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~ The girl behind Debia
Contribute to the economy of Debia! You too can make a difference!
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I don't want to say that it'll never happen, but it's extremely unlikely and definitely not in the near future. Guilds require a huge amount of development resources for little gain (e.g. they tend to focus on one profession and even then, only a handful of people in that profession choose to participate in the guild). You can definitely get a system that justifies the investment (alchemy vs. warrior/rogue guild skills), but that requires even more development work to reach that point. Instead, we tend to prefer to focus on enhancements that affect a greater number of players.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
I can't even begin to think of what a Paladin Guild would do. What are people's views on that? What is the primary function of a paladin? Spiritual casting tank. With so many gods to convert to and three societies there is a large range of paladins out there. Would the guild skills take that into consideration?
Off the top of my head I am thinking the creation of artifacts that aid in battle as one possibility. I have to admit this is a challenging prospect.
Chad, player of a few
Off the top of my head I am thinking the creation of artifacts that aid in battle as one possibility. I have to admit this is a challenging prospect.
Chad, player of a few
Having a physical guild would be nice. There could be some holy places inside for Sanctify and other purposes. They could have a shop with some stuff, maybe white flasks. In principle, the amount of development required is not too large. It'd be a place to meet up once in awhile, at least, or get some free snacks.
As far as actual guild skills, I only shudder. I have a sorcerer, and I do not want another guild like that! "Yes, please nerf one of my skills so that I may spend 60+ game hours in order to use it." I'll take a pass on that again.
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
As far as actual guild skills, I only shudder. I have a sorcerer, and I do not want another guild like that! "Yes, please nerf one of my skills so that I may spend 60+ game hours in order to use it." I'll take a pass on that again.
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
| Having a physical guild would be nice. There could be some holy places inside for Sanctify and other purposes. They could have a shop with some stuff, maybe white flasks. In principle, the amount of development required is not too large. It'd be a place to meet up once in awhile, at least, or get some free snacks. |
| As far as actual guild skills, I only shudder. I have a sorcerer, and I do not want another guild like that! "Yes, please nerf one of my skills so that I may spend 60+ game hours in order to use it." I'll take a pass on that again. |
While I disagree that guilds are not appreciated by those that have them, as a ranger I have a building but the 5000 silver a month fee (which you can not pay far out in advance) is really annoying, and if you quit and come back and forget to pay it before your first time logging in it takes an ASSIST to get you back in the guild..
I think guild skills add some ambiance to the game, and a sense of professional unity, that is important. It also provides another means of "Advancement" besides exp, which is important for keeping interest.
The guild system's training regimens as they stand are incredibly broken, IMO. They are for people who are either have OCP or are incurable masochists. I consider alchemy and forging to be in that same category, BTW. I pay good money to play a game and have FUN, not sit at a screen doing nothing but watching my character do stunman tasks (using a self stunning item) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ... etc. until finally after an hour or more she manages to get all her reps in, only to be told she now has to clean windows.
Now, recently she's been getting a lot of creature tasks for her cheap shots training; going out and foot stomping or nose tweaking critter is fun. Why can't ALL guild training tasks fall into that category? I mean, if I hear Deluca make that tired old joke and then tell me to sweep the courtyard for my sweep training one more time, I am gonna ambush his tiresome butt. My guild training is seriously lagging simply because I can't stomach doing it for more than a short while each session. The only reason I even want to be in the Guild at all is for lock
mastery, to deal with plated locks.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Now, recently she's been getting a lot of creature tasks for her cheap shots training; going out and foot stomping or nose tweaking critter is fun. Why can't ALL guild training tasks fall into that category? I mean, if I hear Deluca make that tired old joke and then tell me to sweep the courtyard for my sweep training one more time, I am gonna ambush his tiresome butt. My guild training is seriously lagging simply because I can't stomach doing it for more than a short while each session. The only reason I even want to be in the Guild at all is for lock
mastery, to deal with plated locks.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>> Guilds require a huge amount of development resources for little gain (e.g. they tend to focus on one profession and even then, only a handful of people in that profession choose to participate in the guild). <<
Estild, have you ever considered that if you made Guild training actually fun, more people might undertake it?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Estild, have you ever considered that if you made Guild training actually fun, more people might undertake it?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>>If you have a design in mind that would be fun, we're open to suggestions.<<
Well, for one thing, you could eliminate some of the mind numbingly boring tasks entirely; sweeping dirt (or raking leaves for warriors), washing windows (or polishing armor). I certainly don't mind practicing sweep or cheapshot or subdue on critters. Now THAT can be fun. And how about not having to get additional reps for a rank if you want to trade in a task? Make it like the Adventurer's Guild instead, with a 10 or 15 minute cooldown period after turning down a task, but no loss of experience.
