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There is alot of hate in these lands all because an ancient culpret that is destroying and cannabalizing the player base. Antagonistic CvC. It's stupid racist stuff that says to a new player only a small group of elitists play this game and they each have 8 different characters to give the illusion that every small town is populated. While i'm sure the state of the game isn't that bad that's what it feels like at times.
Why does CvC have to be so antagonizing to players. You can't expect someone to come into a high fantasy enviornment and be able to figure out why elves refuse to talk in common. Why? ALL HIGH FANTASY ENVIRONMENTS ARE DIFFERENT! The direction depends on the author(s) and the community to fill in the blanks.
Example: Most of them have a "good" and "bad" set of races. Simple online documentation makes the distinction. The history of why elves are too cocky to talk in common is not explained within the game or its history. In other mmo's some elves are a friendly race who love the forests and like to help weary travellers. There should be a consider mechanic or something in this game at minimum so that when people look at npc's they can get an explicit "yes elves are cool with you" ior "no elves hate you" There isnt even a way to tell. All i know is only that i need papers for some reason and that people get pissed when i dont have them. Personally i can't just assume and infer that just because i have a green card in Ta vallor means elves don't like other races. There's nothing explicit in the backstory or the game that says elves hate you because you can't speak their language. i know the pawn broker is racist because he told me "for giants" i get to pay more for something but i don't just assume that everyone in town is that way.
Again, in other high fantasy environments you can walk into a town where only a small part of it hates you. It depends on the author of the environment as a result the information is not explicit. A consider verb would help.
Consider (insert npc here)
(NPC) scowls at you ready to attack
glares at you with nervousness in his eyes
Hates your guts because you're not an elf and there's nothing you can do about it now run before he kills you
Obviously those are some bad examples but atleast im trying.
Imagine going into a country where everyone knows english but refuses to speak it except only enough for you to realize they know the language but they just don't want to use it. Don't you realize how a player might feel if you act like that and are you really that suprised? That player can do nothing to learn elven unless he/she is an elf in which case they all ready know it. There is nothing they can do to speak and understand elven even though they may desperatly want to to try and fit in.
Not saying it should be this way here. What i am saying is that there is nothing in this game that is immersive as far as the why things happen and why people are the way they are. There's no explanation. Who likes to guess? Honestly? When you have no clue as to an answer not even a lead or inference and you are just guessing a number between 1 and a million how fun is that? Honestly?
You know how players can tell in other mmo's that certain races do not like them? They are chased after and killed by the town guards. Now that's explicit! does it have to be or should it be this way? not necessesarily. I'm just saying there needs to be discussion serious discussion with the community and the authors as a whole to figure out a way to make the why's of the land more explicit. My time in ta vallor proves that players cannot be counted on to help immerse people into these lands and the why's and the history.
I have talked to people in game who are disenfranchised by the community and they wind up being lonely hunters all their life and then they get to the top and then they quit. This will happen anyway with some players but why antagonize them? you wan't to know why players act a certain way its because the community pidgen holes them to act a certain way. I want to be a hunter. I hope to be a hero. If hunting is not a legitimate part of this game then why is it there to begin with? People have made me so frusterated that it's easy to turn into wanting to just be evil because if people treat you like crap in game you have a resentment in game that transfers to your character in game. This is basic human phyc.
When i was crying out hoplessly teling people in characher that you made me this way i wasn't acting crazy. I was using in character to address an issue that people just couldn't seem to understand. If i start out as a friendly but ignorent player in game and you all burn me at the stake for it and i get mad and turn sour and i decide i'd like to get midevil on some people and you wonder why i'm thinking to myslef really? you've verbally abused me for my unintentional ignorence and you want to know why i want to get midevil on some people?
What did your parents beat or something? If this game were played by people during the civil war where we were without merit racist towards other human beings the whole racest thing here in game would be easier tounderstand and accept but times are different now. There is no context.
This whole idea that i can cast an eye spell and people are disgusted by it to the point of replusion is unexplanable by the lore as far as documentation or immersiveness in game. I spent nearly 20 seconds per set of stairs one time in Zol up some secret cleric passage and only after i get ot the top of it AND look it up online do i realize this is some super secret cleric passage. I as attempting to not just look it up right away because i was convinced that i was missing something doing it that way. nothing in the game hints or alludes to the fact that hey there is a reason you just walked up a thousand stairs reading pointless muarels on the walls that tell you nothing about the purpose of the journey. Why why why?
If the game is not made to work to be easy to figure out things then consider this... If a player does not know where the pins are how can he/she make a strike?
It's not in every high fantasy environment that people are just automaticly dissusted by necromantic like spells. I'm a morbid person it takes more then blood and gore in text to disgust me. As a matter of fact when i blow a creatures arm off and it reanimates to attack it's own body I'm elated by this. nothing gives me more pleasure then to see an npc enemy choke on their own blood while they get pulled down to the ground by their own hand. think about it. This is the same creature that used to kill me and my friends. That's how i play evil. that's how i play cocky. I know who the real enemies are in these lands and as long as we are fighting amongts eachother were missing the point.
This community has an identity crisis almost. Since they why's of the game are left for "discovery" most people just get frusterated give up and move on. Is this what you want?
This game needs an identity. The community neds an identity. It needs to be explicit in the game or in the starting documentation. People who come here come from different gaming backrounds are not going to be able to figure out these things especially when they are burned at the stake all for the crime of NOT KNOWING. A game needs to have boundries in it in order for people to understand the whys.
Don't you all want a hero to save your sorry selves when the landing or something else gets attacked? Wouldn't it be nice if you wern't trapped in town square raising people or healing while there is an invasion going on because not one single person can do anything about it? I've got 20 trains already and i still get destroyed by these damn gm events. I bet thats their way of saying HEY! you should be nicer to hunters because these lands are dangerous and they'll be the ones to save your sorry tail ends because you spend all your time in town square shunning the great art of hunting.
Why is it that the idea of actually playing the game as a hunter drumbs up so much resentment in the community? Hunters pay the same price a month then you do (for basic) and more revenue for the company means more improvements for the game.
That outta be a win win for all of us.
This whole idea that it's just plain unacceptable and impossible to roleplay a hunter is completly stupid. Name one high fantasy environment where there is not a reason to fight among predetermined npc evils.
I hear people who have told me "We used to have alot of people in our army and our great house and now it is so depressing people don't play anymore etc etc." So much so they latched onto me for dear life trying to get me to join all these things which made me feel even more uncomfortable about joining them.
Well when you treat people like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwlOUAAyPQE That's what you get. All of you who decide to be hard on anyone who does not have a phd in tolkinology all you do is antagonizize them. I didn't wan't to be mean at all ever in game i want to be a hero. There are enourmous creature challenges in the lands that i want learn to over come. That's how i roll.
This whole idea that people will think that just because i'm a hunter means i can't be accepted as a roleplayer in that role is absurd and not appropriate... This is a high fantasy environment. Why do you think a combat system is in place if it's not reason to play?
You can shoot down this post too but when you're all alone in the lands don't ask why there's noone to join your house or your army. The answer is you.
I've read this post twice and I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have spent a considerable amount of time talking to you in OOC whispers trying to help. I think you've either glossed over that completely or you just disregard the fact that I've tried to help you.
