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Let me preface this by thanking again all who realized the awesome monk changes like mstrike, meditation etc. over the last year.
That being said, has there been any discussion regarding Iron Skin affecting CvA values?
Is it not possible to code? Is there a logical reason to have it not affect CvA? Are monks supposed to be relatively weak against CS rolls for game balance? If so, why?
I really enjoy the challenge and style of playing a monk, but is getting hit at a 45% clip with 415 by something 5 levels below you the norm for other classes?
A huge water elemental forms its hands, palms outward toward you!
CS: +390 - TD: +365 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - -5 == +143
Warding failed!
A huge water elemental blasts you for 39 points of damage.
... 30 points of damage!
Icy blast to neck freezes your words in mid-speech and leaves you speechless...permanently!
Thoughts?
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
Estild has said 1202 could be changed if staff decided an issue with monk warding defense needed addressing. (post 1161 in this folder) Several of the other issues identified in that thread did get addressed in HSN but it seems a sufficiently compelling case on warding defense was not made.
CS: +390 - TD: +365 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - -5 == +143 on you
CS: +390 - TD: +406 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - +30 == 67 on another capped monk.
Unless you were caught dispelled, there's quite a bit of improvement available to you without drinking a FIXRACE potion. I'm not sure about the other side of the Confluence, and forget the post cap areas, but the level 95 side should be possible for a capped monk to deal with (fairly easily as a halfling or dwarf, requiring extreme but possible measures on a disadvantaged race)
CS: +390 - TD: +365 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - -5 == +143 on you
CS: +390 - TD: +406 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - +30 == 67 on another capped monk.
Unless you were caught dispelled, there's quite a bit of improvement available to you without drinking a FIXRACE potion. I'm not sure about the other side of the Confluence, and forget the post cap areas, but the level 95 side should be possible for a capped monk to deal with (fairly easily as a halfling or dwarf, requiring extreme but possible measures on a disadvantaged race)
> if staff decided an issue with monk warding defense needed addressing
It's a rather strange perspective. Monks are squares, and squares generally wear armor which has a very low CvA. There are not that many unique or special abilities available to monks to offset this, particularly considering the TD boosts in MnM are for the mental sphere.
> Are monks supposed to be relatively weak against CS rolls for game balance? If so, why?
Whether or not weakness to warding needs to be addressed hinges 100% on this, doesn't it? Monks being generally easier to ward than other classes is evident to me on simple inspection. Did I miss something?
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
It's a rather strange perspective. Monks are squares, and squares generally wear armor which has a very low CvA. There are not that many unique or special abilities available to monks to offset this, particularly considering the TD boosts in MnM are for the mental sphere.
> Are monks supposed to be relatively weak against CS rolls for game balance? If so, why?
Whether or not weakness to warding needs to be addressed hinges 100% on this, doesn't it? Monks being generally easier to ward than other classes is evident to me on simple inspection. Did I miss something?
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
<<
CS: +390 - TD: +365 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - -5 == +143 on you
CS: +390 - TD: +406 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - +30 == 67 on another capped monk.
Unless you were caught dispelled, there's quite a bit of improvement available to you without drinking a FIXRACE potion. I'm not sure about the other side of the Confluence, and forget the post cap areas, but the level 95 side should be possible for a capped monk to deal with (fairly easily as a halfling or dwarf, requiring extreme but possible measures on a disadvantaged race)>>
I'm not sure what race the other capped monk is, but a difference of 35 is enormous. What improvements do you suggest?
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
CS: +390 - TD: +365 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - -5 == +143 on you
CS: +390 - TD: +406 + CvA: +15 + d100: +98 - +30 == 67 on another capped monk.
Unless you were caught dispelled, there's quite a bit of improvement available to you without drinking a FIXRACE potion. I'm not sure about the other side of the Confluence, and forget the post cap areas, but the level 95 side should be possible for a capped monk to deal with (fairly easily as a halfling or dwarf, requiring extreme but possible measures on a disadvantaged race)>>
I'm not sure what race the other capped monk is, but a difference of 35 is enormous. What improvements do you suggest?
