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Linked below is our proposed redesign for the bless system. Please review it and share your feedback in this thread.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHwFm8BQidYis6DwsLSR2Ue3CkzXjHOaFh_PObdJQJc/edit
GameMaster Estild
You take a closer look at a white sanctifying card.
A white sanctifying card will grant the ability to have an eligible item sanctified. NOTE: There are pending design changes for how sanctified items will work in the future. If you wish to purchase this service now without having the details beforehand, do so at your own risk, as you may or may not be content with the end result of any changes to the system, and you will not be eligible for any refunds or compensation as a result of purchasing this service now. If in doubt, do not purchase it, and wait until the design proposal is finalized to make a decision. Some items could be ineligible due to existing scripts or properties. WHISPER details to the card about the specifics for your service and your availability. GAZE at the card to review your request.
>> Blessed property moves out of the flare (Category B) field and becomes its own separate property (Category C).
>> Permablessed - Becomes tier 5 sanctified and gains a legacy bonus of +5 AS against undead.
>> Permablessed with holy water flares - Becomes tier 5 sanctified with permanent holy water flares and gains a legacy bonus of +5 AS against undead.
I am assuming that Permablessed items would also gain (retain?) the Category C Blessed property? I understand that it is sort of a mute point with regard to hitting undead (tier 5 sanctification appears to work the same as blessed in this regard) but it could still be an important distinction when fighting some demons (8x blessed vs. 8x sanctified would produce potentially different results here.)
-- Robert
>> A mongrel kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
>> Permablessed - Becomes tier 5 sanctified and gains a legacy bonus of +5 AS against undead.
>> Permablessed with holy water flares - Becomes tier 5 sanctified with permanent holy water flares and gains a legacy bonus of +5 AS against undead.
I am assuming that Permablessed items would also gain (retain?) the Category C Blessed property? I understand that it is sort of a mute point with regard to hitting undead (tier 5 sanctification appears to work the same as blessed in this regard) but it could still be an important distinction when fighting some demons (8x blessed vs. 8x sanctified would produce potentially different results here.)
-- Robert
>> A mongrel kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
My saved file from early March included these paragraphs, which I liked the look of:
Clerics/Paladins: In addition to the above, the item gains the following:
It grants a True Strike effect by 2. So instead of using a d100, they
use 2 + d98 for T1, 4 + d96 for T2,..., 10 + d90 for T5 sanctified. The
same is true for offensive spells cast using sanctified runestaves.
This affects AS and CS.
Attacks made against (Cleric/Paladin) targets with a sanctified
runestaff/shield/torso armor have their attack roll die sizes reduced by
2 per tier, so T5 blessed shield/armor would have foes only use a d90 to
hit them. Having T5 of both would have foes use d80. This affects DS
and TD.
Has this been removed/sent to some other system? (I like the change-of-die effect better than a flat adder/tier.)
Clerics/Paladins: In addition to the above, the item gains the following:
It grants a True Strike effect by 2. So instead of using a d100, they
use 2 + d98 for T1, 4 + d96 for T2,..., 10 + d90 for T5 sanctified. The
same is true for offensive spells cast using sanctified runestaves.
This affects AS and CS.
Attacks made against (Cleric/Paladin) targets with a sanctified
runestaff/shield/torso armor have their attack roll die sizes reduced by
2 per tier, so T5 blessed shield/armor would have foes only use a d90 to
hit them. Having T5 of both would have foes use d80. This affects DS
and TD.
Has this been removed/sent to some other system? (I like the change-of-die effect better than a flat adder/tier.)
Love the proposal overall.
Two quibbles:
1. Sanctified (not metal inherent) items got left in the cold, especially when the previous proposal was to award them T5 330 status w/o legacy bonuses. Instead of nothing, how about an intermediate tier like T3 for them?