Ta'Vaalor isn't some fluffy happy place for everyone, but nobody is mistreated. If you communicate with people you'll find that 90 percent of the people who play a character in this town is amenable, happy and willing to help. Yeah we RP that we're not all that nice but if you've read the documentation on Vaalorian elves, that's pretty spot on.
When you die, someone finds you, when you have an issue we whisper to you to resolve it and you're still not happy. At this point I honestly think there is nothing that we can do to make you happy. We can't get rid of the papers or the racial bias, it's part of the town, part of the game and not something that can be changed because you are unhappy.
There are many different ways you can experience your time in Ta'Vaalor, continuing to insult the people who continue to try to help won't make things any easier for you. After a while, even the most friendly ones will get insulted and just leave you alone to do things however you feel you need to.
Thanks.
Ta'Vaalor can be a difficult starting town if you are not accustomed to their culture. A giant in elven lands would likely not be born there.
I understand you want to "discover" culture and personalities in-game and not read ahead, but when it comes to culture you will want to so that you, hopefully, understand what you're getting yourself into.
Years ago, RL, when I travelled overseas, I read up on the cultures of the countries I was to visit, and understood their laws. My ignorance of their laws would not be an excuse to insult them, or break them.
Remember, don't take the Character as the Player as they are often not synonymous- especially in Vaalor.
Icemule Trace is a great spot for Giantkin, and they are welcomed and accepted there by the local NPCs (If I recall correctly!). On Teras, elves are practically booted on the back of the pants or tossed out by their collar cuffs if they get out of line in certain parts of town. Dark elves have it good..... well... NO WHERE by mercantile standards.
Good luck, remember we all have our roles to play, and the documentation is provided and painstakingly done for a reason.
~Z
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
I understand you want to "discover" culture and personalities in-game and not read ahead, but when it comes to culture you will want to so that you, hopefully, understand what you're getting yourself into.
Years ago, RL, when I travelled overseas, I read up on the cultures of the countries I was to visit, and understood their laws. My ignorance of their laws would not be an excuse to insult them, or break them.
Remember, don't take the Character as the Player as they are often not synonymous- especially in Vaalor.
Icemule Trace is a great spot for Giantkin, and they are welcomed and accepted there by the local NPCs (If I recall correctly!). On Teras, elves are practically booted on the back of the pants or tossed out by their collar cuffs if they get out of line in certain parts of town. Dark elves have it good..... well... NO WHERE by mercantile standards.
Good luck, remember we all have our roles to play, and the documentation is provided and painstakingly done for a reason.
~Z
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
I almost forgot!
Also, the Player ultimately chooses his or her bias regardless of documentation. Not every Vaalor elf will be rude, or only elven speaking, in the presence of outsiders. Some are extreme, some ignore their culture's stereotypical responses entirely. It isn't as cut and dry as the NPC's liking your race or not because players drive these communities with their indicidual RP.
Just as you don't want anyone to tell you that you cannot be a "hunter", you can't really to expect to dictate how other choose to roleplay, either. That may include not liking foreigners in their town. (Especially on the heels of a successful attack from non-elves in what was supposed to be the unattackable! Vaalor is finally starting to come OFF of Red Alert. believe it or not, and is more relaxed now than it was even a year and a half ago. It will never be a fully welcoming town, nor should it be IMO as per documentation.)
Rather than try to tell them they are wrong for not liking you, assist the town to help show why they should? It's what I did as a dwarf and got very good results.
Again, Good luck.
Z.
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
Also, the Player ultimately chooses his or her bias regardless of documentation. Not every Vaalor elf will be rude, or only elven speaking, in the presence of outsiders. Some are extreme, some ignore their culture's stereotypical responses entirely. It isn't as cut and dry as the NPC's liking your race or not because players drive these communities with their indicidual RP.
Just as you don't want anyone to tell you that you cannot be a "hunter", you can't really to expect to dictate how other choose to roleplay, either. That may include not liking foreigners in their town. (Especially on the heels of a successful attack from non-elves in what was supposed to be the unattackable! Vaalor is finally starting to come OFF of Red Alert. believe it or not, and is more relaxed now than it was even a year and a half ago. It will never be a fully welcoming town, nor should it be IMO as per documentation.)
Rather than try to tell them they are wrong for not liking you, assist the town to help show why they should? It's what I did as a dwarf and got very good results.
Again, Good luck.
Z.
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
Ok so you've read my post twice yet you still don't understand the point of the entire post. Let me help.
My issue is not with how things are. I've played mmo's where i would be killed on sight by npc guards of a certain race. I enjoyed playing despite that. The how is not the issue.
The problem is the very poor explanation in documentation and in the game itself that explains why things are the way they are. In all the guides i've read both official and fan based i have failed to see ANYTHING that illudes to the situation of why. That is the real issue.
It's not the how things are it's the gross lack of context as to why they are both in game and out.
What about what i post is so hard to understand?
The bottom line is this. If we continue to act the way we do and refuse to give any context so that other people can pick up on AND in addition to that we spit on the new people because they don't have a phd in tolkinology then expect to play a game where great houses are shells of them former selves and great armies don't have enough troops. It's your choice.
You're killing the world you love right in front of your eyes. This is an mmo. FYI. And as with all mmo's This place is nothing without the people who live in it. you would pull out your own heart and eat it before you would realize you couldn't live without it.
My issue is not with how things are. I've played mmo's where i would be killed on sight by npc guards of a certain race. I enjoyed playing despite that. The how is not the issue.
The problem is the very poor explanation in documentation and in the game itself that explains why things are the way they are. In all the guides i've read both official and fan based i have failed to see ANYTHING that illudes to the situation of why. That is the real issue.
It's not the how things are it's the gross lack of context as to why they are both in game and out.
What about what i post is so hard to understand?
The bottom line is this. If we continue to act the way we do and refuse to give any context so that other people can pick up on AND in addition to that we spit on the new people because they don't have a phd in tolkinology then expect to play a game where great houses are shells of them former selves and great armies don't have enough troops. It's your choice.
You're killing the world you love right in front of your eyes. This is an mmo. FYI. And as with all mmo's This place is nothing without the people who live in it. you would pull out your own heart and eat it before you would realize you couldn't live without it.
From the official docs:
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/races/cultures/elf.asp
More info may or may not be found on Krakipedia and the like, I only went as far as this for illustration.
House of Vaalor
(The Elves of Ta'Vaalor)
Ta'Vaalor, the work of the great Aradhul Vaalor, is more a fortress than a city. The Vaalor have always produced the finest warriors of the Elven race. All Vaalor, male and female, enter the military at a young age, serving for some hundred years. Perhaps because of this, they are the haughtiest of the Elves. They had little tolerance for the lesser peoples of the lands, especially mixed-breeds. They have never suffered the Elven culture or bloodlines to be tainted by others. During the height of the Elven Empire, they chafed under the leadership of the Faendryl, believing the high seat should be theirs.
~Z
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/races/cultures/elf.asp
More info may or may not be found on Krakipedia and the like, I only went as far as this for illustration.
