a thief-only museum to exercise thieving skills without even getting near any PvP repercussions.
In fact I would go so far as organizing the different ways of stealing with the different actions of fighting as such:
*PvE: go hunt critters/mobs, steal from shops, steal in the Museum
*PvP: fight other characters, steal from other characters
Nikpack
<<This appears to be a very skewed view. If you have characters lining up to kill you the moment you go open, you are doing something far more wrong then simple theft.>>
because nobody kills anyone for posting things they disagree with on the forums. RIGHT?
If you believe that i have a bridge south of the bank thats for sale. 500 plats and its yours.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
because nobody kills anyone for posting things they disagree with on the forums. RIGHT?
If you believe that i have a bridge south of the bank thats for sale. 500 plats and its yours.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
<<I'm not asking to cheat, I'll take my punches when I screw up, but I expect anonymity when I EARN it.The big illusion in all of this is that somehow either your coins are safer, or now thieves can't escape engagement through some loophole. The fact is the only thieves who steal now are the ones who will snuff you out like a candle if you don't like it. They grab even after they've been caught, daring you to do something about it. All this has done is eliminated small-timers, and created an RP void in the middle circles for players who want to steal/RP at their own level but don't, because doing so means they are forced to contend with players who will mop the floor with them. >>
This.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
This.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
<<Thought exercise time. Let's grant you the (erroneous) assertion that being set to open is a punishment. The punishment is not for stealing. The punishment is for forcing conflict on others that may not desire it at that time.>>
the point is, if you train to be sufficiently stealthy, you are not "forcing conflict" on someone else. Granted you are if you are caught.
I have absolutely no problem with getting caught stealing setting the thief to open. The problem is for the person who is not caught. Who is doing so - low profile - and stealtihly -- as the guild was originally set up <you DO know that "mark" was originally only usable on PCs and not on shops and such>.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
the point is, if you train to be sufficiently stealthy, you are not "forcing conflict" on someone else. Granted you are if you are caught.
I have absolutely no problem with getting caught stealing setting the thief to open. The problem is for the person who is not caught. Who is doing so - low profile - and stealtihly -- as the guild was originally set up <you DO know that "mark" was originally only usable on PCs and not on shops and such>.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
sorry, but i hadn't read the forums for a few days <busy in rl>, so since i post as I go along, i replied as I saw.
Being responsive to issues long-time players are concerned about would be good customer service. Clearly there are many long-time thieves that did not feel that this was a good change, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue that is upsetting and they have felt the need to address upon their return, as this player did.
Rather than just state "the policy is not changing", perhaps a good hard look at it might be more indicitive of addressing customer concerns.
And with that, that's all she wrote.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
Being responsive to issues long-time players are concerned about would be good customer service. Clearly there are many long-time thieves that did not feel that this was a good change, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue that is upsetting and they have felt the need to address upon their return, as this player did.
Rather than just state "the policy is not changing", perhaps a good hard look at it might be more indicitive of addressing customer concerns.
And with that, that's all she wrote.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
That was actually a pretty good discussion in the beginning. Bobthesnob actually made me think about the issue a bit more.
From my perspective, you made some ground with the basic argument of "don't get caught, then not open" vs. "get caught and I am fine with all consequences".
Some great replies as well, in particular I liked PB's take on the situation. Of course, the thread enjoyed the typical "you are doing it wrong" and "you don't understand" which are fundamental in any internet communication I suppose.
I am of the personal opinion that any "first strike" action should equal open for a while, this would include stealing in my opinion.
However, I think it is always good to discuss existing policies and whether they should remain a policy or not. Frankly, I rather enjoy someone arguing an unpopular position who can do it well.
Madigan
From my perspective, you made some ground with the basic argument of "don't get caught, then not open" vs. "get caught and I am fine with all consequences".
Some great replies as well, in particular I liked PB's take on the situation. Of course, the thread enjoyed the typical "you are doing it wrong" and "you don't understand" which are fundamental in any internet communication I suppose.