2. How about something a little extra for GUB folks? The legacy bonuses, while nice, are a little underwhelming given the cost of adding GUB. Maybe an extra selection of bane benefits or giving GUB items "best in class" status under the new system (T5 330 /w holy water) as they were under the old?
Two quibbles:
1. Sanctified (not metal inherent) items got left in the cold, especially when the previous proposal was to award them T5 330 status w/o legacy bonuses. Instead of nothing, how about an intermediate tier like T3 for them?
2. How about something a little extra for GUB folks? The legacy bonuses, while nice, are a little underwhelming given the cost of adding GUB. Maybe an extra selection of bane benefits or giving GUB items "best in class" status under the new system (T5 330 /w holy water) as they were under the old?
"Sanctified (not metal inherent) items got left in the cold" -- KWarton
I routinely find "holy"/"blessed in the hands of a Cleric or Paladin" items--including worn imbedables, of all things...--on Reim creatures; the Emperor especially just LOVES to carry sanctified weapons.
(Then again, he's also pretty fond of cursed black ora, so call that a wash.)
Including the Holy imflass katana that I started a young paladin to use, just because it seemed SO much the thing to do.
I routinely find "holy"/"blessed in the hands of a Cleric or Paladin" items--including worn imbedables, of all things...--on Reim creatures; the Emperor especially just LOVES to carry sanctified weapons.
(Then again, he's also pretty fond of cursed black ora, so call that a wash.)
Including the Holy imflass katana that I started a young paladin to use, just because it seemed SO much the thing to do.
How will this affect Ironwright flare script. Part of the draw to ironwright was that you got holy water flares automatically no matter the profession when the item was blessed as well as an additional flare type based on what was chosen. Now that bless is giving the ability for holy water flares to all weapons, seems like part of the value for ironwright is diminished. I know that having the CAT B slot opened up so an additional flare can be added as well is nice, but that is applied for all weapons in general as well. Is there any consideration or anything else being done for ironwright script at all. Just curious. Thanks.
Could we revisit the difficulty that is added to each sorcerer ensorcel? T1 vs t5 is pretty massive. 50 vs 250.
Most items will be out of the current selection of clerics abilities to sanctify.
Could we bring ensorcell down to some sliding scale? 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 points of added difficulty?
or could we have the various class enhancements ignore other class enhancements when determining difficulty?
I've found it to be overwhelmingly difficult to get most of my items further improved and we just added another ability I'd love to get on them.
Also what are the proposed difficulties for each tier?
| KANDOR |
| Will UAC gear work like melee weapons? Will the "gear difficulty changes" apply to 925/735 as well? |
Yes to both.
| GAMING2K |
| Since Voln armor can't be ensorcelled. Is it possible to have Voln armor provide a bonus to be less difficult to cast 330 on the voln armor? |
Good idea. We'll add it to our list to review.
| james, bristenn's player |
| Hrm, is the legacy bonus of +5 for permabless in addition to the +10 total from T5 Sanctified, or in place of? |
In addition to.
| LUMNIS |
| 1.1) For the people who already applied Sanctification as a DR cert could there be a refund? I feel like now I need to get this thing removed in order to apply the superior version of Sanctification which works for everyone and does more things. It's kinda not our fault that these very game-changing (in a good way!) additions are now being implemented. |
| 1.2) I would like to see NCU or non-corporeal undead still be immune to normal non-blessed or sanctified weaponry. I kinda see them as not being entirely there, you know, as an in-game story kinda perspective. |
| 2.1) Out of curiosity, what will happen to Paladin bonding sanctification? |
| 2.2) So from my understanding if we get the permanent holy water flares added that will not interfere with other flares on the weapon? So I could potentially have GEF and Holy Water flares on the same weapon? |
1.1) It would depend on the specifics of each case. If you applied it during the last Duskruin, it would not qualify since we explicitly noted it was going to change and although we didn't want to offer it then due to that, a number of players were still okay with purchasing it with that knowledge, so we made it available with that warning. However, having said that, and considering that we've actually made it tier 0 sanctification better (does not have any Gear Difficulty penalty), why would you want to remove it now?