House of Vaalor
(The Elves of Ta'Vaalor)
Ta'Vaalor, the work of the great Aradhul Vaalor, is more a fortress than a city. The Vaalor have always produced the finest warriors of the Elven race. All Vaalor, male and female, enter the military at a young age, serving for some hundred years. Perhaps because of this, they are the haughtiest of the Elves. They had little tolerance for the lesser peoples of the lands, especially mixed-breeds. They have never suffered the Elven culture or bloodlines to be tainted by others. During the height of the Elven Empire, they chafed under the leadership of the Faendryl, believing the high seat should be theirs.
~Z
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
I find there is plenty of documentation to back up why Elves, in general, find themselves to be so elitist over the other races. Here's some excerpts from official history:
II. Second Age, The Elven Empire (50,000 - 20,000 years ago)
Under the Arkati's tutelage, all the lesser races developed their own civilizations. But none has ever matched the great empire of the Elves. The most magically adept of the races, they saw themselves as the natural heirs to dragonkind. The Elves quickly spread from the deep forests in which they had always lived, staking claim to much of the known world.
"The lesser races live in savagery. It is only with the guidance of our own eternal empire that they shall ever rise from barbarism to enjoy the benefits of civilization. Incapable of ruling themselves, they are rightfully grateful for our benevolence and aid."
-Yshryth Faendryl, XIV Patriarch, House Faendryl
And then specifically for the Vaalor elves:
Ta'Vaalor, the work of the great Aradhul Vaalor, is more a fortress than a city. The Vaalor have always produced the finest warriors of the elven race. All Vaalor, male and female, enter the military at a young age, serving for some hundred years. Perhaps because of this, they are the haughtiest of the Elves. They had little tolerance for the lesser peoples of the lands, especially mixed-breeds. They have never suffered the elven culture or bloodlines to be tainted by others. They also chafed under the leadership of the Faendryl, believing the high seat should be theirs.
And more support from documentation:
II. D. The Humans
The lot of the Humans was a treacherous one in this age. The Elves ruled the land, and they would permit no others to settle its more fertile areas. The Vaalor, in particular, have always gone out of their way to make life difficult for Humans. Most Humans lived a nomadic life, barely sustaining themselves in the barren lands they were permitted. Others served as slaves, beggars or thieves within the shadows of the great elven cities.
Not all Humans accepted their lot as thralls. Some rebelled. Many so-called rebels were little more than outlaws, more brigands than freedom fighters. Some few, however, actually achieved minor victories. The Black Wolves were one such group. Led by the wizard Aramur Forean, once a student of the Illistim himself, they actually drove the Elves out of the area around what is now called Wehnimer's Landing. After one of their raids killed a young Vaalor prince, however, the Elves hunted the Black Wolves down. The Humans vanished into a series of caverns near the sea, and they were never heard from again.
All of those, and even a few more hints about the matter can be found in these two links:
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/official-elanthian-history.asp
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/official-elanthian-history2.asp
There's also even more reasons when you look at the cultural histories of each individual race and their stories.
-Aulis
II. Second Age, The Elven Empire (50,000 - 20,000 years ago)
Under the Arkati's tutelage, all the lesser races developed their own civilizations. But none has ever matched the great empire of the Elves. The most magically adept of the races, they saw themselves as the natural heirs to dragonkind. The Elves quickly spread from the deep forests in which they had always lived, staking claim to much of the known world.
"The lesser races live in savagery. It is only with the guidance of our own eternal empire that they shall ever rise from barbarism to enjoy the benefits of civilization. Incapable of ruling themselves, they are rightfully grateful for our benevolence and aid."
-Yshryth Faendryl, XIV Patriarch, House Faendryl
And then specifically for the Vaalor elves:
Ta'Vaalor, the work of the great Aradhul Vaalor, is more a fortress than a city. The Vaalor have always produced the finest warriors of the elven race. All Vaalor, male and female, enter the military at a young age, serving for some hundred years. Perhaps because of this, they are the haughtiest of the Elves. They had little tolerance for the lesser peoples of the lands, especially mixed-breeds. They have never suffered the elven culture or bloodlines to be tainted by others. They also chafed under the leadership of the Faendryl, believing the high seat should be theirs.
And more support from documentation:
II. D. The Humans
The lot of the Humans was a treacherous one in this age. The Elves ruled the land, and they would permit no others to settle its more fertile areas. The Vaalor, in particular, have always gone out of their way to make life difficult for Humans. Most Humans lived a nomadic life, barely sustaining themselves in the barren lands they were permitted. Others served as slaves, beggars or thieves within the shadows of the great elven cities.
Not all Humans accepted their lot as thralls. Some rebelled. Many so-called rebels were little more than outlaws, more brigands than freedom fighters. Some few, however, actually achieved minor victories. The Black Wolves were one such group. Led by the wizard Aramur Forean, once a student of the Illistim himself, they actually drove the Elves out of the area around what is now called Wehnimer's Landing. After one of their raids killed a young Vaalor prince, however, the Elves hunted the Black Wolves down. The Humans vanished into a series of caverns near the sea, and they were never heard from again.
All of those, and even a few more hints about the matter can be found in these two links:
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/official-elanthian-history.asp
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/official-elanthian-history2.asp
There's also even more reasons when you look at the cultural histories of each individual race and their stories.
-Aulis
>>You're killing the world you love right in front of your eyes. This is an mmo. FYI. And as with all mmo's This place is nothing without the people who live in it. you would pull out your own heart and eat it before you would realize you couldn't live without it.>>
You mentioned a Tolkien book more than once, and I replied (a few times) that the documentation for all races is on the play.net site. We don't behave a certain way because we just think it's a cool thing to do. Some go from the many different documents that have been released to help us with our RP.
I understand that you're not happy and you are frustrated. It's why I've taken time to talk to you OOCly and in Silverwood Courtyard when you were having issues. I will continue to do so, but I'm going to say again. You make a person feel as if thier assistance isn't wanted - yet you keep asking for it. I'm not really sure what to do at this point.
Everyone can act the exact same way, and then what would happen to the world that we all enjoy playing in?
Aulis,
I think i've discovered the cause of confustion. You see, when i read all that stuff i thought that was more like a backdrop for the stage (i thought that was more of history and backround and how the government of the region (NPC's) act.
i had no idea that players would actually want to act like that for whatever reason. Personally, i can't understand anyone who enjoys roleplaying a racist/elitist (wether its proper roleplay or not)or feels that it's appropriate just because history and government dictates.
I guess there are not any anti government elves. Since when does an "enlightened" race put their faith in government to dictate wrong from right anyhow? Governments know nothing.
Very quirky roleplay indeed.
Regardless Aulis thank you for helping me clear up the confusion.
I think i've discovered the cause of confustion. You see, when i read all that stuff i thought that was more like a backdrop for the stage (i thought that was more of history and backround and how the government of the region (NPC's) act.
i had no idea that players would actually want to act like that for whatever reason. Personally, i can't understand anyone who enjoys roleplaying a racist/elitist (wether its proper roleplay or not)or feels that it's appropriate just because history and government dictates.
I guess there are not any anti government elves. Since when does an "enlightened" race put their faith in government to dictate wrong from right anyhow? Governments know nothing.
Very quirky roleplay indeed.
Regardless Aulis thank you for helping me clear up the confusion.
As Zenaxa posted above, not all people act like this but some people base themselves around the documented history of the game. Think of it like this, you are an American. You have a lot of freedom. If you go to, say, the Middle East and act like you would in America you could have problems.
