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Had a random idea just now, and not really sure how feasible it is with coding/lore but...
WvW contest modified by trading skill, against a single target that decreases the target's sense of self worth. Would be a general debuff on a skillset chosen by the attacking Trader. Time-limited on individual targets (once per elanthian day?), but would last for an anlaes or two.
Example:
[Lower trading skill]
> devalue CharacterBob survival
You launch into a diatribe about CharacterBob's ability to survive. By the conclusion, you're smiling cruelly, secure in the knowledge that CharacterBob feels worse about himself.
Roundtime: 10 seconds.
[Higher trading skill]
> devalue CharacterBob armor
You extoll the benefits of being skilled with armors, subtly mocking CharacterBob as you do. You also explain more pointedly how CharacterBob's skill with armor is not up to snuff and how he compares poorly with the rest of the world.
Roundtime: 10 seconds.
Failure would have some sort of messaging about how they laugh off your attempt to manipulate them.
Thoughts? Has something like this been proposed before?
>devalue CharacterBob survival
>You launch into a diatribe about CharacterBob's ability to survive. By the conclusion, you're smiling cruelly, secure in the knowledge that CharacterBob feels worse about himself.
Roundtime: 10 seconds.
That's the prediction/CJ system (MM sphere to a tee). Only no pool filling, so easier. So...probably a blanket no?
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
>You launch into a diatribe about CharacterBob's ability to survive. By the conclusion, you're smiling cruelly, secure in the knowledge that CharacterBob feels worse about himself.
Roundtime: 10 seconds.
That's the prediction/CJ system (MM sphere to a tee). Only no pool filling, so easier. So...probably a blanket no?
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
<<That's the prediction/CJ system.>>
The timers he mentions are MORE severe than the inherent timer of filling a prediction pool, so I don't see how any comparison to the Prediction system is grounds for it not being feasible. Especially since it's a debuff on target, with no buff ability, making it at best 1/4 as flexible as the Prediction system (buffs, debuffs, self, others vs debuff others). In short, this suggested ability doesn't even catch a sniff of the awesome that is Prediction.
Whether it's considered something Traders SHOULD be able to do from a LORE/Design perspective is much more important. That being said, I'd like it. Since it's WvW it draws on Charisma, it'd use trading as a skill check, and while "useful" in combat, is not really a "combat ability" (which apparently is something Traders SHOULD NOT HAVE based on past development).
There is a real lack of Trader "abilities" (that don't involve shops, tables, or caravans) as it stands currently.
>so I don't see how any comparison to the Prediction system is grounds for it not being feasible.
If I suggested that a 150th trader be able to tank his bonus to 'motivate a corpse back to life', because traders are charismatic enough to charm the devil out of his gold, it would be thematically arguable; high level traders should have magic level abilities in things, as a function of being what they are. It would be..silly. And that was my take on the Devaluation suggestion; it closesly mimics the prediction system, too closely in my mind. But what do I know.
>There is a real lack of Trader "abilities" (that don't involve shops, tables, or caravans) as it stands currently.
So..there are a lot of trader abilities focused on making money. And doing things which make money. Seems a central point of the guild (and crafting, post DR3). Which sucks in a game which is highly combat oriented. It opens avenues completely denied to other players, and, without actively closing avenues available to other players, still makes it difficult to pursue hunting much (especially at high levels). Is this wrong? Right? It seems that Traders are a one of a kind guild in DR, focused on everything but combat. Seems like it would add diversity to the game as a whole.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
If I suggested that a 150th trader be able to tank his bonus to 'motivate a corpse back to life', because traders are charismatic enough to charm the devil out of his gold, it would be thematically arguable; high level traders should have magic level abilities in things, as a function of being what they are. It would be..silly. And that was my take on the Devaluation suggestion; it closesly mimics the prediction system, too closely in my mind. But what do I know.
>There is a real lack of Trader "abilities" (that don't involve shops, tables, or caravans) as it stands currently.
So..there are a lot of trader abilities focused on making money. And doing things which make money. Seems a central point of the guild (and crafting, post DR3). Which sucks in a game which is highly combat oriented. It opens avenues completely denied to other players, and, without actively closing avenues available to other players, still makes it difficult to pursue hunting much (especially at high levels). Is this wrong? Right? It seems that Traders are a one of a kind guild in DR, focused on everything but combat. Seems like it would add diversity to the game as a whole.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
>>So..there are a lot of trader abilities focused on making money. And doing things which make money. Seems a central point of the guild (and crafting, post DR3). Which sucks in a game which is highly combat oriented. It opens avenues completely denied to other players, and, without actively closing avenues available to other players, still makes it difficult to pursue hunting much (especially at high levels). Is this wrong? Right? It seems that Traders are a one of a kind guild in DR, focused on everything but combat. Seems like it would add diversity to the game as a whole.