I am of the personal opinion that any "first strike" action should equal open for a while, this would include stealing in my opinion.
However, I think it is always good to discuss existing policies and whether they should remain a policy or not. Frankly, I rather enjoy someone arguing an unpopular position who can do it well.
Madigan
>>I am of the personal opinion that any "first strike" action should equal open for a while, this would include stealing in my opinion.
It wouldn't shock me if the only thing keeping GMs from making "first strike" and "picking up items flagged as from a dead character/grave" from making people open are the ways people can be baited into attacking someone and/or inadvertently flagged Open as a result of someone assisting someone who struck first against them yet doing so in a non-offensive manner and/or the mess of making sure people aren't flagged as acting hostile when they're collecting deader items for the sake of actually getting them back to the person.
Otherwise, anyone stealing/attacking/graverobbing other players should be auto-flagged to Open, since they obviously have an interest in acting that way.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
It wouldn't shock me if the only thing keeping GMs from making "first strike" and "picking up items flagged as from a dead character/grave" from making people open are the ways people can be baited into attacking someone and/or inadvertently flagged Open as a result of someone assisting someone who struck first against them yet doing so in a non-offensive manner and/or the mess of making sure people aren't flagged as acting hostile when they're collecting deader items for the sake of actually getting them back to the person.
Otherwise, anyone stealing/attacking/graverobbing other players should be auto-flagged to Open, since they obviously have an interest in acting that way.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
I'm just remembering the policy madness that happened once spouses were able to defend whoever they're married to. Enter the slew of "you can't bond then unbond or use a non-known character to draw in someone and then attack with a high level or etc etc etc" rules.
It wouldn't shock me if, in the case of graverobbing, we eventually see "you can't ask someone to pick up your weapon if you die during an invasion so your friend can PK them or put graverobbed items in donation bins and gweth that you're having a giveaway or hand graverobbed items to unsuspecting people so they're set to open unknowningly" and so on.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
It wouldn't shock me if, in the case of graverobbing, we eventually see "you can't ask someone to pick up your weapon if you die during an invasion so your friend can PK them or put graverobbed items in donation bins and gweth that you're having a giveaway or hand graverobbed items to unsuspecting people so they're set to open unknowningly" and so on.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
the problem with the "graverobbing = open" scenario is the hassle that already exists in the case of people who are being "helpful" that hold peoples items to give them back, then dying, then giving them back inadvertantly leading to lost items, etc, etc, etc.
there's quite a number of times i've seen the situation come up and be posted about. ie.
bob wm dies, dropping his scim.
bob consents mary empath.
mary empath picks up scim. <she has consent to hold the item>.
Mary empath heals bob, and dies in the process, dropping the scim.
scim, which actually belongs to bob, is now flagged as belonging to mary.
bob is raised first, and picks up the scim.
Bobs scim is now flagged as graverobbed, since mary dropped it.
in our scenario, poor bob would be flagged as graverobbing for picking up his own weapon.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
there's quite a number of times i've seen the situation come up and be posted about. ie.
bob wm dies, dropping his scim.
bob consents mary empath.
mary empath picks up scim. <she has consent to hold the item>.
Mary empath heals bob, and dies in the process, dropping the scim.
scim, which actually belongs to bob, is now flagged as belonging to mary.
bob is raised first, and picks up the scim.
Bobs scim is now flagged as graverobbed, since mary dropped it.
in our scenario, poor bob would be flagged as graverobbing for picking up his own weapon.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
>>THIS thief no longer steals from players due to the number of deaths per theft being HIGHER than 1:1.
Your record as stated above makes you officially the Worst Thief of All Time.
I'll repeat my previous suggestion to reroll. May I suggest Necromancer? Saphael has left a void in our hearts that I'm confident you'll be able to fill.
Your record as stated above makes you officially the Worst Thief of All Time.
I'll repeat my previous suggestion to reroll. May I suggest Necromancer? Saphael has left a void in our hearts that I'm confident you'll be able to fill.