Why I'm still explaining this is beyond me, really. I think you're either pulling our legs or you're being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
Why I'm still explaining this is beyond me, really. I think you're either pulling our legs or you're being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
>>Why I'm still explaining this is beyond me, really. I think you're either pulling our legs or you're being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
Really? You got that from his confused sounding posts? I think he's being honest. Frankly, I don't get why people like the way many, if it's not most it's a good sized minority, of the characters are played in Vaalor either. It's why i don't go there. It really shouldn't be a newbie landing spot and was a huge mistake that it ever was (new folks should feel welcomed regardless of race or talent). I think it and River's Rest probably require the most ability to RP in order to survive and thrive there. Most people don't want to be introduced to a new game and feel ostracized at the same time. Hopefully, this was corrected at some point and new players are not directed there.
~Galenok
Really? You got that from his confused sounding posts? I think he's being honest. Frankly, I don't get why people like the way many, if it's not most it's a good sized minority, of the characters are played in Vaalor either. It's why i don't go there. It really shouldn't be a newbie landing spot and was a huge mistake that it ever was (new folks should feel welcomed regardless of race or talent). I think it and River's Rest probably require the most ability to RP in order to survive and thrive there. Most people don't want to be introduced to a new game and feel ostracized at the same time. Hopefully, this was corrected at some point and new players are not directed there.
~Galenok
Galenok - I have spent a large chunk of my time trying to help this person and he's repeatedly ignored my, and several others, attempts to help him. If you don't come to Ta'Vaalor you can't say that you don't understand why people play here. Actually, we have a large number of new people who visit and subsequently stay. I am sorry that you didn't have a wonderful experience here but most people do. This particular person comes into the town square and provokes arguments and then wonders why we all don't swoon all over his feet and try to cuddle. Then he comes here and complains about people who he continues to provoke. Some of the nicest people that I've met ever in the lands play in this town and we are great to our newbies. Silverwood Manor and the Mentors work overtime to make sure that people who spawn here realize the atmosphere and if they're not comfortable with it, offer to help them move. So please, don't stumble in on the thread and throw in your two cents if you are uninformed. Thanks.
-Naitalya
Actually i'd say hes rather fine posting his feedback (feelings and opinions). you may be hurt knowing that this is going on with new players but it's no reason to lash out and deflect the situation. Imagine the people that are not like me and him say NOTHING and just CANCEL one day without explanation. This is the point i am trying to hammer across to all of you. Studies show that most people who are unhappy with something don't say anything... but they don't come back...
Now i'm not the sharpest tool in the shead but if i'm having trouble understanding the lands surly i'm not the only one. The posts i make have the best of intentions: to let people know feedback and to discuss it to try and make things easier for new people to swallow. Not all my ideas are good but atleast i have ideas to offer!
I see no benefit to attacking a new player just because they're having the same trouble i am. I'm telling you guys the community is hard on new players and dabblings doesn't tell you any of this crap. Anything you read has to be interpreted a certain way to understand. I interpredted the history as a backdrop. Shame on me for not being as smart as you!
For you to be OOC bashing this poster is not a good thing. This hurts new people which ultimatly hurts the population i'm telling you.
I provoke arguments because it takes a million and one years for me to squeeze out of people why they act a certain way and when the dont tell me what can i do... Things take time for a game like this... I guess my mistake is that i've tried doing this in a way that seemed in character because ive been trying not to break the fourth wall so all this time iv'e been trying in character to get this sorted out i should have just whispered ooc and asked what am i doing wrong but again things are not explicit here.
There's nothing uninformed about this posters feelings and opinions. And truthfully you outo be ashamed of yourself being a veteran player and saying things on these boards that just might want to make someone cancel.
You see now when i said you are cannabalizing yourselves? Well this is proof that the arrogance is NOT limited to in character. This elitist stuff may be acceptable in game but so help us all if it transfers to here on these forums where someone could be REACHING for ONE LAST CHANCE at HELP before they pack it in a give up!
You outta be ashamed of your post Naitalya.
And i love this game! I'm having trouble with the community but i love this game. Tonight i hunted with people and then we drank and then we sang in the square! All in character! But damnit i love this game the hunting is so rediculusly addicting and the few people i meet who are decent we have a great time. I LOVE THIS GAME!
And this is why i HAVN'T given up yet and that is why I AM fighting on these boards and fighting in game because i believe that underneath all the caustic spit that some players spew out that i guarentee causes atleast a few people to pack up I see beauty in this archaic text based ice derivitive. Yeah that's right i even looked this stuff up on wiki. I watched a video about the guy who made the company simutronics.
Please heed my words. This elitist stuff coming from you guys hurts the growth of this game. Don't you care if people play or not? It makes me sick as a player to see other players do and say things which i know will hurt our player base.
I really think the GM's need to stand up and take a position on this matter. Perhaps they have a better idea then we do. Game masters are not just books of information. Where i come from they also provide guidence.
And this is why i HAVN'T given up yet and that is why I AM fighting on these boards and fighting in game because i believe that underneath all the caustic spit that some players spew out that i guarentee causes atleast a few people to pack up I see beauty in this archaic text based ice derivitive. Yeah that's right i even looked this stuff up on wiki. I watched a video about the guy who made the company simutronics.
Please heed my words. This elitist stuff coming from you guys hurts the growth of this game. Don't you care if people play or not? It makes me sick as a player to see other players do and say things which i know will hurt our player base.
I really think the GM's need to stand up and take a position on this matter. Perhaps they have a better idea then we do. Game masters are not just books of information. Where i come from they also provide guidence.
Offering a perspective:
The players behind these aristocratic and elitist characters probably portray other character types that aren't quite so. . . snooty. It has been pointed out that those really hooked on the game may have several characters. If one player could be found that does portray another in addition to a snooty Vaalor elf (and they're the worst, trust me ;) -- say, a cuddly, furry-toed halfling -- then that could point to something not being considered. Specifically that it is (only!) roleplay.
I'll offer myself for a case example. In one guise, I portray a generous, courteous elf. There's a backstory I hold to that demonstrates why he's so 'abnormal'. He is, however, the antithesis of the 'run-of-the-mill' elf in Gemstone. Interestingly, that is a total facade, and there's probably two characters in the lands that know 'the real deal' and appreciate the depth of roleplay inherent in that character.
But to 'casual acquaintances' he most closely maps to the 'friendly, courteous, kind, obedient' etc., type of elf that is popularized outside of these lands. And it's all roleplay. The empath that I portray is. . . not well-aligned with the temperament of the elf's backstory. The empath lives far more outside his skin, for example.
I offer the perspective because a part of the 'feedback loop' I see here that we're involved in holds the same concept in reverse.
So, in reading through the posts, I see some players supporting what could only be perceived as the superlative roleplay aligned with this game -- that elves in general are haughty and disdainful (with one exception ;), and Vaalor elves especially are even worse by an order of magnitude.
Perhaps congratulating them on the completeness of that roleplay along the way to discussing why it's so troubling and hurtful may be a bit more effective.