Traders have actual combat requirements, but the only thing separating a Trader from a commoner is speculate coin. Moreover, Moon Mages or Empaths do not have combat requirements per se, and both of those guilds have a very broad selection of unique combat capabilities far beyond Traders.
Shops, tables, commodities, caravans, crafting systems are definitely the lion's share of their stuff, but they need some combat abilities. I don't think anyone's suggesting something as comprehensive as khri or Warrior Mage spells, but a nice round system of 5-10 combat abilities, including a moderate defensive buff and some sort of offensive ability beyond speculate coin, would be a rudimentary and welcome addition, in my opinion.
Traders have actual combat requirements, but the only thing separating a Trader from a commoner is speculate coin. Moreover, Moon Mages or Empaths do not have combat requirements per se, and both of those guilds have a very broad selection of unique combat capabilities far beyond Traders.
Shops, tables, commodities, caravans, crafting systems are definitely the lion's share of their stuff, but they need some combat abilities. I don't think anyone's suggesting something as comprehensive as khri or Warrior Mage spells, but a nice round system of 5-10 combat abilities, including a moderate defensive buff and some sort of offensive ability beyond speculate coin, would be a rudimentary and welcome addition, in my opinion.
<<If I suggested that a 150th trader be able to tank his bonus to 'motivate a corpse back to life', because traders are charismatic enough to charm the devil out of his gold>>
heh, everyone wants to be a necromancer.
trader bob shows up with an undead caravan after unmercifully beating his yaks to death..
He that oppresseth the poor balsphemeth his Maker; But he that is gracious unto the needy honoreth Him. Proverbs 14:31
heh, everyone wants to be a necromancer.
trader bob shows up with an undead caravan after unmercifully beating his yaks to death..
He that oppresseth the poor balsphemeth his Maker; But he that is gracious unto the needy honoreth Him. Proverbs 14:31
<<a moderate defensive buff and some sort of offensive ability beyond speculate coin>>
you mean like speculate defense?
there is that if you're unaware of it, implemented a little while ago.
more combat <offense> things would be good. sort of like talon had in FF. <calls forth a merchant army>-
or... Tell caravan to stampeed. Caravan would knock over <badguy> and once prone, run them over a few times, backing up for good measure and putting hoof-prints all over their head and torso. Of course, there would be skill-checks involved <charisma on traders' side, strength,stamina on the critter/defender to determine if they got knocked over/amount of damage respectively>
He that oppresseth the poor balsphemeth his Maker; But he that is gracious unto the needy honoreth Him. Proverbs 14:31
you mean like speculate defense?
there is that if you're unaware of it, implemented a little while ago.
more combat <offense> things would be good. sort of like talon had in FF. <calls forth a merchant army>-
or... Tell caravan to stampeed. Caravan would knock over <badguy> and once prone, run them over a few times, backing up for good measure and putting hoof-prints all over their head and torso. Of course, there would be skill-checks involved <charisma on traders' side, strength,stamina on the critter/defender to determine if they got knocked over/amount of damage respectively>
He that oppresseth the poor balsphemeth his Maker; But he that is gracious unto the needy honoreth Him. Proverbs 14:31
>>or... Tell caravan to stampeed. Caravan would knock over <badguy> and once prone, run them over a few times, backing up for good measure and putting hoof-prints all over their head and torso. Of course, there would be skill-checks involved <charisma on traders' side, strength,stamina on the critter/defender to determine if they got knocked over/amount of damage respectively>
Personally, I would really prefer to divorce Trader combat abilities from caravans (including spook). I don't wanna haul a caravan every time I want to go hunting.
Personally, I would really prefer to divorce Trader combat abilities from caravans (including spook). I don't wanna haul a caravan every time I want to go hunting.
>or... Tell caravan to stampeed. Caravan would knock over <badguy> and once prone, run them over a few times, backing up for good measure and putting hoof-prints all over their head and torso. Of course, there would be skill-checks involved <charisma on traders' side, strength,stamina on the critter/defender to determine if they got knocked over/amount of damage respectively>
Only if I get to beat your caravan to death, mutilate the corpses like an alien, and then shove you inside like the Empire Strikes Back.