2.1) Nothing should change with Holy Weapon (1625). It'll continue to function exactly as it does now.
2.2) Yes.
| Robert |
| I am assuming that Permablessed items would also gain (retain?) the Category C Blessed property? I understand that it is sort of a mute point with regard to hitting undead (tier 5 sanctification appears to work the same as blessed in this regard) but it could still be an important distinction when fighting some demons (8x blessed vs. 8x sanctified would produce potentially different results here.) |
Not all demons requires a bless to hit. The incubus in the Den of Rot is one such creature. However, for the type you're referring to, tier 5 sanctification is considered blessed, so yes, any existing permablessed weapon that is 8x would still be able to hit those demons. 8x greater undead bane weapons would also gain this ability.
| KRAKII |
| Has this been removed/sent to some other system? (I like the change-of-die effect better than a flat adder/tier.) |
The 2.0 document supersedes anything previously announced. In addition, anything not listed as changing is not planned to change, but we may overlook certain scenarios, items, services, and their interactions, so you can ask for details there when needed.
| KWARTON |
| 2. How about something a little extra for GUB folks? The legacy bonuses, while nice, are a little underwhelming given the cost of adding GUB. Maybe an extra selection of bane benefits or giving GUB items "best in class" status under the new system (T5 330 /w holy water) as they were under the old? |
It's also worth noting that a lot of weapons that have greater undead bane are really high end and probably wouldn't be possible for a Cleric to sanctify due to the item's Gear Difficulty score.
| WHIGHTCNIGHT |
| How will this affect Ironwright flare script. Part of the draw to ironwright was that you got holy water flares automatically no matter the profession when the item was blessed as well as an additional flare type based on what was chosen. Now that bless is giving the ability for holy water flares to all weapons, seems like part of the value for ironwright is diminished. I know that having the CAT B slot opened up so an additional flare can be added as well is nice, but that is applied for all weapons in general as well. Is there any consideration or anything else being done for ironwright script at all. Just curious. Thanks. |
We'll need to review that script to see if any modifications are needed/warranted.
| LORDFLAME |
| Could we revisit the difficulty that is added to each sorcerer ensorcel? T1 vs t5 is pretty massive. 50 vs 250. |
| Most items will be out of the current selection of clerics abilities to sanctify. |
| Could we bring ensorcell down to some sliding scale? 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 points of added difficulty? |
| or could we have the various class enhancements ignore other class enhancements when determining difficulty? |
| I've found it to be overwhelmingly difficult to get most of my items further improved and we just added another ability I'd love to get on them. |
| Also what are the proposed difficulties for each tier? |
Enchant's penalty also goes up to 256 at 10x and ensorcell's penalty goes up to 250 at T5. Sanctify is +20 per tier and +50 for permanent holy water flares, so goes up to 150. But the latter also only affects combat against undead while the former two apply all combat.
| SOULKUTTER |
| What about Voln? Nothing mentioned there. |
There no planned changes for Voln. Kai's Strike and Symbol of Blessing will continue to work as they do now.
GameMaster Estild
Important things that stand out to me (good or bad).
Fulfilled hopes:
-Melee can feasibly kill things without a blessing. About time!
-Holy water flares were moved to their own slot so all weapons can have flares plus blessings.
-I think there's sufficient incentive for people to want the 330 service instead of just asking for 304 endlessly.
Unexpected bonuses:
-Claidhmores and other super weighted items having no blessing penalty is amazing.
-Blessing charges not being eaten up by the living is amazing.
-Anchoring noncorporeal undead is amazing. I don't care that I sound repetitive, it's still true!
-Cool changes to material modifiers and/or innate sanctification for eonake, white ora, faewood, and even white alloy.