Doug
The players behind these aristocratic and elitist characters probably portray other character types that aren't quite so. . . snooty. It has been pointed out that those really hooked on the game may have several characters. If one player could be found that does portray another in addition to a snooty Vaalor elf (and they're the worst, trust me ;) -- say, a cuddly, furry-toed halfling -- then that could point to something not being considered. Specifically that it is (only!) roleplay.
I'll offer myself for a case example. In one guise, I portray a generous, courteous elf. There's a backstory I hold to that demonstrates why he's so 'abnormal'. He is, however, the antithesis of the 'run-of-the-mill' elf in Gemstone. Interestingly, that is a total facade, and there's probably two characters in the lands that know 'the real deal' and appreciate the depth of roleplay inherent in that character.
But to 'casual acquaintances' he most closely maps to the 'friendly, courteous, kind, obedient' etc., type of elf that is popularized outside of these lands. And it's all roleplay. The empath that I portray is. . . not well-aligned with the temperament of the elf's backstory. The empath lives far more outside his skin, for example.
I offer the perspective because a part of the 'feedback loop' I see here that we're involved in holds the same concept in reverse.
So, in reading through the posts, I see some players supporting what could only be perceived as the superlative roleplay aligned with this game -- that elves in general are haughty and disdainful (with one exception ;), and Vaalor elves especially are even worse by an order of magnitude.
Perhaps congratulating them on the completeness of that roleplay along the way to discussing why it's so troubling and hurtful may be a bit more effective.
Doug
I'm done. Especially after I took time, once again, to help you last night. You came here after and slammed me on the boards.
Enjoy your time in Ta'Vaalor.
To anyone else who's pondering a visit?
Please do, while Ta'Vaalor isn't for everyone (and not because people are rude - the most complaints we actually get are the levels of the hunting grounds) we still enjoy seeing and interacting with whomever comes to spend time with us.
Have a great day!
I hope in time you will come to realize that there are enjoyable interactions to be had when two characters with different world views and different motivations interact. They offer a complexity beyond the "Lets all help eachother and be nice" level of relationship. I sure know I wouldn't want to read a book with no disagreements or conflicts.
Thankfully we have GMs willing to let people find out exactly what sort of interactions they enjoy, intervening only if it becomes an OOC player on player issue. I for one would find little interest in a game where the GMs act as you suggest they should, directing me to one person's "right" way to deal with other people.
"What do you want me to do, go on television and tell 3 million people they have to be nice to each other?
Being miserable and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's god-given right."
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
Thankfully we have GMs willing to let people find out exactly what sort of interactions they enjoy, intervening only if it becomes an OOC player on player issue. I for one would find little interest in a game where the GMs act as you suggest they should, directing me to one person's "right" way to deal with other people.
"What do you want me to do, go on television and tell 3 million people they have to be nice to each other?
Being miserable and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's god-given right."
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
<<ulis,
I think i've discovered the cause of confustion. You see, when i read all that stuff i thought that was more like a backdrop for the stage (i thought that was more of history and backround and how the government of the region (NPC's) act.
i had no idea that players would actually want to act like that for whatever reason. Personally, i can't understand anyone who enjoys roleplaying a racist/elitist (wether its proper roleplay or not)or feels that it's appropriate just because history and government dictates.
I guess there are not any anti government elves. Since when does an "enlightened" race put their faith in government to dictate wrong from right anyhow? Governments know nothing.
Very quirky roleplay indeed.
Regardless Aulis thank you for helping me clear up the confusion.>>
Don't make the mistake of assuming that you know what motivates a player to choose a particular style of roleplay. When you assume that a person who plays an unfriendly character does so only to ruin your day as a player, then you preclude the possibility of any meaningful interaction on the character level. This is one of the key reasons that playing a dark character is so difficult to pull off. The player must stay true to their character, while subtly revealing to other players that he or she is behaving in this fashion with the intent of generating meaningful interaction between characters.
Keep in mind that a story without conflict isn't much of a story! What would Tolkien's world be without Morgoth, who was the origin for all of the conflicts that made his stories famous? In a roleplaying game, documentation can only set the stage. If nobody chose to bring it to life by playing such characters, what would be the point?
On the other hand, one of the biggest mistakes I think people make when it comes to character design is thinking that the world must be full of heroes and villains. What about the ordinary people? While the world would be boring without heroes and villains, a world without subtlety simply isn't believable. There's a place for normal, everyday characters who live complicated lives, but whose story only unfolds once you take the time to get to know them.
My point is that there's room for all sorts of characters in the world. You don't need to be either a hero or a villain. Perhaps your character is a bit of both, or neither? The choice is yours. But to each their own. Without that variety, we'd all be pretty bored.
~Taverkin
I think i've discovered the cause of confustion. You see, when i read all that stuff i thought that was more like a backdrop for the stage (i thought that was more of history and backround and how the government of the region (NPC's) act.
i had no idea that players would actually want to act like that for whatever reason. Personally, i can't understand anyone who enjoys roleplaying a racist/elitist (wether its proper roleplay or not)or feels that it's appropriate just because history and government dictates.
I guess there are not any anti government elves. Since when does an "enlightened" race put their faith in government to dictate wrong from right anyhow? Governments know nothing.
Very quirky roleplay indeed.
Regardless Aulis thank you for helping me clear up the confusion.>>
Don't make the mistake of assuming that you know what motivates a player to choose a particular style of roleplay. When you assume that a person who plays an unfriendly character does so only to ruin your day as a player, then you preclude the possibility of any meaningful interaction on the character level. This is one of the key reasons that playing a dark character is so difficult to pull off. The player must stay true to their character, while subtly revealing to other players that he or she is behaving in this fashion with the intent of generating meaningful interaction between characters.
Keep in mind that a story without conflict isn't much of a story! What would Tolkien's world be without Morgoth, who was the origin for all of the conflicts that made his stories famous? In a roleplaying game, documentation can only set the stage. If nobody chose to bring it to life by playing such characters, what would be the point?
On the other hand, one of the biggest mistakes I think people make when it comes to character design is thinking that the world must be full of heroes and villains. What about the ordinary people? While the world would be boring without heroes and villains, a world without subtlety simply isn't believable. There's a place for normal, everyday characters who live complicated lives, but whose story only unfolds once you take the time to get to know them.
My point is that there's room for all sorts of characters in the world. You don't need to be either a hero or a villain. Perhaps your character is a bit of both, or neither? The choice is yours. But to each their own. Without that variety, we'd all be pretty bored.
~Taverkin
IMO, role-playing a character should be fun for you regardless of what other people think of your character.
There are, of course, the basic concepts of staying in-character and not disrupting the game environment with your role-playing on certain levels (ie: role-playing a mass murderer would not likely work out so well if you were blatantly killing other characters without consent).
Also, just because the majority of a town's general population has a certain, relative disposition towards X, Y and Z does not mean that everyone must conform to that rigid structure. There can always be rebels, renegades, and those who simply go against the grain of the social structure they were brought up in and/or currently reside in.
GM Marstreforn
There are, of course, the basic concepts of staying in-character and not disrupting the game environment with your role-playing on certain levels (ie: role-playing a mass murderer would not likely work out so well if you were blatantly killing other characters without consent).
Also, just because the majority of a town's general population has a certain, relative disposition towards X, Y and Z does not mean that everyone must conform to that rigid structure. There can always be rebels, renegades, and those who simply go against the grain of the social structure they were brought up in and/or currently reside in.