:P
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Only if I get to beat your caravan to death, mutilate the corpses like an alien, and then shove you inside like the Empire Strikes Back.
:P
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
>><<a moderate defensive buff and some sort of offensive ability beyond speculate coin>>
>>you mean like speculate defense?
Speculate Defense is actually a decent defensive buff. My trader's combats are only around 100 so I can only speak for it at that level, but it's made the difference between him getting nicked to death and blocking/dodging while hunting at level.
I don't see why it would be too much of a stretch for a speculate offense that gave a somewhat weak, but noticeable to-hit bonus to your general offense. It wouldn't be anything that would make trader's combat worthy, but would be a help.
>>you mean like speculate defense?
Speculate Defense is actually a decent defensive buff. My trader's combats are only around 100 so I can only speak for it at that level, but it's made the difference between him getting nicked to death and blocking/dodging while hunting at level.
I don't see why it would be too much of a stretch for a speculate offense that gave a somewhat weak, but noticeable to-hit bonus to your general offense. It wouldn't be anything that would make trader's combat worthy, but would be a help.
>Traders have actual combat requirements, but the only thing separating a Trader from a commoner is speculate coin. Moreover, Moon Mages or Empaths do not have combat requirements per se, and both of those guilds have a very broad selection of unique combat capabilities far beyond Traders.
Speculate Defense. And Commoners can learn weapons faster since all skillsets are secondary for exp purposes. Though a Trader can also wear medium shields on the arm.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Speculate Defense. And Commoners can learn weapons faster since all skillsets are secondary for exp purposes. Though a Trader can also wear medium shields on the arm.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>>Speculate Defense. And Commoners can learn weapons faster since all skillsets are secondary for exp purposes. Though a Trader can also wear medium shields on the arm.
Yes, I forgot speculate defense, but the crux of the point stands. Speculate defense, speculate coin and caravan spook versus SOP, Guardian Spirit, Innocence, Manifest Force, manipulate, link, Nissa's Binding, Aggressive Stance, Vitality Healing, and Tranquility. I won't bother comparing to Moon Mages. The focus isn't trying to incite guild versus guild, but pointing out that even a guild that can completely avoid touching combat is quite combat-capable, and rightfully so.
I would be fine with having two mediocre combat abilities if I didn't have moderate combat requirements, but I have said requirements. If circle requirements change in 3.0 to be only crafting skills and survival skills and reflect the development stance that Traders are non-combatants, my desire for combat abilities ends :-). If the armor requirements stay, though (and they probably will - I can't imagine a guild not having at least some requirements in both of their secondary skillsets), I think it's natural to reflect this focus on self-preservation with a broader diversity of combat options.
Yes, I forgot speculate defense, but the crux of the point stands. Speculate defense, speculate coin and caravan spook versus SOP, Guardian Spirit, Innocence, Manifest Force, manipulate, link, Nissa's Binding, Aggressive Stance, Vitality Healing, and Tranquility. I won't bother comparing to Moon Mages. The focus isn't trying to incite guild versus guild, but pointing out that even a guild that can completely avoid touching combat is quite combat-capable, and rightfully so.
I would be fine with having two mediocre combat abilities if I didn't have moderate combat requirements, but I have said requirements. If circle requirements change in 3.0 to be only crafting skills and survival skills and reflect the development stance that Traders are non-combatants, my desire for combat abilities ends :-). If the armor requirements stay, though (and they probably will - I can't imagine a guild not having at least some requirements in both of their secondary skillsets), I think it's natural to reflect this focus on self-preservation with a broader diversity of combat options.
>>it closesly mimics the prediction system
Actually, it sounds almost identical to the Bard BLUFF system, or what will be LIONIZE in the new system (except a debuff instead of a buff).
Personally, I could see Bards and Traders sharing the bluff/lionize system, and I like the idea of a bluff that debuffs as well. All told, Traders are sorely lacking in abilities, and this one seems right up their alley.
-- Player of Eyuve
Actually, it sounds almost identical to the Bard BLUFF system, or what will be LIONIZE in the new system (except a debuff instead of a buff).
Personally, I could see Bards and Traders sharing the bluff/lionize system, and I like the idea of a bluff that debuffs as well. All told, Traders are sorely lacking in abilities, and this one seems right up their alley.
-- Player of Eyuve