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
| RATHBONER |
| Estild has said 1202 could be changed if staff decided an issue with monk warding defense needed addressing. (post 1161 in this folder) Several of the other issues identified in that thread did get addressed in HSN but it seems a sufficiently compelling case on warding defense was not made. |
I will note that our inaction isn't necessarily due to us thinking no change is needed. It's just we decided that if we were to proceed with adding some extra Target Defense for monks, we weren't happy with it coming from Iron Skin (1202). Mostly because the TD issue affects the viability of all light armored Squares.
GameMaster Estild
Wild idea came to mind..what if there were some sort of redux that was designed to mitigate the results of a failed CS vs TD check. For things that cause damage/stuns, this would lessen them. For things that cause RT or immobiziliation it could behave similiar to
Shield Maneuver: Protecive wall Mechanics: At Rank 1, you halve the Defensive Strength (DS) penalty imposed on stunned, webbed, immobile, unconscious, rooted, or prone group members. At Rank 2, this benefit also applies to yourself.
and Shield: Prop up Mechanics: Gain a 1/3 chance per rank to avoid being knocked to the ground due to critical damage. Gain a +5 bonus per rank against Sweep, Tackle, Bullrush, and Hamstring attacks.
and Shield: Bulwark Mechanics: If a physical attack would inflict Roundtime (RT) on you, it inflicts 20%/35%/50% less RT at Ranks 1/2/3.
I don't mind having a weakness but since even low endrolls can be so devastating the current approach is just to find a way to get enough TD to never risk injury. Maybe it could be the monk's version of an armor buff, where it would enhance redux on a player but has heavy penalties as you go up in armor AG.
>The second monk is a hobbit, the +30 at the end says so (*I think)
As if halflings would have such paltry and lame resistance to elemental warding as 30. They of course have 40. This is most likely a dwarf!
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
As if halflings would have such paltry and lame resistance to elemental warding as 30. They of course have 40. This is most likely a dwarf!
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
the 406 can't be unenhanced and self-cast unless i'm missing something. Especially since the target looked to be a dwarf so, they have -10 aura bonus.
+/- any applicable racial bonuses to the relevant stat.
and you could get an additional +15 TD to a particular school with enhancives, but that's a pretty tall order to get a max set of aura and wis enhancives purely for TD.
side note...seems like there's a lot of half-elf monks when it's probably not a great idea to get -5 TD as a monk. or i guess you're already screwed on CS attacks anyway so if you're not going dwarf/halfling you're basically just like "I'm already so weak to this, another -5 doesn't mean much"
| spirit | elemental | mental | ||
| level | 300 | 300 | 300 | |
| base stat | 25 | 25 | 25 | |
| lights | 10 | 5 | 5 | |
| deeps | 15 | 7.5 | 7.5 | |
| shroud | 20 | 10 | 10 | |
| mindward (48+ MnM ranks) | 20 | 20 | 40 | |
| combat focus | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| perfect self | 5 | 5 | 5 | |
| total | 405 | 382.5 | 402.5 |
+/- any applicable racial bonuses to the relevant stat.
and you could get an additional +15 TD to a particular school with enhancives, but that's a pretty tall order to get a max set of aura and wis enhancives purely for TD.
side note...seems like there's a lot of half-elf monks when it's probably not a great idea to get -5 TD as a monk. or i guess you're already screwed on CS attacks anyway so if you're not going dwarf/halfling you're basically just like "I'm already so weak to this, another -5 doesn't mean much"
>the 406 can't be unenhanced and self-cast unless i'm missing something. Especially since the target looked to be a dwarf so, they have -10 aura bonus.
It isn't, though you are missing society powers. I don't have full mindward, but I do have everything else on that list. I also carry items and scrolls and use them, and if I'm worried about elemental TD, 10 aura goes in my AG badge. If I was zapped immediately on entry I think it would be 381, and the extra 25 is an estimate for how much more I could keep up on average in outside spells without using excessive amounts of charges. I've got something like 50 available but with some the charges I have available are pretty limited and I couldn't use routinely.