GM Marstreforn
Ta'Vaalor isn't really "filled" with racist elves. I will say that a goodly amount of the people playing there today (yes, there are a bunch of us!) aren't cuddly with all races but we're polite. We all realize that trade isn't possible if you don't at least act polite to the visitors. Now on an OOC note, even our most elitist elf role players will search out the newer folks when they die. They'll find them a healer (maybe on the sly) and nobody in our town decays because they're a "lesser race". I think we have a pretty good balance right now. The role play is solid but the newbie population absolutely does not suffer at all. Once again, I highly recommend that anyone who wants to interact with a cast of solid players come visit us. It's not on all of the time but it's a pretty active and diverse town with great newbie hunting and a short walk to OTF for the older folks.
Bottom line? We, as players, treat others like we're treated. It chafes when someone walks in and in a week tells us that we're not only doing everything wrong, but we're also driving people away. There are more people playing in Ta'Vaalor right now than in the past year. I would love to see that grow even more. We're not rude, we're not monsters and we're always happy to see new folks about.
Come visit!
I would hope that players of a game such as this would recognize roleplayed conflict, but I've been playing this game long enough to know that this is often not the case. Some players simply take it too personally and are unable to tolerate unfriendly or aggressive actions made against their characters. From what you've told me here, you're one of these players. Clearly, if the players of these characters are taking the time to OOC whisper an explanation to you after recognizing your distress, they are attempting to remain true to their characters while doing everything they can to avoid making you as a player uncomfortable. If you still can't stomach it, I would advise you to either find a different game to play or go somewhere where you aren't forced to associate with these players.
By the documentation, Ta'Vaalor is a racist and bigoted city. That's just how the typical Vaalor elf is. And even if it weren't, this IS a roleplaying game and roleplay is encouraged - even racism and other distasteful character flaws. If you can't handle that, perhaps you'd be happier somewhere else? Either in another town or another game?
I would side with you if this were a conflict between players, but it appears that you're taking issue with another player's RP choices when they aren't breaking any rules. Grow a thicker skin or move on. It isn't reasonable to ask other players to play nice so as to avoid offending your sensibilities. This is fantasy roleplay, not Disney Land.
And this is coming from one of the nicest, friendliest, helpful-ist characters you'll ever meet! Having Tav around is great (just ask anyone who's met him!), but there has to be room for the opposite end of the spectrum to exist as well!
~Taverkin
By the documentation, Ta'Vaalor is a racist and bigoted city. That's just how the typical Vaalor elf is. And even if it weren't, this IS a roleplaying game and roleplay is encouraged - even racism and other distasteful character flaws. If you can't handle that, perhaps you'd be happier somewhere else? Either in another town or another game?
I would side with you if this were a conflict between players, but it appears that you're taking issue with another player's RP choices when they aren't breaking any rules. Grow a thicker skin or move on. It isn't reasonable to ask other players to play nice so as to avoid offending your sensibilities. This is fantasy roleplay, not Disney Land.
And this is coming from one of the nicest, friendliest, helpful-ist characters you'll ever meet! Having Tav around is great (just ask anyone who's met him!), but there has to be room for the opposite end of the spectrum to exist as well!
~Taverkin
The question i pose is this:
Is it worth acting this way (no matter what the reason) knowing that as a result you will suffer population loss (canceled accounts). I love it how some folks are dodging that question. I think i know what the answer is.
I think that the people arguing againsted me think the answer is yes but for some reason when their feet are put to the fire they don't want to admit that.
I've made a perfect logical argument with absolutly no flaw it in what so ever not from a business perspective not from a population perspective not from a community perspective.
So are you brave enough to come on these boards and say "Yes i think that even if the population of this game suffers it's worth it knowing i am preserving my roleplaying values"
Or am i wrong? I made 1 single point in this post so i know you won't get lost in it.
It's time to show your colors. Be brave.
Is it worth acting this way (no matter what the reason) knowing that as a result you will suffer population loss (canceled accounts). I love it how some folks are dodging that question. I think i know what the answer is.
I think that the people arguing againsted me think the answer is yes but for some reason when their feet are put to the fire they don't want to admit that.
I've made a perfect logical argument with absolutly no flaw it in what so ever not from a business perspective not from a population perspective not from a community perspective.
So are you brave enough to come on these boards and say "Yes i think that even if the population of this game suffers it's worth it knowing i am preserving my roleplaying values"
Or am i wrong? I made 1 single point in this post so i know you won't get lost in it.
It's time to show your colors. Be brave.
>>>Is it worth acting this way (no matter what the reason) knowing that as a result you will suffer population loss (canceled accounts).<<<
No one will ever say that losing a vast amount of accounts is a good thing. The issue here is you are demanding that people play within your sandbox, and if they don't they are bad for the game. I disagree, we don't need everyone to be a good guy and a vast majority of us can accept that a CHARECTER is not the PLAYER.
Now if someone can't accept that then yes, it is better if they leave the game. It is one lost account instead of all of the "evil" people cancelling their accounts because they no longer enjoy the RP experience.
So, to wrap it up the desires of one is not greater then the desires of the whole.
I hope you enjoy your time in Gemstone and become a lifelong stoner, it sounds like presently you are in a town that does not mesh with what you want out of the game, I suggest trying a different town...or come to Platnium where everyone is hugs and kisses all the time :)
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
No one will ever say that losing a vast amount of accounts is a good thing. The issue here is you are demanding that people play within your sandbox, and if they don't they are bad for the game. I disagree, we don't need everyone to be a good guy and a vast majority of us can accept that a CHARECTER is not the PLAYER.
Now if someone can't accept that then yes, it is better if they leave the game. It is one lost account instead of all of the "evil" people cancelling their accounts because they no longer enjoy the RP experience.
So, to wrap it up the desires of one is not greater then the desires of the whole.
I hope you enjoy your time in Gemstone and become a lifelong stoner, it sounds like presently you are in a town that does not mesh with what you want out of the game, I suggest trying a different town...or come to Platnium where everyone is hugs and kisses all the time :)
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
As an answer to your question : We've had population growth and people enjoy the atmosphere. If you do not, I'm sorry for that but maybe Ta'Vaalor isn't the place for you. Good luck finding something that will fit what you're looking for. Many people enjoy our town and there are many diverse people and attitudes. I don't see it changing anytime soon.
SOLARR8
No player is going to know who cancels an account or why, unless that player happened to tell them on the way out. This includes you, me and anyone in between.
Your question is not answerable.
In my experience, am I aware that we have we lost players SOLELY over this RP and Ta'Vaalor? The answer is "No"; I have not personally heard one one single instance of this.
To put it in a very simple manner, you continue to push your ideas of how other people should roleplay, and this is just ridiculous. No one demands you play a certain way, and other than not creating RP which is against the terms we all agree to play by and not creating unwanted CvC, no one is dictated on HOW they should play.
I do suggest if you don't wish this type of atmosphere, you move to another city which is much less antagonistic to your playstyle. Passing judgements upon others (and as has been said it seems you are passing judgements against the players behind the characters, or skating close to it) is not a wise choice, either. If you cannot seperate the Player from the Character you will have many, many obstacles ahead.