Quirks:
-Giving an AS/CS benefit on weapons, but not an SMR benefit, seems a little out of place since acuity and 735 help there. Besides, 320 and 309 are defining cleric tools that use SMR. This isn't a huge deal, but strange to me at least.
-Being able to 304 a claidhmore but not 330 a claidhmore (because of how gear difficulty works) is also strange. I'm not sure I even mind, but just noting it.
-If it's ever possible/feasible to change, INF would make much more sense as a cleric prime stat than INT due to 340 and now 330. Again, not a big deal, but an interesting quirk.
The one dilemma I see:
Holy water flares are a tricky balancing act, but here's my first shot.
Having weapons that simultaneously hit the undead and have conventional B slot flares has been a perk exclusive to clerics/paladins/GUB owners, but now won't be. If I remember correctly, the previous iteration of the proposal resolved that on the cleric side by giving them a hidden T6 similar to 735's, but that's no longer present. So, for clerics and paladins, I'd like to see at least one new perk. That could be extra AS/CS from a rank 5 330, a higher holy water flare rate, potentially double holy water flares to mirror 1604, ability to train spiritual lores for guaranteed consecutive flares like 735, a lower crit rank floor on the flares, a higher crit rank ceiling, etc.
I'm pleasantly surprised to see the 100 Blessings lore component still survived into this version of the proposal, but it seems over the top to ask for the hefty lore cost and a full four weeks of devotion. (I think it was two before.) Holy water flares just don't seem like a gigantic perk that warrants that while also adding 50 difficulty, especially for something that only works on undead and is also competing with 304. Maybe consider dropping the devotion cost, or reconsider the strength of holy water flares. (For all, not just clerics/paladins.)
Fulfilled hopes:
-Melee can feasibly kill things without a blessing. About time!
-Holy water flares were moved to their own slot so all weapons can have flares plus blessings.
-I think there's sufficient incentive for people to want the 330 service instead of just asking for 304 endlessly.
Unexpected bonuses:
-Claidhmores and other super weighted items having no blessing penalty is amazing.
-Blessing charges not being eaten up by the living is amazing.
-Anchoring noncorporeal undead is amazing. I don't care that I sound repetitive, it's still true!
-Cool changes to material modifiers and/or innate sanctification for eonake, white ora, faewood, and even white alloy.
Quirks:
-Giving an AS/CS benefit on weapons, but not an SMR benefit, seems a little out of place since acuity and 735 help there. Besides, 320 and 309 are defining cleric tools that use SMR. This isn't a huge deal, but strange to me at least.
-Being able to 304 a claidhmore but not 330 a claidhmore (because of how gear difficulty works) is also strange. I'm not sure I even mind, but just noting it.
-If it's ever possible/feasible to change, INF would make much more sense as a cleric prime stat than INT due to 340 and now 330. Again, not a big deal, but an interesting quirk.
The one dilemma I see:
Holy water flares are a tricky balancing act, but here's my first shot.
Having weapons that simultaneously hit the undead and have conventional B slot flares has been a perk exclusive to clerics/paladins/GUB owners, but now won't be. If I remember correctly, the previous iteration of the proposal resolved that on the cleric side by giving them a hidden T6 similar to 735's, but that's no longer present. So, for clerics and paladins, I'd like to see at least one new perk. That could be extra AS/CS from a rank 5 330, a higher holy water flare rate, potentially double holy water flares to mirror 1604, ability to train spiritual lores for guaranteed consecutive flares like 735, a lower crit rank floor on the flares, a higher crit rank ceiling, etc.
I'm pleasantly surprised to see the 100 Blessings lore component still survived into this version of the proposal, but it seems over the top to ask for the hefty lore cost and a full four weeks of devotion. (I think it was two before.) Holy water flares just don't seem like a gigantic perk that warrants that while also adding 50 difficulty, especially for something that only works on undead and is also competing with 304. Maybe consider dropping the devotion cost, or reconsider the strength of holy water flares. (For all, not just clerics/paladins.)