Also, it gets harder and harder to find partners for partner reps as you progress; we don't have 1200 people in game any more, and apparently your partner needs to be within 2 ranks of you for these to work. And since I usually play at odd hours like 1 AM Eastern, it's even worse for me. I haven't been able to get a partner for reps for around 10 days now. Why can't the master footpads be programmed to substitute?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Well, for one thing, you could eliminate some of the mind numbingly boring tasks entirely; sweeping dirt (or raking leaves for warriors), washing windows (or polishing armor). I certainly don't mind practicing sweep or cheapshot or subdue on critters. Now THAT can be fun. And how about not having to get additional reps for a rank if you want to trade in a task? Make it like the Adventurer's Guild instead, with a 10 or 15 minute cooldown period after turning down a task, but no loss of experience.
Also, it gets harder and harder to find partners for partner reps as you progress; we don't have 1200 people in game any more, and apparently your partner needs to be within 2 ranks of you for these to work. And since I usually play at odd hours like 1 AM Eastern, it's even worse for me. I haven't been able to get a partner for reps for around 10 days now. Why can't the master footpads be programmed to substitute?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
| THROGG |
| Well, for one thing, you could eliminate some of the mind numbingly boring tasks entirely; sweeping dirt (or raking leaves for warriors), washing windows (or polishing armor). |
Eliminating a few tasks doesn't make it more fun. That just creates less variety.
| THROGG |
| And how about not having to get additional reps for a rank if you want to trade in a task? Make it like the Adventurer's Guild instead, with a 10 or 15 minute cooldown period after turning down a task, but no loss of experience. |
Having to wait more time before getting a new task doesn't sound like more fun.
| THROGG |
| Also, it gets harder and harder to find partners for partner reps as you progress; we don't have 1200 people in game any more, and apparently your partner needs to be within 2 ranks of you for these to work. And since I usually play at odd hours like 1 AM Eastern, it's even worse for me. I haven't been able to get a partner for reps for around 10 days now. Why can't the master footpads be programmed to substitute? |
I don't see how interacting with a NPC is more fun than interacting with another player. Nor, why this wouldn't just be classified as a "mind numbing boring task" in the long run.
I certainly don't reject any of these ideas as being better options than the status quo; they certainly make things easier for players. But I reject the idea that they make guild skills more fun and thus would encourage more players to utilize them.
GameMaster Estild
If you have a design in mind that would be fun, we're open to suggestions.
GameMaster Estild
Two things straight out the gate...
I don't think this is really the place to be discussing the shortcomings of warrior/rogue/pure guilds, especially when the complaint seems to be randomly posted in a lot of different categories.
If paladins get dev resources then I'd personally prefer existing spells/skills to be looked at over an entire new optional guild system. Minor changes to problem spells would greatly improve the paladin class, vs trying to strike a balance of fun and place that is a guild system.
That being said...
I've found that aligning grinding with existing grinding (hunting) actually increases the fun factor. So tasks that you can pick up and use beside that bounty you picked up while you're also working off that lumnis actually adds to the fun - even if it doubles your hunt times. People get more irritated when something takes them out of the action and away from those people they actually want to socialize with - ie other professions. That's not to say there's not room for both.
Second, the awesome thing about GS is that it's a game that is entirely soloable. I think going with that design philosophy is the best approach while encouraging socializing and teamwork. So doing something solo should be the baseline, and grouping up should provide bigger rewards. A task that takes an hour should be possible solo, but it should only take 30 minutes with a friend and should benefit both involved, not penalize one or both. The biggest problem I've heard about with partner reps is that if you can't find a partner you're nearly dead in the water.