As to this specific point you quote ni your last post:
S: "So are you brave enough to come on these boards and say "Yes i think that even if the population of this game suffers it's worth it knowing i am preserving my roleplaying values""
YES. I think the variance of personalities of characters are what MAKE this game what it is, and I think you are incorrect in your assesment that this RP causes the game to "suffer". The integrity of this game is valuable, and varied ideas and concepts go into making this game what it is. Concepts and idea which you seek to censor. I am against censorship whole-heartedly.
S: "Or am i worong?" I think you are.
~Zena the Brave (apparantly)
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
No player is going to know who cancels an account or why, unless that player happened to tell them on the way out. This includes you, me and anyone in between.
Your question is not answerable.
In my experience, am I aware that we have we lost players SOLELY over this RP and Ta'Vaalor? The answer is "No"; I have not personally heard one one single instance of this.
To put it in a very simple manner, you continue to push your ideas of how other people should roleplay, and this is just ridiculous. No one demands you play a certain way, and other than not creating RP which is against the terms we all agree to play by and not creating unwanted CvC, no one is dictated on HOW they should play.
I do suggest if you don't wish this type of atmosphere, you move to another city which is much less antagonistic to your playstyle. Passing judgements upon others (and as has been said it seems you are passing judgements against the players behind the characters, or skating close to it) is not a wise choice, either. If you cannot seperate the Player from the Character you will have many, many obstacles ahead.
As to this specific point you quote ni your last post:
S: "So are you brave enough to come on these boards and say "Yes i think that even if the population of this game suffers it's worth it knowing i am preserving my roleplaying values""
YES. I think the variance of personalities of characters are what MAKE this game what it is, and I think you are incorrect in your assesment that this RP causes the game to "suffer". The integrity of this game is valuable, and varied ideas and concepts go into making this game what it is. Concepts and idea which you seek to censor. I am against censorship whole-heartedly.
S: "Or am i worong?" I think you are.
~Zena the Brave (apparantly)
A black-billed nightingale examines you carefully then says, "With all the vicious creatures we've got threatening the city, I would think that a person with your skills could find plenty to do."
>I've made a perfect logical argument with absolutly no flaw it in what so ever not from a business perspective not from a population perspective not from a community perspective.
Except everything is predicated on the idea that no one can enjoy a non-best friendly interaction between their character and another human controlled character and that this "disenfranchisement" as you put it is the only reason a person might stay or go. This is not only a false premise but your very solution will remove a huge portion of the depth that is the real draw for Gemstone over any of the thousands of new fangled graphical games out there. Conflicts are the spice of a story and if we remove every single non-hunting conflict, the vast majority of that fun will be given up in the quixotic quest to ease your persecution complex.
GS is a role-playing game, not just some co-op campaign. This means we have room for both people who like the us-vs-them of hunting and those who like the us-vs-us of politics/race relations/religion/insert your conflict of choice. Assuming of course that no one from one side decides their way is the only acceptable way and starts attacking people with other play styles. That sure sounds like a good way to drive people away to me.
BTW, huge lol over misspelling the part where you tell us how perfect your are.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
Except everything is predicated on the idea that no one can enjoy a non-best friendly interaction between their character and another human controlled character and that this "disenfranchisement" as you put it is the only reason a person might stay or go. This is not only a false premise but your very solution will remove a huge portion of the depth that is the real draw for Gemstone over any of the thousands of new fangled graphical games out there. Conflicts are the spice of a story and if we remove every single non-hunting conflict, the vast majority of that fun will be given up in the quixotic quest to ease your persecution complex.
GS is a role-playing game, not just some co-op campaign. This means we have room for both people who like the us-vs-them of hunting and those who like the us-vs-us of politics/race relations/religion/insert your conflict of choice. Assuming of course that no one from one side decides their way is the only acceptable way and starts attacking people with other play styles. That sure sounds like a good way to drive people away to me.
BTW, huge lol over misspelling the part where you tell us how perfect your are.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
It really comes down to the fact that, some people can not grasp the complexity of the game, they see it in black and white, GS is not black and white it is multi-hued with immense depth. That said I will agree with the fact insult the players and you will find yourself on the other-side of the tracks. Rather than listening to the advice posted you seem to want a battle of words. Perhaps it is time to take the recommendation of players, moderators and GM's and really pay attention to what they have posted.
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
<<or come to Platnium where everyone is hugs and kisses all the time :)>>
Shhhhhhh don't give away our secrets :)
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
Shhhhhhh don't give away our secrets :)
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
I fear your are still not grasping this whole separation from the things that happen to your character. Insulting me is not part of the in game story surrounding my character; just like how conflicts with my character do not offend me the player.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
Like the others have told you, there is a distinct difference between conflict between players and conflict between characters. The problems you are experiencing are a result of your inability to differentiate between and separate the two. The players are trying to help you to understand, but you're taking the actions of their characters as a personal insult to you rather than to your character.
You need to understand that, in a roleplaying game such as this, our characters will sometimes find themselves in situations where we must take actions that run counter to our inclinations as players. This is not unlike actors in a movie. On screen they're mortal enemies, but once the camera stops rolling they're good friends and colleagues. I've found myself in situations in the past where my character is threatening another character and the situation is escalating toward an inevitable battle, but while this is going on the players of both characters are whispering back and forth as friends. This was quite common between myself and players of dark and difficult characters like Briars and Setzier back in my earlier days.
It took some learning, initially, to understand what they were trying to do with characters like these. I assumed that if a person attacks my character, they're just looking to cause trouble to me as a player. And sometimes that's true, but other times it isn't. Figuring out which is which is difficult, particularly when your character has just been assaulted or insulted and you aren't sure the other player's intentions. But I encourage you to keep a cool head and try to recognize roleplay where it exists. You really do miss out on some of the more enjoyable and exciting experiences Gemstone has to offer if you immediately take every negative scenario as a personal insult.
~Taverkin
You need to understand that, in a roleplaying game such as this, our characters will sometimes find themselves in situations where we must take actions that run counter to our inclinations as players. This is not unlike actors in a movie. On screen they're mortal enemies, but once the camera stops rolling they're good friends and colleagues. I've found myself in situations in the past where my character is threatening another character and the situation is escalating toward an inevitable battle, but while this is going on the players of both characters are whispering back and forth as friends. This was quite common between myself and players of dark and difficult characters like Briars and Setzier back in my earlier days.
It took some learning, initially, to understand what they were trying to do with characters like these. I assumed that if a person attacks my character, they're just looking to cause trouble to me as a player. And sometimes that's true, but other times it isn't. Figuring out which is which is difficult, particularly when your character has just been assaulted or insulted and you aren't sure the other player's intentions. But I encourage you to keep a cool head and try to recognize roleplay where it exists. You really do miss out on some of the more enjoyable and exciting experiences Gemstone has to offer if you immediately take every negative scenario as a personal insult.
~Taverkin
Taverkin,
Out of all the posts i have read yours has been the most helpful of all.
The lines are indeed very blurry i'll tell you that but i think the reference using the actors really helps a little. I'm saving this post so i can reference it in the future.
I guess if i had been playing all those mmo's i've played on a PvP server vs a PvE server i might be a bit more prepared for something like this. For me atleast, PvP and CvC are the same. The end result is the same therefore they are the same. I typically look at end results in life. How i got to the end result? not so much.