How will sonic weapons be treated vs. undead under this new system?
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
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"How will sonic weapons be treated vs. undead under this new system?" -- Luxelle
Ooohhhh, good question!
"Full value of Enchant!" and "flares allowed!" are my obvious go-to request, but I could certainly see it as "only half/truncate" and "no base flare but only Lore" as being more reasonable rather than giving Bards the total freebie.
Ooohhhh, good question!
"Full value of Enchant!" and "flares allowed!" are my obvious go-to request, but I could certainly see it as "only half/truncate" and "no base flare but only Lore" as being more reasonable rather than giving Bards the total freebie.
I'm a little unclear from the proposal, will Paladins also have this same ability, in some capacity, to provide Blessing Tiers or only Clerics?
Although I think this is a huge (much needed) plus for the GS community, I do agree with LUMNIS that at first glance this seems to take away some luster from Paladins as having that unique capability to sanctify/bond to a claidh or flaring weapon to use on undead when other melee classes couldn't, was a huge draw for me to chose a Paladin as my main.. in addition to the RP benefit.
If that's the only negative though I'll take it, this is a much needed addition for the GS community and I'm looking forward to it.
My second question after reading it again ...
Will there be any point to consecrating or blessing a runestaff? Or will faewood runestaves be extra ... magicky?
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Will there be any point to consecrating or blessing a runestaff? Or will faewood runestaves be extra ... magicky?
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gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
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| LUXELLE |
| How will sonic weapons be treated vs. undead under this new system? |
Sonic weapons will continue to act as they do now (+10 AS, no flares, but will not subject to the new 25% damage resistance). During the Bard review, we plan to explore the idea of sonic armaments being able to receive various services and properties, and retaining those between casts.
GameMaster Estild
These are wonderful changes, and a much-needed improvement to a legacy system. It never made sense that we couldn't do ANY damage to zombies by bludgeoning/hacking with a normal weapon. And now I won't have to bug Leafiara to bless my crazy weighted stuff :-D Appreciate all the hard work that went into it - and excited to see it happen.
My only reservation: I agree with KWARTON about GUB legacy bonus feeling underwhelming. It's not so bad I'm going to ragequit... but I'd rather feel great about paying a premium for BEST THING the next time I'm thinking about... paying a premium for BEST THING. Hoping for a bit more for GUB in comparison to perma w/holy water. Add "best in class" (like KWARTON said), or an extra +5 AS, or 5 CER, or treat non-corporeal as corporeal? What about extra AvD or DF vs undead, or a private pizza party with Estild, or take-Wyrom-to-the-prom?
| KWARTON |
| 2. How about something a little extra for GUB folks? The legacy bonuses, while nice, are a little underwhelming given the cost of adding GUB. Maybe an extra selection of bane benefits or giving GUB items "best in class" status under the new system (T5 330 /w holy water) as they were under the old? |
My only reservation: I agree with KWARTON about GUB legacy bonus feeling underwhelming. It's not so bad I'm going to ragequit... but I'd rather feel great about paying a premium for BEST THING the next time I'm thinking about... paying a premium for BEST THING. Hoping for a bit more for GUB in comparison to perma w/holy water. Add "best in class" (like KWARTON said), or an extra +5 AS, or 5 CER, or treat non-corporeal as corporeal? What about extra AvD or DF vs undead, or a private pizza party with Estild, or take-Wyrom-to-the-prom?
I would like to see a higher legacy bonus. I don't think the cost of the service is being accurately valued.
Permabless was 300kbs. GUB was 500kbs.
The bane certificate improves were 100kbs for +5 AS.
Both PB and GUB will both have T5 status, but now that ability is possible via any cleric. Leaving the only unique bonus the +AS legacy. I personally would not have paid 300kbs for +5 AS.
How about +15AS for PB and +25AS for GUB?
Permabless was 300kbs. GUB was 500kbs.