>I will note that our inaction isn't necessarily due to us thinking no change is needed. It's just we decided that if we were to proceed with adding some extra Target Defense for monks, we weren't happy with it coming from Iron Skin (1202). Mostly because the TD issue affects the viability of all light armored Squares.
So you would want a system that would give a rogue in plate no extra bonus, a rogue in robes extra bonus, and a monk with 1202 extra bonus? Spelldux that goes away from armor training like redux goes away from spell training?
It isn't, though you are missing society powers. I don't have full mindward, but I do have everything else on that list. I also carry items and scrolls and use them, and if I'm worried about elemental TD, 10 aura goes in my AG badge. If I was zapped immediately on entry I think it would be 381, and the extra 25 is an estimate for how much more I could keep up on average in outside spells without using excessive amounts of charges. I've got something like 50 available but with some the charges I have available are pretty limited and I couldn't use routinely.
>I will note that our inaction isn't necessarily due to us thinking no change is needed. It's just we decided that if we were to proceed with adding some extra Target Defense for monks, we weren't happy with it coming from Iron Skin (1202). Mostly because the TD issue affects the viability of all light armored Squares.
So you would want a system that would give a rogue in plate no extra bonus, a rogue in robes extra bonus, and a monk with 1202 extra bonus? Spelldux that goes away from armor training like redux goes away from spell training?
>I will note that our inaction isn't necessarily due to us thinking no change is needed. It's just we decided that if we were to proceed with adding some extra Target Defense for monks, we weren't happy with it coming from Iron Skin (1202). Mostly because the TD issue affects the viability of all light armored Squares.
Why not add an always on, passive effect to slippery mind technique that causes it to apply CvA bonus based on the same scale as the avoidance chance when its active. Do this and open it up to warriors and possibly semis and you could eliminate a lot of light armor issues.
So for example, when the stance is active, fully trained in robes you would get 27% avoidance chance AND -27 to CvA when you fail to avoid the spell...this would put the CvA between a hauberk and metal breastplate. If the stance is not active you would still get the -27 CvA but not the avoidance chance.
Why not add an always on, passive effect to slippery mind technique that causes it to apply CvA bonus based on the same scale as the avoidance chance when its active. Do this and open it up to warriors and possibly semis and you could eliminate a lot of light armor issues.
So for example, when the stance is active, fully trained in robes you would get 27% avoidance chance AND -27 to CvA when you fail to avoid the spell...this would put the CvA between a hauberk and metal breastplate. If the stance is not active you would still get the -27 CvA but not the avoidance chance.
<<So for example, when the stance is active, fully trained in robes you would get 27% avoidance chance AND -27 to CvA when you fail to avoid the spell...this would put the CvA between a hauberk and metal breastplate. If the stance is not active you would still get the -27 CvA but not the avoidance chance.>>
I like this idea. A lot.
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
I like this idea. A lot.
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
oh hah, i totally brainfarted on the society powers yeah, my bad. Think I got everything else at least :D
voln: 13
GOS: 20
"other": 15
respective totals per society:
coincidence for the other category? I think not.
I think the CvA change to slippery mind is a good suggestion as well.
| spirit | elemental | mental | ||
| level | 300 | 300 | 300 | |
| base stat | 25 | 25 | 25 | |
| lights | 10 | 5 | 5 | |
| deeps | 15 | 7.5 | 7.5 | |
| shroud | 20 | 10 | 10 | |
| mindward (48+ MnM ranks) | 20 | 20 | 40 | |
| combat focus | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| perfect self | 5 | 5 | 5 | |
| total | 405 | 382.5 | 402.5 |
voln: 13
GOS: 20
"other": 15
respective totals per society:
| society | spir | ele | mental | |
| voln | 418 | 395.5 | 415.5 | |
| GOS | 425 | 402.5 | 422.5 | |
| "other" | 420 | 397.5 | 417.5 |
coincidence for the other category? I think not.
I think the CvA change to slippery mind is a good suggestion as well.