"our characters will sometimes find themselves in situations where we must take actions that run counter to our inclinations as players"
Must take said action? Absolutly must? As if you have no choice in the matter? That one i'm a little unconvinced about.
"You really do miss out on some of the more enjoyable and exciting experiences Gemstone has to offer... "
So far, the only thing i truly find exciting is the dice roll and the seemingly limitless intant death kills i get with a single storm cast. Bowing someones leg off is a kind of fun too. Trying to find fun in pretending to hate heachother is going to be a little harder for me. I was never really all that into playing pretend enemies. It never really did that much for me. As a child, i was always more interested in more positive pretend scenarios and more cooperative based scenarios.
Perhaps i will gain a perspective over time. I had always imagined playing a villin if i were an actor but not because i could pretend. Because i could use that role to channel all the pain i have felt for the verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse i have endured growing up at the hands of my peers. I was one of the unpopular rejects of society. I try to forget about my childhood because it hurts to think about it.
Come to think of it, that's probably why i enjoy hunting so much!
Out of all the posts i have read yours has been the most helpful of all.
The lines are indeed very blurry i'll tell you that but i think the reference using the actors really helps a little. I'm saving this post so i can reference it in the future.
I guess if i had been playing all those mmo's i've played on a PvP server vs a PvE server i might be a bit more prepared for something like this. For me atleast, PvP and CvC are the same. The end result is the same therefore they are the same. I typically look at end results in life. How i got to the end result? not so much.
"our characters will sometimes find themselves in situations where we must take actions that run counter to our inclinations as players"
Must take said action? Absolutly must? As if you have no choice in the matter? That one i'm a little unconvinced about.
"You really do miss out on some of the more enjoyable and exciting experiences Gemstone has to offer... "
So far, the only thing i truly find exciting is the dice roll and the seemingly limitless intant death kills i get with a single storm cast. Bowing someones leg off is a kind of fun too. Trying to find fun in pretending to hate heachother is going to be a little harder for me. I was never really all that into playing pretend enemies. It never really did that much for me. As a child, i was always more interested in more positive pretend scenarios and more cooperative based scenarios.
Perhaps i will gain a perspective over time. I had always imagined playing a villin if i were an actor but not because i could pretend. Because i could use that role to channel all the pain i have felt for the verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse i have endured growing up at the hands of my peers. I was one of the unpopular rejects of society. I try to forget about my childhood because it hurts to think about it.
Come to think of it, that's probably why i enjoy hunting so much!
I see where you're coming from. I left GS for about a decade and I played WoW for half of that time. Guild leader, raid leader, main tank, healing, DPS, PvP of all kinds - I did it all over there. So I know a thing or two about the non-RP side of things. If that's what you're into, then that's what you're into. I find it a little strange, personally, that someone who has played those types of games would come here for the gameplay alone. Frankly, the word "lacking" doesn't even begin to describe it! But to each their own.
What I meant is not that we have no choice, but rather that we may choose to play characters who are not in any way similar to ourselves. For instance, those who are familiar with my rather combative nature on the forums might be surprised if they met Taverkin in the game. He's as friendly and helpful as anyone you'll ever meet!
I expect that with your background this may not have occurred to you at all. It simply isn't done that way in games like WoW. In those worlds, you ARE your character. This is not the case in a roleplaying game like GS4. You are to your character as the actor is to his or her character on the screen. You're playing a part, hence the word "role-playing".
I also expect that because you're very much into character-building in the "game" sense of the word, you may eventually find a great deal of satisfaction in adding depth to your character in the roleplaying sense. I find that it's ultimately the reputation you build with other players that makes MMOs so appealing. In games like WoW it's your ability to perform your role in a raid or on an arena team, and your gear and achievements which signify the same that build this reputation. But here in GS4, it's primarily your ability to create a memorable character that other players appreciate interacting with. And although it may seem difficult to fathom at this point, some of the very best and most memorable roleplayers in the history of the game have been those evil and/or racist types (although there is far more to their characters than that!).
I will reiterate that playing dark characters is not for everyone, and generally not recommended for players such as yourself who are just beginning to learn to differentiate between character and player. So if you wish to make an effort to play a character as opposed to simply playing the "game" side of things, perhaps a friendly and helpful character would be the place to start?
Try building a bit of a back story for your character and a few simple but distinct personality quirks and perhaps something odd that doesn't quite fit and makes people ask "Why is he like that?" Then go out, interact, and build from there. There's a lot of down time between hunting that you may as well spend interacting with other players when it suits you. Sure, you could just AFK and watch TV or surf the net, but I doubt GS4 will maintain its appeal to you for long if all you do is hunt, hunt, hunt all the time!
~Taverkin
What I meant is not that we have no choice, but rather that we may choose to play characters who are not in any way similar to ourselves. For instance, those who are familiar with my rather combative nature on the forums might be surprised if they met Taverkin in the game. He's as friendly and helpful as anyone you'll ever meet!
I expect that with your background this may not have occurred to you at all. It simply isn't done that way in games like WoW. In those worlds, you ARE your character. This is not the case in a roleplaying game like GS4. You are to your character as the actor is to his or her character on the screen. You're playing a part, hence the word "role-playing".
I also expect that because you're very much into character-building in the "game" sense of the word, you may eventually find a great deal of satisfaction in adding depth to your character in the roleplaying sense. I find that it's ultimately the reputation you build with other players that makes MMOs so appealing. In games like WoW it's your ability to perform your role in a raid or on an arena team, and your gear and achievements which signify the same that build this reputation. But here in GS4, it's primarily your ability to create a memorable character that other players appreciate interacting with. And although it may seem difficult to fathom at this point, some of the very best and most memorable roleplayers in the history of the game have been those evil and/or racist types (although there is far more to their characters than that!).
I will reiterate that playing dark characters is not for everyone, and generally not recommended for players such as yourself who are just beginning to learn to differentiate between character and player. So if you wish to make an effort to play a character as opposed to simply playing the "game" side of things, perhaps a friendly and helpful character would be the place to start?
Try building a bit of a back story for your character and a few simple but distinct personality quirks and perhaps something odd that doesn't quite fit and makes people ask "Why is he like that?" Then go out, interact, and build from there. There's a lot of down time between hunting that you may as well spend interacting with other players when it suits you. Sure, you could just AFK and watch TV or surf the net, but I doubt GS4 will maintain its appeal to you for long if all you do is hunt, hunt, hunt all the time!
~Taverkin
I have two characters in Vaalor. One is pretty well accepted (I think) while the other is largely ignored and accepted by only four players. Only four people in Vaalor know know I play both characters, and they are what I consider my closest friends in game. I RP both characters very differently, so naturally the reaction is different. I actually like the dynamic, and it shows me multiple dimensions of other players RP style. Yes, there are players in Vaalor who will only speak elven (which one of my characters can't speak/understand), and no matter what I say, they continue to address me in elven. I actually enjoy it, to be honest, that some players won't speak common to me. They say more to me with her "body language" and verb usage than they probably could verbally. I'm only beginning to understand that some of them might not actually hate me, so I'm working on a way to "communicate" with them in spite of the language barrier.
How can this not be fun, I ask?
How can this not be fun, I ask?