The bane certificate improves were 100kbs for +5 AS.
Both PB and GUB will both have T5 status, but now that ability is possible via any cleric. Leaving the only unique bonus the +AS legacy. I personally would not have paid 300kbs for +5 AS.
How about +15AS for PB and +25AS for GUB?
>-If it's ever possible/feasible to change, INF would make much more sense as a cleric prime stat than INT due to 340 and now 330. Again, not a big deal, but an interesting quirk.
Now I have to disagree with what I said. This conversation got interesting on Discord!
Estild raised the opposite question of whether 340 should use INT since that's the prime stat, but people pointed out something I hadn't noticed: other profession services don't use both prime stats either.
Enchanting: Logic (prime) + Intuition (not prime)
Ensorcelling: Wisdom (prime) + Intuition (not prime)
Tattooing: Dexterity (not prime) + Discipline (also not prime)
So sanctification using Wisdom (prime) + Influence (not prime) would fit. Only loresong unlocking uses both prime stats, but it's been implied that bards might get a more valuable service with the bard review.
There was also a back-and-forth about what Influence and Intuition thematically represent and how (or if) they make sense in the context of 330 or 340: https://www.play.net/gs4/info/stats.asp
I actually never liked Intuition even on 925 and 735, but Vaemyr pointed out that maybe it represents someone's natural talent to use mana flows. That made sense to me for elemental magic, so now I think of the enchanting stats as being detached intellectual and instinctual manipulation of magical energy. For the ensorcelling stats, I think of Intuition as the elemental part and Wisdom as the spiritual part.
For a pure spiritual service, I lean toward Influence making more sense than Intuition because I see clerics as either influencing their deity to lend their power or being rewarded with power because of how they can influence people.
I also think there's something to be said for not creating thematic overlap between wizards using Logic + Intuition and clerics using Wisdom + Intuition. For clerics I'd think at least one stat should imply that their power depends partly on their connections to the Arkati and/or other people. Influence fits there.
That said, I don't see a perfect answer. Because of 340, it's already been a problem to give a profession incentives to be good at both of the junk stats.
Don't want Intuition as a prime stat to be considered as just being in the way if 340 and 330 both used Influence. Don't want 340 to be even more ignored than it is now if 330 used Intuition. Can't think of an argument for 340 to use something other than Influence. Can't think of an argument for 330 to use something other than Wis+Inf or Wis+Int.
If I had to pick, I'd say keep 330 using Influence because it makes more thematic sense to me, but whichever way it goes, maybe throw out a one-time bone of fixstats.
Now I have to disagree with what I said. This conversation got interesting on Discord!
Estild raised the opposite question of whether 340 should use INT since that's the prime stat, but people pointed out something I hadn't noticed: other profession services don't use both prime stats either.
Enchanting: Logic (prime) + Intuition (not prime)
Ensorcelling: Wisdom (prime) + Intuition (not prime)
Tattooing: Dexterity (not prime) + Discipline (also not prime)
So sanctification using Wisdom (prime) + Influence (not prime) would fit. Only loresong unlocking uses both prime stats, but it's been implied that bards might get a more valuable service with the bard review.
There was also a back-and-forth about what Influence and Intuition thematically represent and how (or if) they make sense in the context of 330 or 340: https://www.play.net/gs4/info/stats.asp
I actually never liked Intuition even on 925 and 735, but Vaemyr pointed out that maybe it represents someone's natural talent to use mana flows. That made sense to me for elemental magic, so now I think of the enchanting stats as being detached intellectual and instinctual manipulation of magical energy. For the ensorcelling stats, I think of Intuition as the elemental part and Wisdom as the spiritual part.
For a pure spiritual service, I lean toward Influence making more sense than Intuition because I see clerics as either influencing their deity to lend their power or being rewarded with power because of how they can influence people.