Dgry
GameMaster Estild
Two things straight out the gate...
I don't think this is really the place to be discussing the shortcomings of warrior/rogue/pure guilds, especially when the complaint seems to be randomly posted in a lot of different categories.
If paladins get dev resources then I'd personally prefer existing spells/skills to be looked at over an entire new optional guild system. Minor changes to problem spells would greatly improve the paladin class, vs trying to strike a balance of fun and place that is a guild system.
That being said...
I've found that aligning grinding with existing grinding (hunting) actually increases the fun factor. So tasks that you can pick up and use beside that bounty you picked up while you're also working off that lumnis actually adds to the fun - even if it doubles your hunt times. People get more irritated when something takes them out of the action and away from those people they actually want to socialize with - ie other professions. That's not to say there's not room for both.
Second, the awesome thing about GS is that it's a game that is entirely soloable. I think going with that design philosophy is the best approach while encouraging socializing and teamwork. So doing something solo should be the baseline, and grouping up should provide bigger rewards. A task that takes an hour should be possible solo, but it should only take 30 minutes with a friend and should benefit both involved, not penalize one or both. The biggest problem I've heard about with partner reps is that if you can't find a partner you're nearly dead in the water.
Dgry
>> If paladins get dev resources then I'd personally prefer existing spells/skills to be looked at over an entire new optional guild system. Minor changes to problem spells would greatly improve the paladin class, vs trying to strike a balance of fun and place that is a guild system.
+1 on this thought.
-- Robert
+1 on this thought.
-- Robert
| Second, the awesome thing about GS is that it's a game that is entirely soloable. I think going with that design philosophy is the best approach while encouraging socializing and teamwork. So doing something solo should be the baseline, and grouping up should provide bigger rewards. A task that takes an hour should be possible solo, but it should only take 30 minutes with a friend |
| Dgry |
This I think would increase enjoyment across all guilds, it should be rewarding to practice illusions with a fellow sorcerer or Paladin chrism wave with a fellow Paladin. It should not become absolutely impossible to complete the task without a fellow guild member, just take longer, maybe even three times longer...much like trying to teach yourself to play piano vs having an instructor who knows what he or she is doing.
>> It should not become absolutely impossible to complete the task without a fellow guild member, just take longer, maybe even three times longer.<<
Excellent suggestion; make it so!
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Excellent suggestion; make it so!
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>>I don't see how interacting with a NPC is more fun than interacting with another player. Nor, why this wouldn't just be classified as a "mind numbing boring task" in the long run.<<
I didn't say it was more fun than doing reps with another player; it sure as heck IS more fun than being totally stuck the way I am now.
>>Having to wait more time before getting a new task doesn't sound like more fun.<<
If I had only one guild skill to work on, perhaps it wouldn't be. But I can work on something else while the cooldown period is in effect, WITHOUT losing ground on the skill whose task I traded in. Losing ground is negative fun!
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
I didn't say it was more fun than doing reps with another player; it sure as heck IS more fun than being totally stuck the way I am now.
>>Having to wait more time before getting a new task doesn't sound like more fun.<<
If I had only one guild skill to work on, perhaps it wouldn't be. But I can work on something else while the cooldown period is in effect, WITHOUT losing ground on the skill whose task I traded in. Losing ground is negative fun!
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
| Dgry |
| If paladins get dev resources then I'd personally prefer existing spells/skills to be looked at over an entire new optional guild system. Minor changes to problem spells would greatly improve the paladin class, vs trying to strike a balance of fun and place that is a guild system. |
With 100% confidence, you can count on that happening. I wouldn't expect any major revisions to the guild system for any profession in the near future.
GameMaster Estild
>> I wouldn't expect any major revisions to the guild system for any profession in the near future.<<
>> If paladins get dev resources<<
Here, of course, is the crux of the problem. Dev GMs are few and far between, their time is precious, and probably none of them are interested in doing a large scale revision of an old, archaic and creaky system that has been in place forever. Unfortunate.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>> If paladins get dev resources<<
Here, of course, is the crux of the problem. Dev GMs are few and far between, their time is precious, and probably none of them are interested in doing a large scale revision of an old, archaic and creaky system that has been in place forever. Unfortunate.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