I also think there's something to be said for not creating thematic overlap between wizards using Logic + Intuition and clerics using Wisdom + Intuition. For clerics I'd think at least one stat should imply that their power depends partly on their connections to the Arkati and/or other people. Influence fits there.
That said, I don't see a perfect answer. Because of 340, it's already been a problem to give a profession incentives to be good at both of the junk stats.
Don't want Intuition as a prime stat to be considered as just being in the way if 340 and 330 both used Influence. Don't want 340 to be even more ignored than it is now if 330 used Intuition. Can't think of an argument for 340 to use something other than Influence. Can't think of an argument for 330 to use something other than Wis+Inf or Wis+Int.
If I had to pick, I'd say keep 330 using Influence because it makes more thematic sense to me, but whichever way it goes, maybe throw out a one-time bone of fixstats.
As the owner of a permablessed weapon that also has a bane I take serious issue with the legacy bonus proposals. A GUB is essentially a bane + a permabless, and since it still retains all it's bane benefits (LIKE ANY OTHER BANE) vs probably the single largest general category of creature, why would it just get more legacy AS than a PB? It's the bless part that is changing, not the bane. My PB has extra planar bane, because I like the diversity, which, had I bought a PB when they were sold at DR, it would have cost 400k BS + 400k BS for the epb vs 500k BS for a bane vs undead + PB. So trying to equate that bane as deserving more when it loses NOTHING is completely unfair to PB owners. If anything, perhaps allow GUB owners a one time chance to chose the effects of their bane again (like + AS or weighting vs a flare) so they might THEN also still be able to add holy water flares (which was also a completely separate and available cert at DR too) - if that is/was an interference issue with a bane flare. I will be extremely displeased if I feel my PB gets slighted when compared to a GUB's PB when it makes 0 fiscal sense because, as I said, a bane is still a bane.
Thanks for any consideration,
- Arshwikk, player of.
>Estild raised the opposite question of whether 340 should use INT since that's the prime stat, but people pointed out something I hadn't noticed: other profession services don't use both prime stats either.
I disagree with this argument or using RP to justify mechanical decisions for system design. The fact is that Sanctify will already be the third priority profession gear upgrade service, behind enchant and ensorcell, because it is a bonus for undead hunting only.
While Intuition is not a prime stat for wizards or sorcerers, Intuition is also one of few stats where no race has a penalty or outlier bonuses. Influence, on the other hand, massively penalizes many races that pures play. It's bad enough to suffer from this for 340, but it would really render using 330 moot for any decent gear with a +20 variation for max racial penalties and bonuses.
Also, since Sanctify only provides 40% of the upgrade (AS/CS bonus) as Ensorcell AND only works for attacks vs. undead, I would expect any potential boost brew potions sold to be priced considerably cheaper.
I agree that clerics should have some innate profession-based bonus, such as an extra tier similar to what Ensorcell provides sorcerers, since this service doesn't work against all creatures anyway.
I disagree with this argument or using RP to justify mechanical decisions for system design. The fact is that Sanctify will already be the third priority profession gear upgrade service, behind enchant and ensorcell, because it is a bonus for undead hunting only.
While Intuition is not a prime stat for wizards or sorcerers, Intuition is also one of few stats where no race has a penalty or outlier bonuses. Influence, on the other hand, massively penalizes many races that pures play. It's bad enough to suffer from this for 340, but it would really render using 330 moot for any decent gear with a +20 variation for max racial penalties and bonuses.
Also, since Sanctify only provides 40% of the upgrade (AS/CS bonus) as Ensorcell AND only works for attacks vs. undead, I would expect any potential boost brew potions sold to be priced considerably cheaper.
I agree that clerics should have some innate profession-based bonus, such as an extra tier similar to what Ensorcell provides sorcerers, since this service doesn't work against all creatures anyway.
For Kai's Strike, will we have some way to choose to use bless-less UCS gear instead of using unarmed blessed hits? Right now, there's no option since the unblessed gear wouldn't work at all. But with this change, I might prefer to accept the 25% damage reduction but still use my gear.
Also, kind of feels like Kai's Strike will be a lot weaker, relative to the new baseline.
Also, kind of feels like Kai's Strike will be a lot weaker, relative to the new baseline.
So at what level would white ora/eonake weapons made via forging be? They're not from merchants or found in the treasure system....
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Also, if a weapon is sanctified, can it still be blessed? If so, will blessing it just remove the remaining damage resistance for T0-T4 weapons or will it give them 5-25% damage weighting for T1-T5 weapons?
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
This proposal sounds amazing, in general. I do have a question about kroderine...will new cleric Sanctify be able to be added to Kroderine items. Sure kroderine is anti magic, but is it anti spiritual juju? For example, my kroderine armor is also able to be modified as Voln armor which is a spiritual themed thing, so how about this?
Mohrgan glances between Mohrgan and Mohrgan.
Mohrgan glances between Mohrgan and Mohrgan.
I have to agree with Veythorne...I hope a better adjustment is made for the price of a GUB or Permabless. Like Vey, I wouldn't ragequit, but I would be pretty unhappy and hesitant to lay out similar sums in the future.
Overall though, I've always liked the fact that undead were harder to hunt. I understand lots of people like the new opportunities to hunt them of course, without all the work of hunting up blesses, going Voln, or investing in expensive weapon upgrades. But for the 30 years I've played Gemstone, I've always mostly hunted undead because of this challenge (yeah, I've been playing for that long, minus a few breaks I took in the 2000's).
Overall though, I've always liked the fact that undead were harder to hunt. I understand lots of people like the new opportunities to hunt them of course, without all the work of hunting up blesses, going Voln, or investing in expensive weapon upgrades. But for the 30 years I've played Gemstone, I've always mostly hunted undead because of this challenge (yeah, I've been playing for that long, minus a few breaks I took in the 2000's).
I actually can't believe there are GUB people asking for more legacy bonus. The bane is literally NOT changing. The only portion of GUB changing is the PB, same as with JUST a PB. I paid more for my PB + bane than GUB cost. I'm not asking for anything more because it's irrelevant to the changes. BANE is irrelevant, even if it's vs undead, still the largest single category in the game, lol. I actively sought out a PB, not a GUB, because I knew I wanted a different bane, and didn't care that it cost more. I cannot stress enough how unhappy I will be if you guys cater to GUB owners when it makes zero logical sense.
Just for math's sake, because I'm not sure GUB people get what I am saying, I think they do and just want more for nothing, but let me spell this out. GUB at DR was 500k, PB, last time it was offered, I believe was 400k. For arguments sake lets go with the 300k (which I do remember when it was 300k only too). So the argument is that GUB was 500k vs 300k? I've not seen a bane at DR for less than 400k. Is the bane going away or something? Nope. You stated clearly it will be the same. So what your telling me is they will still have the potential if they chose the +AS for their bane to upgrade that to +30, LIKE ANY OTHER BANE. So what, just throw them more legacy bonus on the PB portion of the weapon for what? Nothing? So if by low DR margins I have 700k in PB and a bane on my weapon maybe I should get +35 on mine since some folks (equating 100k BS = +5) think their bane + PB should be more than just a pb even though the bane isn't changing, right? Really what people with have with GUB is a BARGAIN bane, + a permabless.
Why not just give everyone god-like powers when they join GS? It'd make everything super simple and give everyone who wants 'special' abilities like these proposed just what they want and they won't have to work at it! Amazing, right?! Heck, do it even better, once they join GS with a new character with god-like powers, make it so that they again have to work even less and can level by only having to kill two critters on that level! WOOHOO! No work for anyone, even the GM's get to laze away and not actually have to work anymore! Then, give everyone who shows up at the GS gathering things in Misourri every year a shiny medal too!
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do
not want to hear. -George Orwell
